Report: Seahawks management not happy with Russell Wilson

[Maxman]

5 hours ago, yocousinvinny said:

Let the toxicity sweep through the organization. That 2021 pick is all that matters to me oh and depriving Jamal of success. 

Get rid of Russ and the picks headed the Jets way will be looking better and better.

[Biggs]

Seattle won the SB with an amazing D and a great running game.  Wilson was very good but the reality is the two SB teams ranked 26th and 27th in passing yards and 4th and 1st in rushing yards.  They also ranked No. 1 in defense both years.  

Very good QB who threw a pick on the 1 yard line with a SB victory in hand on the last play of the game.  He gets way too much credit for Seattle's success.  

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Seattle won the SB with an amazing D and a great running game.  Wilson was very good but the reality is the two SB teams ranked 26th and 27th in passing yards and 4th and 1st in rushing yards.  They also ranked No. 1 in defense both years.  

Very good QB who threw a pick on the 1 yard line with a SB victory in hand on the last play of the game.  He gets way too much credit for Seattle's success.  

Meh.  I think he gets an appropriate amount of credit.  The team has continued to win even with the great running game and Legion of Boom long gone.  8 of his 9 years in the league the team has won 10+ games.  He's the common denominator.  And Pete Carroll's HC record with Seattle was 14-18 prior to Wilson's arrival on the scene.

Meanwhile, even in those ground & pound years, this was how Wilson performed:

• 2012:  11-5 record, 26/10 TD:INT ratio, 64.1 % completions, 7.9 Yards per Attempt
• 2013:  13-3, 26/9, 63.1 %, 8.2
• 2014:  12-4, 20/7, 63.1 %, 7.7

He wasn't exactly Mark Sanchez-ing it back there.  He was putting up numbers comparable to the ones he puts up to this day, except now he's throwing a lot more.  And those rookie year numbers were absurdly good.  Then in years 2 and 3 of his career he went to the Super Bowl.  Insanely impressive no matter what circumstances he got put into.  He had 2 Super Bowl appearances in the same number of years in the league that Sam Darnold has been the Jets QB.   Keep in mind that the team went 7-9 the year before Wilson arrived, by the way.  

[undertow]

17 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Seattle won the SB with an amazing D and a great running game.  Wilson was very good but the reality is the two SB teams ranked 26th and 27th in passing yards and 4th and 1st in rushing yards.  They also ranked No. 1 in defense both years.  

Very good QB who threw a pick on the 1 yard line with a SB victory in hand on the last play of the game.  He gets way too much credit for Seattle's success.  

I look at Wilson as having almost two careers.  He was mostly a game manager during the Legion Of Boom SB years but after that group was broken up he's pretty much carried the team and kept them afloat.  The GM and coach had good early years evaluating players and drafting but have been bad for over 5 years now.  The team really isn't that talented anymore aside from Wilson, Adams, and a few WRs.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, undertow said:

I look at Wilson as having almost two careers.  He was mostly a game manager during the Legion Of Boom SB years but after that group was broken up he's pretty much carried the team and kept them afloat.  The GM and coach had good early years evaluating players and drafting but have been bad for over 5 years now.  The team really isn't that talented anymore aside from Wilson, Adams, and a few WRs.

72 passing TDs (+ 11 rushing TDs) over his first 3 seasons in the league, the prime LOB years.  Helluva game manager!

[Biggs]

19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Meh.  I think he gets an appropriate amount of credit.  The team has continued to win even with the great running game and Legion of Boom long gone.  8 of his 9 years in the league the team has won 10+ games.  He's the common denominator.  And Pete Carroll's HC record with Seattle was 14-18 prior to Wilson's arrival on the scene.

