Adam Schefter: Jets Seem "Inclined To Move On" From Darnold

[bitonti]

44 minutes ago, rayzor said:

What's crazy is that Wentz, Trubisky, Mariota and RGIII were all Pro Bowlers.  What made them drop off is the question. 

 

The drop off in each case is almost always a story about not having a good enough line. Wentz got hurt as did rg3. Shoot Joe burrow only played half a rookie season and Andrew Luck retired before 30. 

Draft the best player and give whoever is the qb a fighting chance. 

[bitonti]

50 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

There is no "amazing place" to draft a QB.  That's what we know.  There are busts at every pick, because, more often than not, QBs bust.

They lost 14 games last year. This is the highest position this franchise has picked for 25 years. 

It's not a place to casually reach on a qb bust and shrug 

Neither fields nor wilson are blue chips although fields is closer to the mark. 

Sewell had such a dominant 2019 he's almost certainly not going to bust. He's probably a pro bowl player and could be a candidate for the gold jacket. He's Quenton Nelson but at tackle. He's the leader Jamal Adams was supposed to be. To pass on this prospect just because Sam sucks is a huge missed opportunity. Yes Sam sucks but 1 draft pick is not going to solve the teams problems. They are a race car driving in the dirt. They are not 6 or 9 wins better coaches. This is a historically barren roster. I count 5 starters. It's an unfair position to put a 21 year old

A pick like Sewell puts them on the road again. 

[DetroitRed]

Great listen.  A QB evaluator ( a real one) has Wilson over Lawrence and his surprising thoughts on Darnold 

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/play-like-a-jet-new-york-jets/id1236901698#episodeGuid=3b0382ec-74a0-11eb-90aa-679e6ea83111

[rayzor]

16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The drop off in each case is almost always a story about not having a good enough line. Wentz got hurt as did rg3. Shoot Joe burrow only played half a rookie season and Andrew Luck retired before 30. 

Draft the best player and give whoever is the qb a fighting chance. 

It's incredible what Justin Herbert did with the worst Offensive Line in football.  Yes, he had the weapons but their schemes must have somehow offset the play of their line.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Great listen.  A QB evaluator ( a real one) has Wilson over Lawrence and his surprising thoughts on Darnold 

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/play-like-a-jet-new-york-jets/id1236901698#episodeGuid=3b0382ec-74a0-11eb-90aa-679e6ea83111

Better than Lawrence and not close? Stop. Christ.

[bitonti]

58 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Of course.

Anyone can find examples of virtually any scenario to justify their own opinions.  Trubisky's failure or Burrow's success have NOTHING to do with Zach Wilson.

Joe burrows "success" is them making him throw 40 times a game and his knee exploding by week 9. Chase young murdered Joe burrow. 

And now they are desperate for Sewell to pair up with jonah Williams 

But who needs two tackles when you can have a qb on the injured reserve? 

I'm not a fan of qb at 2 but fields at least can take a beating. Because that's the job description 

 

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, rayzor said:

It's incredible what Justin Herbert did with the worst Offensive Line in football.  Yes, he had the weapons but their schemes must have somehow offset the play of their line.

They don't have the worst line. They had pouncey, Trai Turner and Bryan Bulaga going into the season. Sam tevi is young but upgradable and feeney / lamp are fine.

That's the blocks of granite compared to the jets line that has 1 decent player Becton. 

He also had eckler, Allen, Mike Williams, hunter Henry etc. Tons of weapons 

[flgreen]

I  understand that the Jets have not done Darnold any favors, and Gase was horrible as a HC.

But

The idea that if he has a favorable system, and a few WR's will make him an elite QB just isn't fact.  I never got the "Suck for Sam" rhetoric that was going on his last year at USC.  Outside of the Rose Bowl game, he just wasn't that good.  He had the same problems then, with a loaded, powerhouse USC team as he still has with the Jets.  

