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Colts, Washington, and Panthers reach out to Jets regarding Darnold


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1 hour ago, HighPitch said:

Remember s few months ago when u said there will only be like   2 or 3 qbs taken in round 1 and i said there will be 4 taken in the first 12 picks and you got mad?

I don't remember what I ate for breakfast tbh 

If I got mad it was probably the tone of the debate not the content 

By the way I've thought about your last response re Sewell at 2. I like this player but he's not a lock to go 2. Its possible.

The wilson folks are acting like their qb is a lock. There are no locks in Feb. That's the difference.

We need an exam and a workout. We don't even know his height. You can trust Oregon who has scouts at every practice to not lie in the roster listing. Mid majors not so much 

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No way of knowing for certain unless you get to do both in hindsight, but I don’t think so. IMO make a deal while a 3-way bidding war is ongoing, not 2 months later when the offers might lighten (or b

Tell me Matt Rhule rehabbing ex-Jet Sam Darnold into stardom is story that doesn’t write itself. Tell me. I dare you. 

Robby Anderson can't catch a break. 

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1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

 


You can literally do the same thing without wasting the #2 overall pick on a QB that isn’t even worth a first round picks.


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You could.

But you need to hedge your bet on Sam by finding a serviceable starting QB. Could you get him at 23? Possibly, but I wouldn't hang my hat on that hope. Therefore, you need to trade or bring in a free agent for QB. Who would you get and how? 

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6 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Mahomes lookee pretty sh*tty with no line. Imagine not realizing  circumstances matter and throwing away a generational talent because you don't understand  football.

Sam darnold is far from a generational talent. 

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You could.
But you need to hedge your bet on Sam by finding a serviceable starting QB. Could you get him at 23? Possibly, but I wouldn't hang my hat on that hope. Therefore, you need to trade or bring in a free agent for QB. Who would you get and how? 


I’d take my chances on a year 2 James Morgan over Wilson or Fields in the first round. Draft a guy like Sewell at 2. Build an OL and draft weapons at WR/TE/RB. Let Sam take the beating of playing with the youngsters. We will not be a contender next year so we should have a decent first round d pick plus SEA’s again as well, which who knows where that will be given their drama issues out there. If Sam suddenly had a light bulb go off and actually plays well with the youngsters then it’s a good problem to have. If not then goodbye, draft a QB with our highest pick or use them both to move up to take one. Fields and Wilson are guys in the category of Fromm, Kizer, Rudolph, Lock, Haskins. These are backup caliber QB’s, you don’t use the #2 overall on them.


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IF the NY Jets decide to keep Sam Darnold and not draft a QB we definitely have to sign a guy like Nick Mullens to be able to replace Sam Darnold immediately if he sucks again. 

2021 Opening day roster QB's Darnold,Mullens,Morgan 

 

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1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

 


I’d take my chances on a year 2 James Morgan over Wilson or Fields in the first round. Draft a guy like Sewell at 2. Build an OL and draft weapons at WR/TE/RB. Let Sam take the beating of playing with the youngsters. We will not be a contender next year so we should have a decent first round d pick plus SEA’s again as well, which who knows where that will be given their drama issues out there. If Sam suddenly had a light bulb go off and actually plays well with the youngsters then it’s a good problem to have. If not then goodbye, draft a QB with our highest pick or use them both to move up to take one. Fields and Wilson are guys in the category of Fromm, Kizer, Rudolph, Lock, Haskins. These are backup caliber QB’s, you don’t use the #2 overall on them.


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I'd sign up for that, except for drafting a QB later. I think I would look for a FA QB this year... maybe Mariota or Bridgewater... just to hold the fort for a year in case Sam is not the man. If he's not, then next year we can find our QB.

 

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13 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

But have you seen all the movement this offseason at QB. This season is the prime time to trade him as teams get desperate because they've been left standing watching the dance.

Def good point - But teams will always need QB's. Darnold's value could not be lower right now. 

If we want to move forward with Darnold the first step is extending him. We are going to have an improved system and much better personal. If we like a QB in the draft next year or Watson becomes available we could always trade Darnold at a later date. If he is worth a mid second now - if he improves this year we will do even better. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Def good point - But teams will always need QB's. Darnold's value could not be lower right now. 

