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Almost 4 quarters in to this Super Bowl and I can't stress this enough, it doesn't matter how many offensive weapons we draft/sign, it won't matter a damn if the QB is running for his life.  Get the w

You want to know what Mahomes would have looked like on the Jets? This is it. Running for his life and creating plays from time to time.

I think there's universal agreement that the OL needs a huge upgrade this off-season. The debate is how to go about it.

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I’m sure Becton will improve. This past year will be his career worst (health permitting, of course). As I just said above: raw prospect; probably could stand to lose some weight and still be an enormous mountain of humanity; could do with some better coaching; could do with not just this past year’s experience but also a real, full summer; could have used a lot of help at LG next to him that he didn’t have.

As much as people like to excuse & grade Darnold on a curve, what’s good for the goose...

No doubt on GB and KC’s backup (and backup level) tackles. 

In his 10 seasons, Ferguson had 5 outstanding seasons and 5 that certainly weren’t outstanding. There’s more to starting than just starting, but he was a rock in terms of suiting up on Sundays. 

His 5 not outstanding seasons were better than the guys sitting out injured.

Hey pick any QB on the earth you want, it is utterly stupid not to build and oline and I mean a GOOD oline not some patch work we have one guy and we can get by oline.

 

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20 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Mahomes definitely struggled due to o-line play, but this doesn't all of a sudden mean that O-line is more important than having a franchise QB.

We still have a bottom 5 QB even with a clean pocket. We need an o-line, but we NEED a QB. 

Without a good OL, having a franchise QB isn't going to mean much. Just look what a bad OL does to arguably the best QB in the league who is surrounded by top skill players. 

This point is moot because Joe Douglas is going to address the OL this offseason, while still drafting a QB. 

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1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

You want to know what Mahomes would have looked like on the Jets? This is it. Running for his life and creating plays from time to time.

To be fair we also would have Quentin Nelson and 3 additional 2nd round picks had we taken Mahomes haha

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32 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The team needs to:

Trade down and

Use at least two of the first three picks on a guard and center.

Heck even if they draft a QB at 2 and trade darnold they should still be using 2 out of the top 3 picks on oline.

Won;t happen but it should.

Here’s the issue I think isn’t being factored in: no GM is going to want to head into the draft with a need to find must-start rookies for the OL. They’re going to sign or retain starters at the other 3 positions. The danger there is a GM who doesn’t stick to his guns to upgrade the line through the draft, and instead sees it as just extended-free-agency (i.e. “Oh, there’s no hole at any OL position right now, so I can forget about it until day 3 if even then,” the way Macc seemed to view things).

Say the team is set for 2021 with Becton and McGovern (whether he plays C or RG). That leaves two iOL and RT in question.

The Jets’ two guards who began the season as starters shouldn’t be handed starting jobs ever again, and I don’t think they will. They may hang onto Van Roten as a stopgap over Lewis just because he makes so much less.

The problem with Fant isn’t that he’s the worst stopgap around; it’s that his contract was structured such that half his salary for the year is guaranteed if he’s not cut over a month before the draft, and he makes wayyy too much to keep as a swing tackle like he was in Seattle. At $9.5MM he’s starting or he should be cut. 

I can’t see how JD would get through March without signing at least one serious lineman (whether a G or C, it’ll most likely be interior line because of the FA crop). Cut Lewis because he makes too much; conversely, Van Roten makes an amount that can be rationalized for a backup (and they may get him to agree to a slight pay cut by $1MM, but it’s not big money if they can’t).

I think they’ll hang onto Fant at least through the draft, seeing how he wasn’t the worst pass blocker in the league, and JD’s not going to want to get boxed into a selection (nor give up on his $9MM/yr tackle so soon). But keeping him into April also means he’d be locking himself into $4.5MM for a guy who ideally should be cut, with another $5MM up in the air thereafter, but at least they’re not painted into a corner for a RT in round 1 that way. 

That just leaves LG or C as a must-draft (whichever they don’t sign in FA). They have enough day 1+2 picks that they can force that issue if they stick at #2; even easier if they do trade down, and can do so without neglecting other position groups.

I think if Fant is the carry-over then it’s not the end of the world: the rookie RT has to beat out a starter (we can’t just hand a starting job to two rookies without competition), and if he doesn’t then Fant at least isn’t Wesley Johnson level bad. Also the likelihood is Fant can probably play LG if need be, should the RT rookie look much better than the LG/C rookie this summer. If you read all this I owe you a coke.