He had/has poor field vision, inaccurate long ball,  and made bad decisions.  He played in 27 games at USC, he had 36 turn overs.  WOW.   Darnold put 20 balls on the ground, and lost 14 fumbles..  He threw 22 interceptons.   That was on a loaded USC team

He has some positive traits, and he's a nice kid.  He is not a quaility NFL QB.  He is making the same errors he was making 4 years ago on a great team.  Suspect he'll be around the league for 10-12 years as a back up, but IMO he has never shown that he will be an elite NFL QB.  

Time to move on, probably the best thing for Sam too

[rayzor]

20 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They don't have the worst line. They had pouncey, Trai Turner and Bryan Bulaga going into the season. Sam tevi is young but upgradable and feeney / lamp are fine.

That's the blocks of granite compared to the jets line that has 1 decent player Becton. 

He also had eckler, Allen, Mike Williams, hunter Henry etc. Tons of weapons 

Unless PFF is using a different stat line, they have them dead last.

[MykePM]

<Unnecessarily snarky comment removed.  Probably too late, but better late than never.>

[Charlie Brown]

35 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Better than Lawrence and not close? Stop. Christ.

Thank you!

I like Wilson but to downgrade Lawrence when he had the pressure of being the No.1 QB since he was a True Freshman and he won a National Championship is preposterous!!!!

All the while Wilson is getting praised for beating up on on the Magician's Institute of Northwestern Tennessee ......

Come On Guys!

[Joejet]

39 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They lost 14 games last year. This is the highest position this franchise has picked for 25 years. 

It's not a place to casually reach on a qb bust and shrug 

Neither fields nor wilson are blue chips although fields is closer to the mark. 

Sewell had such a dominant 2019 he's almost certainly not going to bust. He's probably a pro bowl player and could be a candidate for the gold jacket. He's Quenton Nelson but at tackle. He's the leader Jamal Adams was supposed to be. To pass on this prospect just because Sam sucks is a huge missed opportunity. Yes Sam sucks but 1 draft pick is not going to solve the teams problems. They are a race car driving in the dirt. They are not 6 or 9 wins better coaches. This is a historically barren roster. I count 5 starters. It's an unfair position to put a 21 year old

A pick like Sewell puts them on the road again. 

I am not a talent evaluator so I certainly can’t argue about weather Sewell is a great tackle, pro bowler in waiting etc; but I do question whether a player who abandons his team and opts out is the leader that Jamal Adams was supposed to be.

[football guy]

45 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Great listen.  A QB evaluator ( a real one) has Wilson over Lawrence and his surprising thoughts on Darnold 

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/play-like-a-jet-new-york-jets/id1236901698#episodeGuid=3b0382ec-74a0-11eb-90aa-679e6ea83111

This is pretty much what most think within the Jets organization. The question they're asking themselves is how does Zach Wilson stack up to Sam. 

[Joejet]

I was all for the Jets drafting Darnold and have been a fan of his since day one and I hope that he can develop into a quality QB. All of that being said, he needs a change of scenery and the Jets need to move on. In my opinion we need to draft whichever qb they deem as the best one and sign CJ Beathard to be the backup/mentor to the rookie. Beathard has the knowledge to run the new offense and can start early in the season if the rookie isn’t ready.

[Lith]

Seems like the most reasonable take.

 

[oatmeal]

New York Jets (@nyjets) Tweeted:
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????

 

This team man...

[football guy]

1 minute ago, Lith said:

Seems like the most reasonable take.

 

What we've been saying all along. I know fans look at that and say "that's stupid because teams will have already filled their QB needs by then", but the Jets aren't letting outside pressure impact their process. I think here's a very real possibility that the team already feels that Darnold + trade down is the best course forward, but they will perform their due diligence, and if they are blown away by say Zach Wilson they'll sacrifice short-term value for long-term stability. 

The other reason why dragging this out is beneficial? Keep teams looking to trade up on their heels.

