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Rich Cimini vs Conner Hughes on if the Jets will draft a QB


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4 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I realize that we are living in a time warp in these times and 4 years seems like 40 but both Bowles and Macaggnan were extended. 

was bowles really extended and he still only lasted 4 years? 

jesus. 

5 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

This is like talking to a wall.

I assume you watched the Super Bowl last night

the Jets are not 1 QB or 1 year away from competing with either of those rosters

can we at least agree there? Any new rookie QB (Wilson, Fields) and putting him in front of GVR and George Fant and having him throw to Mims and Herndon is not a recipe for success. we want the team to win but the roster is a complete overhaul and that's not going to happen in 1 year. They need that 2 pick or equivalent trade down to make that QB move later. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, bitonti said:

let's play the what if game

 

what if 23 year old Sam Darnold gets traded to a team who finds great success with Sam Darnold? 

it reflects poorly on JD for giving up too soon on Darnold. 

What if Deshaun Watson costs too much and the team still sucks? 

it reflects poorly on JD for getting fleeced and other free agent/draft moves get scrutinized

what if the Jets draft Zach Wilson and he spends his life on Injured reserve? 

it reflects poorly on JD for overdrafting a mid-major dude who never played anyone real 

what if the Jets draft Justin Fields and he isn't instant good? 

it reflects poorly on JD for planting his flag on a QB who needs time to develop

 

but what if the Jets stick with Sam Darnold for another year and gosh darn it, what do you know, it just didn't work out and maybe James Morgan gets to play or whatever

it reflects poorly on Mac for overdrafting Darnold and gives JD a chance to "monetize" a so called "wasted" 4th round pick, maybe find a vet somewhere who can spot start like Nick Mullins  

Keeping Sam Darnold besides being the cheapest option in absolute terms, buys JD and Saleh a "free year" 

it's house money

eventually they will have to make a big call at QB and yes that's always risky but to do it in year 2 of JD and year 1 of Saleh pushes the timetable forward for when these dudes can be fired for when it all goes badly 

it's easier to blame Gase and Mac guys who are already gone and not make a big move at all 

 

What if the Dolphins land Watson and the Patriots draft Fields/Wilson who turn about to be awesome and the Jets still have the worst QB in the NFL?

Would that be great!?!?!?!?!?!

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If you did a blind beat writer take test anyone could have figured this out.

Cimini is a veteran. He’s already got his “The Jets planned to keep Darnold but just fell in love with *drafted quarterback*...they are the Jets though so let’s hope this doesn’t blow up in their faces” article ready. This isn’t a risky take for him. And ESPN has been all over the Watson thing and the Jets certainly should consider him if he gets traded so that’s a no risk toss in.

Hughes works for The Athletic - their draft guy, Brugler, has been pumping up Zach Wilson at 2 for a while now, the quarterback carousel this offseason is crazy, and Wilson happens to be a scheme fit. He can spend the next two and a half months teaching himself to say “Man I don’t believe how you pass on DANE BRUGLER’S #2 quarterback with the second overall pick!” with a straight face and have had a reasonable take and propped up writing done in his employer’s network.

(For the record I enjoy reading Brugler’s stuff but there’s not one person who writes about the draft for a living whose opinion should factor into any team’s decision making.)

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33 minutes ago, bitonti said:

"Tann-gini" imported Brett Favre - in terms of big moves to make they don't come bigger than that

 

each situation is different  - this 2021 roster, except for like 2 guys, Becton and QW, the talent level is depleted

they aren't one big move away from being a contender they are like a dozen regular moves away from being a basic competitive team. 

and then they can make the big move

this isn't what i want by the way it's a prediction 

if it was up to me and all the other Jets fans the team would be better 

 

 

 

I feel like you go to a casino, only play roulette, play a dollar on red and black every spin and you leave like, aw-shucks, I didnt win but hey, I didnt lose either! 
 

