It has to be Asked did Bill Bellichick hold back Tom Brady??????

[freestater]

1 hour ago, WestCoastOffensive said:

The Man in Black could write songs about unheralded jags. Brady? He'd probably step on Brady's shoes one time; just to let him know. 

Sometimes the line walks you. 

 

[nyjunc]

On 2/8/2021 at 4:49 PM, Biggs said:

I guess the one year when the actually had the No. 1 O in the NFL and scored 14 points it was the defenses fault?  

Your use of the term historical collapse by allowing the Rams to score 2 times is interesting.   After the first TD Brady lead the New England O on a 1 minute 25 second drive of 8 yards before punting.  After the Pats punted the Rams went on a 12 play drive that ended in a punt from the NE 49.   Brady and the Pats O then went on a 1:44 second 3 play drive for 5 yards that resulted in a punt.   The Punt was a 30 yarder to the Rams 45.  The Rams than had 3 straight completions for a TD.  The Pats got the ball back on the 30 and Brady drove them right down the field to the 30 to set up a 48 yard game winning kick.  

Brady was so good offensively that the Pats scored 17 points with 26.30 of total possession.  6 points and 9.8 minutes of total possession in the second half.  In another words, Brady left the ball in the hands of the Rams O for most of the game and an eternity in the 2nd half when the D was finally chipped for 2 TD's Between those two TD's Brady did nothing.  

Let me explain football to you.  It's a game of field position, defense, offense and special teams.  They all work together.  There was no collapse by the Pats D.  They held one of the great offenses in NFL History to 14 points despite their O being ineffective and leaving them on the field all game.  

When Brady had the greatest O in the NFL and a historically great O he put up 14 against the Giants and the D kept them in the game.  Of course it was the D's fault the Giants scored 17.

While Brady and the O disappointed that game and that postseason he did leave the field late with a 4 point lead and his vaunted D allowed an offense led by Eli manning to lead a quick TD drive for the win.

Back to that Rams SB.  It was historical in that it was the first time EVER that a defense blew a double digit lead in the 4th quarter of a super bowl.  It has never happened before in 35 previous tries.

While that Rams O was great they weren't as great in conference championship games and SBs.  In those 4 games the O averaged just 19.5 PPG so in line with the 17 NE allowed.  The offense saved them just like they would 2 years later with they blew an 11 point 4th quarter lead in the SB to the great Jake Delhomme.

The difference btw the 2 giants SB losses and the first 2 SBs the D tried to blow was that when they blew the leads vs SL and Car they left Brady enough time needing only a FG.

 

[nyjunc]

On 2/8/2021 at 5:17 PM, Jet Nut said:

They won 3 games the year before BB.  Lost 10 of their last 11 games.  

The following year under BB they doubled their win total.  Not great but doesnt make them a playoff team.

And off course this is relevant somehow.  

You watch the Pats these past 20 years and dont see a well coached team I dont know what to tell you

The Jets were 4-12 in 1989 then nearly doubled their win total year 1 and were a playoff team year 2.  It took BB FOUR years to make the playoffs with the browns.

 

Since we are giving Belichick bouquets for doubling the wins year 1 in Cleveland does he get blame for nearly cutting the wins in half year 1 in NE?  They were 8-8 in 1999 then went 5-11 in 200 with BB.

I'm not saying Belichick is a bad coach but if you don't Brady was the main reason they won I don't what to tell you.  Belichick has EIGHT full seasons without Tom Brady, he has losing records in both cleveland and New England, he had 6 losing seasons with just 1 little wild card appearance.  

Do I think he's a better HC today than when Brady stepped in and saved his HC career? Absolutely but Brady was the main reason they won and there's just no doubt about it.

[GreenFish]

BB the Coach...no. BB the GM...maybe. BB has been a below average GM for some time. Brady bailed him out in that department by taking a reduced salary and helping recruit players to play at lower salaries as well. Over the last few years, the offense around Brady has been subpar. This Tampa team was probably one of the more talented teams he’s ever played on. Brady doesn’t win the Super Bowl this year if he stays in New England.

