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Tampa Bays dominant defensive line


Rhg1084

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That d line is what carried them through the playoffs dominating against Rodgers and obviously against Mahomes last night. Bowles didn’t even need to cook up any blitzes cause the d line was creating so much havoc up front he was having the secondary just sit back in a zone coverage.

Saleh likes to employ the same system I think where he doesn’t blitz much and relys on his line getting the pressure (opposite of Gregg Williams who was the blitz king). We need a dominant edge force this season to bookend next to Q to make the line really good. There are some free agents out there that I would be surprised if Douglas throws big money at to appease his new coach (Barrett?). Should be interesting to see where we end up!

 

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2 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

SB will run through Mahomes the next decade. Mahomes destroys the blitz. The Key to beating him as you all saw last night: 

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It just wasn’t a good day for the KC offense. Mahomes actually made some ridiculous throws where his receivers dropped the pass. 

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Just absolute monsters smashing/chasing down everything in sight last night, especially Mahomes.   And where did this kid Devin White come from?  Noticed him a bunch of weeks back.  Wow, he's in on every play.   One of those players who gets the game and is always around the ball.

Massive game ball for our former HC, Todd Bowles.  He called a helluva game.  Congrats.

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2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

If you don’t have edge rushers you can’t beat these elite QBs, you just can’t.  For some reason the Jets have been allergic to having quality edge rushers since John Abraham.   It’s actually pretty comical.  

You think Douglas gives out big bucks to one of these free agents?

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KC and GB were missing key Olinemen.  I wouldn't say they "dominated Rodgers"  The Packers put up over 300 yards through the air and 26 points.  Anybody watching that game had to feel the Packers stupidly left points on the field.   This sounds like a typical overcorrection.  Tayler Heinicke threw for 300 against them in the 1st round. 

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Devin White is an animal out there.  Has been since drafted.  Tampa's defense became unstoppable when Vita Vea came back from that injury.  Can't run on them and they deliver excellent pressure.  White is everywhere.   Congrats to Todd Bowles for good coaching with excellent players.

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7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

KC and GB were missing key Olinemen.  I wouldn't say they "dominated Rodgers"  The Packers put up over 300 yards through the air and 26 points.  Anybody watching that game had to feel the Packers stupidly left points on the field.   This sounds like a typical overcorrection.  Tayler Heinicke threw for 300 against them in the 1st round. 

Rodgers took 5 sacks in that game. Thats pretty dominant 

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23 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

If you don’t have edge rushers you can’t beat these elite QBs, you just can’t.  For some reason the Jets have been allergic to having quality edge rushers since John Abraham.   It’s actually pretty comical.  

For most of the last 15 years, what feels like 99% of Jets fans celebrated the hindsight decision of trading Abraham for (the pick that became) Mangold plus the additional $5MM cap room (not insignificant back then) to fit someone else.

The real hindsight truth is that was a bad decision even-up, that was made even worse by the knowledge that they had a more than capable center with 4 more quality years left in him (after 180 consecutive starts, a freak torn triceps didn't make him injury prone). A 28 year-old edge rusher who was a fast, QB-pressuring, sack-getting, fumble-forcing machine. That the team drafted Revis a year later makes it that much harder to take, given the extra coverage sacks that'd have occurred.

Mangold was a great player - and a great Jet who's still a huge team fan - but in comparing great players (proportionally for their positions), the reality is he played a far less crucial position than did Abraham. It's no accident that no NFL GM has entertained the idea of drafting a center in the top half of round 1 (let alone in the top 5-10 overall picks, where the best edge rusher prospects are routinely drafted). They could have drafted him by trading up from their round 2 pick instead of trading away the only all-pro edge rusher the team's had since the mid-1980s.

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6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

For most of the last 15 years, what feels like 99% of Jets fans celebrated the hindsight decision of trading Abraham for (the pick that became) Mangold plus the additional $5MM cap room (not insignificant back then) to fit someone else.

The real hindsight truth is that was a bad decision even-up, that was made even worse by the knowledge that they had a more than capable center with 4 more quality years left in him (after 180 consecutive starts, a freak torn triceps didn't make him injury prone). A 28 year-old edge rusher who was a fast, QB-pressuring, sack-getting, fumble-forcing machine. That the team drafted Revis a year later makes it that much harder to take, given the extra coverage sacks that'd have occurred.

