Skeet Ulrich Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said: When Sam Darnold flops behind three seasons of the worst offensive line in the sport https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings and https://www.chargers.com/news/justin-herbert-2020-pepsi-nfl-rookie-of-the-year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 I love the Darnold Bros never change 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings and https://www.chargers.com/news/justin-herbert-2020-pepsi-nfl-rookie-of-the-year Fourth worst versus worst. Fella has got a nice set of players there to throw to in Keenan Allen, Mike Williams and Hunter Henry, no? Do you prefer Adam Gase or Anthony Lynn? Do you think Frank Gore was the missing sauce in LA? He might have ran forward for a yard and fell down there just like he did here. But for whatever reason, they chose to play younger players at RB. I’ll never understand their decision making. Which team would you rather have played quarterback for in 2020? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeet Ulrich Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 Just now, RedBeardedSavage said: Fourth worst versus worst. Fella has got a nice set of players there to throw to in Keenan Allen, Mike Williams and Hunter Henry, no? Do you prefer Adam Gase or Anthony Lynn? Do you think Frank Gore was the missing sauce in LA? He might ran forward for a yard there just like he did here. But for whatever reason, they chose to play younger players at RB. I’ll never understand their decision making. Which team would you rather have played quarterback for in 2020? Wait a second, your premise is that Darnold has no chance because of the OL - you stated so in your previous post. When you then see that Herbert played ten times better behind a worse OL than Darnold has, you then move the goalposts to 'weaponz' and 'Adam Gase sucks', the secondary tools in the Defend Darnold playbook. Explain to me how Herbert is playing so well with the worst OL in the NFL? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings and https://www.chargers.com/news/justin-herbert-2020-pepsi-nfl-rookie-of-the-year Power to Justin Herbert. He overcame offensive line definitiencies; most don't. He got away behind a bad OL that miraculously kept him clean on 63.4% of his dropbacks (Sam 57.9), largely due to superior play-calling and a smart game plan that permitted him 2.51 seconds snap-to-throw. Chances are he won't be able to keep it up if the OL doesn't improve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 15 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said: Wait a second, your premise is that Darnold has no chance because of the OL - you stated so in your previous post. When you then see that Herbert played ten times better behind a worse OL than Darnold has, you then move the goalposts to 'weaponz' and 'Adam Gase sucks', the secondary tools in the Defend Darnold playbook. Explain to me how Herbert is playing so well with the worst OL in the NFL? He plays in a scheme that utilized more RPO, a system that called more play-action passing, more pre-snap motion, more effective screens and single-read throws to more talented pass-catchers all designed as a means to neutralize the pass rush. Hence why he took less hits, less sacks, and felt less pressure (per game) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 23 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said: Wait a second, your premise is that Darnold has no chance because of the OL - you stated so in your previous post. When you then see that Herbert played ten times better behind a worse OL than Darnold has, you then move the goalposts to 'weaponz' and 'Adam Gase sucks', the secondary tools in the Defend Darnold playbook. Explain to me how Herbert is playing so well with the worst OL in the NFL? Herbert had other things going for him that Darnold did not like, you know, talent, decision making, accuracy... oh wait no, I can’t say that. Herbert > Darnold. He was also in a better situation - what, so our offensive line was marginally less sh*t than the Chargers? Herbert enjoys far better players to throw to, a guy not named Adam Gase running his offense, and people under the age of 37 to hand the ball off to. Deshaun > Darnold, Mahomes > Darnold But ya know, the simple takeaway from the Super Bowl is that talented quarterbacks often play like sh*t when dealt a sh*tty hand. And I’ll move the goalpost to this: the quarterback in the worst overall situation in the league last year, and three years running, has been ol’ ginger mechanical error from NY. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeet Ulrich Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 minute ago, football guy said: Power to Justin Herbert. He overcame offensive line definitiencies; most don't. He got away behind a bad OL that miraculously kept him clean on 63.4% of his dropbacks (Sam 57.9), largely due to superior play-calling and a smart game plan that permitted him 2.51 seconds snap-to-throw. Chances are he won't be able to keep it up if the OL doesn't improve. He's a better caliber QB prospect(and I didn't think he was going to be, I thought he stunk in Oregon). Full stop. Best case scenario for a Darnold is a Mitchell Trubisky and I'd like to think the Jets should aim higher than that for their highest leverage position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeet Ulrich Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 minute ago, football guy said: He plays in a scheme that utilized more RPO, a system that called more play-action passing, more pre-snap motion, more effective screens and single-read throws to more talented pass-catchers all designed as a means to neutralize the pass rush. Hence why he took less hits, less sacks, and felt less pressure (per game) Basically - Gase sucks. Gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSteve Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Skeet Ulrich said: Yeah, if Mahomes played behind his backup tackles all the time he wouldn't be a MVP. Still better than Darnold. Better arm, makes better decisions. Its amazing how some QB's make better decisions, and gain confidence in their decisions, when they aren't getting chased out of the pocket after 2 seconds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJIII Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 4 hours ago, Skeet Ulrich said: Darnold apologists, just getting it out the way for you guys. It's very possible. Having 2 starting OL not playing hurt for sure. That said Brady did what he needed to do to win the game. Todd Bowles D showed up again tonight. IMO they won the game as they did the previous week. KC got smoked! