NFL rumors: Texans apparently won’t trade Deshaun Watson to Eagles for Carson Wentz — and would only do a deal with Jets

[chad2coles]

32 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The optimism re free agents is ridiculous in these scenarios.

So let me ask you, are we getting watson for #2 overall and that is it?  If so go or it!

Cap room is the most  overrated aspect to any team and how we are still going to have plenty of cap room in coming years after adding all the guys you just added is anyones guess.

 

 

Cap room will be more valuable this year than almost any other offseason, and the Jets will have the most space.  I used cap info from Spotrac and estimates from PFF.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/new-york-jets/2021/e8415f07fb96ffc0301e66d839c1b0dd/
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2021-free-agency-top-100-free-agents
Mock Offseason:
Starting Cap Space: $75.5M

Cuts:
[1] Cut Henry Anderson ($8.2M)
[2] Cut Alex Lewis ($5.2M)
[3] Cut Greg Van Roten ($3.4M)
[4] Cut Ryan Griffin ($2.8M)
Cap Impact $19.6M

Trades:
[1] Trade #2 overall, #34 overall, '22 SEA 1st round pick, '23 1st round pick to HOU for Deshaun Watson (-$10.5M)
[2] Trade Sam Darnold to the Panthers for their 2nd round pick. ($4.75M)
Cap Impact $-6.25

Restructure:
[1] Jamison Crowder $28M/3 years, $7M Cap Hit
Cap Impact $4.4M

Updated Cap Space: $93.25M

Free Agency:
For the 3 largest contracts, I used the contract information on Spotrac for recent contracts of similar players. The rest of the smaller contracts are from PFF when available with an AAV cap hit.

[1] G Joe Thuney $57M/4 yrs, (Cap Hit: '21 - $14.5M, '22 - $17.5M (Brandon Brooke))
[2] WR Allen Robinson $84/4 yrs, (Cap Hit: '21 - $15.7M, '22 - $19.2M (Keenan Allen))
[3] S Marcus Maye $60M/4yrs (Cap Hit: '21 - $7.8M, '22 - $14.8M (Budda Baker))
[4] DE Bud Dupree $14M/1yr, $14M Cap Hit (PFF suggested $10M, Clayton floated $6M)
[5] CB Jason Verrett $14M/2yrs, $7M Cap Hit (PFF suggested $5M)
[6] CB K'waun Williams $10M/2yrs, $5M Cap Hit (PFF suggested $4M)
[7] LB Hewitt $5M/2 yrs, $2.5M Cap Hit
[8] G Elfien $2M/1yr
[9] LB Luvu $1M/1yr
Cap Impact $69.5M

Draft: $10M
Not going to suggest specific players, but the Jets will have 5 picks in the top 100 (#23, #40, #66, #87, #96) and a draft pick in each round of the '22 draft.

Cap Space Remaining: $13.75M

The Jets would be committed to $181M for 2022.

[Sperm Edwards]

8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

'division title' in a lousy sad sack division vs a div with the pats, yeah good comparison.

also they won div titles with deandre hopkins and others, talent level dropped and they won 4 games.

He will be coming to a jets team with the same or less talent than houston and like houston with no high pick resources.

That last part isn’t true, unless the Jets trade #2, #37, #34, both 1st rounders next season, and whatever pick Darnold returns, too.

At least on offense, what the Jets need is not something that is only cured by extra draft picks. They need one FA OLman for sure. Another can be via FA or another day 2 pick, but a 3rd one can wait another year. Their OL as it is right now - without upgrading anyone - is better than Houston’s was last year. 

Beyond that there’s a WR1 or 1a type, and there are not only more than one available in FA this year but there’ll be less competition for them than usual. They weren’t overhauling the WR corps in 2021 via the draft. That’s a FA pickup whether they trade picks for Watson or trade down from #2 and accumulate even more. Mims isn’t proven enough to only add rookies.

And they need another RB, but as a worst-case scenario there are plenty of short-term patches that won’t be major investments while they use mid/later rounders on the position. 

Losing a few picks is a temporary issue, anyway. Missing out on a FQB has been an ongoing issue for decades, and - while nobody plans for this to be the case - searching for someone 80% of Watson could take at least another 10 years to find. 