Mangold was a great player - and a great Jet who's still a huge team fan - but in comparing great players (proportionally for their positions), the reality is he played a far less crucial position than did Abraham. It's no accident that no NFL GM has entertained the idea of drafting a center in the top half of round 1 (let alone in the top 5-10 overall picks, where the best edge rusher prospects are routinely drafted). They could have drafted him by trading up from their round 2 pick instead of trading away the only all-pro edge rusher the team's had since the mid-1980s.

Then we couldn't have drafted Kellen Clemens! 

Forget Mawae,  That team also had Jonothan Goodwin who by 2008 was the starting C for the Saints where he won a super bowl.  He went back as starting C for the 49ers in 2012.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Then we couldn't have drafted Kellen Clemens! 

Forget Mawae,  That team also had Jonothan Goodwin who by 2008 was the starting C for the Saints where he won a super bowl.  He went back as starting C for the 49ers in 2012.

Safe to say the team was not so desperate for a center that they had to part with John Abraham.

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13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

For most of the last 15 years, what feels like 99% of Jets fans celebrated the hindsight decision of trading Abraham for (the pick that became) Mangold plus the additional $5MM cap room (not insignificant back then) to fit someone else.

The real hindsight truth is that was a bad decision even-up, that was made even worse by the knowledge that they had a more than capable center with 4 more quality years left in him (after 180 consecutive starts, a freak torn triceps didn't make him injury prone). A 28 year-old edge rusher who was a fast, QB-pressuring, sack-getting, fumble-forcing machine. That the team drafted Revis a year later makes it that much harder to take, given the extra coverage sacks that'd have occurred.

Mangold was a great player - and a great Jet who's still a huge team fan - but in comparing great players (proportionally for their positions), the reality is he played a far less crucial position than did Abraham. It's no accident that no NFL GM has entertained the idea of drafting a center in the top half of round 1 (let alone in the top 5-10 overall picks, where the best edge rusher prospects are routinely drafted). They could have drafted him by trading up from their round 2 pick instead of trading away the only all-pro edge rusher the team's had since the mid-1980s.

That is a fair assessment.  

Now, there was an option that could have helped correct that trade in 2006:  Drafting more edge rushers.

I would REALLY like to see the Jets draft one, like, every year.  No matter our needs.  You cannot have enough guys on a team that can get to the QB.

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Tampa Bay has a very talented D but they also have amazing talent on O.  The pressure Reid was under because the O was putting up TD's forced him to abandon the run and actually played into Tampa Bays Defensive strength.  That was a team win for TB and a team loss for the Chiefs. 

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Just now, CanadaSteve said:

That is a fair assessment.  

Now, there was an option that could have helped correct that trade in 2006:  Drafting more edge rushers.

I would REALLY like to see the Jets draft one, like, every year.  No matter our needs.  You cannot have enough guys on a team that can get to the QB.

I'd certainly rather they draft an edge rusher up top than a second OT ffs. The Jets aren't so desperate for a second tackle, on top of the fact that finding one well outside the top 5 picks isn't so difficult.

Finding a special edge rusher has a bigger impact on a defense than a second tackle upgrade (over what they'd otherwise draft with a mere late 1st or high 2nd rounder) has on the offense. I can see it if the team has no decent tackle on the roster, but that's not the case with the Jets. Likewise such a selection is easier to rationalize if the draft is so weak up top with no QB prospects projected as highly as our pick, so trading down isn't likely to reap as much, but that also isn't the case with the Jets' top pick. 

The Jets have drafted 43DE/34OLB edge rushers pretty much every year for several years now (2018 being an exception, after using 3 of that draft's 1st & 2nd round picks on Darnold). Frequency in drafting them not the problem; they've been following that plan for some time now. The problem is they've sucked. Zuniga, Polite, Donahue, Jenkins, Mauldin -- these are the last 5 the Jets have taken, and 4 of them were day-2 draft picks. Jenkins is the only one who's been worthy of starting, and he's hardly the type who regularly creates havoc in the backfield a la Abraham (or even an Abraham-lite).  

They don't get to (or relentlessly pressure) the QB just because we've used picks on them. They do it if they're worth a damn. 

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'd certainly rather they draft an edge rusher up top than a second OT ffs. The Jets aren't so desperate for a second tackle, on top of the fact that finding one well outside the top 5 picks isn't so difficult.

