Stat Based NFL Comps: Zach Wilson vs Justin Fields

[dcJet]

I'd take either of these two.  

Don't complicate it. 

We need a QB.  There are two worthy and available.  Take one.

 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Followed by—

 

I mean, it’s subjective nonsense you can’t accurately quantify.  It’s what PFF does and it’s consistently wrong. 

[dcJet]

I don't like the trade down idea.  

We're in a perfect position to take a very good prospect now.

Next year, after our usual "dead-coach-bounce, we'll be back to picking in the late teens.

[RedBeardedSavage]

28 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Hey Red, if we do stick with Darnold an load up on talent do you see               Owusu-Koramoh being there @ 23? I’m a big fan

 I got no idea, hombre. But I'd be happy with that pick @ 23 too.

[Snell41]

I’m gonna do this board a favor and give the best analysis of Fields and Wilson.

Fields-garbage
Wilson-hot garbage

The end.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Shockwave]

Have more time now. Might as well throw the other PFF comparisons here. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-byu-zach-wilson-ohio-state-justin-fields-qb2-college-football

2021 NFL Draft: BYU's Zach Wilson or Ohio State's Justin Fields as QB2?

 

Oct 24, 2020; Provo, UT, USA; BYU quarterback Zach Wilson (1) looks down field in the first half during an NCAA college football game against Texas State Saturday, Oct. 24, 2020, in Provo, Utah. Mandatory Credit: Rick Bowmer/Pool Photo-USA TODAY NETWORK

By Michael Renner
Dec 23, 2020

After the New York Jets‘ improbable victory over the Los Angeles Rams, the 2021 NFL draft landscape shifted drastically. Everyone and their mother knows Trevor Lawrence is going No. 1 overall — regardless of who is picking in that slot. Now with the Jets slated to pick second, however, the questions become: Who is the QB2, and are they good enough for the Jets to give up on Sam Darnold?

The latter part is asinine, in my opinion. Although it will be framed as such, drafting another quarterback isn’t “giving up” on a current one. With how valuable the quarterback position is, the Jets can’t leave it up solely to the possibility that Darnold takes a massive leap forward (and then has to be paid as such). A franchise quarterback on a rookie deal is the single hottest commodity in football, and if a team is in a position to find one, they should do it.

The first part of the question is more difficult to assess. Ohio State’s Justin Fields has been the de facto QB2 ever since high school. He and Lawrence were part of the greatest quarterback recruiting class of all time; both Fields and Lawrence are still the third- and second-highest rated quarterback recruits, respectively, in 247Sports history (Vince Young being No. 1).

That was, until this fall. Fields has still displayed the outstanding accuracy and mobility he’s known for, but he's also already thrown out two stinkers against Indiana and Northwestern. Zach Wilson, on the other hand, came back from an injury-plagued 2019 (shoulder and hand) to light college football on fire this season, capped off by a dominant win over UCF last night. His lowest passing grade all year was a 75.4 mark against Houston … and he still went for 400 yards in the game.

Is tearing up a bunch of Group of Five defenses good enough to get Wilson into a Jets jersey? Or should the Jets trust the off-the-charts production we’ve seen from Fields in his Ohio State career? Let’s go trait for trait to find an answer.

 

ARM STRENGTH

While we don’t have any arm strength metrics here at PFF (yet), a good way to gauge how live an arm a quarterback possesses is by watching some of their farthest throws. My back-of-the-napkin math (and our ball placement charting) puts this as the longest throw of Fields’ college career:

 

And this is the longest throw of Wilson’s career:

Fields' toss traveled in the neighborhood of 60 yards, while Wilson’s was closer to 65. Fields' throw was a little more on a line, though, meaning he’s got more juice than that if he puts some air on it. When reviewing the rest of their tape, both have more than enough pop in their right arms for my liking. If I had to lean one way, I’d go Wilson because of his ability to deliver strikes more often without his feet set, but this one is too close to pick out a serious advantage one way or the other.

Advantage: Push

ACCURACY

These may very well be the two most accurate quarterbacks in the draft class. Fields ranks second in the country with only 12.0% of his passes deemed uncatchably off-target, while Wilson's 13.4% rate isn’t far behind in fifth. When we limit it to only throws targeted 10-plus yards downfield, those standings flip; Wilson leads the country at 18.2%, and Fields sits fourth at 22.4%. Basically, these guys aren’t missing a lot.

