QB Classmen: Justin Fields (Rotoworld)

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

Yup. Someone is just going to have to be a little bit patient with Fields. But it will come. The Ryan Day offense is not overly simplistic, and Fields has shown the ability to assimilate that offense. There should be confidence that he can learn any offense. A moment will not be too big for him. He has proven that. 

While clearly Kirby Smart didnt trust him for some reason, I think it's also good to know he's already learned 2 very different systems.  Sure, he didnt get much run at Georgia but he was there for 2 years and he picked up Day's offense super fast and went off the second he got his chance.  That and the big game heroics, with all the incredible intangibles the kid has; class act, leader, Ivy league brain, all world athlete.  Just dont know what more you could ask for except for 4 years of starting experience. 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

While clearly Kirby Smart didnt trust him for some reason, I think it's also good to know he's already learned 2 very different systems.  Sure, he didnt get much run at Georgia but he was there for 2 years and he picked up Day's offense super fast and went off the second he got his chance.  That and the big game heroics, with all the incredible intangibles the kid has; class act, leader, Ivy league brain, all world athlete.  Just dont know what more you could ask for except for 4 years of starting experience. 

He is exceptionally mature and I do not believe that Ny would be too big for him. And that is a thing. Just a watch of him on QB1 during his HS senior year shows how mature he is .

[Shockwave]

 

Quote

Just perusing scouting reports or the NFL Draft community or wherever, a common criticism of Fields is his malfunction versus pressure. While it’s true Fields opens himself up to more pressure than he should by holding onto the ball too long (as evidenced by his high pressure rate). He’s going to take more sacks in the NFL than you’d like, but he’s got the toughness and arm talent to throw well under pressure.

Soured on Fields.

He's accurate when given the time but so is every NFL QB. The issue as briefly mentioned above is slow processing speed. He was slow against the blitz against college D's - wait until he gets blitzed every play in the NFL. 

This is going to be a HUGE issue in the NFL. Add that to that big Hitch in his motion which adds to his release time and he is going to struggle in the NFL/Perhaps not have that upside we all wish he would. 

I have Trey Lance above of Fields right now. 

 

 

[DeerPark]

12 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

This was a great read.  Thank you.  I've long been a Fields proponent.  If they are picking a QB at 2, I want it to be him.

I'm not a film grinder, but I watch a lot of football and especially Big 10.  This breakdown is they very smart version of what I thought I saw.  Super accurate, offense not based on gimme throws or as "simple" as some say . I keep hearing how great Wilson would be in a "Shannahan" offense.  To me, the QB in this class that is the ideal for for that is Fields, not Wilson.

i'm with you Hawkeye.  Fields is deadly accurate and I think that is being overlooked.  Accuracy in the Shannahan or in any offense is paramount.  I kinda like all the hype Wilson is getting in hopes someone trades up to get him and maybe we still get our choice with either Fields or whomever

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Shockwave said:

 

I have Trey Lance above of Fields right now. 

Gross lol 

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, Shockwave said:

 

Soured on Fields.

He's accurate when given the time but so is every NFL QB. The issue as briefly mentioned above is slow processing speed. He was slow against the blitz against college D's - wait until he gets blitzed every play in the NFL. 

This is going to be a HUGE issue in the NFL. Add that to that big Hitch in his motion which adds to his release time and he is going to struggle in the NFL/Perhaps not have that upside we all wish he would. 

I have Trey Lance above of Fields right now. 

 

 

I am trying to understand this statement, so I assume that because of his mobility, Fields increased his time to throw in blitz situations? Is that a deterrent?

What were Fields' stats when blitzed in total? I am sure not as goo when not blitzed, what were they exactly?

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Shockwave said:

 

Soured on Fields.

He's accurate when given the time but so is every NFL QB. The issue as briefly mentioned above is slow processing speed. He was slow against the blitz against college D's - wait until he gets blitzed every play in the NFL. 

This is going to be a HUGE issue in the NFL. Add that to that big Hitch in his motion which adds to his release time and he is going to struggle in the NFL/Perhaps not have that upside we all wish he would. 

I have Trey Lance above of Fields right now. 

 

 

Yet Trevor Lawrence played like ass at times in his sophomore year and straight up choked in two playoff back back years as he got older, handling pressure poorly, missing on throws and showing a real lack of composure.

fcking crickets. 

Yet we got a mining crew worthy of mission Armageddon with Bruce Willis working on Justin Fields to crack some BS stat that basically applies to any college QB. 

[ljr]

26 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Yet we got a mining crew worthy of mission Armageddon with Bruce Willis working on Justin Fields to crack some BS stat that basically applies to any college QB. 

 

 

don't scare me ... we just got rid of Crazy Eyes !!!!!

 

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, maury77 said:

Where is the post with the videos about the SF offense? I missed it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1

Pretty sure that I am guilty of not reading it.

[Greensleeves]

2 hours ago, Shockwave said:

 

Soured on Fields.

He's accurate when given the time but so is every NFL QB. The issue as briefly mentioned above is slow processing speed. He was slow against the blitz against college D's - wait until he gets blitzed every play in the NFL. 

This is going to be a HUGE issue in the NFL. Add that to that big Hitch in his motion which adds to his release time and he is going to struggle in the NFL/Perhaps not have that upside we all wish he would. 

I have Trey Lance above of Fields right now. 

 

 

The processing speed is the most important aspect of being a QB in the NFL. That's why I think Wilson will be picked ahead of him and be a better pro QB. They are both accurate - Wilson has more arm talent and Fields is more athletic. Give me the faster processing speed any day of the week.

[Scott Dierking]

9 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

The processing speed is the most important aspect of being a QB in the NFL. That's why I think Wilson will be picked ahead of him and be a better pro QB. They are both accurate - Wilson has more arm talent and Fields is more athletic. Give me the faster processing speed any day of the week.