Whatever, he’s not even available as we sit today. But if he is, then imo instead of drawing imaginary lowball lines in the sand, Jets fans should be thanking the perfect timing of Watson’s availability coming at the perfect timing of when we’ve got a #2 overall pick plus an extra pair of 1s for trading Adams. 

[Beerfish]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That last part isn’t true, unless the Jets trade #2, #37, #34, both 1st rounders next season, and whatever pick Darnold returns, too.

At least on offense, what the Jets need is not something that is only cured by extra draft picks. They need one FA OLman for sure. Another can be via FA or another day 2 pick, but a 3rd one can wait another year. Their OL as it is right now - without upgrading anyone - is better than Houston’s was last year. 

Beyond that there’s a WR1 or 1a type, and there are not only more than one available in FA this year but there’ll be less competition for them than usual. They weren’t overhauling the WR corps in 2021 via the draft. That’s a FA pickup whether they trade picks for Watson or trade down from #2 and accumulate even more. Mims isn’t proven enough to only add rookies.

And they need another RB, but as a worst-case scenario there are plenty of short-term patches that won’t be major investments while they use mid/later rounders on the position. 

Losing a few picks is a temporary issue, anyway. Missing out on a FQB has been an ongoing issue for decades, and - while nobody plans for this to be the case - searching for someone 80% of Watson could take at least another 10 years to find. 

Whatever, he’s not even available as we sit today. But if he is, then imo instead of drawing imaginary lowball lines in the sand, Jets fans should be thanking the perfect timing of Watson’s availability coming at the perfect timing of when we’ve got a #2 overall pick plus an extra pair of 1s for trading Adams. 

What are you prepared to give up.

My beef is everyone jumping at the player and ignoring the ask or projecting a bargain price then proceeding to project a massive kill it FA where we get every guy we want.

As I've said all along you have to look at the price deeper than 'oh we can give up 3 first rounders for him'

Because #2 overall with a trade down can be parlayed into 3 first rounders itself.  On top of that both our pick and the seattle pick next year could be high.

Our team is utterly lacking in talent in just about every single position. We are good at DT.  Other than that we need help everywhere.

Look into the trade, make a reasonable offer, set a deadline and then walk away.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

What are you prepared to give up.

My beef is everyone jumping at the player and ignoring the ask or projecting a bargain price then proceeding to project a massive kill it FA where we get every guy we want.

As I've said all along you have to look at the price deeper than 'oh we can give up 3 first rounders for him'

Because #2 overall with a trade down can be parlayed into 3 first rounders itself.  On top of that both our pick and the seattle pick next year could be high.

Our team is utterly lacking in talent in just about every single position. We are good at DT.  Other than that we need help everywhere.

Look into the trade, make a reasonable offer, set a deadline and then walk away.

Well that’s the thing is we don’t really have our ears inside as to how likely they are to also sign this or that player. I may have targets like Robinson and/or Thuney, but yeah duh others will also target each of them. 

I think there’s enough available this year in FA to add a serious WR, even if it’s not my top choice, and same for OL. 

I’m less concerned - presuming a trade-down from #2 - with the Jets drafting 9 first and 2nd rounders in the upcoming two drafts. Since the drafts don’t end there - we’ve got three 3rd rounders also, on top of all our other picks - I think it’s making us destined to waste some of them because they can’t all be on the field together.  Yes I suppose they can keep moving 1-2 of them for extra high picks in 2023 and/or 2024 to spread those picks out, but 2023 picks that may start to really take hold in 2024 or 2025 is a bit much to plan for in 2021. There’s ignoring the long game and then there’s going overboard on the long game, and - to me - that would fall into the latter.

It’s hard to say what I’d give - of course I’d prefer whatever’s the lowest offer that gets him - but I’m less reliant on what might be with draft picks than known quantities. Admittedly some of that - maybe more than some - is because I’m not a draft hawk and don’t follow college ball.

Push comes to shove? If it came down to #2 plus #23 plus one our 1s next year? I’d rather it doesn’t come to that, but yes I’d make that move if there’s enough competition for Watson that it’s required. Involving fewer picks, I’d move #2 plus Williams (plus another 3rd if needed), seeing how easily I can see the QB-needy Jets still sucking with those 2-3 picks instead of Watson. Also understand this isn’t how a negotiation works in reality - one doesn’t start out with the maximum offer - but then, in reality I’m not going to be the one on the phone either lol. 