If you want to break any sort of tie between the two, Fields has better accuracy numbers when including 2019. But the issues Wilson was dealing with that season — shoulder and hand injuries — are precisely the kind of injuries that would adversely affect accuracy. You’re not going to complain about the ball placement each brings to the table.

Advantage: Push

DECISION-MAKING/TIMING/ANTICIPATION

Alright, it’s time to stop pushing. These traits all tend to go hand in hand, so I grouped them together. Let’s call them “offensive mastery.” Who does the best job of getting the ball where it needs to go and timing when it needs to go there?

Both signal-callers have been exceptional at protecting the football. Since the start of 2019, Wilson has only 19 turnover-worthy plays on 740 dropbacks, while Fields has 17 turnover-worthy plays on 684 dropbacks. You won’t find much difference in this regard.

The biggest distinction between them lies within their timing and anticipation. While it shows up again and again on their respective tapes, I can’t give you dozens of examples here to prove that point. One stat that sums it up very succinctly is how both deal with blitzes.

With no blitz this season, Wilson’s average time to throw is 2.85 seconds (246 dropbacks) and Fields’ is 3.07 seconds (107 dropbacks). When blitzed, Wilson’s average time to throw predictably drops to 2.74 seconds (119 dropbacks) and Fields' somehow increases to 3.21 seconds (103 dropbacks). That’s an eternity — and it's not exactly what you want to see from a top quarterback prospect.

Fields is afforded a great deal of leeway with the Ohio State offensive line, his mobility and the talented receiving corps, but that’s not going to fly at the next level. The highest average time to throw of any NFL quarterback all season against the blitz is Josh Allen at 2.80 seconds. Fields simply has to speed up.

Advantage: Wilson

POCKET PRESENCE

It’s important to note that Fields and Wilson have played behind elite offensive lines in their career. There’s no Daniel Jones at Duke situation here, as each of Fields and Wilson was throwing out of cavernous pockets more often than not. Wilson has been under pressure 22.2% of the time this season, and Fields has seen pressure on 29.9% of the time.

While both are terrific at maneuvering the pocket when faced with pressure, Fields’ lethargic decision making also translates to him bringing undue pressure onto himself. On 227 dropbacks in six games, Fields himself has been charged with 16 pressures and five sacks. Wilson is no angel with his propensity to hold the ball, either, but he’s been charged with only 10 pressures — including five sacks — on 389 dropbacks.

Even when things were arguably going better for Fields in 2019, this was an issue. He was charged with 11 sacks on 457 dropbacks. Meanwhile, Fields has converted pressure to sacks 24.1% of the time over the past two seasons. That figure is 16.8% for Wilson. Even though that's not a massive gap, the concerning trend is that Fields’ figure in 2020 alone is 28.6% while Wilson’s is 12.3%. Fields stagnating in this regard as Wilson continues to show improvement makes this an easy choice.

Advantage: Wilson

RUSHING ABILITY

This one is not particularly close. Wilson can be an add-on in the run game — and has averaged over two designed runs a game for BYU this season — but he’s not going to force defenses to prepare for his legs. Fields, on the other hand, can be a weapon. At 6-foot-3, 228 pounds, the Ohio State signal-caller is a poor man’s Cam Newton with his running style.

On only 49 carries this season, Fields has broken 18 tackles. That number was 20 on 114 carries last season. For his career, he has averaged 5.6 yards per designed run. I fully expect that to be a big part of his game in the NFL.

Advantage: Fields

PLAYS OUT OF STRUCTURE

Winning from the pocket is still king, yet the ability for a quarterback to create on their own has grown en vogue over the past few years with the rise of Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson into the elite tier of quarterbacks. Both Fields and Wilson tick this box in a big way. Fields often does his damage as a runner, where he’s difficult to bring down in the pocket or in space.

Wilson is uniquely capable of special throws outside the pocket and on the move. His 87.5 passing grade outside the pocket this season trails only Oklahoma’s Spencer Rattler, and those are the only two quarterbacks over 80.0 in that regard. Throws like the one below have become Wilson’s calling card.

 

This is a strength for both, but Wilson is special outside of structure.

Advantage: Wilson

BOTTOM LINE

With the grading so exceptional between the two, there’s no performance gap to lean on in this evaluation. The difference is purely going to be in the eye of the beholder in terms of which traits one covets most.