Meanwhile, even in those ground & pound years, this was how Wilson performed:

• 2012:  11-5 record, 26/10 TD:INT ratio, 64.1 % completions, 7.9 Yards per Attempt
• 2013:  13-3, 26/9, 63.1 %, 8.2
• 2014:  12-4, 20/7, 63.1 %, 7.7

He wasn't exactly Mark Sanchez-ing it back there.  He was putting up numbers comparable to the ones he puts up to this day, except now he's throwing a lot more.  And those rookie year numbers were absurdly good.  Then in years 2 and 3 of his career he went to the Super Bowl. Insanely impressive no matter what circumstances he got put into. Keep in mind that the team went 7-9 the year before he arrived, by the way.  

Mark Sanchez went to the AFC Championship game in year 1 and 2.  The Seahawks had 3 insanely good drafts around Wilson.  The reality is when Russ was signed for big money and they stopped having killer drafts Seattle has been good but not close to sniffing a SB.  

Bobby Wagner and Darrel Revis might well have carried Sanchez to a SB.  Sherman, Bobby Wagner and Lynch behind an incredible OL did. 

He's a great QB but he's not carrying a team to the SB and he will never take a discount like TB.

[undertow]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

72 passing TDs (+ 11 rushing TDs) over his first 3 seasons in the league, the prime LOB years.  Helluva game manager!

Yeah great game manager those years.  But the team was lead by the defense and Lynch running the ball.

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Mark Sanchez went to the AFC Championship game in year 1 and 2.  The Seahawks had 3 insanely good drafts around Wilson.  The reality is when Russ was signed for big money and they stopped having killer drafts Seattle has been good but not close to sniffing a SB.  

Bobby Wagner and Darrel Revis might well have carried Sanchez to a SB.  Sherman, Bobby Wagner and Lynch behind an incredible OL did. 

He's a great QB but he's not carrying a team to the SB and he will never take a discount like TB.

So when the Seahawks went 12-4 this past season, who was responsible for that?  Because only one of those 3 guys you listed are still there, and there was nothing impressive that Seattle did in 2020 that didn't involve the passing game.

Sounds like Wilson "carried" the team.  Maybe not to the Super Bowl, but certainly to a division title before losing to a team with a vastly superior roster.

And you're fooling yourself if you didn't think Brady was getting money under the table to circumvent the cap.  TB12 was a money laundering scheme.  No QB in his prime years is taking less in an effort to win.  Nobody. 

[Fantasy Island]

5 hours ago, Savage69 said:

If they don't like Wilson talking wait till jappering  Jamal starts whining.. Maybe a Wilson/Jamal trade in a package deal to the Cowboys..LOL

Jamal will love playing for Detroit. Fingers crossed.

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, undertow said:

Yeah great game manager those years.  But the team was lead by the defense and Lynch running the ball.

Sure.  And then the training wheels came off and he became truly elite, which Biggs isn't giving him much credit for doing.  Wilson becoming an elite QB is exactly what you need when you're no longer able to surround your franchise guy with Pro Bowlers across the roster.  Every team hopes their QB takes that next step and carries the team to success. 

No, they didn't get back to the Super Bowl since the LOB (they haven't been past the Divisional Round, in fact), and that's certainly a reasonable strike against Wilson.  But they're always in the hunt.  They've won 2 division titles since the LOB and have never finished below 2nd in a tough division while Wilson has been there.  The year before Wilson arrived, Seattle was a 7-9 team and finished in 3rd place.

[undertow]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sure.  And then the training wheels came off and he became truly elite, which Biggs isn't giving him much credit for doing.  Wilson becoming an elite QB is exactly what you need when you're no longer able to surround your franchise guy with Pro Bowlers across the roster.  Every team hopes their QB takes that next step and carries the team to success. 

No, they didn't get back to the Super Bowl since the LOB (they haven't been past the Divisional Round, in fact), and that's certainly a reasonable strike against Wilson.  But they're always in the hunt.  They've won 2 division titles since the LOB and have never finished below 2nd in a tough division while Wilson has been there.  The year before Wilson arrived, Seattle was a 7-9 team and finished in 3rd place.

I agree 100 percent he's a top 5 player in the league right now.  I think the GM and the coach are the overrated ones.

[Biggs]

5 minutes ago, undertow said:

Yeah great game manager those years.  But the team was lead by the defense and Lynch running the ball.