So he probably held him back some. But I can’t imagine they would have won too many more Super Bowls with a better GM. 

[nyjunc]

On 2/8/2021 at 6:06 PM, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Maybe so, but it sure as sh*t wasn't Loyd Carr that developed Tom.  

Everyone here screams that quarterbacks need to be coached, supported, and developed by good coaching staffs.

Well, Mumbles did that.  He deserves credit for helping Tom reach his potential.

 

If Tom is on the Jets, he probably never even starts a game.  

Obviously it was Belichick with his incredible track record for developing QBs ?. The funny thing is after having Tom for a season in 2000 and watching the horrible play of bledsoe leading them to 5-11 they decided to give Drew a $100 mil contract extension so he was obviously very confident in the way he was "developing" Brady.

[nyjunc]

22 hours ago, y2k8 said:

 

You could argue that Brady didn't really become an elite QB until after the first 3 SBs were won. 

He didn't make First Team All-Pro until he was 30 years old.

Brady is now unquestionably the GOAT but today's perception of the player glosses over the how and why the first 3 championships were won and the several years between Championship #3 and #4 when he was truly elite and didn't win a SB.

He led the league in TD passes his first full season as a QB.  He didn't put up the monster numbers he later would but he was the absolute difference maker from the team that was 5-13 and heading toward disaster to the team that instantly became a SB team the moment he became QB.  

The game was a little different during those first 3 titles and he and his O rescued their D's from historic collapses in those first 2 SBs.  Without Brady they don't even make the playoffs and Belichick might have been on his way out.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

30 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Obviously it was Belichick with his incredible track record for developing QBs ?. The funny thing is after having Tom for a season in 2000 and watching the horrible play of bledsoe leading them to 5-11 they decided to give Drew a $100 mil contract extension so he was obviously very confident in the way he was "developing" Brady.

Yup

Tom is the first player in the history of the game to develop himself.  He must be Jesus.  
Check his DNA for Zeus blood.  

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

The Jets were 4-12 in 1989 then nearly doubled their win total year 1 and were a playoff team year 2.  It took BB FOUR years to make the playoffs with the browns.

 

Since we are giving Belichick bouquets for doubling the wins year 1 in Cleveland does he get blame for nearly cutting the wins in half year 1 in NE?  They were 8-8 in 1999 then went 5-11 in 200 with BB.

I'm not saying Belichick is a bad coach but if you don't Brady was the main reason they won I don't what to tell you.  Belichick has EIGHT full seasons without Tom Brady, he has losing records in both cleveland and New England, he had 6 losing seasons with just 1 little wild card appearance.  

Do I think he's a better HC today than when Brady stepped in and saved his HC career? Absolutely but Brady was the main reason they won and there's just no doubt about it.

No one gave anyone bouquets for doubling the Browns win totals, just gave actual numbers.  Again with the over the top response to my saying the Browns were a 3 win team, who lost 10 of their last 11 games and BB brought them to a 6 win total. That was to just to disprove you claiming BB took over a good Browns team.  

You really feel like dying on your insistence that he’s not a good HC because of the shlt mess that the Browns were, go for it.  History will never side with your thinking that if not for Brady he would be nothing.  

[Savage69]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Again with the over the top response to my saying the Browns were a 3 win team, who lost 10 of their last 11 games. That was to disprove you claiming BB took over a good Browns team.  
Uou really feel like dying on your insistence that he’s not a good HC because of the shlt mess that the Browns were, go for it.  History will never side with your thinking that if not for Brady he would be nothing.  

Of course BB is a excellent HC although his first year after taking over a 8-8 team he went 5-11 and was 0-2 in his 2nd year when Bledsoe went down and as they say the rest is history..

[DonCorleone]

On 2/8/2021 at 12:37 AM, Charlie Brown said:

Look I really really dislike the Pats and yes Tom Brady in the sporting sense.......