Finding a special edge rusher has a bigger impact on a defense than a second tackle upgrade (over what they'd otherwise draft with a mere late 1st or high 2nd rounder) has on the offense. I can see it if the team has no decent tackle on the roster, but that's not the case with the Jets. Likewise such a selection is easier to rationalize if the draft is so weak up top with no QB prospects projected as highly as our pick, so trading down isn't likely to reap as much, but that also isn't the case with the Jets' top pick. 

The Jets have drafted 43DE/34OLB edge rushers pretty much every year for several years now (2018 being an exception, after using 3 of that draft's 1st & 2nd round picks on Darnold). Frequency in drafting them not the problem; they've been following that plan for some time now. The problem is they've sucked. Zuniga, Polite, Donahue, Jenkins, Mauldin -- these are the last 5 the Jets have taken, and 4 of them were day-2 draft picks. Jenkins is the only one who's been worthy of starting, and he's hardly the type who regularly creates havoc in the backfield a la Abraham (or even an Abraham-lite).  

They don't get to (or relentlessly pressure) the QB just because we've used picks on them. They do it if they're worth a damn. 

Maybe Jets can target University of Miami DE Greg Rousseau with pick 23 

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the flip side of Tampa Bay's defense was awesome was that Kansas City's offensive line failed them at the worst possible time

the Chiefs pay Eric Fisher and Mitchell Schwartz huge money to prevent what happened last night 

it's not that Shaq Barrett and JPP are unblockable  - it's that they were going against backup tackles and guards on the big stage 

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'd certainly rather they draft an edge rusher up top than a second OT ffs. The Jets aren't so desperate for a second tackle, on top of the fact that finding one well outside the top 5 picks isn't so difficult.

which brings us to Tampa Bay's offensive line. Well constructed, they signed Jensen, they found Marpet at the senior bowl from Division III (cheap interior) and they used a 13 pick on Wirfs and a 34 pick on Donovan Smith and allowed Tom Brady time to do whatever he wanted, all game. They also opened up run attack etc. Alex Cappa didn't play last night (aaron Stinnie got the start) but he's a mauler RG mid round guy too. 

That's the model Sperm. Find 2 stud tackles and cheap mid round/FA interior. Connor McGovern is comparable to Jensen.  George Fant isn't comparable to Wirfs or Smith. He's not solid he's a backup. 

Yes it would be better for team construction if the draft had a Myles Garrett type at 2. You take the first ballot HOF type that's offered. Sewell happens to be that guy, despite what DJ and other internet guys say, he's the best outland trophy winner for the last decade and he did it as a true soph. That works for building an offensive line. 

Becton is one dude it's not enough. again, the KC Chiefs pay Eric Fisher a 1 overall pick and Mitchell Schwartz an all pro RT huge money to prevent what happened last night.

And as far as the Orlando Brown of it all, that's a problem for 6 years from now. The Jets can pay these dudes (gasp), tag them or trade them for a Tunsil like haul. 

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Just now, bitonti said:

the flip side of Tampa Bay's defense was awesome was that Kansas City's offensive line failed them at the worst possible time

the Chiefs pay Eric Fisher and Mitchell Schwartz huge money to prevent what happened last night 

it's not that Shaq Barrett and JPP are unblockable  - it's that they were going against backup tackles and guards on the big stage 

which brings us to Tampa Bay's offensive line. Well constructed, they signed Jensen, they found Marpet at the senior bowl from Division III (cheap interior) and they used a 13 pick on Wirfs and a 34 pick on Donovan Smith and allowed Tom Brady time to do whatever he wanted, all game. They also opened up run attack etc. Alex Cappa didn't play last night (aaron Stinnie got the start) but he's a mauler RG mid round guy too. 

That's the model Sperm. Find 2 stud tackles and cheap mid round/FA interior. Connor McGovern is comparable to Jensen.  George Fant isn't comparable to Wirfs or Smith. He's not solid he's a backup. 

Yes it would be better for team construction if the draft had a Myles Garrett type at 2. You take the first ballot HOF type that's offered. Sewell happens to be that guy, despite what DJ and other internet guys say, he's the best outland trophy winner for the last decade and he did it as a true soph. That works for building an offensive line. 

Becton is one dude it's not enough. And as far as the Orlando Brown of it all, that's a problem for 6 years from now. Disgruntled athletes get the tag. 

What you're leaving out of "the model" is they did NOT burn two picks higher than Wirfs on their OL. 

It's not some insignificant point. Actually it's the very crux of the point. 

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1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

If you don’t have edge rushers you can’t beat these elite QBs, you just can’t.  For some reason the Jets have been allergic to having quality edge rushers since John Abraham.   It’s actually pretty comical.  