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, DetroitRed said:

Great listen.  A QB evaluator ( a real one) has Wilson over Lawrence and his surprising thoughts on Darnold 

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/play-like-a-jet-new-york-jets/id1236901698#episodeGuid=3b0382ec-74a0-11eb-90aa-679e6ea83111

The really interesting thing to me is that the  analyst said that Sam Darnold would "light it up" with SF System..... He thinks Darnold could be a winner still!

 

[FidelioJet]

35 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you!

I like Wilson but to downgrade Lawrence when he had the pressure of being the No.1 QB since he was a True Freshman and he won a National Championship is preposterous!!!!

All the while Wilson is getting praised for beating up on on the Magician's Institute of Northwestern Tennessee ......

Come On Guys!

Once again, no-one is pretending Wilson played a high level schedule.  Not once have I heard a single person praise him for his level of competition.

Wilson is being praised for his skill-set.  Wilson is being praised because that skill-set fits very nicely into today's NFL.  

This is the same stupid argument we got over Josh Allen (I liked Allen a lot) I'm not saying Allen is Wilson or they compare in anyway, but just that's it's a poor reason not to like him.  Playing a poor schedule doesn't mean you're not a good talent.

[Charlie Brown]

29 minutes ago, football guy said:

This is pretty much what most think within the Jets organization. The question they're asking themselves is how does Zach Wilson stack up to Sam. 

Despite the current Sam hate  --- I do not see Wilson as being better than Darnold talent wise....

[Charlie Brown]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Once again, no-one is pretending Wilson played a high level schedule.  Not once have I heard a single person praise him for his level of competition.

Wilson is being praised for his skill-set.  Wilson is being praised because that skill-set fits very nicely into today's NFL.  

This is the same stupid argument we got over Josh Allen (I liked Allen a lot) I'm not saying Allen is Wilson or they compare in anyway, but just that's it's a poor reason not to like him.  Playing a poor schedule doesn't mean you're not a good talent.

I agree 100% but it should be included in the analysis...

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

They lost 14 games last year. This is the highest position this franchise has picked for 25 years. 

It's not a place to casually reach on a qb bust and shrug 

Neither fields nor wilson are blue chips although fields is closer to the mark. 

Sewell had such a dominant 2019 he's almost certainly not going to bust. He's probably a pro bowl player and could be a candidate for the gold jacket. He's Quenton Nelson but at tackle. He's the leader Jamal Adams was supposed to be. To pass on this prospect just because Sam sucks is a huge missed opportunity. Yes Sam sucks but 1 draft pick is not going to solve the teams problems. They are a race car driving in the dirt. They are not 6 or 9 wins better coaches. This is a historically barren roster. I count 5 starters. It's an unfair position to put a 21 year old

A pick like Sewell puts them on the road again. 

Move Becton to RT?

[bitonti]

50 minutes ago, rayzor said:

Unless PFF is using a different stat line, they have them dead last.

tbh I grade offensive lines every week 16x week a year for FBG and purposely avoid PFF grades to not bias my own observations 

however

if we are using PFF grades as gospel, Penei Sewell has the highest grade in their history scouting CFB since 2013. Higher than Quenton Nelson (2nd all time), higher than Ryan Ramcyzk (3rd all time), both All Pro's. 

it would be negligent to pass on the best lineman in modern PFF history for a coinflip at QB 

the draft is about taking what she offers not demanding a particular position to fit a particular need 

i wish Penei Sewell was Chase Young or Calvin Johnson instead but that's the crop 

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I agree 100% but it should be included in the analysis...