Pretend you’re Houston, and ask me what you think beyond that is what they’d demand and I’ll tell you if I’d do it or not. At that point I’d look at what we’d have left and see what I think I could build with those remaining resources, and if I think I could make a winner out of it.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well that’s the thing is we don’t really have our ears inside as to how likely they are to also sign this or that player. I may have targets like Robinson and/or Thuney, but yeah duh others will also target each of them. 

I think there’s enough available this year in FA to add a serious WR, even if it’s not my top choice, and same for OL. 

I’m less concerned - presuming a trade-down from #2 - with the Jets drafting 9 first and 2nd rounders in the upcoming two drafts. Since the drafts don’t end there - we’ve got three 3rd rounders also, on top of all our other picks - I think it’s making us destined to waste some of them because they can’t all be on the field together.  Yes I suppose they can keep moving 1-2 of them for extra high picks in 2023 and/or 2024 to spread those picks out, but 2023 picks that may start to really take hold in 2024 or 2025 is a bit much to plan for in 2021. There’s ignoring the long game and then there’s going overboard on the long game, and - to me - that would fall into the latter.

It’s hard to say what I’d give - of course I’d prefer whatever’s the lowest offer that gets him - but I’m less reliant on what might be with draft picks than known quantities. Admittedly some of that - maybe more than some - is because I’m not a draft hawk and don’t follow college ball.

Push comes to shove? If it came down to #2 plus #23 plus one our 1s next year? I’d rather it doesn’t come to that, but yes I’d make that move if there’s enough competition for Watson that it’s required. Involving fewer picks, I’d move #2 plus Williams (plus another 3rd if needed), seeing how easily I can see the QB-needy Jets still sucking with those 2-3 picks instead of Watson. Also understand this isn’t how a negotiation works in reality - one doesn’t start out with the maximum offer - but then, in reality I’m not going to be the one on the phone either lol. 

Pretend you’re Houston, and ask me what you think beyond that is what they’d demand and I’ll tell you if I’d do it or not. At that point I’d look at what we’d have left and see what I think I could build with those remaining resources, and if I think I could make a winner out of it.

2, 23 and a 1 next year, doing a quick mock trading down it looks like this:

Pitts or Devonta smith (WR or TE weapon)

Jaycee horn (high end CB prospects)

Najee harris or one of two solid OT propects

Two 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd for the trade downs plus either the jets or seattle picks next year either or both which could be high.

For Watson.

Hey I like watson a lot but the jets can transform a sorry talent barren team into a much improved talent team with mega resources next year to go after a QB via draft or trade.

It will be interesting to see what happens in FA because every year this forum throws around tons of names and comes away with much less.  Fa solves nothing and is often fools gold.

 

 

 

[Charlie Brown]

The trade is simple this year No 2; Next years No. 1, this year’s 3rd pick and yes a player in Marcus Maye.  

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

2, 23 and a 1 next year, doing a quick mock trading down it looks like this:

Pitts or Devonta smith (WR or TE weapon)

Jaycee horn (high end CB prospects)

Najee harris or one of two solid OT propects

Two 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd for the trade downs plus either the jets or seattle picks next year either or both which could be high.

For Watson.

Hey I like watson a lot but the jets can transform a sorry talent barren team into a much improved talent team with mega resources next year to go after a QB via draft or trade.

It will be interesting to see what happens in FA because every year this forum throws around tons of names and comes away with much less.  Fa solves nothing and is often fools gold.

 

 

 

Yeah I get all that. I also think they’re still just prospects with bust factors (not all will, of course, and possibly none will, but right now they’re names/prospects, not valuable NFL starters). 

FA does not solve nothing. There is no champion team in league history that’s built its team via the draft alone. They all made key additions via free agency; it simply takes too long to build purely through the draft. And if your plan is to slowly build so we can have a championship in 6 years, then an extra 2-3 picks from so many years earlier will pale in comparison to a true FQB. 

I don’t see the advantage in using 2-3 draft picks to trade up for a prospect - assuming a worthy one will even be within reach in the next 2 drafts - is better than a known quantity who’s still probably got a good dozen or so excellent (if not great) seasons left in him. 