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3 minutes ago, JiF said:

I feel like you go to a casino, only play roulette, play a dollar on red and black every spin and you leave like, aw-shucks, I didnt win but hey, I did lose either! 
 

im the dude that's betting on Green 0 and 00 and the don't pass line 

bet with the house whenever possible 

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14 minutes ago, football guy said:

I have a hard time believing that the Jets FO doesn't already know the answer to this. I guess maybe this year is a little different because they haven't gotten as much face-time with the players. Usually scouts/execs can attend practices, are at live games, and have plenty of data to go off of. In a traditional offseason, the rest is more cross-referencing and character checks, but my guess is Douglas had a grade on Wilson dating back to December. With that, they must already know by now if they think Wilson is head-and-shoulders above Darnold. I think they're spending more time evaluating Darnold then they are Wilson, while giving the coaches a chance to evaluate both. 

I'm not casting any doubt on your connections, but I have to take a lot of issue with your evaluation on how this process works. If your theory was correct, then there would never be any need for pro days, combine or prospect visits because the team just bases its decisions on what was observed during the college season. Not only do I disagree with this, but I think it is even more important this year given how quarantines have likely affected the scouting process. Additionally, we understand that your preference is Wilson, but its pretty obnoxious to write off the possibility that the Jets may consider another QB besides Wilson.

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12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

was bowles really extended and he still only lasted 4 years? 

They extend almost everyone dude. They extended ******* Terry Bradway. The only guys they haven’t extended are Gase and Idzik. If you’re looking for reasons why the Jets will keep Sam Darnold it’s not because people at the top are afraid of losing their jobs, it’s because there is a franchise culture of not moving the hell on when it’s painfully obvious it’s time. The Jets are Stage 5 clingers.

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9 minutes ago, JiF said:

What if the Dolphins land Watson and the Patriots draft Fields/Wilson who turn about to be awesome and the Jets still have the worst QB in the NFL?

Would that be great!?!?!?!?!?!

 

JD might answer, what if James Morgan is better than all of them

 

I still dont understand how the dolphins can already be done with Tua. didn't they just draft that guy? 

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1 minute ago, maury77 said:

I'm not casting any doubt on your connections, but I have to take a lot of issue with your evaluation on how this process works. If your theory was correct, then there would never be any need for pro days, combine or prospect visits because the team just bases its decisions on what was observed during the college season. Not only do I disagree with this, but I think it is even more important this year given how quarantines have likely affected the scouting process. Additionally, we understand that your preference is Wilson, but its pretty obnoxious to write off the possibility that the Jets may consider another QB besides Wilson.

100%.  They have no clue what they're doing right now.  JD seems like the type of guy who dips his toes in everything but rarely jumps in on anything therefore it's very easy to say today, right now, he's sticking with Sam.  Sure...because he's got no F'ing clue what he can actually have instead.  They're not trading Sam without a back up plan and there is no earthly possible way, they're set on Wilson or Fields.   So, "sticking with Sam" is the safe route for everyone, right now.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

(No one really knows what the Jets are going to do at QB because the situation is fluid 

I hate the word "Fluid" but this is right on. 

Douglas clearly has leaked that the Jets have "Taken Calls' on Sam. So the question then becomes do we get a high enough offer to move on from Sam?

To me - The Next step in this whole process is Carson Wentz. If Wentz goes for a First it raises Sam's price in two ways: It establishes another comparable and it is one less QB on the market. I would go so far to say that if Wentz goes for a 1 - So will Sam. That cheap contract this year does make a difference. 

Now that the SB is over the Eagles can announce the Wentz trade in the next day or two. Im guessing its already been agreed to. Once that Domino drops we will know what we will get for Sam as he is the next QB to get traded IMO. I believe rumors start getting heavy in terms of specific teams and specific offers next week for Sam. Washington, Pitt, Carolina and the Colts seem like prime spots so the market is certainly there. 