Help me understand this supposed  'stat". The way I read it, and it is what I witnessed with Fields play, is he will wait until the last instance for someone to come open down field. In blitz situations, he often used his legs to buy more time. Not sure how this relates to "processing".

Now, what Fields has been guilty of, when improvising on a busted play, is trying to put the ball in a spot where he has no business going. That needs to be trained out of him. He needs to accept that incompletion is sometimes the best result.

[Greensleeves]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Help me understand this supposed  'stat". The way I read it, and it is what I witnessed with Fields play, is he will wait until the last instance for someone to come open down field. In blitz situations, he often used his legs to buy more time. Not sure how this relates to "processing".

Now, what Fields has been guilty of, when improvising on a busted play, is trying to put the ball in a spot where he has no business going. That needs to be trained out of him. He needs to accept that incompletion is sometimes the best result.

That's what I've noticed about Fields too - he's so athletic so he can extend plays. What I like about Wilson's film is he goes through his progressions quickly and moves safetys with his eyes which helps get the receivers open. I don't see the progressions happening as quickly with Fields. I'm not saying he can't learn to do it, just that Wilson is already doing it. After watching Brady so many years, I want someone that can process info quickly and get the ball out.

[maury77]

1 hour ago, Greensleeves said:

That's what I've noticed about Fields too - he's so athletic so he can extend plays. What I like about Wilson's film is he goes through his progressions quickly and moves safetys with his eyes which helps get the receivers open. I don't see the progressions happening as quickly with Fields. I'm not saying he can't learn to do it, just that Wilson is already doing it. After watching Brady so many years, I want someone that can process info quickly and get the ball out.

Here is the thing about the progression issues. It's largely a product of play calling. If Ohio State is calling a deep option route, you have to give the receiver time to try to get open before you decide to move to another target. Let me give you some video from our current QB:

This is Darnold at USC, where he was making quick reads. He goes through his progressions quickly:

Here he is last year in Gase's offense with long, slow developing routes. Looks like a completely different player.

When you are trying to evaluate how fast a QB goes through his progressions, the play call has to be taken into context as well.

[Grandy]

The guy has accuracy stats off the charts, can throw it 60 yards down field with a rib injury, and is expected to run a 4.4 40 yard dash.

The new narrative of him being overrated and QB #4 is hogwash. Even if he didn't have a great statistical profile with big games against good teams, he would still be highly touted simply due to his physical tools. Just look at Josh Allen and his college profile. The new idea that a guy that has all of those physical tools AND the stats to back it up is overrated and bust material is ridiculous. 

I won't double down yet and say he's my favorite QB at 2 because I'm still debating and need to evaluate more, but no matter what my rankings are I will still be a happy man if he's the pick. 

[maury77]

1 minute ago, Grandy said:

The guy has accuracy stats off the charts, can throw it 60 yards down field with a rib injury, and is expected to run a 4.4 40 yard dash.

The new narrative of him being overrated and QB #4 is hogwash. Even if he didn't have a great statistical profile with big games against good teams, he would still be highly touted simply due to his physical tools. Just look at Josh Allen and his college profile. The new idea that a guy that has all of those physical tools AND the stats to back it up is overrated and bust material is ridiculous. 

I won't double down yet and say he's my favorite QB at 2 because I'm still debating and need to evaluate more, but no matter what my rankings are I will still be a happy man if he's the pick. 

Are you really comparing Josh Allen's physical tools to Zach Wilson's physical tools? @JiF, you were right. I'm done and I'm out.

[Grandy]

4 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Are you really comparing Josh Allen's physical tools to Zach Wilson's physical tools? @JiF, you were right. I'm done and I'm out.

uhhhhhhhh lmao

We're back in Fields country for the time being, Wilson has no bearing here my friend.

[Mogglez]

8 hours ago, section314 said:

Remember that great piece that @Mogglezput our right before Christmas? He was pretty clear, I believe, that if the Jets stick at #2 and go QB, it would be Fields. It was also around that time that JD was on Michael Kay and in response to a question about how important the combine, pro days are to their evaluations he said that pretty much all of the resume' on these guys was already done.

 

8 hours ago, predator_05 said:

In these tumultuous times, when there's little to no distinction between private and public, when PR agencies are running amok on behalf of special interest groups... @Mogglez is the only man I trust. He will be our guiding light, and our most trusted informant. 

 

In in all seriousness, the more I watch of fields, the more I'm convinced that he's the right man for the jets. Least likely to bust, with an upside that is almost locked-in. 

Lol, thank you fellas.  

I’ve been thinking of updating that thread instead of leaving information all over the forum because that’s how a lot of it gets lost.  I have said it a couple of times recently, in multiple threads, but I wouldn’t rule out Zach Wilson entirely.  Especially now that Saleh, a head coach who wants to run the Shanny system with LaFleur as his OC, is in place.  December is many moons in the past now that a Head Coach is in place.  The 49ers are, reportedly, very high on Zach.  I’m sure if we go QB at 2OA, Saleh and LaFleur will obviously have a big influence on the decision, and where they specifically came from bears mentioning.  I also believe that Wilson is going to blow teams away when he gets on the whiteboard and interviews with them.

More importantly, the team still needs to figure out what to do with ole Sammy boy first.  No one believed a first round pick was possible months ago.  Now?  Well, it’s certainly more tangible, especially if Wentz gets moved for a big package.  That all being said, I have heard nothing that indicates the team isn’t still high on the idea of Sam’s potential with a system and coaching staff tailored to take advantage of his talent.  Too many moving parts right now to call anything definitive.  

[chirorob]

16 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Lol, thank you fellas.  