For sure.  And I actually think his transition will be a bit more difficult for Wilson than someone like Fields that played better teams..  The speed of the game was simply faster for Fields.  The jump in speed to the NFL is massive - Fields would have at least been closer

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Move Becton to RT?

why not? 

he's the jets best player playing LT out of necessity not necessarily the prototypical LT for the 2021 NFL 

let's review the hard facts he missed 2x games this year with a chest cold, he gave up 7 sacks over 14 games and Myles Garrett ate his lunch 

but on the plus side he's the most dominant run blocker since Moses so why not move him to RT where he can be an all pro rather than LT where he will be a servicable pro bowl snub who can be beat by world class edge rushers 

he can make Trent Brown, Mike McGlinchey (cough cough Saleh) or Lane Johnson money and as long as he doesn't try to switch to LT to honor his dead father like Orlando Brown, he should be able to make do with piles of money as his comfort to moving 

meanwhile the Jets go from bottom 5 offensive line to top 10 instantly and it almost doesn't matter who plays guard. Cam Clark and Conor McDermott could play guard between Sewell - McG - Becton and that line becomes the strength of the team 

and yes if 5 years goes by and they can't pay both Sewell and Becton they can trade one for a pile of picks which is a very Jets outcome. The Texans just got 3 overall for Tunsil. 

that's a better problem to have than Oh boy Wilson tore his labrum again 

at 75 mil under the cap having too many good players is not a Jets issue right now 

[football guy]

8 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Despite the current Sam hate  --- I do not see Wilson as being better than Darnold talent wise....

From a pure skill perspective I think many talent evaluators would agree with you. What Zach shows on tape is rare deep ball instincts, which Sam hasn't displayed. I think there's a misconception that Zach has a crazy strong arm, but I don't think that's the case. Athletically speaking I think Sam is more gifted, but Zach clearly wins in the deep ball department. 

[bitonti]

30 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

New York Jets (@nyjets) Tweeted:
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    actual draft decisions.
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????

 

This team man...

just to review the Jets did once trade down twice from 1 avoiding 2 linemen Orlando Pace and Walter Jones

they landed at 8 like in this mock where they took James Farrior

Pace and Jones are in the Hall of Fame. 

Farrior was gone in 4 years and won a ring in Pittsburgh

the rest of the jets draft that year consisted of like 12 bums and Jason Ferguson. 

trading down is like this panacea when you use the mock draft simulator but the reality is the blue chip players go high and those are the difference makers, not a bunch of "starters" or whatever. 

Quality > Quantity 

[Charlie Brown]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

For sure.  And I actually think his transition will be a bit more difficult for Wilson than someone like Fields that played better teams..  The speed of the game was simply faster for Fields.  The jump in speed to the NFL is massive - Fields would have at least been closer

Now you see why I say if we Draft Wilson, he too should sit for one year.  I am just not sure that our fan base is willing to go for that.....

I don't have a problem if the jets go Wilson I want to be clear, I like him a lot!

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Now you see why I say if we Draft Wilson, he too should sit for one year.  I am just not sure that our fan base is willing to go for that.....

I don't have a problem if the jets go Wilson I want to be clear, I like him a lot!

Yes.  I agree.  I think Wilson should absolutely sit for a year - or least for a half a year and then watch how he progresses in practice.  If he looks like he's ready let him play the second half of the schedule or later.

while I think Fields should sit too,  I think Fields legs will allow him to be more effective early while he learns. alla Josh Allen.

[Philc1]

15 minutes ago, bitonti said:

why not? 

he's the jets best player playing LT out of necessity not necessarily the prototypical LT for the 2021 NFL 

let's review the hard facts he missed 2x games this year with a chest cold, he gave up 7 sacks over 14 games and Myles Garrett ate his lunch 

but on the plus side he's the most dominant run blocker since Moses so why not move him to RT where he can be an all pro rather than LT where he will be a servicable pro bowl snub who can be beat by world class edge rushers 

he can make Trent Brown, Mike McGlinchey (cough cough Saleh) or Lane Johnson money and as long as he doesn't try to switch to LT to honor his dead father like Orlando Brown, he should be able to make do with piles of money as his comfort to moving 

meanwhile the Jets go from bottom 5 offensive line to top 10 instantly and it almost doesn't matter who plays guard. Cam Clark and Conor McDermott could play guard between Sewell - McG - Becton and that line becomes the strength of the team 

and yes if 5 years goes by and they can't pay both Sewell and Becton they can trade one for a pile of picks which is a very Jets outcome. The Texans just got 3 overall for Tunsil. 