He won’t hide as many flaws as the Texans had — no one will. But he’ll hide enough that the extra picks won’t be as significant for the Jets as they would be for a team without two extra 1sts and an extra 3rd (plus a couple more later picks). If Douglas is anywhere near as good as we want (and need) him to be, the team should be able to add starters without relying purely upon 1st round picks.

No doubt it’d be far better (and of course it’d be my preference) to find another Watson or even near-Watson in the draft - particularly much lower in the draft than #2 overall - but it’s not just a tall order to expect one to be there, it’s to expect one to be there and the Jets will be the one team to draft & develop him. They do appear; just saying the odds are not just against there being one when we’re looking, but that the one we draft will be someone else. It’ll be a Darnold (or Rosen, whom we also could’ve ended up with) instead of Allen; it’ll be Hackenberg or another 2nd-3rd rounder instead of Prescott; it’ll be taking another position altogether over Watson or Mahomes. The only way to really narrow those odds is to draft a half dozen QBs in the next 2-4 years and hope that one of them has it in him. Absent that, or getting lucky? You find a veteran.

I just think it’s too unique an opportunity to pass up on (ditto other rumors like Dak or even Wilson being available, though Dak’s a notch lower and his injury isn’t without concern; Wilson has several fewer years left in him and for all his talent there are real concerns about how much the locker room responds to him).

[Beerfish]

58 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah I get all that. I also think they’re still just prospects with bust factors (not all will, of course, and possibly none will, but right now they’re names/prospects, not valuable NFL starters). 

FA does not solve nothing. There is no champion team in league history that’s built its team via the draft alone. They all made key additions via free agency; it simply takes too long to build purely through the draft. And if your plan is to slowly build so we can have a championship in 6 years, then an extra 2-3 picks from so many years earlier will pale in comparison to a true FQB. 

I don’t see the advantage in using 2-3 draft picks to trade up for a prospect - assuming a worthy one will even be within reach in the next 2 drafts - is better than a known quantity who’s still probably got a good dozen or so excellent (if not great) seasons left in him. 

He won’t hide as many flaws as the Texans had — no one will. But he’ll hide enough that the extra picks won’t be as significant for the Jets as they would be for a team without two extra 1sts and an extra 3rd (plus a couple more later picks). If Douglas is anywhere near as good as we want (and need) him to be, the team should be able to add starters without relying purely upon 1st round picks.

No doubt it’d be far better (and of course it’d be my preference) to find another Watson or even near-Watson in the draft - particularly much lower in the draft than #2 overall - but it’s not just a tall order to expect one to be there, it’s to expect one to be there and the Jets will be the one team to draft & develop him. They do appear; just saying the odds are not just against there being one when we’re looking, but that the one we draft will be someone else. It’ll be a Darnold (or Rosen, whom we also could’ve ended up with) instead of Allen; it’ll be Hackenberg or another 2nd-3rd rounder instead of Prescott; it’ll be taking another position altogether over Watson or Mahomes. The only way to really narrow those odds is to draft a half dozen QBs in the next 2-4 years and hope that one of them has it in him. Absent that, or getting lucky? You find a veteran.

I just think it’s too unique an opportunity to pass up on (ditto other rumors like Dak or even Wilson being available, though Dak’s a notch lower and his injury isn’t without concern; Wilson has several fewer years left in him and for all his talent there are real concerns about how much the locker room responds to him).

I can see that as long as people actually realize what we are potentially giving up. (other than just a few numbers)

I prefer to build the team 1st then add a QB.

I've seen too many QBs get assed kicked on teams that are talent poor.

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Because #2 overall with a trade down can be parlayed into 3 first rounders itself. 

So, three first rounders is too much to give up for Deshaun Watson, but some team is going to give up three first rounders for Zack Wilson?

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I can see that as long as people actually realize what we are potentially giving up. (other than just a few numbers)

I prefer to build the team 1st then add a QB.

I've seen too many QBs get assed kicked on teams that are talent poor.

Hey, if I knew that Fields or Wilson would be 80% of Watson I'd go with one of them. Even at #2 for either, without getting cute and trading down (and risk losing him in the process).

[32EBoozer]

9 hours ago, Bronx said:

You can meet me here and find out on your own, 3-5 times a week, 9-4

Oh yeah I know this place! Harlem River Right off the Dykman St. Bridge 

[K_O_Brien]

 

[Wit]

26 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

 

Ok so let me get this straight. He only wants to go to teams that will

be super bowl contenders next year snd have no draft Capitol. Got it. 