The year the actually won the SB He was an excellent game manager.  The year they lost the SB he had a 4INT game in the NFC Championship game.  Lynch ran for 157 yards.  The Seattle d overcame 5 turnovers from the O.  In the SB that year Lynch ran for over 100 and Wilson threw a pick on the 1 yard line to loss the game.  Wilson in the playoffs has 6 games with under a 60% completion rate and he hasn't been nearly as careful with the football.

He's a terrific QB and wins but he's game puts a lot of punishment on him and he breaks down late in the season.  The two years they went to the SB they were carried by a historically good D and running game.  

Personally I have never been a fan of midget QB's.  Against really good Defenses that have size and pressure up the middle they are forced into a sideline game or holding the ball long enough for a play to develop.  I don't think it's a great formula for winning against good teams in the playoffs. 

I would not give up the store for a guy who has taken that kind of punishment going forward.  He needs a really good team around him.  Seattle has had a top 10 D most of the time he has been there.  People act like it's a trash team.  They still have a lot of talent on both sides of the ball. 

What a lot of people miss about Tom Brady is he can see the field and get the ball out from sideline to sideline an almost every play.  He has angles to work with that a guy like Wilson doesn't have. 

[Biggs]

22 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So when the Seahawks went 12-4 this past season, who was responsible for that?  Because only one of those 3 guys you listed are still there, and there was nothing impressive that Seattle did in 2020 that didn't involve the passing game.

Sounds like Wilson "carried" the team.  Maybe not to the Super Bowl, but certainly to a division title before losing to a team with a vastly superior roster.

And you're fooling yourself if you didn't think Brady was getting money under the table to circumvent the cap.  TB12 was a money laundering scheme.  No QB in his prime years is taking less in an effort to win.  Nobody. 

The Rams have 2 all pro's on D and Seattle has better receivers and a better QB.  Not vastly superior at all.  The big difference in that game is Wilson, who is miles better than Goff sucked.  He went 11 for 27 for 174 yards that's with Chris Carson rushing for 77 yards on 16 carries.  Metcalf and Lockett are better than the Rams WR.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, JiF said:

This is like being mad at your dog for chewing up your favorite hat.  You're mad and you let him know it, 20 minutes later he's licking your face and you're telling him how much you love him.

Wilson aint going nowhere.  They were 12-4 and won the division.  Their offense was dominant the first half of the season.  And they've invested in the offense plenty; they've taken G's in the 1st, C's in the 2nd, RB's in the 1st, WR's in the 2nd....Brown and Ogehbi are both former 1st round picks on the OL and picked up a potential HOF'er in Iupati.  

They love each other.

 

I think it’s more that, since the admirable job of building a great defense a decade ago, they suck at drafting. If trading two first round picks - TWO!! - for a box safety, whose main value comes at the expense of leaving your secondary short a man, isn’t a neon sign announcement that they suck at drafting then I don’t know what is. 

We all know the draft is an inexact science to say the least, but really they can’t draft for crap. Since absolutely crushing it in the 2010 & 2012 drafts, with Richard Sherman in between in 2011 - 3 drafts that justifiably carried them for years - look at their 1st & 2nd round picks (and traded players for picks) since then. Starting with their 2013 first rounder, traded with a 7th and the following year’s 3rd rounder, for Percy Harvin. That veteran pickup - and rather large contract - was in between sizable deals for Housyomama and Sidney Rice. Yecch. 

It’s enough to make Idzik & Maccagnan blush.

There are some hits like Metcalf & Lockett since then, no doubt, but they’ve made like 80 draft picks and even a child with internet access could hit on more than a handful of players. Plus when they did hit on a late pick - e.g. Carson in the 7th round - they basically erased the value by drafting another RB in round 1 who’d then serve as a backup. A smart FO would have traded one of them after Carson’s first 1100-yard season, for a high pick that could/should have been used to draft a starter at another position, instead of relegating a would-be starting RB to a backup/support role. Now Carson’s a UFA, Hyde is a UFA, and Penny’s value is so low they have to find or re-sign another RB to start over him even if he could be the starter. 