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said: He's a better caliber QB prospect(and I didn't think he was going to be, I thought he stunk in Oregon). Full stop. Best case scenario for a Darnold is a Mitchell Trubisky and I'd like to think the Jets should aim higher than that for their highest leverage position. Herbert was a great prospect. I think people didn't see the stats and didn't see elite production on the field and assumed that Herbert wasn't any good. That's not always how it works. I strongly disagree with you on Darnold RE: Trubisky. I can understand fans wanting to aim higher, but I can't understand the fans who don't see how much the New York situation had affected his production and their backups for that matter. Joe Flacco was a better fit for the offense and did look better at times, but ultimately was just as bad. And I'm not saying Sam is infallible. It's not to say it was all Gase's fault either. It was a combination of factors. But surely, Sam has been in the worst position any QB I can remember. Can he come back from it? No idea. But if anyone can it's him. He's not Mitch Trubisky; Mitch is a game manager whose limited to executing what the scheme gives him. Sam can do a lot more than that if given the opportunity to, whether it's here or somewhere else 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsons Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 This is how Mahomes would look if the Jets drafted him in 2017! Actually he would have looked Much Much worse... Mahomes has had the luxury of being coached by a Very Good Offensive minded coach who provides him with ample weapons and protection... 1 day out of 4 plus Years Mahomes did not have that Luxury and we all saw the outcome ?... Just imagine if he had played his Entire career in that fashion... There IS NO WAY He would won the MVP Award and there is No Way he would be talked about as he has been... None. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 5 hours ago, Mike135 said: Watson has always played with a bad oline. ... and has made as many Superbowls as Sammy D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 7 hours ago, heymangold said: Let’s see. He’s hurt and has 3 OL starters out. You don’t need OL just ED. Ask the Josh Allen Jags fan club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genot Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 3 hours ago, Skeet Ulrich said: Wait a second, your premise is that Darnold has no chance because of the OL - you stated so in your previous post. When you then see that Herbert played ten times better behind a worse OL than Darnold has, you then move the goalposts to 'weaponz' and 'Adam Gase sucks', the secondary tools in the Defend Darnold playbook. Explain to me how Herbert is playing so well with the worst OL in the NFL? Because of the reasons stated in his post. Play calling, and the quality of a QB's recievers. Have a lot to do with a QB's success. Your saying it doesn't matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Tampa Bay just beat Brees, Rodgers and Mahomes. Sam Darnold doesn’t face teams with defenses as good as Tampa Bays in elimination games. There is simply no way to project KC futility with the Jets or compare Sam to Mahomes. I could just as easily say that Mahomes on the Jets against our 16 game season would have made a difference in the outcome of 8 games. That’s the difference between a 2 win team and a team in the playoff hunt. I believe that. Mahomes and Andy Reid had a bad game yesterday. KCs defense lost their composure. I still came away thinking that Mahomes is on a different planet then Sam Darnold when it comes to being an NFL QB. Tampa Bay is a very good team on both sides of the ball. There’s only one team that went undefeated in the history of the game. It’s a team game. The better team won and Sam Darnold should never be mentioned in the same thread with Mahomes until he actual proves he doesn’t suck. Mahomes is a league MVP and a SB champion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Kind of a redemption for Brady when the patsies lost the perfect season game. In that game the giaints pass rush kept pressure on Brady the whole game and his offense ground to a halt. Same thing last night but it was mahommes who was getting pressure. Reid should’ve known and so should have bienienemy. And spagnualo should’ve know because he was with the giaints. Of course it doesn’t help when the refs favored the home team. Some of the pi calls on kc were plenty tacky. as for the jets, it all starts on the oline. QBs just don’t do very well with people in their face. Also note that both teams had 5 secondary players in their starting line ups. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Jet Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Agree with the premise, but even under constant pressure Mahommes made some unbelievable throws that could’ve been caught (tough catches), some while in the grasp of defenders 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 9 hours ago, Skeet Ulrich said: TBH the game is boring as hell. Chiefs had no shot with their makeshift OL and I think Mahomes' toe is worse than people realize. Are you a mahomes apologist? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitRed Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 When you win the prior game with an injury, have 2 weeks to heal, you don’t get that excuse in the next game 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 8 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said: Clearly the conclusion we need to draw from the Super Bowl we all just watched is that Darnold sucks. Patrick Mahomes, the most promising young player in the sport, had a 52 QB rating, threw no touchdowns and 2 interceptions (easily could’ve thrown 4 or 5). You see, when Mahomes plays poorly and dials up a series of turnaround jumpers that are nearly intercepted, it’s because his offensive line sucks, there was no running game and because Todd Bowles is a genius. When Sam Darnold flops behind three seasons of the worst offensive line in the sport, throwing to Braxton Berrios, handing off to the 37 year old Frank Gore and all-the-while dialing in to those sweet sweet Adam Gase schemes, it’s because he’s trash. I think what we need to do is clear: trade Sam Darnold to one of those offensive guru fools like Kyle Shanahan who thinks Darnold’s struggles were a product of his situation and draft ourselves a BYU or Ohio State quarterback second overall. It's a pretty long stretch to suggest any serious equivalence between: KC's backup tackles against a defense that gets pressure in about 1 to 1.5 seconds on what looks like 80% of PM's dropbacks AND glue like coverage on his targets; vs. the typical protection Darnold got against the Jets' typical defensive opponent. Despite a desire from some to suggest it, Darnold is typically under nowhere near the duress Mahomes was under in the SB on such a high percentage of his dropbacks. If that was the case there wouldn't be scores of footage examples of Darnold's screwups when he's got clean pockets and open receivers. It'd be nothing but "he had no chance all game long" every week of his career, with as much consensus excuse-making as KC's fans are surely saying/thinking about the SB. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 9 hours ago, heymangold said: Let’s see. He’s hurt and has 3 OL starters out. I heard they flew planes and put up billboards in New York for a head coach in a similar predicament. Oh, and without the likes of Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce too. SAR I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 10 hours ago, Philc1 said: No OL and Reid coaching like Gase No OL turns Reid into Gase. SAR I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 8 hours ago, Ghost420 said: This was far worse than a bad oline tonight. The last time I seen such bad play was Jets vs Pats the ghost game. “Gase should use motion and fancy sauce to take the pressure off his injured QB and weak OL. That’s what Reid or any competent head coach would do.” — Jets fans SAR I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost420 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, SAR I said: “Gase should use motion and fancy sauce to take the pressure off his injured QB and weak OL. That’s what Reid or any competent head coach would do.” — Jets fans SAR I Are you a Gase supporter? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Untouchable Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Werblin Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Wait...? Mahomes doesn't sit in the pocket and go through his progressions? He is a first option, free wheeling QB? I thought that doesn't work in the NFL? Quote Bowles said the “biggest thing was to try to take away the first read’’ from Mahomes. “You take away the first read, you know [Mahomes] is going to drift and hold [the ball],’’ he said. “We know that’s a dangerous thing, because he can make so much happen with his feet, but we didn’t want him sitting in the pocket just zinging dimes on us all day. So, the D-line got some pressure on him, making him run and a little bit uncomfortable. I thought that was key for us.’’ https://nypost.com/2021/02/08/todd-bowles-not-brady-is-the-true-super-bowl-2021-mvp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said: It's a pretty long stretch to suggest any serious equivalence between: KC's backup tackles against a defense that gets pressure in about 1 to 1.5 seconds on what looks like 80% of PM's dropbacks AND glue like coverage on his targets; vs. the typical protection Darnold got against the Jets' typical defensive opponent. Despite a desire from some to suggest it, Darnold is typically under nowhere near the duress Mahomes was under in the SB on such a high percentage of his dropbacks. If that was the case there wouldn't be scores of footage examples of Darnold's screwups when he's got clean pockets and open receivers. It's be nothing but "he had no chance all game long" every week of his career, with as much consensus excuse-making as KC's fans are surely saying/thinking about the SB. It's like saying if Sam Darnold was on the Chiefs they would have gone to 3 AFC championship games in a row, 2 SB's in a row and he would have been league MVP at least once. Sam is really the most talented QB in the NFL has incredible vision and feel for the game, a rocket arm that can diagnose the proper arm angle and translate it into perfect throws anywhere on the field if he wasn't a victim of circumstance. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Pat Mahomes having a bad day doesn't make Sam Darnold good. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waka Flocka Flacco Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 til sam darnold sucks because of kansas city's oline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: Pat Mahomes having a bad day doesn't make Sam Darnold good. Is anyone saying that though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 9 hours ago, football guy said: Mahomes sent his toe was 100% didn't he? Didn't see any limping until they were down by 10... Mahomes was walking funny when shown pre-game walking around the stadium. Turf toe or no turf toe TB beat them. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said: Is anyone saying that though? Seriously? The premise of this entire topic is saying that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeet Ulrich Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said: Is anyone saying that though? Are you serious? The implication is that Mahomes having an awful game because he's playing under the same circumstances Darnold played in on a week in/week out basis his time with the Jets(even though that's categorically false). Ergo, if you put Darnold in Mahomes place he'd be a great QB. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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