[oatmeal]

28 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

 

Why is everyone making this so hard? Shannon Sharpe who has been in front of this story(ahead of anyone on this one)  has stated multiple times Deshaun likes the Jets. Shannon is in direct contact with Watson’s camp and people are just ignoring  his statements on this situation. 
 

it’s truly comical  

[Greenseed4]

31 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

 

But but, the green straw!?

[68JET11]

21 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No matter how good a GM is, the 50+ % failure rate is applicable.  Especially at QB.  I can't imagine how any Jets fan is so much more willing to roll those dice again at QB over acquiring a sure thing, even at a high cost.  Historically for the league and especially in the Jets' history, drafting a QB comes with incredibly high risk. 

Personally I'm a believer in Justin Fields but I'd throw him away plus other high picks in a heartbeat for a lock elite franchise QB entering his prime.  Fields is merely my plan B.  But with all the rumors about Wilson floating around, it seems more likely he's a plan C for the Jets, which scares me.  I prefer Fields to Wilson.

It is because I am a JD supporter that you should be wondering why I want to give up draft capital for Watson so badly and re-think your position!

As much as I don't want Fields at #2, because I think he can be had between 4-8, I'd rather go with a trade down and pick up Fields and more picks, have him on a rookie contract, and use the other picks to build this team. If you believe he is better than Wilson, and on par with TL, then it makes sense to roll with him, and not trade away any picks for Watson. I get he's an unknown, but for once I'd like the JETS to pick the FQB, and not have to pluck him from another team, when we could have had them in the first place.

[Bleedin Green]

7 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I can see that as long as people actually realize what we are potentially giving up. (other than just a few numbers)

I prefer to build the team 1st then add a QB.

I've seen too many QBs get assed kicked on teams that are talent poor.

Sounds great in theory, but have you watched the Jets since the merger?

The overwhelming evidence would suggest they have an excessively higher risk of that approach leading to the most talented rosters in team history getting dragged down by the never-ending stream of crap that are Jets' QBs.

QB is the single most difficult position to fill in the NFL by an excessively wide margin, and similarly the most important, so the concept of a casual "we'll figure it out later" does not work far more often than not.

[Jetsfan80]

25 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

As much as I don't want Fields at #2, because I think he can be had between 4-8, I'd rather go with a trade down and pick up Fields and more picks, have him on a rookie contract, and use the other picks to build this team. If you believe he is better than Wilson, and on par with TL, then it makes sense to roll with him, and not trade away any picks for Watson. I get he's an unknown, but for once I'd like the JETS to pick the FQB, and not have to pluck him from another team, when we could have had them in the first place.

I mean, how often does this really happen that a team is able to trade down and still get its QB of choice?  If you like a QB, you either stick and pick him or trade UP to get him.  Teams don't d**k around with stuff like that.  Nor should they.  It's too important a decision for your franchise to risk losing your guy.  

And if the QB is worth taking 4-8, then he's worth taking at 2.  If not, he's not worth taking.  In that instance you trade down to take a player at an alternative position.  

[Jetsfan80]

27 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Sounds great in theory, but have you watched the Jets since the merger?

The overwhelming evidence would suggest they have an excessively higher risk of that approach leading to the most talented rosters in team history getting dragged down by the never-ending stream of crap that are Jets' QBs.

QB is the single most difficult position to fill in the NFL by an excessively wide margin, and similarly the most important, so the concept of a casual "we'll figure it out later" does not work far more often than not.