And yes, that OL. Just because they’re making picks for the OL doesn’t mean they’re doing a good job of it. I wish we had the “problem” that is Russell Wilson. 

[Jetsfan80]

57 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The Rams have 2 all pro's on D and Seattle has better receivers and a better QB.  Not vastly superior at all.  The big difference in that game is Wilson, who is miles better than Goff sucked.  He went 11 for 27 for 174 yards that's with Chris Carson rushing for 77 yards on 16 carries.  Metcalf and Lockett are better than the Rams WR.

2 all-Pros who are 2 of the best in the game at what they do.  Donald is unlike any defensive force in the game today.  You're short-changing their talent.  Wilson had a rough game because LAR's defense is that good.  The rest of the team couldn't pick him up, like they need to be able to do from time to time.  He carried them to 12 wins and gets little credit for that from you, but he gets the blame placed all on him for that postseason loss?  Come on.

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

2 all-Pros who are 2 of the best in the game at what they do.  Donald is unlike any defensive force in the game today.  You're short-changing their talent.  Wilson had a rough game because LAR's defense is that good.  The rest of the team couldn't pick him up, like they need to be able to do from time to time.  He carried them to 12 wins and gets little credit for that from you, but he gets the blame placed all on him for that postseason loss?  Come on.

You act like Lockett and Metcalf are trash.  They are miles better than the WR on the Rams.  FYI Bobby Wagner is a great defensive player, not good great.  Adams was an 1st team all pro for several years who was traded for 2 1's.  Diggs made the pro bowl this year.  

The Rams great D gave up 32 to Rodgers the next week.  Buffalo put up 35 on them this year.  The Dolphins and Cardinals put up 28 in wins against them this year.  The NY Jets, one of the worst teams in football put up 23 on them.  The Rams have a real good D.  It's not a D that keeps teams from scoring points and makes elite QB's look like dog sh*t.  Wilson looked like dog sh*t in that game.

I love RW, he's a great QB but at his age with his game, I'm not sold he's the guy to lead us in a rebuild if the goal is to win a SB.  He wears down and this year it was evident late in the season.

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, Biggs said:

You act like Lockett and Metcalf are trash.  They are miles better than the WR on the Rams.  FYI Bobby Wagner is a great defensive player, not good great.  Adams was an 1st team all pro for several years who was traded for 2 1's.  Diggs made the pro bowl this year.  

The Rams great D gave up 32 to Rodgers the next week.  Buffalo put up 35 on them this year.  The Dolphins and Cardinals put up 28 in wins against them this year.  The NY Jets, one of the worst teams in football put up 23 on them.  The Rams have a real good D.  It's not a D that keeps teams from scoring points and makes elite QB's look like dog sh*t.  Wilson looked like dog sh*t in that game.

I love RW, he's a great QB but at his age with his game, I'm not sold he's the guy to lead us in a rebuild if the goal is to win a SB.  He wears down and this year it was evident late in the season.

 

Quick, name 3 Seattle WR's from 2012-2018 without looking it up.

And Lockett is meh.  Stop it.

Also, I'm not looking for the Jets to acquire Wilson.  I mean, I'd take it for sure, but I want Watson.  But mostly I want to see Wilson off of Seattle so they can suck forever from now on, hand us a high pick in the process, and then I can come back to this thread and laugh, because Wilson made the Seahawks as much or more than the LOB and Marshawn Lynch.

[Biggs]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Quick, name 3 Seattle WR's from 2012-2018 without looking it up.

And Lockett is meh.  Stop it.

Also, I'm not looking for the Jets to acquire Wilson.  I mean, I'd take it for sure, but I want Watson.  But mostly I want to see Wilson off of Seattle so they can suck forever from now on, hand us a high pick in the process, and then I can come back to this thread and laugh, because Wilson made the Seahawks as much or more than the LOB and Marshawn Lynch.

