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Is Curtis Samuel the perfect fit at WR for the Jets?


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10 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Looking at WR's in FA I am sure we all want Allen Robinson. I do. However he is going to cost 20m per season and he's getting closer to 30. 

Then I started thinking about what WR fits our team and who will we go after. The more I look at it the more I am thinking the Jets will key in on Curtis Samuel. I think hes an absolute perfect fit too. 

Nail on the head. I think the Jets will try to get Chris Godwin if he hits the market, but my sense is that Curtis Samuel may be the guy who they target next. I know people want Allen Robinson but I'm not so sure... this scheme relies on speed, YAC players, and tries to avoid redundancy. A-Rob is one of my favorite receivers in the league, but adding him would eat away at Denzel Mims' playing time. They're both primarily "X" receivers; line up on the line of scrimmage, run linear routes and need to have the strength to beat press coverage. 

As you alluded to, Curtis would be in the Deebo "Z" receiver role, lining up off the line of scrimmage and often being motioned. He'd likely alternate with Jamison Crowder in the base lineup, but my guess is he'd play all over the field on an abundance of snaps. He'd see time at the Z, in the slot (Y), and in the backfield, as well as the X. 

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Looking at WR's in FA I am sure we all want Allen Robinson. I do. However he is going to cost 20m per season and he's getting closer to 30.  Then I started thinking about what WR fits our team an

I think people are only looking at the 49er offense and thinking that’s what the Jets will attempt to replicate.  There’s no doubt that the “system” needs a YAC type receiver, and the Jets currently d

We need good players.

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Yeah guys.  Instead of pairing Watson with Chris Godwin/Allen Robinson/Kenny Golladay, lets keep Darnold and roll with Curtis Samuel!  After all, it's not like we have the 2nd most cap space in the league.

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10 hours ago, genot said:

Great post. I was thinking Golladay, until i read a bunch of stuff on Samuel's ability to get quick separation as compared to some of the other wideouts.in FA.

Concerning injury, will be 28 and looking for bar setting contract. No. Plus I think he returns on a prove it deal after last year 

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10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah guys.  Instead of pairing Watson with Chris Godwin/Allen Robinson/Kenny Golladay, lets keep Darnold and roll with Curtis Samuel!  After all, it's not like we have the 2nd most cap space in the league.

What wrong with you? Where’s Jetsfan80? What have you done with him. 

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1 minute ago, Paradis said:

Nobody listens to me anymore, but I’m a sucker for punishment. I agree with you on the overpaying for slot guys (essentially). 

That’s kind of mislabel for Curtis. His MO isn’t a shifty slot guy. He was a RB at Ohio state who was flexed out so much that people liked his skills better at receiver. It’s taken 2+ years for him to develop, but you’re catching him at the right time. He’s got the natural talent of a back in his vision and ability to slide through defenders and contact. I don’t think twitchy or shifty is who CS is... he’s more Steve Smith. 

he’s a better investment that resetting the WR contract bar with Godwin or Robinson (for where we are)

 this offense is at its best creating mismatches off play action. Players like Samuel and a TE are needs. And Jalen Hurd. 

I want Curtis Samuel. I get the appeal. I think I’m in a weird “draft is everything” fog right now where I think every guy I like that might get drafted in the 5th round is a guaranteed stud. 

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1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

I want Curtis Samuel. I get the appeal. I think I’m in a weird “draft is everything” fog right now where I think every guy I like that might get drafted in the 5th round is a guaranteed stud. 

I live in that space 😎

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5 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Nobody listens to me anymore, but I’m a sucker for punishment. I agree with you on the overpaying for slot guys (essentially). 

That’s kind of mislabel for Curtis. His MO isn’t a shifty slot guy. He was a RB at Ohio state who was flexed out so much that people liked his skills better at receiver. It’s taken 2+ years for him to develop, but you’re catching him at the right time. He’s got the natural talent of a back in his vision and ability to slide through defenders and contact. I don’t think twitchy or shifty is who CS is... he’s more Steve Smith. 

he’s a better investment that resetting the WR contract bar with Godwin or Robinson (for where we are)

 this offense is at its best creating mismatches off play action. Players like Samuel and a TE are needs. And Jalen Hurd. 

Jonnu Smith and Curtis Samuel would be good fits for this offense. 