That being said, the only way I’d go Fields over Wilson is if I had an offensive coordinator who needed a rushing threat at the quarterback position. Otherwise, Fields' issues with holding onto the ball combined with Wilson’s elite off-platform ability arm talent ultimately gives the BYU quarterback the nod.

QB2: Wilson

 

[Shockwave]

Last one here for the Justin Fields fans. I think pretty fair points all around. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-projecting-ohio-state-qb-justin-fields

Quote

2021 NFL Draft: Projecting Ohio State QB Justin Fields' impact as an NFL player

 

Jan 11, 2021; Miami Gardens, Florida, USA; Ohio State Buckeyes quarterback Justin Fields (1) against the Alabama Crimson Tide in the 2021 CFP National Championship Game. Mandatory Credit: Mark J. Rebilas-USA TODAY Sports

By Eric Eager
Feb 9, 2021

Now that the unprecedented 2020 NFL season is over, we get to look forward to the offseason. 

While the veteran quarterback movement this offseason could be unlike anything we've seen since the dawn of free agency, the story is and should be on the 2021 NFL Draft. Trevor Lawrence is in all likelihood the top pick and is priced at -5000 on DraftKings Sportsbook to go No. 1 overall in the draft.

It’s a little less certain after that, as Zach Wilson’s impressive final year at BYU has vaulted him into the conversation as the second pick just a year after Justin Fields’ impressive showing as Ohio State’s quarterback put him firmly in that spot. 

The 2020 college season was awkward for Fields and the Buckeyes, as the Big 10 season was canceled in late July, only to be resuscitated by late October, giving Fields five regular-season games — along with three postseason games — to work with.

[Editor's Note: PFF's new college-to-pro projection system is powered by AWS machine learning capabilities.]

The returns were up and down for Fields in his 578 snaps. He earned a 90.0-plus passing grade in each of his first three starts but then threw three interceptions in a game where Indiana almost beat them as three-touchdown underdogs. 

After an OK performance against Michigan State, Fields stunk it up in the 2020 Big 10 Championship Game, earning just a 55.4 passing grade while completing fewer than 45% of his passes, throwing two interceptions and averaging 4.2 yards per attempt. It was after this game that Wilson had a brilliant performance against UCF in his bowl game, leapfrogging Fields for the second spot. 

Then, despite a rib injury that would have knocked most quarterbacks out, Fields’ Buckeyes slaughtered Lawrence’s Clemson Tigers in the College Football Playoff Semifinal, with Fields earning a 94.6 PFF passing grade and throwing six touchdowns. His PFF grade (82.9) was a lot better than his statistics in the championship game loss to Alabama, which ended his college career and left Fields with a 92.0-plus PFF passing grade in both of his seasons as a starter.

So why is he viewed as the third-best prospect in this class, given everything we’ve seen? For one, there’s certainly some selection bias between the data of Wilson and Fields. Because Fields played so well against Clemson, he had to play against Alabama in his last game. Such data is not available for Wilson, who played one of the easier college football schedules in 2020. So, while Fields’ warts were apparent, they don’t serve as proof that Wilson has no such shortfalls.

However, there is a stark difference in arm strength between Wilson and Fields. There’s also the fact that Fields holds the ball longer against the blitz than not against the blitz, which suggests some issues with processing that need to be ironed out at the next level.

 

Alas, below we look at Fields using our college-to-pro projection system, which looks at how a player graded in a number of different categories and projects their first five years of NFL play under varying conditions. First, here’s what Fields’ projections look like if he was used the exact same way in the NFL as he was at OSU:

 

Justin Fields' projected first five seasons in the same context as his college career.

The comps for his median projection here include some interesting names: Baker Mayfield, Ryan Tannehill and Carson Wentz. 

If we look at his projection under a league-average usage of play-action, rollouts and things like pressure rates and depth of target:

Justin Fields' projected first five seasons in a league-average context.

Here, a league-average context tends to improve Fields’ projection, meaning that he was possibly used poorly at Ohio State vis a vis as a projection onto his NFL career. 

If we gave him cushier circumstances, like lower pressure rates, higher play-action rates and higher rates of throws past the sticks:

Justin Fields' projected first five seasons in a context with a high play-action rate, low pressure rate and relatively high numbers of passes past the sticks.