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26 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

His 5 not outstanding seasons were better than the guys sitting out injured.

Hey pick any QB on the earth you want, it is utterly stupid not to build and oline and I mean a GOOD oline not some patch work we have one guy and we can get by oline.

 

No one is saying the team shouldn’t build the OL with good players. Just many/most are saying #2 is vast overkill for the OL when the team doesn’t have a hole at LT (and #2 is too high for any other position on the line). 

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

I think if Fant is the carry-over then it’s not the end of the world: the rookie RT has to beat out a starter (we can’t just hand a starting job to two rookies without competition), and if he doesn’t then Fant at least isn’t Wesley Johnson level bad. Also the likelihood is Fant can probably play LG if need be, should the RT rookie look much better than the LG/C rookie this summer.

Ugh.  Wesley Johnson.  And Spencer Long.  The dark ages.

Used to be Long/Johnson was a good thing.  

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49 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Mahomes definitely struggled due to o-line play, but this doesn't all of a sudden mean that O-line is more important than having a franchise QB.

We still have a bottom 5 QB even with a clean pocket. We need an o-line, but we NEED a QB. 

Mabomes wasn't  struggling, he was totally rattled. Did you see the look on his face in the 4th qrt.. I was telling my girlfriend he looks like he can barely get the play in. 

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Here’s the issue I think isn’t being factored in: no GM is going to want to head into the draft with a need to find must-start rookies for the OL. They’re going to sign or retain starters at the other 3 positions. The danger there is a GM who doesn’t stick to his guns to upgrade the line through the draft, and instead sees it as just extended-free-agency (i.e. “Oh, there’s no hole at any OL position right now, so I can forget about it until day 3 if even then,” the way Macc seemed to view things).

Say the team is set for 2021 with Becton and McGovern (whether he plays C or RG). That leaves two iOL and RT in question.

The Jets’ two guards who began the season as starters shouldn’t be handed starting jobs ever again, and I don’t think they will. They may hang onto Van Roten as a stopgap over Lewis just because he makes so much less.

The problem with Fant isn’t that he’s the worst stopgap around; it’s that his contract was structured such that half his salary for the year is guaranteed if he’s not cut over a month before the draft, and he makes wayyy too much to keep as a swing tackle like he was in Seattle. At $9.5MM he’s starting or he should be cut. 

I can’t see how JD would get through March without signing at least one serious lineman (whether a G or C, it’ll most likely be interior line because of the FA crop). Cut Lewis because he makes too much; conversely, Van Roten makes an amount that can be rationalized for a backup (and they may get him to agree to a slight pay cut by $1MM, but it’s not big money if they can’t).

I think they’ll hang onto Fant at least through the draft, seeing how he wasn’t the worst pass blocker in the league, and JD’s not going to want to get boxed into a selection (nor give up on his $9MM/yr tackle so soon). But keeping him into April also means he’d be locking himself into $4.5MM for a guy who ideally should be cut, with another $5MM up in the air thereafter, but at least they’re not painted into a corner for a RT in round 1 that way. 

That just leaves LG or C as a must-draft (whichever they don’t sign in FA). They have enough day 1+2 picks that they can force that issue if they stick at #2; even easier if they do trade down, and can do so without neglecting other position groups.

I think if Fant is the carry-over then it’s not the end of the world: the rookie RT has to beat out a starter (we can’t just hand a starting job to two rookies without competition), and if he doesn’t then Fant at least isn’t Wesley Johnson level bad. Also the likelihood is Fant can probably play LG if need be, should the RT rookie look much better than the LG/C rookie this summer. If you read all this I owe you a coke.

I actually think Fant is a great fit for this system and probably has trade value if we draft his replacement.  I'd venture a guess he'd get you at least a 4th.

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The Chiefs line was playing without two starters, weren't they? So the post should be more about having good depth on the line. I agree. Grab Watson, another guard or center with our latest first round pick, a receiver with a 3rd and a RB in the 4th. Sign Thuney or Scherf. Boom, all set.  If we get a first for Sam we should have at least one left this year if we sign Watson. I absolutely do not want to draft a lineman with the #2 pick unless we have a left tackle - and that's probably the position we need the least on the entire team. What a waste of a pick that would be when we need a guard/center that can be had later in the first round. 