I’ve been thinking of updating that thread instead of leaving information all over the forum because that’s how a lot of it gets lost.  I have said it a couple of times recently, in multiple threads, but I wouldn’t rule out Zach Wilson entirely.  Especially now that Saleh, a head coach who wants to run the Shanny system with LaFleur as his OC, is in place.  December is many moons in the past now that a Head Coach is in place.  The 49ers are, reportedly, very high on Zach.  I’m sure if we go QB at 2OA, Saleh and LaFleur will obviously have a big influence on the decision, and where they specifically came from bears mentioning.  I also believe that Wilson is going to blow teams away when he gets on the whiteboard and interviews with them.

More importantly, the team still needs to figure out what to do with ole Sammy boy first.  No one believed a first round pick was possible months ago.  Now?  Well, it’s certainly more tangible, especially if Wentz gets moved for a big package.  That all being said, I have heard nothing that indicates the team isn’t still high on the idea of Sam’s potential with a system and coaching staff tailored to take advantage of his talent.  Too many moving parts right now to call anything definitive.  

Here's my question.

SF likes Sammy.   Many people think the Jets may get a late first rounder for Sammy.   The 49ers pick #12, which is far from a late first.   Do they trade way back in the 1st, do they trade a package, say a 2 this year and a 3 next year for Sam?  

[Paradis]

5 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

What I like about Wilson's film is he goes through his progressions quickly 

BYU progressions hey...

[Paradis]

4 hours ago, Mogglez said:

 

Lol, thank you fellas.  

I’ve been thinking of updating that thread instead of leaving information all over the forum because that’s how a lot of it gets lost.  I have said it a couple of times recently, in multiple threads, but I wouldn’t rule out Zach Wilson entirely.  Especially now that Saleh, a head coach who wants to run the Shanny system with LaFleur as his OC, is in place.  December is many moons in the past now that a Head Coach is in place.  The 49ers are, reportedly, very high on Zach.  I’m sure if we go QB at 2OA, Saleh and LaFleur will obviously have a big influence on the decision, and where they specifically came from bears mentioning.  I also believe that Wilson is going to blow teams away when he gets on the whiteboard and interviews with them.

More importantly, the team still needs to figure out what to do with ole Sammy boy first.  No one believed a first round pick was possible months ago.  Now?  Well, it’s certainly more tangible, especially if Wentz gets moved for a big package.  That all being said, I have heard nothing that indicates the team isn’t still high on the idea of Sam’s potential with a system and coaching staff tailored to take advantage of his talent.  Too many moving parts right now to call anything definitive.  

I don't care if Wilson has the T-1000 in his head....  Fields is the guy. He's always been the guy. He fcked up Clemson as sign off to College ball.  ....and now we're over thinking it. We're gonna wind up like CHI saying HOW THE FCK DID WE PASS ON WATSON FOR TRUBISKY.... 

(not directed at you, just in general)

[Paradis]

"Trubisky? what a release... so quick. You know that's probably the most important indicator of success. Let's check the release time of Watson and Mahomes...."

-Chicago Bears, 2017.

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

I would so much rather draft fields than trade for Watson. Fields will be the better QB

[Shockwave]

 

11 hours ago, Paradis said:

Yet Trevor Lawrence played like ass at times in his sophomore year and straight up choked in two playoff back back years as he got older, handling pressure poorly, missing on throws and showing a real lack of composure.

fcking crickets. 

Yet we got a mining crew worthy of mission Armageddon with Bruce Willis working on Justin Fields to crack some BS stat that basically applies to any college QB. 

Unfortunately we're not in the position to debate drafting Trevor. Agree with you there. 

Here's an excerpt on Fields vs Wilson for you. Judge it for yourself. These are huge red flags for Fields and the reason he is ranked 3rd. It doesn't mean he won't be a decent QB. It just means his upside is definitely limited until this is fixed.

@Scott Dierking. Here are some more stats for you. 

Quote

DECISION-MAKING/TIMING/ANTICIPATION

Alright, it’s time to stop pushing. These traits all tend to go hand in hand, so I grouped them together. Let’s call them “offensive mastery.” Who does the best job of getting the ball where it needs to go and timing when it needs to go there?

Both signal-callers have been exceptional at protecting the football. Since the start of 2019, Wilson has only 19 turnover-worthy plays on 740 dropbacks, while Fields has 17 turnover-worthy plays on 684 dropbacks. You won’t find much difference in this regard.

The biggest distinction between them lies within their timing and anticipation. While it shows up again and again on their respective tapes, I can’t give you dozens of examples here to prove that point. One stat that sums it up very succinctly is how both deal with blitzes.

With no blitz this season, Wilson’s average time to throw is 2.85 seconds (246 dropbacks) and Fields’ is 3.07 seconds (107 dropbacks). When blitzed, Wilson’s average time to throw predictably drops to 2.74 seconds (119 dropbacks) and Fields' somehow increases to 3.21 seconds (103 dropbacks). That’s an eternity — and it's not exactly what you want to see from a top quarterback prospect.

Fields is afforded a great deal of leeway with the Ohio State offensive line, his mobility and the talented receiving corps, but that’s not going to fly at the next level. The highest average time to throw of any NFL quarterback all season against the blitz is Josh Allen at 2.80 seconds. Fields simply has to speed up.

Advantage: Wilson

POCKET PRESENCE

It’s important to note that Fields and Wilson have played behind elite offensive lines in their career. There’s no Daniel Jones at Duke situation here, as each of Fields and Wilson was throwing out of cavernous pockets more often than not. Wilson has been under pressure 22.2% of the time this season, and Fields has seen pressure on 29.9% of the time.

While both are terrific at maneuvering the pocket when faced with pressure, Fields’ lethargic decision making also translates to him bringing undue pressure onto himself. On 227 dropbacks in six games, Fields himself has been charged with 16 pressures and five sacks. Wilson is no angel with his propensity to hold the ball, either, but he’s been charged with only 10 pressures — including five sacks — on 389 dropbacks.