In this context, Fields’ ceiling (90th percentile) puts him in a range with Dak Prescott, Kirk Cousins, Jared Goff and Jameis Winston. 

In sum, Justin Fields is a good NFL prospect, but the ceiling might be limited to comp to guys who excel in a Shanahan-like system where things are more scripted and circumstances are cushy. George Chahouri, Mike Renner and I talked about this on a recent episode of the PFF Forecast, and the data appears to bear it out. Statistically, Wilson is the better bet than Fields, especially when you look at the tails. 

The team drafting Fields, may it be the Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers (as Renner states in our latest mock draft), Philadelphia Eagles or Detroit Lions, needs to play him right away in circumstances that can nurture elite play a la what the Los Angeles Rams did with Jared Goff, before wrestling with the tough decision of whether or not to pay him when the bill is due. 

This is not likely to go well if it’s another Andrew Luck situation (a situation where Lawrence and Wilson, while still longshots, should do relatively better), but the value of a quarterback on a rookie deal means that Fields should absolutely go in the top five.

 

[TheMo]

10 hours ago, Paradis said:

I swear to god, if Fields out plays Wilson in the NFL - I will never let you guys live it down. Ever. Daily razzing.

The lengths ppl are going to to undress Fields is unheard of. I thought Lamar had it bad (the guy the same studies said would eat Dick and Rosen would be amazing)... but now some Jack off from FCS who played 1 year and got smoked by central Arkansas - the only FBS team he played - is considered a better prospect? 

Complete Lunacy 

Jesus, this. This idea that Zack Wilson is obviously the best quarterback is nuts. Level of competition matters people. If it didn’t I’d be the Indian Kareem Abdul-Jabar  complete with goggle glasses and sky hook cause heck I was doing it in middle school. Flat out smoking kids in middle school like a boss. Too bad PFF didn’t have the chance to analyze my impending greatness. 

[maury77]

20 minutes ago, TheMo said:

Jesus, this. This idea that Zack Wilson is obviously the best quarterback is nuts. Level of competition matters people. If it didn’t I’d be the Indian Kareem Abdul-Jabar  complete with goggle glasses and sky hook cause heck I was doing it in middle school. Flat out smoking kids in middle school like a boss. Too bad PFF didn’t have the chance to analyze my impending greatness. 

Don't get me wrong, analytics have their place. They are part of the puzzle. But so is film, competition, athletic ability, durability, historical performance, etc. 

[RESNewYork]

Taking out all these analytics, watching Wilson I just don't see his play in college translate to the NFL. Doesn't move the needle at all. Don't see anything special. What am I missing?

From what I've seen, he has all day to throw, receivers are either wide open or winning 50/50 balls. And I don't see the athleticism. 

Please enlighten me. Where are the throws and skills that will translate.

[fullblast]

2 hours ago, Snell41 said:

I’m gonna do this board a favor and give the best analysis of Fields and Wilson.

Fields-garbage
Wilson-hot garbage

The end.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

So Fields, then.

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, RESNewYork said:

Taking out all these analytics, watching Wilson I just don't see his play in college translate to the NFL. Doesn't move the needle at all. Don't see anything special. What am I missing?

From what I've seen, he has all day to throw, receivers are either wide open or winning 50/50 balls. And I don't see the athleticism. 

Please enlighten me. Where are the throws and skills that will translate.

Man you’re gonna hate Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields tape.

[Snook]

13 hours ago, Paradis said:

I swear to god, if Fields out plays Wilson in the NFL - I will never let you guys live it down. Ever. Daily razzing.

The lengths ppl are going to to undress Fields is unheard of. I thought Lamar had it bad (the guy the same studies said would eat Dick and Rosen would be amazing)... but now some Jack off from FCS who played 1 year and got smoked by central Arkansas - the only FBS team he played - is considered a better prospect? 

Complete Lunacy 

Is this a joke?

[BCJet]

7 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

Taking out all these analytics, watching Wilson I just don't see his play in college translate to the NFL. Doesn't move the needle at all. Don't see anything special. What am I missing?

From what I've seen, he has all day to throw, receivers are either wide open or winning 50/50 balls. And I don't see the athleticism. 

Please enlighten me. Where are the throws and skills that will translate.