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5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Here’s the issue I think isn’t being factored in: no GM is going to want to head into the draft with a need to find must-start rookies for the OL. They’re going to sign or retain starters at the other 3 positions. The danger there is a GM who doesn’t stick to his guns to upgrade the line through the draft, and instead sees it as just extended-free-agency (i.e. “Oh, there’s no hole at any OL position right now, so I can forget about it until day 3 if even then,” the way Macc seemed to view things).

Say the team is set for 2021 with Becton and McGovern (whether he plays C or RG). That leaves two iOL and RT in question.

The Jets’ two guards who began the season as starters shouldn’t be handed starting jobs ever again, and I don’t think they will. They may hang onto Van Roten as a stopgap over Lewis just because he makes so much less.

The problem with Fant isn’t that he’s the worst stopgap around; it’s that his contract was structured such that half his salary for the year is guaranteed if he’s not cut over a month before the draft, and he makes wayyy too much to keep as a swing tackle like he was in Seattle. At $9.5MM he’s starting or he should be cut. 

I can’t see how JD would get through March without signing at least one serious lineman (whether a G or C, it’ll most likely be interior line because of the FA crop). Cut Lewis because he makes too much; conversely, Van Roten makes an amount that can be rationalized for a backup (and they may get him to agree to a slight pay cut by $1MM, but it’s not big money if they can’t).

I think they’ll hang onto Fant at least through the draft, seeing how he wasn’t the worst pass blocker in the league, and JD’s not going to want to get boxed into a selection (nor give up on his $9MM/yr tackle so soon). But keeping him into April also means he’d be locking himself into $4.5MM for a guy who ideally should be cut, with another $5MM up in the air thereafter, but at least they’re not painted into a corner for a RT in round 1 that way. 

That just leaves LG or C as a must-draft (whichever they don’t sign in FA). They have enough day 1+2 picks that they can force that issue if they stick at #2; even easier if they do trade down, and can do so without neglecting other position groups.

I think if Fant is the carry-over then it’s not the end of the world: the rookie RT has to beat out a starter (we can’t just hand a starting job to two rookies without competition), and if he doesn’t then Fant at least isn’t Wesley Johnson level bad. Also the likelihood is Fant can probably play LG if need be, should the RT rookie look much better than the LG/C rookie this summer. If you read all this I owe you a coke.

Give me my coke! I assume you meant cocaine... lol. Good post my friend. 

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2 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Weird. People on this board were telling me this o line Douglas assembled was gonna be amazing.

In Joe D's defense...no one foresaw Pats tagging Thuney.  And Covid-19 wreaked havoc as far as Oline having time to jell.

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28 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

This is why trading multiple first round draft picks for Watson is insane. The jets have holes up and down their roster. They need to use those picks to build a solid roster after years of terrible drafting.

No, it isn’t. 

The Jets have plenty of holes on the roster but anyone who thinks this is going to get filled by putting 6+ rookies on the field in 2021 is kidding himself. It’s not happening.

Also you can make all these investments all over, and without a QB you haven’t got squat. Tampa’s big, big improvement from 2019 to 2020 wasn’t their excellent rookie RT. With #1 overall pick Winston they’re 7-9. With Brady (well past his prime, no less) they’re SB champs. 

Watson doesn’t make them champs on his own. But I’d rather take my chances on him than a rookie QB at #2 overall, plus 1-2 other unknown 1st rounders (in theory). One of these guys may very well be the sh**, but I’d pay the tax of another 1st rounder and/or more to guarantee one better than anyone in this class will be, plus removing the potential for swinging and missing and starting the search all over again after 2-3 seasons, and then wait a year or two for that prospect to reach SB level. Over that span you’re going to lose some of these must-have draft picks since we won’t be able to afford to keep them all after their rookie contracts.

You know which QB will be SB champion level? And I don’t mean someone like Dilfer who needs the 2000 Ravens D to carry him, or someone who gets hot for a few games after someone else carried them to the playoffs like Foles.

In truth the team just needs someone good enough; they don’t need someone elite. They haven’t found anyone good enough in memory, though. Watson is too good - and will be so good for so much longer - that it’s not worth passing on him (while the team has probably 3 extra 1st round picks from 2021-2022). 

As of now he’s not available anyway so, while interesting to talk about, it’s ultimately moot until he’s officially on the trade block.

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13 minutes ago, JH Jet Fan said:

I actually think Fant is a great fit for this system and probably has trade value if we draft his replacement.  I'd venture a guess he'd get you at least a 4th.

Cool you read all that lol.