Carolina interest me. They seem desperate. We have a good relationship with them. They also displayed the desire to dump Teddy B's bad contract in a negative asset type move. We certainly have the cap to absorb that and have Teddy Bridge to Wilson. 

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2 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

They extend almost everyone dude. They extended ******* Terry Bradway. The only guys they haven’t extended are Gase and Idzik. If you’re looking for reasons why the Jets will keep Sam Darnold it’s not because people at the top are afraid of losing their jobs, it’s because there is a franchise culture of not moving the hell on when it’s painfully obvious it’s time. The Jets are Stage 5 clingers.

fine let's add that to the list of reasons then 

this is like when you'd take the math quiz get the answer right and don't know how

I can't show my work but Darnold is most likely QB1 for 2021 - it's not my hope it's a prediction. 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

 

JD might answer, what if James Morgan is better than all of them

 

I still dont understand how the dolphins can already be done with Tua. didn't they just draft that guy? 

Well, if this doesnt summarize your lack of balls any better.  lol

Tua sucks.  James Morgan couldnt even back up Flacco when Darnold was hurt. 

 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

fine let's add that to the list of reasons then 

this is like when you'd take the math quiz get the answer right and don't know how

I can't show my work but Darnold is most likely QB1 for 2021 - it's not my hope it's a prediction. 

Yeah but it’s only because the Jets as an organization are too stupid to do anything otherwise, not for all the conspiracy reasons you listed.

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Just now, JiF said:

Well, if this doesnt summarize your lack of balls any better.  lol

Tua sucks.  James Morgan couldnt even back up Flacco when Darnold was hurt. 

 

the Jets QB room is 23 year old Sam Darnold, 23 year old James Morgan who has never played and everyone thinks a 21 year old QB is the answer 

hey, maybe it will be the answer, 2-3 years from now when they have a line, wide outs, Najee Harris etc. 

 

if there's a lack of balls it's with the Jets. I don't get a draft pick. 

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the Jets QB room is 23 year old Sam Darnold, 23 year old James Morgan who has never played and everyone thinks a 21 year old QB is the answer 

hey, maybe it will be the answer, 2-3 years from now when they have a line, wide outs, Najee Harris etc. 

 

if there's a lack of balls it's with the Jets. I don't get a draft pick. 

Oh, so, never draft a QB because they're young.  Solid plan

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

Oh, so, never draft a QB because they're young.  Solid plan

imagine you are JD. 

if you used a 4th round pick on a QB, wouldn't you want to know if he could play at all? 

I mean you believed in the dude enough to draft him in your first draft ever as a GM. the last coaching staff said he's too raw and buried him. But the last coaching staff didn't know jack squat about coaching.

besides all the other reasons, keeping darnold is also a secret James Morgan play

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

let's play the what if game

 

what if 23 year old Sam Darnold gets traded to a team who finds great success with Sam Darnold? 

it reflects poorly on JD for giving up too soon on Darnold. 

What if Deshaun Watson costs too much and the team still sucks? 

it reflects poorly on JD for getting fleeced and other free agent/draft moves get scrutinized

what if the Jets draft Zach Wilson and he spends his life on Injured reserve? 

it reflects poorly on JD for overdrafting a mid-major dude who never played anyone real 

what if the Jets draft Justin Fields and he isn't instant good? 

it reflects poorly on JD for planting his flag on a QB who needs time to develop

 

but what if the Jets stick with Sam Darnold for another year and gosh darn it, what do you know, it just didn't work out and maybe James Morgan gets to play or whatever

it reflects poorly on Mac for overdrafting Darnold and gives JD a chance to "monetize" a so called "wasted" 4th round pick, maybe find a vet somewhere who can spot start like Nick Mullins  

Keeping Sam Darnold besides being the cheapest option in absolute terms, buys JD and Saleh a "free year" 

it's house money

eventually they will have to make a big call at QB and yes that's always risky but to do it in year 2 of JD and year 1 of Saleh pushes the timetable forward for when these dudes can be fired for when it all goes badly 

it's easier to blame Gase and Mac guys who are already gone and not make a big move at all 

 

This. A thousand times this.