I dont know enough to say for certainty what skills translate and what dont, but below is Mahome's senior year.   The best QB in the NFL lost games to West Virginia, and Iowa State while scoring less then 20 points both times.  He also had 15 interceptions as a sophomore and 10 as a junior. 

Wilson, while being knocked for not playing vs good competition, did play better teams last season, beating USC, Tennessee and Boise State while losing to Washington and Utah last  year. 

Stephen Austin  Win 69-17

Arizona State  Lost 68-55

Louisiana Tech Won 59-45

Kansas  Won 55-19

Kansas State Lost 44-38

West Virginia Lost 48-17

Oklahoma Lost 66-59

Texas Christian Won 27-24

Texas Lost 45-37

Oklahoma State Lost 45-44

Iowa State  Lost 66-10

Baylor Won 54-35

 

 

[T0mShane]

Just gonna leave this here

 

[bitonti]

18 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I don't think Sewell is a bum. But the risk with him is at least as high as with Wilson.

Penei Sewell has ideal physical gifts. Wilson is 6'1" 210. The risk with Wilson is that he does not have an NFL body. That's a bigger risk than "the greatest lineman in cfb for last decade took a season away to not get covid 

[RedBeardedSavage]

41 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Just gonna leave this here

 

Bo Callahan has no friends. 

[Doggin94it]

22 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Two Mocks/Perspectives came out yesterday that had Justin Fields as the QB #4 in this class. One by Mcshay and one by Tannebaum. Just about everyone has Zach Wilson at number 2 locked in. The responses by Fields fans are that he is not getting a fair shake in this. He is being overlooked and not getting compared to the other QB's on a level playing field. 

So let's do that. 

Note: The below two diagrams are QB's high percentile rankings. Their 90th percentile projections. What does that mean? It means if they are placed in an offense that is more friendly to QB's. Which statistics have to shown to be offenses like the SF offense: Lots of playaction. Lots of Pre snap movement. 

 

First up Justin Fields. 

 

Note: his Baseline comps are Baker Mayfield, Ryan Tannehill and Carson Wentz. That above comps are if he is in a friendly offense. So if he lives his best life your looking at Kirk Cousin, Jared Goff or Winston. But Baker Mayfield is in there. Does that excite anyone? 

 

Now Zach Wilson. 

 

 

So Zach Wilson's baseline comps are equal to the best version of Justin Fields (jared Goff/Cousins). Yet if Zach Wison gets put in the right offense his comps are Russell Wilson and Mahomes - yes, The Patrick Mahomes. Super Elite NFL QB in a QB friendly offense like SF. 

 

Thoughts: 

• The Gap between Zach Wilson and Justin Fields is really wide. It is not close. 
• Stats have shown offenses with motion and play action like the SF benefit QB's. Sucks for Darnold who had none of that.
• Keeping Sam and trading down is likely a much better plan than drafting Fields who's upside is Cousins, Goff or Winston. 
• When you see Video of Zach Wilson there are throws that remind you of Mahomes. Now there are statistics to back that up. 
• Zach Wilson is a better prospect than Joe Burrow statistically speaking just to give casual fans a reference point.  
• Zach's upside is definitely higher than Trevor Lawrence. 
• Did you know that Zach Wilson played in a similar offense to ours last year? Talk about the stars aligning. 

 

In a Perfect World:

Would you consider the group of Mahomes, Russell Wilson and Dak to be on par with Deshaun Watson? No. It's probably better. 

Bc if so in the perfect world you go and trade Sam Darnold. Then you simply take Zach Wilson and save yourself something in the range of 3-4 First round picks, Perhaps Quinnen Williams and something like 21m per year over the next 4 years. 

We now have the perfect offense to maximize a QB to their full potential. More importantly Zach Wilson played in this offense or something similar last year. Meaning his learning curve will be less and he's going to have a great chance to be good early on in his career. 

It is not going to be a popular take. But statistically we might be ALOT better staying where we are and simply taking Zach Wilson and keeping all those first round picks/Quinnen Williams. This is going to be an even less popular take: Zach Wilson's comparables have all had better years then Deshaun. Could Wilson be better than Deshaun? Looking at the stats there is a real possibility of it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Could Wilson be better than Watson? Sure. So could Fields, Lawrence, Trask, Lance, and any other QB in the draft. But the question is probabilities, not possibilities.