that's a better problem to have than Oh boy Wilson tore his labrum again 

at 75 mil under the cap having too many good players is not a Jets issue right now 

Leave Becton at LT, start Sewell at RT 

 

DOMINATE

[MykePM]

3 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

Great listen.  A QB evaluator ( a real one) has Wilson over Lawrence and his surprising thoughts on Darnold 

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/play-like-a-jet-new-york-jets/id1236901698#episodeGuid=3b0382ec-74a0-11eb-90aa-679e6ea83111

The topic of how Gase's awful coaching may (or may not) have undermined Sam's play over the last two seasons gets discussed a lot, but I like how a specific example is discussed here (at the 15:00 mark).  Tim Jenkins cited numerous cases of the same offensive play (slot post) being called against a defense (cover 3) that's specifically designed to stop it, and Sam not having the ability to audible out of it.  Is it too much of a leap to say that if a QB was set up to fail like that a high percentage of the time, he may show a significant leap in results if that stops happening, or god forbid, if he's actually set up to succeed the majority of the time?

Plus, any publicity that pumps up both Wilson and Darnold is good for the Jets, as these are our two best tradeable commodities and we almost definitely will be trading one of them.

[MykePM]

44 minutes ago, bitonti said:

   37 minutes ago,  TeddEY said: 

Move Becton to RT?

why not? 

he's the jets best player playing LT out of necessity not necessarily the prototypical LT for the 2021 NFL 

let's review the hard facts he missed 2x games this year with a chest cold, he gave up 7 sacks over 14 games and Myles Garrett ate his lunch 

but on the plus side he's the most dominant run blocker since Moses so why not move him to RT where he can be an all pro rather than LT where he will be a servicable pro bowl snub who can be beat by world class edge rushers 

he can make Trent Brown, Mike McGlinchey (cough cough Saleh) or Lane Johnson money and as long as he doesn't try to switch to LT to honor his dead father like Orlando Brown, he should be able to make do with piles of money as his comfort to moving 

meanwhile the Jets go from bottom 5 offensive line to top 10 instantly and it almost doesn't matter who plays guard. Cam Clark and Conor McDermott could play guard between Sewell - McG - Becton and that line becomes the strength of the team 

and yes if 5 years goes by and they can't pay both Sewell and Becton they can trade one for a pile of picks which is a very Jets outcome. The Texans just got 3 overall for Tunsil. 

that's a better problem to have than Oh boy Wilson tore his labrum again 

at 75 mil under the cap having too many good players is not a Jets issue right now 

What you're saying here makes football sense.  Have two great tackles, and move the one whose skill set maps better to the RT position over to RT.  What you don't seem to realize is that these players are not just chess pieces to move around the board; they are human beings who have pride and emotions, and the more important the player, the more relevant their feelings are.  Vince Lombardi or even Bill Parcells might have made the move you're suggesting, but this is a different era in the NFL where players have more leverage than ever  and are using social media and other methods to exert it.

It's easy to say that Becton should just do what's best for the team, but it's clear (and the Orlando Brown Jr. situation provides a concrete example) that, right or wrong, players who play OT view the LT position as the one of higher importance, prestige, and cash value, and will fight to play LT if they feel that they are being "demoted" to RT.  And just ordering Becton to play RT will result in a very foreseeable conflict with a major asset that will be very bad for all involved.

You may not like it, and that's OK, but it's reality in today's NFL and it's a hill that I don't want my team to die on.  To ignore it or rail against it would just lead to ugly situations that devalue your resources and tarnish your brand.  Just ask the Houston Texans.

[Adobolo]

37 minutes ago, MykePM said:

Any publicity that pumps up both Wilson and Darnold is good for the Jets, as these are our two best traceable commodities and we almost definitely will be trading one of them.