Even when things were arguably going better for Fields in 2019, this was an issue. He was charged with 11 sacks on 457 dropbacks. Meanwhile, Fields has converted pressure to sacks 24.1% of the time over the past two seasons. That figure is 16.8% for Wilson. Even though that's not a massive gap, the concerning trend is that Fields’ figure in 2020 alone is 28.6% while Wilson’s is 12.3%. Fields stagnating in this regard as Wilson continues to show improvement makes this an easy choice.

Advantage: Wilson

When you see the bolded above you need to be extremely scared. Bc with an all star line and good receivers Fields would be 32nd in the NFL by a country mile. I can't see any unbiased person thinking this is okay. He has a very high chance of busting. 

If we are choosing a QB at 2 it's going to be Wilson. I also think theres a chance Lance jumps above Fields on some boards. People are going to see these as red flags as very high risk for busting and many don't think he has the ceiling Wilson/Lance have. Can he be an average NFL QB? Yes. Can he be a top 5 QB. I don't think so. 

So what are we left with? A guy with the upside of a Baker Mayfield or league average QB with a high risk of busting? Why would he be worth the number 2 overall? This is the reason he dropped on many boards. 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Shockwave said:

"Fields lethargic decision making" 

Quite honestly - that's bullsh*t (quoting rnd article not you) No one knows what he's been asked to do, what he's been coached to do, and what was expected of the play. Wilson for all his cerebral prowess has a hell of time not staring down one side of the field and understanding where the open man is. 

You talk about accuracy and placement and all that -- when you have 45 mins to throw, against these defenses, you can wait for the WR to slide past window 1 to window 2 then even window 3.... It's looks amazing, but it's just a function of having forever to throw.

Wilson is talented, but hardly special

Meanwhile I DGAF what studies said what about Fields. I watched the motherfcker play. He's good at football.

I didn’t care that Keenan Allen ran a 4.5, I didn't care how "electric" people said Tavon Austin was, I didn't care how quick they said Trubisky's release was, I didn't care what Ebron's combine numbers were, I didn't care that Antonio Brown played at Central Michigan instead of Michigan, I didn't care where draft pundits thought Hakeem Butler would go, I didn't care that Todd Gurley had a knee injury going into the draft... etc etc.

And I don't care what some MIT frat house came up with for a non-standardized pseudo-measurable about his "response time"... 

Justin Fields can play QB and he'll be a good one.  And I think he'll be better than Wilson. Don't need to over think it. 

 

[win4ever]

13 hours ago, maury77 said:

Where is the post with the videos about the SF offense? I missed it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That was the post, my main takeaway was the importance of short field accuracy plus having the athleticism to make throws on the run.  It's not as predicated on throwing it down the field, so I'm not sure why Wilson is considered a great fit.  I know there's a video of Wilson saying it'd be a great fit, but I think most QBs will think it's a great fit.  

@Larz I can't seem to post after quoting you, so I'll just write here.  The main theory behind the system is that it runs out of very similar looks.  What they do with the looks and motion is confuse the defense because they'll run wildly different plays, and misdirection.  In terms of the passing game, we'll see a high number of boots, and fairly easy reads as far as the NFL is concerned.  Therefore, it's a very QB friendly system as long as you have accuracy.  It fits a ton of folks, including Mac Jones, because how they adjust it towards the defense.  

As far as I can tell, someone that is fairly mobile adds a completely different element to it, because they add another layer of options.  The hard part is that if you are really mobile, it's rare to be accurate.  

13 hours ago, Larz said:

How does he fit in with lafleurs offense?

ive read that he’s not a great match but Wilson and even darnold are

13 hours ago, JiF said:

Love that all these stats are starting to come out after I got abused during the Tank for Trevor hysteria for simply saying, pump the brakes, this Fields kid is unreal too and just might be the better passer of the Football.  Now all the stats and real analysis are happening.  Not the, he's never lost!!!  True Freshman Nat'y!  #1 recruit, #1 pick. blah blah blah nonesense for Stan that means nothing.  Break it down, what do they do well...Fields, throws the ball better and proof has been laid out, significantly.  

I'm on record, I want Fields at #2.  Which mean, it wont happen.

❤️ Jets

 

I was on the Tank for Trevor train because as a Jets/Michigan fan, I didn't even watch much football this season.  I think I got into Fields more as the season went on and I had nothing else to distract me as far as football is concerned.  

I'd be very surprised if Fields isn't the pick at 2, because right now, I think it's all posture.  Fields/Lance/Jones all will have leaks saying they are going high because executives like to see how people react.  Lets say the Jets have Lawrence/Fields/Wilson/Lance in that order.  It makes more sense for them to leak that Wilson might be the pick because it impacts the trade market.  If Wilson gets past Jets, he might drop further than if Fields gets past the Jets, thus anyone in the 8-12 range may start asking around about moving up.  Now they've partially revealed their hand about who they are targeting, thus you have information on them.  It's not like the Jets would do all this clandestine scouting and keep a tight ship, only to leak who they are picking months ahead.  All of these "executive in the know" leaks serve a purpose.  

If I'm a team like the Bengals, I leak Wilson being a stud, Lance being a monster, anything to get teams to trade up as high as possible, so the guy they want drops.  

12 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Fields has a higher ceiling than Lawrence, but he also has a lower floor. That floor is because of experience and the kid still needs to learn. 

I think Lawrence has a higher ceiling as a passer, his arm strength is better and because of his height, he can clear more passes from being batted down.  I think Fields has a higher ceiling for overall impact because I believe the added dimension of a running QB makes it so much harder for defenses.  If we just look at the SuperBowl, a guy like Mahomes gave people a shot just because he was able to buy time, and I think that's really valuable going forward.  