Lockett isn't meh.  He's had Lockett and Metcalf or Lockett and Balwin was a pretty good WR for years.  He also had Baldwin with Kearse and Graham at TE.

[jetstream23]

10 hours ago, mrcoops said:

 

Interesting...

In the (very) unlikely event that the Seahawks decide to trade Wilson, what would it cost to get him?

Allegedly, the Seahawks considered trading him to Cleveland for the #1 pick in 2018 with the intention of drafting Josh Allen as his replacement.

Personally, I'd happily send the #2 pick to Seattle for a QB of Wilson's calibre. He's been a great QB since day 1, he continues to play at an elite level at age 32, seems to be indestructible and wants to play until he's 45.

 

I'm not disagreeing with the idea or hammering this post, but I need to vent simply about the idea of having to go back and pay a whole lot more for a guy we should have drafted in the first place when we had the chance.  It just drives me nuts.

Let's trade for Russell Wilson..... when we could/should have just drafted him when Terry Bradway pounded the table for him.

Let's trade for Deshaun Watson..... when we could/should have just drafted him but Maccagnan was still marinating Bryce Petty behind guys like Fitzpatrick and McCown.

[jetstream23]

I have to say, the idea of trading the #2 and Darnold (and probably other things) to Seattle for Russell Wilson is worth it just to see the Jamal Adams' reaction when Darnold high-fives Russ as they pass each other going in/out of the building.

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Lockett isn't meh.  He's had Lockett and Metcalf or Lockett and Balwin was a pretty good WR for years.  He also had Baldwin with Kearse and Graham at TE.

He's a pretty good WR2 who Wilson makes look like a WR1.  Just like Wilson did with Doug Baldwin.  Lockett is very much meh.  Until Metcalf, Wilson hasn't really had a true WR1.  He's made his pretty good WR's look great for nearly a decade.  

Wilson is neither overrated nor underrated.  He's elite and has a HOF case.  He really has nothing to prove.

[32EBoozer]

46 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

I'm not disagreeing with the idea or hammering this post, but I need to vent simply about the idea of having to go back and pay a whole lot more for a guy we should have drafted in the first place when we had the chance.  It just drives me nuts.

Let's trade for Russell Wilson..... when we could/should have just drafted him when Terry Bradway pounded the table for him.

Let's trade for Deshaun Watson..... when we could/should have just drafted him but Maccagnan was still marinating Bryce Petty behind guys like Fitzpatrick and McCown.

Consumer Report tells me to buy the Subaru becaus its the best value, durable and performs well. I listen to @SAR I and go with the BMW. Well the BMW ends up underperforming and costing me a lot of money 'cause it's always in the shop! Time comes around for a new car and I refuse to buy the Subaru because I had the chance to buy it before and out of spite I choose to buy another BMW?

Just trying to wrap my head around what you're saying.

 

There's a shadow hanging over me Oh, yesterday came suddenly

[UntouchableCrew]

9 hours ago, Mo Lew said:

Could the Texans/Seahawks swap qbs. Ugh that would suck. 

Wilson is a big time Christian. Might fit in with the cults in H-town.

[32EBoozer]

9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Wilson is a big time Christian. Might fit in with the cults in H-town.

Why are you considered to be in a cult if you’re a Christian? Go walk through the Lincoln Memorial or the Jefferson Memorial and throughout the capital building. It was what  this country was founded upon.… That all men were created equal by their Creator.  The issues this country is facing  in many  ways correlate to the move towards Agnosticism

[jetstream23]

43 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Consumer Report tells me to buy the Subaru becaus its the best value, durable and performs well. I listen to @SAR I and go with the BMW. Well the BMW ends up underperforming and costing me a lot of money 'cause it's always in the shop! Time comes around for a new car and I refuse to buy the Subaru because I had the chance to buy it before and out of spite I choose to buy another BMW?

Just trying to wrap my head around what you're saying.

 

There's a shadow hanging over me Oh, yesterday came suddenly

 

Did you see the first sentence I wrote?  I'm not disagreeing with the idea but the irony shouldn't be lost on anyone.