You mean like three fingers jpp?  All kidding aside, Tampa did to kc what the giaints did to Brady and the patsies.  The kc oline just didn’t play well and that was because the tackles were back ups.

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7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the flip side of Tampa Bay's defense was awesome was that Kansas City's offensive line failed them at the worst possible time

the Chiefs pay Eric Fisher and Mitchell Schwartz huge money to prevent what happened last night 

it's not that Shaq Barrett and JPP are unblockable  - it's that they were going against backup tackles and guards on the big stage 

which brings us to Tampa Bay's offensive line. Well constructed, they signed Jensen, they found Marpet at the senior bowl from Division III (cheap interior) and they used a 13 pick on Wirfs and a 34 pick on Donovan Smith and allowed Tom Brady time to do whatever he wanted, all game. They also opened up run attack etc. Alex Cappa didn't play last night (aaron Stinnie got the start) but he's a mauler RG mid round guy too. 

That's the model Sperm. Find 2 stud tackles and cheap mid round/FA interior. Connor McGovern is comparable to Jensen.  George Fant isn't comparable to Wirfs or Smith. He's not solid he's a backup. 

Yes it would be better for team construction if the draft had a Myles Garrett type at 2. You take the first ballot HOF type that's offered. Sewell happens to be that guy, despite what DJ and other internet guys say, he's the best outland trophy winner for the last decade and he did it as a true soph. That works for building an offensive line. 

Becton is one dude it's not enough. again, the KC Chiefs pay Eric Fisher a 1 overall pick and Mitchell Schwartz an all pro RT huge money to prevent what happened last night.

And as far as the Orlando Brown of it all, that's a problem for 6 years from now. The Jets can pay these dudes (gasp), tag them or trade them for a Tunsil like haul. 

Isn't that showing us that you don't need to take a guy #2 overall? And that you can wait to the second round?

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44 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

That is a fair assessment.  

Now, there was an option that could have helped correct that trade in 2006:  Drafting more edge rushers.

I would REALLY like to see the Jets draft one, like, every year.  No matter our needs.  You cannot have enough guys on a team that can get to the QB.

I think they do.  Most of them suck.   The year we traded Abraham Dumervil ended up the  best, but he was a 4th.  Super Mario went #1 overall, Tamba Hali went #20.  and Wimbley #13.  I don't think we'd have been satisfied with Ninkovich or Kyle Williams..  Kiwanuka seemed a reach at the time and ended up under 40 career sacks.  That 2006 team had Bryan Thomas, and Hobson and I think they were much more concerned with getting guys they knew would fit the Belichick style 3-4 they were installing to replace the cover-who.  That was why they added Von Oelhoffen and Chatham.  

The past few years they have drafted Zuniga, Polite, Donahue, Jenkins and Mauldin.  I don't really blame them for not trying some of those other years because you can't keep stuffing the roster when you are trying to give sketchy high picks, like Gholston and Coples, a shot.  Most of those years they had a ton of money wrapped up in steady uninspiring Thomas and Pace.  Under Rex the Jets also had some fairly high level DPR guys like Babin and Maybin, which also limits roster space.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What you're leaving out of "the model" is they did NOT burn two picks higher than Wirfs on their OL. 

It's not some insignificant point. Actually it's the very crux of the point. 

Eric Fisher was a 1 pick if that guy plays it's a different game altogether 

Mitchell Schwartz i believe was a 2nd round pick but huge fa acquisition from the Browns, making enormous all pro money 

the KC Chiefs can score more than 31 when healthy and given Mahomes time to operate 

the Bucs couldn't make the playoffs last year with Winston at QB, they didn't use the 2 overall pick on a QB they find Brady, Gronk, AB and draft Wirfs and they win the SB 

find the QB  - draft the Mike Evans and Wirfs types to support him 

drafting the QB at 2 or even 1 that's a fools errand because those teams can't support the Alex Smith type saviors who show up 

even if the Jets had lost every game and had to draft Trevor, it probably wouldn't go well for this franchise. They'd Joe Burrow Trevor Lawrence by week 5

by the way the Bengals went QB at 1 overall last year now they are desperate at 5 for Sewell to fall to pair with Jonah Williams a former 11 pick or whatever he was.

here's a thought: Teams want to invest in premium offensive line players they just don't get the opportunity all that often 

if there is a trade up market at 2 it's for Sewell or Smith/Chase not the QB's. and the Jets can use all those guys 

 

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