It's all about JD starting the clock on his tenure on his own terms. I don't get what people don't get about this concept.

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6 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Yeah but it’s only because the Jets as an organization are too stupid to do anything otherwise, not for all the conspiracy reasons you listed.

Douglas, Saleh, LaFluer. You know. But they don't. It's fu..in comical. Let's trade Anderson for a mid rd pick. We can find a one trick pony anywhere. Let's trade that fat bust QW. No way we're going to get anybody to give up too much for Adams. He's just a box safety. Get them in the 5th rd. The list goes on and on. Oh. Perriman gives us everything Anderson did.

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14 minutes ago, JiF said:

100%.  They have no clue what they're doing right now.  JD seems like the type of guy who dips his toes in everything but rarely jumps in on anything therefore it's very easy to say today, right now, he's sticking with Sam.  Sure...because he's got no F'ing clue what he can actually have instead.  They're not trading Sam without a back up plan and there is no earthly possible way, they're set on Wilson or Fields.   So, "sticking with Sam" is the safe route for everyone, right now.

Honestly, they are handling it the correct way. If they made a decision on trading Darnold without first getting a really good evaluation on the QBs in the draft, they would be fools. As much as many of us are ready to completely write off Darnold, what if the team determines that Fields, Wilson and Lance are mediocre and they are better off rolling with Darnold? People need to just chill out and be patient.

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22 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I'm not casting any doubt on your connections, but I have to take a lot of issue with your evaluation on how this process works. If your theory was correct, then there would never be any need for pro days, combine or prospect visits because the team just bases its decisions on what was observed during the college season. Not only do I disagree with this, but I think it is even more important this year given how quarantines have likely affected the scouting process. Additionally, we understand that your preference is Wilson, but its pretty obnoxious to write off the possibility that the Jets may consider another QB besides Wilson.

I agree to disagree. I'm not saying that decisions are final, but I think the baseline grade is complete. They have an opinion of him one way or the other, and I think the post-season is about cross-referencing. I'm not claiming this to be fact, just my opinion 

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16 minutes ago, JiF said:

Well, if this doesnt summarize your lack of balls any better.  lol

Tua sucks.  James Morgan couldnt even back up Flacco when Darnold was hurt. 

 

I guess. Gase refused play anyone else other than Frank Gore. And those kids did well when they got the chance.  He’s a stubborn coach , so we really have no idea 

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This really doesn't seem that complicated. Everyone wants JD to think in absolutes - pay whatever it takes to get Watson, dump Sam for whatever you can get and move on, etc.  This dude isn't wired that way.  EVERYTHING he does is measured by relative value.  He has a base case which is his current roster and upcoming draft picks.  If callers for Sam are all offering a bag of dix and if Houston is looking for 3 #1's plus Q and Becton, he's rolling with Sam.  Houston lowers their demands or another team overpays for Sam, he adjusts.  No different than "Jet For Life" Jamal.  He saw Seattle offer more than his value and BOOM...

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1 hour ago, football guy said:

Trust me I bark a lot. There's plenty I've engaged in spats with on here who we now DM and get along. I don't hold grudges unless it's a conspiracy theorist like @oatmeal

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

I’m apparently living rent free in that mind and holding grudges on a New York Jets message board, doxing you’re self... Go deal with those emotional issues 

 

And 🤡 please dislike me, I will sleep fine tonight 🙄

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8 hours ago, JiF said:

What if the Dolphins land Watson and the Patriots draft Fields/Wilson who turn about to be awesome and the Jets still have the worst QB in the NFL?

Would that be great!?!?!?!?!?!

We cannot control what other teams do.

To make roster choices based on what others do is folly.

If the Jets love Wilson and or Fields they should take them at 2 no question.