I wouldn’t bet on it unless someone loses their starting RT or LT over the summer. Then his low remaining compensation helps a lot. But a 4th would be his ceiling. I don’t see anyone giving up a 3rd round pick for a guy the Jets would/should probably be cutting if the draft came before his contract guarantee kicked in. 

I’d like to see them upgrade from Fant no matter what system they’re installing. There’s no system around where he’s good value at $9.5MM as a RT. He was a terrible signing, honestly. If they weren’t going to go for the gold with Conklin, then just bring back Beachum for a year or two at 1/10 the cost. On the field I’m not seeing Fant as a visible upgrade from Beachum.

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I was wondering how quickly you doofuses would turn “the most physically talented QB ever looks human behind a bad OL” into “build a good OL and our sh*tass QB will be awesome,” and it actually happened faster than I feared

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13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No, it isn’t. 

The Jets have plenty of holes on the roster but anyone who thinks this is going to get filled by putting 6+ rookies on the field in 2021 is kidding himself. It’s not happening.

Also you can make all these investments all over, and without a QB you haven’t got squat. Tampa’s big, big improvement from 2019 to 2020 wasn’t their excellent rookie RT. With #1 overall pick Winston they’re 7-9. With Brady (well past his prime, no less) they’re SB champs. 

Watson doesn’t make them champs on his own. But I’d rather take my chances on him than a rookie QB at #2 overall, plus 1-2 other unknown 1st rounders (in theory). One of these guys may very well be the sh**, but I’d pay the tax of another 1st rounder and/or more to guarantee one better than anyone in this class will be, plus removing the potential for swinging and missing and starting the search all over again after 2-3 seasons, and then wait a year or two for that prospect to reach SB level. Over that span you’re going to lose some of these must-have draft picks since we won’t be able to afford to keep them all after their rookie contracts.

You know which QB will be SB champion level? And I don’t mean someone like Dilfer who needs the 2000 Ravens D to carry him, or someone who gets hot for a few games after someone else carried them to the playoffs like Foles.

In truth the team just needs someone good enough; they don’t need someone elite. They haven’t found anyone good enough in memory, though. Watson is too good - and will be so good for so much longer - that it’s not worth passing on him (while the team has probably 3 extra 1st round picks from 2021-2022). 

As of now he’s not available anyway so, while interesting to talk about, it’s ultimately moot until he’s officially on the trade block.

Brady brought Brown, fornette and gronk and they were the entire offense tonight. 

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3 minutes ago, Wit said:

Brady brought Brown, fornette and gronk and they were the entire offense tonight. 

None of them are the reason they were even in the game (plus that doesn’t therefore mean Brady couldn’t have won by targeting their other two WRs more).

What won the game was the pass rush and coverage — and yes, the coaching on defense.

They were 7-9 last season, like the Jets.

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5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

None of them are the reason they were even in the game (plus that doesn’t therefore mean Brady couldn’t have won by targeting their other two WRs more).

What won the game was the pass rush and coverage — and yes, the coaching on defense.

They were 7-9 last season, like the Jets.

Yes, the defense won them the game; but their entire offense was brought in this year. Maybe others could have been targeted; but they weren’t. 

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Just now, Wit said:

Yes, the defense won them the game; but their entire offense was brought in this year. Maybe others could have been targeted; but they weren’t. 

They had 4/5 of their OL, RJII, both of their high-end WRs, and a starting TE. And no team ever just carries over 100% from one year to the next no matter who they are, so I don’t see how that’s significant. 

Put another way, there’s no control test whereby Tampa with Brady isn’t in this position if they went with OJ Howard all year long (he wouldn’t be in the same place at the same time to sustain the same injury). Also Fournette had 100 carries this year. It’s a stretch to say they don’t win the SB without him. 

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42 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I was wondering how quickly you doofuses would turn “the most physically talented QB ever looks human behind a bad OL” into “build a good OL and our sh*tass QB will be awesome,” and it actually happened faster than I feared

Never said stick with Sam just wanted to re emphasize that building the Oline is just as important than the quest for the FQB.  In the end, that's just my opinion🤷‍♂️

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56 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I was wondering how quickly you doofuses would turn “the most physically talented QB ever looks human behind a bad OL” into “build a good OL and our sh*tass QB will be awesome,” and it actually happened faster than I feared

^ This guy is right.

What we need to do is to ignore what we just saw and/or draw no conclusions from that game. 

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