And there are a lot of instances in recent history where a team tried to "figure out QB later" that we can turn to in order to demonstrate how difficult this is:

• Jets -  Brett Favre, Mark Sanchez (post contract extension, especially), Ryan Fitzpatrick, Christian Hackenberg
• Rams - Goff, post contract extension (yes, they got to a Super Bowl on a fluke bad call.  They just traded Goff, so clearly that experiment failed.  Note that the mistake wasn't trading up for Goff initially.  It was doubling down and handing him an extension that made him the # 6 paid QB in the NFL)
• Vikings - Kirk Cousins (they got further in the playoffs with Case Keenum than they ever have with Cousins, the # 7 paid QB in the NFL)
• Colts - Jacoby Brissett/Phillip Rivers (2 playoff appearances in the 6 years since Luck's retirement, 1 playoff win in 2018)
• Patriots - Cam Newton 
• 49ers - Jimmy Garoppolo (their Super Bowl appearance had almost nothing to do with anything Jimmy G did)
• Bears - Nick Foles (rather than making a clean departure from Trubisky, they killed any window they had with the Trubisky/Foles tandem in 2020)

 

The only recent situations where this worked were the Broncos with Peyton Manning and the Bucs with Tom Brady.  These are very different form the situations above, because the Broncos and Bucs were clearly acquiring an elite QB at the time, whose only risk was age.  You can't depend on an elite QB being cut loose in a given year.  Hence why Watson makes too much sense to pass up on.  He's elite AND young, not yet in his prime.  The above QB's were all big question marks.

[MykePM]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I mean, how often does this really happen that a team is able to trade down and still get its QB of choice?  If you like a QB, you either stick and pick him or trade UP to get him.  Teams don't d**k around with stuff like that.  Nor should they.  It's too important a decision for your franchise to risk losing your guy.  

And if the QB is worth taking 4-8, then he's worth taking at 2.  If not, he's not worth taking.  In that instance you trade down to take a player at an alternative position.  

Reports (including that of @football guy) suggest that the Jets braintrust is weighing the value of keeping Sam and trading pick #2 vs. the value of trading Sam and drafting a QB at #2.  If they are truly on the fence between those 2 options, I think the “trade down, still draft Fields” outcome is possible.  The value of ‘trading pick #2 + trading Sam + drafting QB (rookie contract)’ would seem to be the best value of all, if someone like Fields drops, and the Jets are willing to wait and see if things fall that way.

I think you’re right that in most situations teams won’t risk a tradedown if they have a chance to draft a QB that they believe in.  However, the norm is that a team looking to draft a QB that high doesn’t already have a young QB of some value who they might be content to stick with.  I know you don’t want to acknowledge that the Jets may be willing to move ahead with Sam, but reports say that they’re considering it.

But hey, the thing we do seem to agree on is the hope that a Deshaun Watson deal falls into place and these other possibilities aren’t needed - so let’s continue to root for that to happen.

[J_Smith]

I feel like everyone is forgetting we just have to be ON the list, being #1 doesn’t matter. We can offer the best trade package

[Jetsfan80]

16 minutes ago, MykePM said:

Reports (including that of @football guy) suggest that the Jets braintrust is weighing the value of keeping Sam and trading pick #2 vs. the value of trading Sam and drafting a QB at #2.  If they are truly on the fence between those 2 options, I think the “trade down, still draft Fields” outcome is possible.  The value of ‘trading pick #2 + trading Sam + drafting QB (rookie contract)’ would seem to be the best value of all, if someone like Fields drops, and the Jets are willing to wait and see if things fall that way.

I think you’re right that in most situations teams won’t risk a tradedown if they have a chance to draft a QB that they believe in.  However, the norm is that a team looking to draft a QB that high doesn’t already have a young QB of some value who they might be content to stick with.  I know you don’t want to acknowledge that the Jets may be willing to move ahead with Sam, but reports say that they’re considering it.

But hey, the thing we do seem to agree on is the hope that a Deshaun Watson deal falls into place and these other possibilities aren’t needed - so let’s continue to root for that to happen.

 

It's a looooong way until draft day.  Any reports suggesting the Jets aren't currently in love with the QB prospects available to them are either a smokescreen or entirely too early in the process to report.  QB's don't tend to move down the draft board over time, they pretty much only move up, and no one really has a clue how teams view these guys anyways.  Too many GM's and scouting departments are going to fall in love with Fields, Wilson and Lance for it to be possible to trade down and be confident any one of them will be available.  

I definitely buy that the Jets are higher on Darnold than most of us fans are.  Though part of this could be strategic as well.  They don't want ANY leaks suggesting anything other than Darnold being the expected QB1 in 2021 in an effort to keep his trade value high.  This could easily be a situation where the Jets are very high on Darnold until the moment he gets traded.  Just like Douglas supposedly wanted Jamal Adams to be a Jet for life.