Starting to prefer that situation to the often repeated  “Thuney + A Rob” talking points. 

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14 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Concerning injury, will be 28 and looking for bar setting contract. No. Plus I think he returns on a prove it deal after last year 

I agree. Hip injury that was very slow to heal. Then i read two different articles about FA wr's. Mentioned that Samuel was always much more of an open target, even when Golladay was healthy.

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3 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Jonnu Smith and Curtis Samuel would be good fits for this offense. 

Starting to prefer that situation to the often repeated  “Thuney + A Rob” talking points. 

More sensible than where my head is at... my offseason plan is at trade cap space for draft picks and play all rookies next year. 

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30 minutes ago, Paradis said:

What wrong with you? Where’s Jetsfan80? What have you done with him. 

Not sure what 80 you were thinking of but I've been in favor of bringing in a big-time WR1 all year.

And for the record I do like Curtis Samuel.  As a WR2.  

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not sure what 80 you were thinking of but I've been in favor of bringing in a big-time WR1 all year.

And for the record I do like Curtis Samuel.  As a WR2.  

Sammy Watkins?

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36 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah guys.  Instead of pairing Watson with Chris Godwin/Allen Robinson/Kenny Golladay, lets keep Darnold and roll with Curtis Samuel!  After all, it's not like we have the 2nd most cap space in the league.

Fans always build themselves up to get let down. I don' think it's out of the question we add one of these guys, but A-Rob and Golladay are redundant. Gase's offense interchanged the X and the Z because he never motioned WRs and would use them all over the formation. He was comfortable using 2 "X" types, hence Perriman and Mims. 

LaFleur's offense will be different. He wants guys who win with speed, who will be a threat after the catch, who will give defenses fits pre-snap (motion). That's Chris Godwin, Curtis Samuel. Will Fuller. I don't think that rules out Allen Robinson or Kenny Golladay, but it's not like they won't have other suitors either. All 3 of the guys you mention could get franchise tagged

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1 minute ago, football guy said:

Fans always build themselves up to get let down. I don' think it's out of the question we add one of these guys, but A-Rob and Golladay are redundant. Gase's offense interchanged the X and the Z because he never motioned WRs and would use them all over the formation. He was comfortable using 2 "X" types, hence Perriman and Mims. 

LaFleur's offense will be different. He wants guys who win with speed, who will be a threat after the catch, who will give defenses fits pre-snap (motion). That's Chris Godwin, Curtis Samuel. Will Fuller. I don't think that rules out Allen Robinson or Kenny Golladay, but it's not like they won't have other suitors either. All 3 of the guys you mention could get franchise tagged

 

I could see Godwin or Golladay getting tagged.  Not Robinson.  The Bears have zero flexibility there.  

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1 hour ago, football guy said:

Nail on the head. I think the Jets will try to get Chris Godwin if he hits the market, but my sense is that Curtis Samuel may be the guy who they target next. I know people want Allen Robinson but I'm not so sure... this scheme relies on speed, YAC players, and tries to avoid redundancy. A-Rob is one of my favorite receivers in the league, but adding him would eat away at Denzel Mims' playing time. They're both primarily "X" receivers; line up on the line of scrimmage, run linear routes and need to have the strength to beat press coverage. 

As you alluded to, Curtis would be in the Deebo "Z" receiver role, lining up off the line of scrimmage and often being motioned. He'd likely alternate with Jamison Crowder in the base lineup, but my guess is he'd play all over the field on an abundance of snaps. He'd see time at the Z, in the slot (Y), and in the backfield, as well as the X. 

Am I crazy , I think out of all the free agent Wrs I want Samuel the most ? 

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11 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Looking at WR's in FA I am sure we all want Allen Robinson. I do. However he is going to cost 20m per season and he's getting closer to 30. 

Then I started thinking about what WR fits our team and who will we go after. The more I look at it the more I am thinking the Jets will key in on Curtis Samuel. I think hes an absolute perfect fit too. Here's why:

1. He could be our Deebo Samuel. Watched a ton of SF last year. Its a whole lot of WR screen. It's a whole lot of throws close to the line of scrimmage and needing the WR to get YAC. Theres def alot of WR's running sweeps and all types of runs. Curtis Samuel was used in the running game a-lot and definitely has YAC skills. He looks really good running the ball and would look great with all the manufactured touches that happen in SF. I think he would be OUR version of Deebo Samuel and do quite well in that role. 