Maybe this will help.... You could have bought stock in Gamestop over the summer for about $5.  You didn't.  You then decide to buy it in January for $300 because you missed out and it seems valuable.  There is a sense of missed opportunity or chasing bad decisions with big money and multiple 1st round draft picks to make up for past errors.  That was my only point.

Gamestop is now at $50. lol

 

[32EBoozer]

3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Did you see the first sentence I wrote?  I'm not disagreeing with the idea but the irony shouldn't be lost on anyone.

Maybe this will help.... You could have bought stock in Gamestop over the summer for about $5.  You didn't.  You then decide to buy it in January for $300 because you missed out and it seems valuable.  There is a sense of missed opportunity or chasing bad decisions with big money and multiple 1st round draft picks to make up for past errors.  That was my only point.

Gamestop is now at $50. lol

 

Game stop is still up near $48 from where it was trading prior to the Reddit/robinhood play. 
Watson past, present &future. There’s no looking back... only ahead. 

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

Consumer Report tells me to buy the Subaru becaus its the best value, durable and performs well. I listen to @SAR I and go with the BMW. Well the BMW ends up underperforming and costing me a lot of money 'cause it's always in the shop! Time comes around for a new car and I refuse to buy the Subaru because I had the chance to buy it before and out of spite I choose to buy another BMW?

Just trying to wrap my head around what you're saying.

Because I lease perpetually I am always in a new BMW and its always covered by warranty.  I haven't paid a dime towards automobile maintenance since 2003.  Not a wiper blade, not an oil change.

SAR I

[UntouchableCrew]

15 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Why are you considered to be in a cult if you’re a Christian? Go walk through the Lincoln Memorial or the Jefferson Memorial and throughout the capital building. It was what  this country was founded upon.… That all men were created equal by their Creator.  The issues this country is facing  in many  ways correlate to the move towards Agnosticism

You're not in a cult if you're Christian. Heck, I'm technically Christian -- baptised, confirmed, etc.

But the type of evangelical Christian we're talking about is pretty cult like and the purging of any non-like minded people from the Texans org is pretty iffy stuff.

And frankly, I think bigots hiding behind the bible and picking and choosing which bible verses justify their totally non-religious beliefs is a much bigger problem than agnosticism.

[32EBoozer]

11 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

But the type of evangelical Christian we're talking about is pretty cult like and the purging of any non-like minded people from the Texans org is pretty iffy stuff.

You take a couple of Twitter posts and draw up an entire scenario on so little information. Rootes resigned because he felt his GM input was not heeded. You have developed some narrative that has no basis just your assumptions.  

 

15 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Wilson is a big time Christian. Might fit in with the cults in H-town.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Morman) doctrine is not anywhere near the teachings found in the NT. Trust me on this one. If the Texans look to replace DW with Wilson it won’t be based on a similar belief system than Easterby. 

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

You take a couple of Twitter posts and draw up an entire scenario on so little information. Rootes resigned because he felt his GM input was not heeded. You have developed some narrative that has no basis just your assumptions.  

Or I'm paying attention and you're not. 

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Morman) doctrine is not anywhere near the teachings found in the NT. Trust me on this one. If the Texans look to replace DW with Wilson it won’t be based on a similar belief system than Easterby. 

Russell Wilson isn't Mormon as far as I know so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[32EBoozer]

12 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Or I'm paying attention and you're not. 

Russell Wilson isn't Mormon as far as I know so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I thought you were talking about BYU Wilson. My bad. 

[Philc1]

I used to live in Seattle.  Wilson is a god in that city.  The riots that would happen if they trade him would make last summer look like child’s play

[Philc1]

On 2/11/2021 at 9:37 PM, Biggs said:

Lockett isn't meh.  He's had Lockett and Metcalf or Lockett and Balwin was a pretty good WR for years.  He also had Baldwin with Kearse and Graham at TE.

The Seahawks offensive line is terrible and their defense can’t stop Hackenberg 

Wilson is mad they traded multiple high draft picks for an overrated box safety who plays on twitter all day