And yes.  Please, please, please make Watson to the Jets a reality, despite the low odds of it actually coming to fruition.

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

It's a looooong way until draft day.  Any reports suggesting the Jets aren't currently in love with the QB prospects available to them are either a smokescreen or entirely too early in the process to report.  QB's don't tend to move down the draft board over time, they pretty much only move up, and no one really has a clue how teams view these guys anyways.  Too many GM's and scouting departments are going to fall in love with Fields, Wilson and Lance for it to be possible to trade down and be confident any one of them will be available.  

I definitely buy that the Jets are higher on Darnold than most of us fans are.  Though part of this could be strategic as well.  They don't want ANY leaks suggesting anything other than Darnold being the expected QB1 in 2021 in an effort to keep his trade value high.  This could easily be a situation where the Jets are very high on Darnold until the moment he gets traded.  Just like Douglas supposedly wanted Jamal Adams to be a Jet for life.

And yes.  Please, please, please make Watson to the Jets a reality, despite the low odds of it actually coming to fruition.

They don't?   Tell that to Rosen, Manziel, Bridgewater, Geno, Clausen, Quinn, Leinart and a whole host of others.  Hell, tell it to Watson. 

[prime21]

2 hours ago, K_O_Brien said:

 

 

It is what it is.  Getting a top QB via a trade is mostly a dream so lets finally wake up and figure if its fields, Wilson or Sam.

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

They don't?   Tell that to Rosen, Manziel, Bridgewater, Geno, Clausen, Quinn, Leinart and a whole host of others.  Hell, tell it to Watson. 

And I'll counter with Justin Herbert, Daniel Jones, Baker Mayfield, Mitchell Trubisky, Carson Wentz, Blake Bortles, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Mark Sanchez, Jay Cutler, and a host of other late risers as well.  

Do Winston and Mariota qualify too?  They were fairly underwhelming prospects that got pushed up to 1-2 because of a bad surrounding draft class overall.

It's a huge risk to expect a QB to be available to you after a trade down.  If you like him enough to make him "your guy", why chance that?

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, K_O_Brien said:

 

Texans trying to spin up a market now that they’re in free fall. Douglas is sitting back right now hoping Caserio doesn’t simply hang himself before he can accept his terms

[Bronx]

13 hours ago, chad2coles said:

WR Allen Robinson $

I read an article that the Jags are one of his preferred destinations.

[MykePM]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's a looooong way until draft day.  Any reports suggesting the Jets aren't currently in love with the QB prospects available to them are either a smokescreen or entirely too early in the process to report.  QB's don't tend to move down the draft board over time, they pretty much only move up, and no one really has a clue how teams view these guys anyways.  Too many GM's and scouting departments are going to fall in love with Fields, Wilson and Lance for it to be possible to trade down and be confident any one of them will be available.  

Tell that to Aaron Rodgers.

Plus, I don’t see Joe D. bypassing Fields at #2 to trade down, then crossing his fingers and hoping he falls to him later.  I think JD would make the call that the tradedown is the best value proposition at that time, and then if Fields happens to be available with our next pick, go “Hmmmm....”.  I think that’s probably what happened in Round 2 last year with the tradedown and Denzel Mims.

 

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

Sounds great in theory, but have you watched the Jets since the merger?

The overwhelming evidence would suggest they have an excessively higher risk of that approach leading to the most talented rosters in team history getting dragged down by the never-ending stream of crap that are Jets' QBs.

QB is the single most difficult position to fill in the NFL by an excessively wide margin, and similarly the most important, so the concept of a casual "we'll figure it out later" does not work far more often than not.

Well I find it funny that people on one had pass off draft resources as being risky and not that important vs the known QB

then in the next breath they tell me we are going to build a great roster to complement the Qb  with all our draft picks.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, MykePM said:

Tell that to Aaron Rodgers.

Plus, I don’t see Joe D. bypassing Fields at #2 to trade down, then crossing his fingers and hoping he falls to him later.  I think JD would make the call that the tradedown is the best value proposition at that time, and then if Fields happens to be available with our next pick, go “Hmmmm....”.  I think that’s probably what happened in Round 2 last year with the tradedown and Denzel Mims.

Sure.  But that would suggest the Jets don't actually view Fields a legitimate franchise QB candidate.  So why take him at all in that instance?  GM's without a lot of years served in this league know that investing a 1st round pick in a QB and having it fail is the easiest way to lose your job.  