Tim jenkins the qb whisper of colorado has no ties to the jets\wilson\darnold so for him to say wilson is better than trevor or Darnold will be a great QB in our new system is for his own benefit not the jets. He has got a lot of attention since he declared Wilson is the best qb in this draft but I've followed Tim long before that and respect his views so to say he is doing it for click bait I'd have to disagree.

[MykePM]

6 minutes ago, Adobolo said:

Tim jenkins the qb whisper of colorado has no ties to the jets\wilson\darnold so for him to say wilson is better than trevor or Darnold will be a great QB in our new system is for his own benefit not the jets. He has got a lot of attention since he declared Wilson is the best qb in this draft but I've followed Tim long before that and respect his views so to say he is doing it for click bait I'd have to disagree.

I wasn't trying to suggest ulterior motives to Jenkins' views.  Sorry if my post came across that way.  I actually learned a lot from that interview, and thought that Jenkins brought up a lot of relevant points.  Given that, if he's high on both Wilson and Sam, I hope he shouts it from the rooftops because the higher the value of those two, the better for us.

[bitonti]

35 minutes ago, MykePM said:

What you're saying here makes football sense.  Have two great tackles, and move the one whose skill set maps better to the RT position over to RT.  What you don't seem to realize is that these players are not just chess pieces to move around the board; they are human beings who have pride and emotions, and the more important the player, the more relevant their feelings are.  Vince Lombardi or even Bill Parcells might have made the move you're suggesting, but this is a different era in the NFL where players have more leverage than ever  and are using social media and other methods to exert it.

It's easy to say that Becton should just do what's best for the team, but it's clear (and the Orlando Brown Jr. situation provides a concrete example) that, right or wrong, players who play OT view the LT position as the one of higher importance, prestige, and cash value, and will fight to play LT if they feel that they are being "demoted" to RT.  And just ordering Becton to play RT will result in a very foreseeable conflict with a major asset that will be very bad for all involved.

You may not like it, and that's OK, but it's reality in today's NFL and it's a hill that I don't want my team to die on.  To ignore it or rail against it would just lead to ugly situations that devalue your resources and tarnish your brand.  Just ask the Houston Texans.

you make an accurate point but we are not sure becton would see it as a downgrade and they could just ask him 

money talks - a man can make 17, 18 mil playing RT. There was a point where Trent Brown was the highest paid lineman in football (he played LT for NEP and RT for Oakland/LasVegas) and Becton probably comps most to Trent Brown type. Like Brown, we don't know how long his body will last long term and the money can soothe many ills near term. 

the Jets by the way have not given out a large extension to a Rd 1 guy since Mo Wilkerson they could show Becton the money, big time, and build a program. If Becton is mad because he's not making more money well that's a bridge we can cross at that point.  

it's possible neither Becton nor Orlando Brown are worth David Bakthari money 22 mil at the moment. Becton did not make the Pro Bowl despite leading the fan vote by a large margin which means coaches and players (the other 2/3 of the vote) did not agree with the fans. Players can force their way out of situations but that hurts their overall value. 

The Titans drafted Taylor Lewan and Jack Conklin both with essentially top 10 picks and even tho Conklin is gone and Lewan was hurt for the playoffs, that's the identity of that football team. I'm talking about building a program, even if it means both guys are not here 5 years from now. The identity is, we are going to run at soft nickel defense and play action deep off of that, and try and stop it. The guys buy into it even tho Conklin is gone. But Isaiah Wilson is such a dire bust they probably should have tried to keep him, etc. 

in terms of team chemistry Becton is an often quiet weirdo who leads by example, Sewell is a grab someone by the face mask and make him play better type of leader. to pass on Sewell because of Becton (and take a QB) would be the Jets passing on Quenton Nelson again, but at tackle. The Colts didn't say oh jeez we already have Anthony Castonzo so let's go budget on all the other spots