If you're trading for Watson, you're doing it because you are guaranteed to get Deshaun Watson level play from Deshaun Watson, and effectively guaranteed to get "at least what we've seen from Deshaun Watson in the past" level play from Watson (barring injury; he'd be moving to a friendlier offense with better weapons than Houston and good God did I just type that about our Jets? Amazing).

So yeah, if we stay at 2, and I'm making the pick with this information, I take Wilson over Fields and it's not close. But I'd still trade for Watson if he's available, because certainty at the most important position in sports is worth paying for

[maury77]

39 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Penei Sewell has ideal physical gifts. Wilson is 6'1" 210. The risk with Wilson is that he does not have an NFL body. That's a bigger risk than "the greatest lineman in cfb for last decade took a season away to not get covid 

I don't want to pick Sewell at 2, but it has nothing to do with his tools. He's an absolute stud and the people that have Slater ahead of him ... I have to question their ability as scouts.

[dbatesman]

42 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Penei Sewell has ideal physical gifts. Wilson is 6'1" 210. The risk with Wilson is that he does not have an NFL body. That's a bigger risk than "the greatest lineman in cfb for last decade took a season away to not get covid 

I have huge concerns about Wilson too. The only difference is that neither I nor anyone else talks about Wilson being a sure thing the way you talk about Sewell, who, by the way, missed a bunch of time with injuries before he took a year off. You’re also only calculating risk in terms of floor. Ceiling matters too. Sewell hits we have bookend tackles for the next decade. Wilson hits we’re Super Bowl contenders for the next decade.

[dcJet]

After reading all this, my non-college-football-watching expertise leans quite a bit towards Fields.

I'm reading similar arm strengths and accuracy.   Wilson is somewhat ahead in mental QB'ing.  Fields is ahead in durability and way ahead in athletics.  The way I see it, Fields can catch Wilson's strengths but not the other way around.

Wilson also looks to me like he'll get sacked in the NFL with the slightest of contact, like the Ryan, Rosen, Sanchez types.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NamathToCaster]

I pick Fields.  He had his mid section blown away against Clemson,  took a couple of injections in the tent and went out and zipped it all over the field.  The following game against Alabama,  I am pretty sure he could barely turn his torso but he gave it his best.  Wilson seems like another entitled Darnold type who is in to himself and more concerned about his hair.  

[Paradis]

13 hours ago, Snook said:

Is this a joke?

Sadly no. 

How is this a mystery to you? 

[Snook]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Sadly no. 

How is this a mystery to you? 

Didn't realize you switched to Trey Lance , who wasn't mentioned in this thread, and who didn't exactly get smoked by Central Arkansas. Accounted for 4 tds and won the game.( Great game ? No. )

[Paradis]

12 minutes ago, Snook said:

Didn't realize you switched to Trey Lance , who wasn't mentioned in this thread, and who didn't exactly get smoked by Central Arkansas. Accounted for 4 tds and won the game.( Great game ? No. )

The post I quoted said Fields had dropped to number 4 on the proverbial QB Pecking order (behind Lance). Which is a joke. Now maybe Lance winds up having a better pro career, who can know. But to say at this point in time he’s a better prospect than fields is something I find indigestible.

and he bombed that game. 15/30 for 149 and 2/1 and it’s a blessing it even looks like that. He had to win the game on his legs. It was not a good game for Lance, did not look comfortable or competent. 

[Snook]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

The post I quoted said Fields had dropped to number 4 on the proverbial QB Pecking order (behind Lance). Which is a joke. Now maybe Lance winds up having a better pro career, who can know. But to say at this point in time he’s a better prospect than fields is something I find indigestible.

and he bombed that game. 15/30 for 149 and 2/1 and it’s a blessing it even looks like that. He had to win the game on his legs. It was not a good game for Lance, did not look comfortable or competent. 

Now that I look back and read the very first sentence in the thread , I see where I screwed up. I wasn't trying to be insulting or snarky,  it was just  past my bedtime Lol.

I appreciate your opinion on these things and realize all the horse manure that gets spread by writers (trying to get a click), agents (trying to get a better paycheck) , and other organizations (Marino is a stoner) .

 

[Paradis]

4 minutes ago, Snook said:

Now that I look back and read the very first sentence in the thread , I see where I screwed up. I wasn't trying to be insulting or snarky,  it was just  past my bedtime Lol.

I appreciate your opinion on these things and realize all the horse manure that gets spread by writers (trying to get a click), agents (trying to get a better paycheck) , and other organizations (Marino is a stoner) .