12 hours ago, neckdemon said:

because this type of data analysis is not exactly exciting. it reminds me of being in a statistics class......boring af. in smaller doses it would be more easily digestable. besides that the lay-out of it is hard to keep track of.  most people are going to glaze over after trying to decipher that first chart and say fu*k it

I don't think a good amount of people pay attention to the draft, until the draft.  Their scouting is the little 1 minute video that pops up after the pick.  It's a simpler life, full of hope, and less disappointment.  

12 hours ago, QB1 said:

But he doesn’t throw side arm check downs 

Nor does he wear a headband. 

12 hours ago, section314 said:

Remember that great piece that @Mogglezput our right before Christmas? He was pretty clear, I believe, that if the Jets stick at #2 and go QB, it would be Fields. It was also around that time that JD was on Michael Kay and in response to a question about how important the combine, pro days are to their evaluations he said that pretty much all of the resume' on these guys was already done.

I think as far as the QB goes, the combine is fairly worthless (as Brady proved).  Darnold didn't throw at the combine, and even the passes thrown are fairly useless.  I remember Allen was a QB that really pushed the passes at the combine, whereas a guy like Rosen was just there to complete it.  The combine is far more useful for other positions where athleticism needs to be confirmed and weed out the Polites of the world.  

I'd be really shocked to see Fields not be the No. 2 pick, be it the Jets or a trade.   

 

12 hours ago, JiF said:

Agreed...but it's not like he's only started a year.  It may have been abbreviated but 2 seasons as the starter at a major program and getting into the playoffs and a Nat'y, that's not experience to shake a stick at.  He's similar in experience to Burrow, just Burrow in that regard but he got a full season in his 2nd year, plus the playoffs, so he's got a handful more under him but at least it's not Trubisky, Haskins situation where you are really basing it off 1 year as a starter.

That said, if you read how I would handle this season, I would bring in a bridge QB, draft Fields and let him sit a year similar to Mahomes.

The sad part is that Fields played well enough to get to back to back national championships.  That Ohio State loss last year felt like one of those cursed team games where things just kept going wrong, and they played conservatively.  He went from one of the stupidest offensive scheme systems in college (honestly, has anyone done less with 5 star recruits than Georgia?) to Ohio State without a break, and absolutely was a stud.  

My original idea was to keep Darnold, after picking up the 5th year option, and use him as the bridge.  Now that I'm hearing first round pick for him, it might be better to go with a lower value one.  I wouldn't want to throw Fields into the fray on day 1, but I'm not sure who my target is.  

12 hours ago, predator_05 said:

In these tumultuous times, when there's little to no distinction between private and public, when PR agencies are running amok on behalf of special interest groups... @Mogglez is the only man I trust. He will be our guiding light, and our most trusted informant. 

 

In in all seriousness, the more I watch of fields, the more I'm convinced that he's the right man for the jets. Least likely to bust, with an upside that is almost locked-in. 

Yeah, I don't believe much that I see from the media now.  It's all leaked with an angle, either from the team or the players.  No team is honestly sending out their scouting reports and conclusions out to the media so far ahead of the draft.  

12 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Yup. Someone is just going to have to be a little bit patient with Fields. But it will come. The Ryan Day offense is not overly simplistic, and Fields has shown the ability to assimilate that offense. There should be confidence that he can learn any offense. A moment will not be too big for him. He has proven that. 

I think the main thing I like about Fields, in the OSU offense, was that he didn't do a quick read and run offense.  This wasn't a one read with dumpoff or scamper offense, and he read plays down the field.  It helps to have a good OL, but it also shows that he looks to pass first and then run.  

He's not perfect by any means but the production plus tools is extremely exciting.  

[Shockwave]

11 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

I am trying to understand this statement, so I assume that because of his mobility, Fields increased his time to throw in blitz situations? Is that a deterrent?

What were Fields' stats when blitzed in total? I am sure not as goo when not blitzed, what were they exactly?

See above this a few post for more stats regarding this. 

Also here's some more breakdown on Fields. 

 

 

[More Cowbell]

This is what I have been saying,  (ok, with a lot less stats but I have been saying take Fields at 2)

If he can reproduce this or get close to it in the NFL, there is no reason to send a Kings ransom to the Texan for Watson. Just draft this guy. 

[win4ever]

16 hours ago, JiF said:

While clearly Kirby Smart didnt trust him for some reason, I think it's also good to know he's already learned 2 very different systems.  Sure, he didnt get much run at Georgia but he was there for 2 years and he picked up Day's offense super fast and went off the second he got his chance.  That and the big game heroics, with all the incredible intangibles the kid has; class act, leader, Ivy league brain, all world athlete.  Just dont know what more you could ask for except for 4 years of starting experience. 

There needs to be like a mini 30 for 30 on Kirby Smart and the decision to pick Fromm over Fields/Eason.  

I agree, honestly, other than winning the championship game like Lawrence, I'm not sure what else Fields has to do.  This season he had 3 games where he had the same number or more touchdowns than incompletions yet people are all over Wilson dominating at BYU, with added injury concerns.  

I don't want to discount Wilson as a prospect because he certainly has qualities that are very good, but I don't see how he's overall better than Fields.  

16 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

He is exceptionally mature and I do not believe that Ny would be too big for him. And that is a thing. Just a watch of him on QB1 during his HS senior year shows how mature he is .

He seems like a level headed guy, and I love the leadership aspect on the team.  He could have easily taken it easy after the hit with Clemson, and no one could have blamed him, but he went out there and dominated.  

15 hours ago, Shockwave said:

 

Soured on Fields.

He's accurate when given the time but so is every NFL QB. The issue as briefly mentioned above is slow processing speed. He was slow against the blitz against college D's - wait until he gets blitzed every play in the NFL. 

This is going to be a HUGE issue in the NFL. Add that to that big Hitch in his motion which adds to his release time and he is going to struggle in the NFL/Perhaps not have that upside we all wish he would. 

I have Trey Lance above of Fields right now. 

 

 

I don't subscribe to PFF, and I don't plan to any time soon, but I think the stat is flawed.  