And I don't care what happened tonight ...

However, we have to pause and ask:

Did Bellichick actually hold up TB from being an even greater winning QB!!

Did he?

The answer for me is yes.. And it makes me sick!

I think it is scary thing to consider, but I actually believe TB would have been even MORE successful without Bellichick on a good team and that is a really frightening thought!

There is only one person responsible for Brady's success and that's Mo Lewis. Without whom, we might never have known who Brady was.

[Philc1]

On 2/11/2021 at 1:36 PM, jetophile said:

Did Jeter systematically cheat over the course of his professional career? 

Ask a met or Red Sox fan

[Philc1]

On 2/12/2021 at 2:11 PM, nyjunc said:

Obviously it was Belichick with his incredible track record for developing QBs ?. The funny thing is after having Tom for a season in 2000 and watching the horrible play of bledsoe leading them to 5-11 they decided to give Drew a $100 mil contract extension so he was obviously very confident in the way he was "developing" Brady.

If Mo Lewis doesn’t injure Bledsoe Belichick is right now a defensive coordinator somewhere

[Philc1]

21 hours ago, Savage69 said:

Of course BB is a excellent HC although his first year after taking over a 8-8 team he went 5-11 and was 0-2 in his 2nd year when Bledsoe went down and as they say the rest is history..

He was on his way to getting fired again when Brady turned everything around for him 

[jetophile]

15 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Ask a met or Red Sox fan

Runs in the blood up there.

[Philc1]

Just now, jetophile said:

It’s the Boston way

[nyjunc]

On 2/12/2021 at 8:45 AM, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Yup

Tom is the first player in the history of the game to develop himself.  He must be Jesus.  
Check his DNA for Zeus blood.  

Where are the other great QBs he has developed?  Literally every QB he's had had had more success without him than with him(not counting Brady even though he's won SBs every year he's been away from Belichick ?)

[nyjunc]

On 2/12/2021 at 11:53 AM, Jet Nut said:

No one gave anyone bouquets for doubling the Browns win totals, just gave actual numbers.  Again with the over the top response to my saying the Browns were a 3 win team, who lost 10 of their last 11 games and BB brought them to a 6 win total. That was to just to disprove you claiming BB took over a good Browns team.  

You really feel like dying on your insistence that he’s not a good HC because of the shlt mess that the Browns were, go for it.  History will never side with your thinking that if not for Brady he would be nothing.  

Gase almost doubled our wins, that generally happens with btw HCs because really bad teams usually due their HCs and the new energy usually results in a much better first season.

I never said he took over a good browns team.  I never said he's not a good HC, I believe he developed into a good HC thanks to Brady saving his job.  I think he's a much better HC today than before week 3 of 2001 but he's certainly not the greatest HC of all time, the true greats can be competitive with almost any QB (for those that had chances with other QBs).  It's obvious who was most responsible for the incredible Pats run, that doesn't mean it was ALL Brady.  A lot of coaches and players contributed.  Brady was just responsible and Belichick was next most responsible but without Brady there's no dynasty and Belichick is a DC today if he's still in coaching.

[nyjunc]

On 2/13/2021 at 9:26 AM, Philc1 said:

If Mo Lewis doesn’t injure Bledsoe Belichick is right now a defensive coordinator somewhere

It's quite possible though I think within a few weeks as the heat burned hotter and hotter on Belichick that he would have eventually brought Brady in and saved his job.  I think it most likely just delays the beginning of the dynasty.

[Fantasy Island]

On 2/8/2021 at 12:37 AM, Charlie Brown said:

Look I really really dislike the Pats and yes Tom Brady in the sporting sense.......

And I don't care what happened tonight ...

However, we have to pause and ask:

Did Bellichick actually hold up TB from being an even greater winning QB!!

Did he?

The answer for me is yes.. And it makes me sick!

I think it is scary thing to consider, but I actually believe TB would have been even MORE successful without Bellichick on a good team and that is a really frightening thought!

Hold him back? Like edging?