If there is a doubt you do not take them because you can get a guy you do love at 2 or you trade own and get 3 guys you love.

Houston won 4 games with Watson

Tampa and KC both essentially built their teams before bringing in those QBs.

Use you draft resources to build a good team and then find the QB.

 

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

let's play the what if game

 

what if 23 year old Sam Darnold gets traded to a team who finds great success with Sam Darnold? 

it reflects poorly on JD for giving up too soon on Darnold. 

What if Deshaun Watson costs too much and the team still sucks? 

it reflects poorly on JD for getting fleeced and other free agent/draft moves get scrutinized

what if the Jets draft Zach Wilson and he spends his life on Injured reserve? 

it reflects poorly on JD for overdrafting a mid-major dude who never played anyone real 

what if the Jets draft Justin Fields and he isn't instant good? 

it reflects poorly on JD for planting his flag on a QB who needs time to develop

 

but what if the Jets stick with Sam Darnold for another year and gosh darn it, what do you know, it just didn't work out and maybe James Morgan gets to play or whatever

it reflects poorly on Mac for overdrafting Darnold and gives JD a chance to "monetize" a so called "wasted" 4th round pick, maybe find a vet somewhere who can spot start like Nick Mullins  

Keeping Sam Darnold besides being the cheapest option in absolute terms, buys JD and Saleh a "free year" 

it's house money

eventually they will have to make a big call at QB and yes that's always risky but to do it in year 2 of JD and year 1 of Saleh pushes the timetable forward for when these dudes can be fired for when it all goes badly 

it's easier to blame Gase and Mac guys who are already gone and not make a big move at all 

 

I disagree with this. The bottom line here is if they're at #2 overall Joe D is going to be judged on what he doesn't do as much as what he does do. If the jets trade back and get more picks and Darnold is good and the rookies are OK it'll make things easier to swallow - but if Fields and Wilson have a Herbert like rookie season I think most Jets fan and the national media will (IMO rightfully) criticize Joe D for not taking a swing when he was at the plate. You mention Mac - who has been criticized for everything, but maybe nothing as much as passing on Watson and Mahomes in 2017. 

Similarly if the Jets trade back or take even take a QB at 2 and Miami trades for Watson - Darnold + picks or rookie QB + picks will be evaluated against the compensation Miami gave up to get Watson (assuming there is the belief Watson would have agreed to waive his NTC). 

There are three doors the jets realistically have at the moment, four if you think Watson will be traded pre-draft. 

Door 1 - trade back and roll with Sam 

Door 2 - Pick Fields 

Door 3 - Pick Wilson 

Door 4 - Trade for Watson 

Regardless of the door he picks people will look at the entire picture of what he could have done and judge him accordingly. IMO it'll likely take multiple years for the results to yield itself as there may be picks acquired in later years and these rookies will take time to develop. However, at some point if he passes on these QBs he will be judged for it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, JiF said:

100%.  They have no clue what they're doing right now.  JD seems like the type of guy who dips his toes in everything but rarely jumps in on anything therefore it's very easy to say today, right now, he's sticking with Sam.  Sure...because he's got no F'ing clue what he can actually have instead.  They're not trading Sam without a back up plan and there is no earthly possible way, they're set on Wilson or Fields.   So, "sticking with Sam" is the safe route for everyone, right now.

I can't fathom that after a season of total scheduling calamity -- That GMs are staring at their QB big boards as though it's written in cement.  

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1 hour ago, football guy said:

I agree to disagree. I'm not saying that decisions are final, but I think the baseline grade is complete. They have an opinion of him one way or the other, and I think the post-season is about cross-referencing. I'm not claiming this to be fact, just my opinion 

That may be standing practice in a broad sense for GMs, but at the QB position - I can't stomach that. One on ones, white boards, work outs, pro days and combine do more than just reinforce confident nodding. Add in the fact that guys like Trey Lance played 1 game this year, and I really can't believe JD's got his wish list written in stone. 

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