 

All good brother. Don’t take anything I say too seriously. This is my outlet to the daily grind that is work/kids/wife/homedepot

[Shockwave]

Mcshay Explains why he has Fields as QB4. 

 

[JustInFudge]

10 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Mcshay Explains why he has Fields as QB4. 

 

I have no clue who's going where and who's going to be the better QB, I have my thoughts and it is what it is but PFF and Todd McShay are hands down bar none, the least reliable sources of information regarding the draft out there IMO.  PFF is arbitrary subjective nonsense that most of the time you literally cant quantify what they're trying to sell to you as "stats".  They literally create stats that dont exist or matter and Todd McShay is a total ******* moron, I have no clue who or why he's in this position and why anyone on the earth would listen to him.  

Otherwise, great convo!

[nycdan]

Doesn't it sometimes feel like the whole point of this exercise in elevating Wilson to be neck-and-neck with Fields is so that, whoever the Jets select at #2, 80% of the draft analysts can give them a C+ grade for taking the 'wrong' guy?  Especially the ones who favored that same guy in 50% of their mock drafts?

[Philc1]

On 2/12/2021 at 2:10 AM, dcJet said:

I'd take either of these two.  

Don't complicate it. 

We need a QB.  There are two worthy and available.  Take one.

 

Even if they both suck?

[Philc1]

31 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Doesn't it sometimes feel like the whole point of this exercise in elevating Wilson to be neck-and-neck with Fields is so that, whoever the Jets select at #2, 80% of the draft analysts can give them a C+ grade for taking the 'wrong' guy?  Especially the ones who favored that same guy in 50% of their mock drafts?

Wilson’s injury history is the real story and Fields is a more mobile Dwayne Haskins

 

If the jets take either at 2 they deserve a big fat F-

 

[Shockwave]

On 2/12/2021 at 7:25 AM, BCJet said:

I dont know enough to say for certainty what skills translate and what dont, but below is Mahome's senior year.   The best QB in the NFL lost games to West Virginia, and Iowa State while scoring less then 20 points both times.  He also had 15 interceptions as a sophomore and 10 as a junior. 

Wilson, while being knocked for not playing vs good competition, did play better teams last season, beating USC, Tennessee and Boise State while losing to Washington and Utah last  year. 

Stephen Austin  Win 69-17

Arizona State  Lost 68-55

Louisiana Tech Won 59-45

Kansas  Won 55-19

Kansas State Lost 44-38

West Virginia Lost 48-17

Oklahoma Lost 66-59

Texas Christian Won 27-24

Texas Lost 45-37

Oklahoma State Lost 45-44

Iowa State  Lost 66-10

Baylor Won 54-35

 

 

Nice Post. 

People forget Mahomes and Watson were not top 5 picks. Its really all about projection. 

[Shockwave]

 

7 hours ago, JiF said:

I have no clue who's going where and who's going to be the better QB, I have my thoughts and it is what it is but PFF and Todd McShay are hands down bar none, the least reliable sources of information regarding the draft out there IMO.  PFF is arbitrary subjective nonsense that most of the time you literally cant quantify what they're trying to sell to you as "stats".  They literally create stats that dont exist or matter and Todd McShay is a total ******* moron, I have no clue who or why he's in this position and why anyone on the earth would listen to him.  

Otherwise, great convo!

 

Joe Douglas would disagree with you. 

 

Quote

Report: Jets GM Joe Douglas considering ESPN's Todd McShay for staff job

Spencer Aber 

 

June 8, 2019 3:23 pm

With Joe Douglas officially being named the Jets general manager, he has already hit the ground running as he looks to fill out his staff.

According to ESPN’s Rich Cimini, Douglas is considering hiring ESPN’s Todd McShay for a role on his staff. McShay is expected to speak with Douglas sometime in the middle of next week.

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2019/06/08/report-jets-gm-joe-douglas-considering-espns-todd-mcshay-for-staff-job/

[Shockwave]

6 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Wilson’s injury history is the real story and Fields is a more mobile Dwayne Haskins

If the jets take either at 2 they deserve a big fat F-

Wilson's injury history is a legit concern. 

Justin Fields is alittle different then Haskins but drafting a Ohio state QB is super concerning. I love Fields character and physical make up but he screams bust to me.