1.  The team doesn't run that many funnel screens, hot routes, as they mainly try to attack down the field with option routes.  This takes time.  

2.  As we saw in the superbowl, Mahomes ran around against the blitz for countless yards, only to throw an incomplete pass.  He extends plays like most mobile QBs, and that isn't a terrible thing. 

3. Colleges nowadays run a high amount of RPOs, which slow down the running game.  The stat doesn't tell the full story that it's comparing NFL time to throw times compared to college time to throw times.  Again, I don't have PFF for college, so I don't know what the stats are, but from watching film, I'm pretty sure Wilson has similar time to throw.   

14 hours ago, DeerPark said:

i'm with you Hawkeye.  Fields is deadly accurate and I think that is being overlooked.  Accuracy in the Shannahan or in any offense is paramount.  I kinda like all the hype Wilson is getting in hopes someone trades up to get him and maybe we still get our choice with either Fields or whomever

I think the accuracy down the field is the biggest aspect being over-looked, because that is the big reason behind Darnold's regression.  He can't seem to hit passes down the field quite as often, and teams just choke the passing lanes underneath.  

14 hours ago, Paradis said:

Yet Trevor Lawrence played like ass at times in his sophomore year and straight up choked in two playoff back back years as he got older, handling pressure poorly, missing on throws and showing a real lack of composure.

fcking crickets. 

Yet we got a mining crew worthy of mission Armageddon with Bruce Willis working on Justin Fields to crack some BS stat that basically applies to any college QB. 

I'll be honest, I'm a little surprised as to why Fields is the one that's getting railed on in this class.  Last year it was Herbert who was the target, even though I hated Tua.  Heard a ton of Tua's quick release and Brees accuracy.  Watson went through the same thing.  

I get Lawrence, media hype and what not.  But Wilson?  or Lance?  I just can't see it. 

13 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

+1

Pretty sure that I am guilty of not reading it.

It's a whole bunch of videos on the Shanahan offense, although I don't know if all of it will transfer over:

13 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Help me understand this supposed  'stat". The way I read it, and it is what I witnessed with Fields play, is he will wait until the last instance for someone to come open down field. In blitz situations, he often used his legs to buy more time. Not sure how this relates to "processing".

Now, what Fields has been guilty of, when improvising on a busted play, is trying to put the ball in a spot where he has no business going. That needs to be trained out of him. He needs to accept that incompletion is sometimes the best result.

Exactly, I want to see that stat for college QBs, rather than transitioning it to just the NFL.  I don't have PFF because I don't want to pay to evaluate prospects I have no control over attaining.  

I agree, he's a risk taker at times, which can cost him but so are most young QBs. 

 

11 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

That's what I've noticed about Fields too - he's so athletic so he can extend plays. What I like about Wilson's film is he goes through his progressions quickly and moves safetys with his eyes which helps get the receivers open. I don't see the progressions happening as quickly with Fields. I'm not saying he can't learn to do it, just that Wilson is already doing it. After watching Brady so many years, I want someone that can process info quickly and get the ball out.

This actually takes me back to an argument in another thread, how much eye control is a function of the competition?  If the competition isn't used to being manipulated by eyes, how much blame do they take for falling for it?  There was one example where he literally peaked to his right, and the safety ran to that side completely abandoning his middle field responsibility.  Wilson came back and threw a seam TD.  Would that same safety go as far out in the Big 10? Big 12? 

I completely understand the need for processing, but I don't see evidence that Fields can't process just as fast.  We're taking systemic differences into processing speeds.  

9 hours ago, maury77 said:

Here is the thing about the progression issues. It's largely a product of play calling. If Ohio State is calling a deep option route, you have to give the receiver time to try to get open before you decide to move to another target. Let me give you some video from our current QB:

This is Darnold at USC, where he was making quick reads. He goes through his progressions quickly:

Here he is last year in Gase's offense with long, slow developing routes. Looks like a completely different player.

When you are trying to evaluate how fast a QB goes through his progressions, the play call has to be taken into context as well.

I completely agree.  

9 hours ago, Grandy said:

The guy has accuracy stats off the charts, can throw it 60 yards down field with a rib injury, and is expected to run a 4.4 40 yard dash.

The new narrative of him being overrated and QB #4 is hogwash. Even if he didn't have a great statistical profile with big games against good teams, he would still be highly touted simply due to his physical tools. Just look at Josh Allen and his college profile. The new idea that a guy that has all of those physical tools AND the stats to back it up is overrated and bust material is ridiculous. 

I won't double down yet and say he's my favorite QB at 2 because I'm still debating and need to evaluate more, but no matter what my rankings are I will still be a happy man if he's the pick. 

Here's what I don't understand:

Justin Fields:  Lowest QBR game at OSU in 2 years: 33.4 vs Northwestern

Zach Wilson in his career at BYU: 4 Games below that mark (Albeit none this year)

Justin Fields (Oh but what about Indiana?): QBR of 82.4 vs a top 10 team at that point

Zach Wilson:  3 games below that mark this year.  

Honestly it does somewhat remind me of the Trubisky/Watson debate, and how Mitch could make all the throws from the pocket.  

7 hours ago, Mogglez said:

 

Lol, thank you fellas.  

I’ve been thinking of updating that thread instead of leaving information all over the forum because that’s how a lot of it gets lost.  I have said it a couple of times recently, in multiple threads, but I wouldn’t rule out Zach Wilson entirely.  Especially now that Saleh, a head coach who wants to run the Shanny system with LaFleur as his OC, is in place.  December is many moons in the past now that a Head Coach is in place.  The 49ers are, reportedly, very high on Zach.  I’m sure if we go QB at 2OA, Saleh and LaFleur will obviously have a big influence on the decision, and where they specifically came from bears mentioning.  I also believe that Wilson is going to blow teams away when he gets on the whiteboard and interviews with them.