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Well I find it funny that people on one had pass off draft resources as being risky and not that important vs the known QB

then in the next breath they tell me we are going to build a great roster to complement the Qb  with all our draft picks.

2 things are simultaneously true:

1. You can't expect to be a perennial contender without a legitimate QB in this league.
2. You also have to draft well at the other positions to expand your championship window.  

But only the teams with legitimate QB's can afford to miss on a fairly high % of their picks and still contend.  Teams without a QB have very little margin for error with their picks.  You need Pro Bowlers all over the place, and even then, you need a miracle to win a title and can't expect to contend for long.  

Fixing the 1st issue makes the 2nd part a little less necessary.  You can hide some of your flaws and win a lot of games through free agency and trades when you have a QB.  You can't hide a bad QB, at least not for long.  And meanwhile, its harder to evaluate QB prospects than it is to evaluate players at any other position.  Hence why the hit rate in the draft is so low at QB.  And finding a QB who is ever even 80 % as good as Watson in the draft is very unlikely.  

[MykePM]

3 hours ago, K_O_Brien said:

 

This “news” doesn’t make me happy, but I’m not ready to go full-on George Michael Bluth either.  Even if Fowler’s statement wasn’t just speculation and is more true than the other reports saying that Watson would like to come here, I still don’t think it rules us out (assuming the Texans decide to trade him).  Here’s how it plays out (hypothetically):

1. The Jets can still put the best offer on the table, and do. 
2. The Texans want our offer, and allow us to talk to Watson

If Watson gets on a call with Coach Saleh, (who he reportedly really likes - but regardless), my money is on Saleh to not only convince Deshaun to come here, but to have him willing to run through a brick wall to do so.

 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, MykePM said:

This “news” doesn’t make me happy, but I’m not ready to go full-on George Michael Bluth either.  Even if Fowler’s statement wasn’t just speculation and is more true than the other reports saying that Watson would like to come here, I still don’t think it rules us out (assuming the Texans decide to trade him. Here’s how it plays out (hypothetically):

1. The Jets can still put the best offer on the table, and do. 
2. The Texans want our offer, and allow us to talk to Watson

If Watson gets on a call with Coach Saleh, (who he reportedly really likes - but regardless), my money is on Saleh to not only convince Deshaun to come here, but to have him willing to run through a brick wall to do so.

 

Yep.  Watson's no-trade clause is powerful, but doesn't entirely determine where he can go.  If the Broncos and 49ers can't come close to the package of picks the Jets are willing to give, the Texans can ultimately end up telling Watson "it's either Houston or New York", and Watson can make a decision off that. 

As long as he is willing to entertain the Jets as an option and wouldn't flat-out refuse to play here, we're in the hunt.  

And that assumes this report is true, which it may not be.  The Jets will be reported to be low on Watson's list until they aren't, and will look a lot better if his options end up limited.

[Ghost420]

2 hours ago, Wit said:

Ok so let me get this straight. He only wants to go to teams that will

be super bowl contenders next year snd have no draft Capitol. Got it. 

Imagine thinking the broncos are any where near a contender. 

[MykePM]

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sure.  But that would suggest the Jets don't actually view Fields a legitimate franchise QB candidate.  So why take him at all in that instance?  GM's without a lot of years served in this league know that investing a 1st round pick in a QB and having it fail is the easiest way to lose your job.  

It isn’t that cut and dried.  There are a lot of factors for JD to weigh in our particular circumstances, like:

1. Is the probability that Fields can be a franchise QB greater than the probability that Sam can still turn into one?

2. Even if they like Fields chances better, is what you could get back in a trade for #2 more significant than the gap between Fields and Sam?

3. Even if they like Sam chances better, is what you can get back in a trade for Sam plus the financial benefit of Fields’ rookie contract a better deal for the team?

The Jets believing that they have someone who could still be a franchise QB already on the team changes the “If Fields can be a franchise QB, we must get him” rule and brings other factors into play.  This is why we both want to land Deshaun Watson - so we can have a proven franchise QB instead of playing around with all of these maybes.

And regarding your last point, if Joe Douglas is deliberately avoiding options that might put his job at risk, we might as well bring Maccagnan back.