2. Hes affordable: Some dont rank him as a top 10 WR in FA. He should be a value signing with upside to out perform his contract. Hes expected to sign for 8-10m per year (Half of the top guys). I think this could be a similar signing to George Fant signing where we went after a guy for future production and paid a nice price for him. 

3. Age: He is only 24. Free agents are usually way to close to 30. Curtis Samuel will sign a 3-4 year deal let's say and be in his Prime for the entire contract. 

4. Deep Threat that could take the top off. - This could arguably be reason number 1. He just compliments what Mim's and Crowder do so well. Curtis Samuel has 4.31 speed. Before last year he was used more-so as a deep threat and could stretch the field for us. Note that Douglas went after a deep threat in FA last year so he could again. 

5. Avoid drafting WR High in Draft - First round WR's bust among the highest out of any position on the field. Rb bust the most. WR is not far behind. They also usually take a long time to develop. Ever hear the 3rd year breakout WR? So even when they don't bust sometimes they develop slowly. Look at last years "BEST CLASS EVER". Ruggs, Juedy, that were taken in the first round had ups and downs. 

Contract wise Crowder is a FA next year and Mim's is on a rookie deal. We will have no money invested there next year and don't have to pay Mims for years. I don't think Sam or someone we draft should have TWO rookie types (Mims missed many games and needs development) to work with. We need to Support the QB this year like other Franchises support their QB by getting him weapons now.

I think Saleh and Lafluer are going to put on Curtis Samuel's tape and see a guy they could put in that Deebo Role. He's young, affordable and his upside is through the roof. This could be a perfect fit. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look I see him as just another WR similar to what we have in Crowder and WR 3 or 4 type guy, so picking him up to see if he can get better than what we have is a great idea. I never liked the idea where we have a lower talented guy and hold on to him when there are other guys some times cheaper that can give same but might have more upside.

But the big deal here is the money. So I don't want to pay a guy at the ceiling....so Robinson is classic example the guys wants to get paid, but the problem is he could go somewhere and mail it in, you don't pay for the guy at the top of his game, you take him the contract before. I much rather pay C Samuel than Robison because of that dynamic. I don't think C Samuel would be that good, but i could see him over crowder or one of our other scrubs - perriman...just in hopes he gives us a great year.

But really we should just draft a guy or two guys..

 

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39 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not sure what 80 you were thinking of but I've been in favor of bringing in a big-time WR1 all year.

And for the record I do like Curtis Samuel.  As a WR2.  

the 80 i know didn't live in fantasyland.  What version of reality do you think JD in his fiscally conservative management style (in order to maintain year to year flexibility at this point in our roster's development) was going to trade away 3-4 first round picks for Watson in addition to signing A-Rob to be the highest paid WR in the league (which is roughly what would need to happen)...

We're a 2-14 team and you think that's the way to go?

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The key in the WCO is versatility and Samuel is a very versatile player.  He can stretch the field and can be a YAC receiver.  He can lineup inside, outside and in the backfield.  Though I don't think lining up in the backfield as a wide receiver should be a requirement. 

They definitely could use a high targeted / high volume wide receiver and Mims could fulfill that role if he continues to develop.  Mims compares favorably to Godwin and could have a similar career progression.  I expect him to line up a little more in the slot next year to create mismatches and further develop his route running. 

Crowder is a solid wide receiver but they do need to start looking for a long term solution.  

Tight ends that can block, run routes from in-line or split out wide keeps them on the field.  Herndon has spent some increased time blocking this past year which should help him gain some relevancy in the new offense.  If not, there are a few mid round guys like Hunter Long and Tre' McKitty that would be good targets.

College football has been producing more and more players that display this type of multitalented skillset.  The upcoming draft has a few prospects that have shown they can be very useful in an offense that utilizes multiskilled players.

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59 minutes ago, Paradis said:

the 80 i know didn't live in fantasyland.  What version of reality do you think JD in his fiscally conservative management style (in order to maintain year to year flexibility at this point in our roster's development) was going to trade away 3-4 first round picks for Watson in addition to signing A-Rob to be the highest paid WR in the league (which is roughly what would need to happen)...

We're a 2-14 team and you think that's the way to go?