More importantly, the team still needs to figure out what to do with ole Sammy boy first.  No one believed a first round pick was possible months ago.  Now?  Well, it’s certainly more tangible, especially if Wentz gets moved for a big package.  That all being said, I have heard nothing that indicates the team isn’t still high on the idea of Sam’s potential with a system and coaching staff tailored to take advantage of his talent.  Too many moving parts right now to call anything definitive.  

I like Wilson, if we trade to 5 and pick him, I'd be happy.  

I love Fields over him, and it'll be interesting to see how both of them do on the whiteboard.  

I thought Darnold would stay on with the team after the draft to be the bridge QB, sort of like they signed Bradford the same off-season they traded up for Wentz, and then dealt him.  The team that is really interesting to me is the Broncos for Darnold.  They have a team that can win now, but don't have the QB.  I feel like they could be a fit because they can pick up the 5th year option on Darnold (Von Miller contract off the books after this season), but not enough space to go after the truly special guys this season.  

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

"Trubisky? what a release... so quick. You know that's probably the most important indicator of success. Let's check the release time of Watson and Mahomes...."

-Chicago Bears, 2017.

 

Lol

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

Quite honestly - that's bullsh*t (quoting rnd article not you) No one knows what he's been asked to do, what he's been coached to do, and what was expected of the play. Wilson for all his cerebral prowess has a hell of time not staring down one side of the field and understanding where the open man is. 

You talk about accuracy and placement and all that -- when you have 45 mins to throw, against these defenses, you can wait for the WR to slide past window 1 to window 2 then even window 3.... It's looks amazing, but it's just a function of having forever to throw.

Wilson is talented, but hardly special

Meanwhile I DGAF what studies said what about Fields. I watched the motherfcker play. He's good at football.

I didn’t care that Keenan Allen ran a 4.5, I didn't care how "electric" people said Tavon Austin was, I didn't care how quick they said Trubisky's release was, I didn't care what Ebron's combine numbers were, I didn't care that Antonio Brown played at Central Michigan instead of Michigan, I didn't care where draft pundits thought Hakeem Butler would go, I didn't care that Todd Gurley had a knee injury going into the draft... etc etc.

And I don't care what some MIT frat house came up with for a non-standardized pseudo-measurable about his "response time"... 

Justin Fields can play QB and he'll be a good one.  And I think he'll be better than Wilson. Don't need to over think it. 

 

I still have no idea why he gets blasted.  I don't understand the scouting side of it, nor the stats angle, nor the athletic angle.  

Every year there is one big armed guy that gets all the love on message boards prior to the draft because the highlights are just great.  Jordan Love last year.  Deshone Kizer before him. 

[JustInFudge]

16 hours ago, win4ever said:

The sad part is that Fields played well enough to get to back to back national championships.  That Ohio State loss last year felt like one of those cursed team games where things just kept going wrong, and they played conservatively.  He went from one of the stupidest offensive scheme systems in college (honestly, has anyone done less with 5 star recruits than Georgia?) to Ohio State without a break, and absolutely was a stud.  

My original idea was to keep Darnold, after picking up the 5th year option, and use him as the bridge.  Now that I'm hearing first round pick for him, it might be better to go with a lower value one.  I wouldn't want to throw Fields into the fray on day 1, but I'm not sure who my target is. 

Right?  I get if you're OL and RB but if you're a QB, WR or TE, why play for UGA?  @Lith

I hear ya with Darnold, I was originally of the mind of Darnold and Fields but I think we just need to hit reset at the position.  Especially if they can get a 2 (I'm not buy this 1 talk) but even a 3, I'd do it, find a bridge and give Fields a year on the bench. I think there are some good options in FA.  I really wont pretend to know who fits the scheme best but I feel like with any one of; Fitz, Brissett, Taylor, Dalton Winston - would all fit the bill and give you an opportunity to truly assess the rest of the roster while you bring Fields along.  You just have to ignore the pressure of not starting the #2 overall but I think it's the right thing to do.

[JustInFudge]

12 hours ago, win4ever said:

There needs to be like a mini 30 for 30 on Kirby Smart and the decision to pick Fromm over Fields/Eason.  

I agree, honestly, other than winning the championship game like Lawrence, I'm not sure what else Fields has to do.  This season he had 3 games where he had the same number or more touchdowns than incompletions yet people are all over Wilson dominating at BYU, with added injury concerns.  

I don't want to discount Wilson as a prospect because he certainly has qualities that are very good, but I don't see how he's overall better than Fields.  

I think they just fell in the love with the fact they came so close his freshman year and it jaded them which ultimately hurt them in the long run.

I legitimately dont understand how Wilson is being talked about as the #2 overall pick.  It's crazy that he's not considered a reach there but Fields is...really doesnt add up in my mind but I do think there are appealing aspects to his game.  I just recently did some watching of his snap by snap stuff and well, do you plan on doing work on Wilson?   I'll save my thoughts if you do.   I havent really gone too deep in a while but I appreciate your breakdowns and would be curious if you see some of the same things I did.

 

[David Harris]

I'm more than fine with Fields, just hope we get a solid veteran to start the season as Fields needs time to learn how to read the field and go through progressions.  Zach Wilson may end up better but he scares the hell out of me due to the conference he played in.

 

Fields has every physical attribute you could want.

 

God, I hope we just get Watson - that puts it all to rest for the next 10 years.

[Lith]

19 hours ago, win4ever said:

He went from one of the stupidest offensive scheme systems in college (honestly, has anyone done less with 5 star recruits than Georgia?) to Ohio State without a break, and absolutely was a stud.  

 

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Right?  I get if you're OL and RB but if you're a QB, WR or TE, why play for UGA?  @Lith

Can't really argue with either of you.  Kirby has been such a great recruiter, he has brought in a some highly touted WR recruits, but none have developed.  I really thought that adding Monken last year would help bring UGA offense into the 21st century, and there were some glimpses of it once Daniels got into the lineup, but we have been pretty much 3 yards and a cloud of dust on offense.  With a great defense, we can win lots of games, but once we go up against a high powered offenses, we are screwed.  Florida, Bama this year, LSU last year.  We can't score with the big guys.

Now, with two five star QB recruits, plus Daniels, I have little faith in Kirby's ability to handle these three guys and open up the offense.  Scares me that we are going to screw this up the way we screwed up the handling of Fields & Fromm decision a few years ago.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Lith said:

 

Can't really argue with either of you.  Kirby has been such a great recruiter, he has brought in a some highly touted WR recruits, but none have developed.  I really thought that adding Monken last year would help bring UGA offense into the 21st century, and there were some glimpses of it once Daniels got into the lineup, but we have been pretty much 3 yards and a cloud of dust on offense.  With a great defense, we can win lots of games, but once we go up against a high powered offenses, we are screwed.  Florida, Bama this year, LSU last year.  We can't score with the big guys.

Now, with two five star QB recruits, plus Daniels recruit, I have little faith in Kirby's ability to handle these three guys and open up the offense.  Scares me that we are going to screw this up the way we screwed up the handling of Fields & Fromm decision a few years ago.

Reminds me of the LSU offenses under Les Miles and with Orgeron before Joe Brady .

[win4ever]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I think they just fell in the love with the fact they came so close his freshman year and it jaded them which ultimately hurt them in the long run.

I legitimately dont understand how Wilson is being talked about as the #2 overall pick.  It's crazy that he's not considered a reach there but Fields is...really doesnt add up in my mind but I do think there are appealing aspects to his game.  I just recently did some watching of his snap by snap stuff and well, do you plan on doing work on Wilson?   I'll save my thoughts if you do.   I havent really gone too deep in a while but I appreciate your breakdowns and would be curious if you see some of the same things I did.

 

Yeah, I heard they thought Fromm had great mental capacity, but man he sucked.  

I don't understand it either, it eerily reminds me of the Watson/Tribusky situation.  Maybe in the same year, I remember Kizer being talked up because that arm talent was so rare.  PFF I believe rated Kizer No. 1 that year.  I don't like hearing the main media takes because there's always an agenda behind it.  It's all about creating conversation, but then it gets such a following that I start refraining from posting because it feels useless.  

I do want to make a Fields/Wilson breakdown, but my issue really is that I can't find All 22 film for BYU.  I can't seem to find anything from them on All 22, which makes it hard to decipher.  From the few clips that I've seen, I could see a bunch of issues.  I'll give one example here, from regular tv angle.  

The start of the play, all 11 defenders are on screen, so essentially works like All 22 film.  They start with the two safeties being split, but one moves down for coverage of the left slot receiver (TE? I'm not sure).  This is a case where he's looking at the safety but there is no read whatsoever, because he didn't process the actual defensive shell.   

My issues: (I don't care about the throw being of, because it's a long throw, it happens)

1.  What is the purpose of the RPO here?  Considering the defensive shell shifting from dual safety to single middle field safety, that defender is no longer supporting the run.  So what is the purpose of the RPO?  The run option is built into the system for the linebacker to the slot side, because he's the one you are baiting with the RPO, yet he doesn't even look there.  The RPO is designed to bring both linebackers up, to deal with the lead block TE and the RB.  

2.  I'm not sure of the concept here, but it looks like 3 vertical routes, with 2 check down routes.  I want to say smash-divide but I'm not certain, the outside receivers are running verts instead of curls.  Anyway, the first read here needs to the left slot receiver because the safety is cheating towards him.  If he makes that read, this is an easy seam pass, with a check-down built into it, with the single high safety covering too much ground to make up the difference.   You can even see the slot receiver look back as soon as he crosses the safety in case it's a pass to him.  

3.  Instead, Wilson has his mind set from the snap to go towards the boundary receiver, who has a defender giving him ample space.  His defender is like 8 yards off the ball.  So, if you are the QB, and you see a defense move from split safeties to a single high safety to the right, with the left safety moving towards your slot receiver, while the one defender is playing that far back, then you have to realize they are protecting against exactly this route.  This is the type of recognition you would see Manning make, call a curl route and take the free yards.  The defender has no help, and is advertising his helplessness on a deep route by giving up all that space, yet Wilson still takes the shot there.  He completely ignores the function of the RPO, and doesn't make in the built in read from the RPO for the seam/checkdown option.  

4.  Let's throw out every other option in the middle in this scenario, and operate under the impression that he made up his mind at the snap.  Why did he pick the right side receiver?  Both boundary guys are running go routes.  On the right, you have a defender that is 8 yards off the ball, with a safety rotating from that side (therefore closer to that receiver).  On the left, you have a defender about 3-4 yards off the ball who has already opened up his hips to allow inside leverage, with the only safety in the area vacated for the slot receiver.  Why not pick the left receiver, because that's has a better theoretical chance of succeeding.  The right side receiver is blanketed, so it wasn't like he saw an opening and threw the ball.   

On the onset, this looks like a simple deep throw that missed, but it shows a good highlight of him not understanding the concepts of what he saw.  I don't see the processing speed, I see a QB that made up his mind from the get go, and more times than not has an arm that can over-come mental mistakes against that level of competition.  We saw Bryce Petty dominate in college with bad reads because it honestly didn't matter.  

I'm not saying he's bad, but I don't see this other worldly processor.  He has a great arm, and some very good upside.  If I'm a team picking at 10, I'd love the thought of him dropping to them.  But this hype seems completely surrounded on his arm, when there are better overall choices out there.  

 

[fullblast]

 

19 hours ago, win4ever said:

Nor does he wear a headband. 

Great post, but I have to disagree here:

Undraftable!!