There's a time to be fiscally conservative and there's a time to go all in.  The Jets have the 2nd most cap space in a year where the cap is going down.  If the Jets somehow landed Watson, why NOT grab an elite WR to pair with him?  We'd now have the onus to go "all in" and try to win the division in year 1 under Saleh/Watson.  And a WR like Robinson probably wouldn't be nearly as expensive as if Darnold is the QB, as top-end WR's would be much more willing to accept a bit more of a reasonable deal to play with Watson.  If they still refuse to do that, then fine, sign a guy like Samuel.  As long as we fix the QB problem this offseason I'm happy with pretty much whatever talent we decide to add.

This talk about Douglas being fiscally conservative is really overblown.  Fact is, we really have no idea what kind of spender he'll be this offseason.  Last year was all about getting rid of the bad Macc contracts.  This offseason is very different.  They need to give the QB (whoever it is) the tools to succeed and also maybe find an EDGE rusher and CB1.  Sitting on a pile of cash accomplishes.....what, exactly?  Are we trying to tank a 2nd straight year, under a new HC?

I'm not saying Curtis Samuel isn't a good enough FA target or anything.  And if we got Watson, I'd be more than happy with adding Samuel into the mix rather than going after a guy like Robinson.  But keeping Darnold AND grabbing a less than elite WR and calling it a day in the effort to save money?  F**k that sh*t.  We're sitting on a pile of resources in the form of both draft capital and cap space.  Make use of it.

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40 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There's a time to be fiscally conservative and there's a time to go all in. 

Yea that's not now. I don't want to butt heads with you, cause you're my homie - but dude... you're speaking from the heart. not the brain. 

Now is not the time... repeat. not the time. 

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30 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Yea that's not now. I don't want to butt heads with you, cause you're my homie - but dude... you're speaking from the heart. not the brain. 

Now is not the time... repeat. not the time. 

IF the Jets were to get Watson, the time is now to go all-in.  100 %.  The cap money has to be spent eventually, at least a significant portion of it.  Might as well be this offseason, when an unprecedented amount of legitimate FA talent will be hitting the streets.

With Darnold as the QB, no, there's no reason to go all in.  But if Darnold is the QB without any legit competition being brought in, we're f**ked anyways, and I'll want Douglas gone.  That would be inexcusable.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

IF the Jets were to get Watson, the time is now to go all-in

And right there -- you highlighted (to me) why this isn't a fit... the discordance between our roster and that agenda. ... I know i know, there's reasons why teams turn around quickly, why a QB can make a difference, and all that jazz.  I'm just not there. I have a different vision of how i would build this thing, even if if we did trade for Watson - i would tell him straight, this isn't a quick turnaround. You're in it for the long haul. 

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38 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Yea that's not now. I don't want to butt heads with you, cause you're my homie - but dude... you're speaking from the heart. not the brain. 

Now is not the time... repeat. not the time. 

If not now... when? 
Buffalo and Miami turned it around in 1 offseason, why not us?

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3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

And right there -- you highlighted (to me) why this isn't a fit... the discordance between our roster and that agenda. ... I know i know, there's reasons why teams turn around quickly, why a QB can make a difference, and all that jazz.  I'm just not there. I have a different vision of how i would build this thing, even if if we did trade for Watson - i would tell him straight, this isn't a quick turnaround. You're in it for the long haul. 

Our seemingly diametric opposition on the Watson situation makes me sad.

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Yea that's not now. I don't want to butt heads with you, cause you're my homie - but dude... you're speaking from the heart. not the brain. 

Now is not the time... repeat. not the time. 

1 hour ago, Paradis said:
  1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There's a time to be fiscally conservative and there's a time to go all in. 

You guys need to settle this in the Lord of the flies mafia group! Last man standing determines whether we get Watson or not

1 hour ago, Paradis said:
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3 hours ago, Cbucco19 said:

Am I crazy , I think out of all the free agent Wrs I want Samuel the most ? 

I'm a big believer in building a WR group the way PIT has so I wouldn't mind this either. WR is positioned to be a strong group for the next 10+ years. It's the ripple effect of so many athletes being introduced to WR at a young age/HS since so many colleges have adopted 3-4 WR schemes... supply and demand. 

That being said, Godwin is my #1. I love Allen Robinson so I'd want him even if he's not the greatest fit on paper. Whose to say he can't be more of a YAC guy? Samuel would be my 3rd option

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