If we want to move forward with Darnold the first step is extending him. We are going to have an improved system and much better personal. If we like a QB in the draft next year or Watson becomes available we could always trade Darnold at a later date. If he is worth a mid second now - if he improves this year we will do even better. 

 

 

If we roll with Darnold, no way we extend him until after he proves himself.   Unless you hate cap space.

 

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On 2/13/2021 at 9:53 AM, FidelioJet said:

but it'll be a hell of a lot worse for JD if he keeps Darnold and he flops.  

Let alone if any one of the other guys becomes a star.

If JD's strictly looking at personal risk - keeping him here is the much larger concern.

I see it differently.

I think the bigger risk is shipping him out at a discount because he "can't" stay. 

What's the difference between another coaching staff trading a premium pick for the right to rehab Darnold and our new coaching staff retaining him to rehab?

The answer.. ..  we don't have to trade a pick to retain him ( just the opportunity cost of what we would potentially receive in a trade)

Keeping Darnold and drafting a QB at #2 are not mutually exclusive propositions, we can do both. I'm not really an advocate of doing so but I would understand the logic of the move.

If we trade Darnold for a bag of balls and he is serviceable elsewhere while we draft your boyfriend Wilson and he busts that would be a kill shot to JDs GM Career. Passing on the non TL QBs to do your due diligence on Darnold in an actual NFL offense with an actual NFL coaching staff could be spun positively.

On 2/13/2021 at 9:51 AM, FidelioJet said:

I think there's absolute merit to this but you still can't keep him.

Sam will be traded.

Your takes are becoming progressively hotter and hotter. 

"Can't keep him."

Really

sassy bill murray GIF

 

I think Darnold is trash but I'm not unwilling to be persuaded that I could be wrong or that this staff knows better than I do.

You've tied your **** to the Wilson Bandwagon while hoping it doesn't go off a Cliff and are so confident he is the one you are ready to send Darnold to the glue factory.

 

One thing I can say for you is unlike many at least you have a position.

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8 hours ago, dcJet said:

If we roll with Darnold, no way we extend him until after he proves himself.   Unless you hate cap space.

No interest in having a Dak Prescott situation this offseason where we are forced to Franchise Sam if we can't come to an agreement. Even less interest in having a Jared Goff situation a year from now if Sam has a good season, gets paid then regresses. 

If the Jets and Sam can't come to an agreement it's time to trade Sam and pick Wilson or Fields at 2. Especially since we can get a decent pick for him. 

 

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14 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

IF the NY Jets decide to keep Sam Darnold and not draft a QB we definitely have to sign a guy like Nick Mullens to be able to replace Sam Darnold immediately if he sucks again. 

2021 Opening day roster QB's Darnold,Mullens,Morgan 

 

Is Mullins a free agent?  I know beathered is.  My favorite scenario is trading down, trading Sam, Stacking this roster w/ young draft picks and letting Beathered/Morgan battle it out in camp.  Address qb in next years draft.

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13 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Is Mullins a free agent?  I know beathered is.  My favorite scenario is trading down, trading Sam, Stacking this roster w/ young draft picks and letting Beathered/Morgan battle it out in camp.  Address qb in next years draft.

USATSI_15144461.jpg?w=1000

Nick Mullens, 25, RFA
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19 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Is Mullins a free agent?  I know beathered is.  My favorite scenario is trading down, trading Sam, Stacking this roster w/ young draft picks and letting Beathered/Morgan battle it out in camp.  Address qb in next years draft.

I can't see both trading Sam AND trading down without getting Watson.  Sam is a mystery at best, but Morgan is a conundrum wrapped in a puzzle wrapped in a mystery.  We have NO idea what he is or isn't.  And Beathard is hardly the type of 'vet' you can trot in as your presumptive #1.  

If we trade down, we will have more than enough draft capital that we really don't need to trade Sam this year.  

If we trade Sam, we should have more than enough draft capital to roll the dice on Fields or Wilson (or possibly trade down just a little bit to get one of the two anyway).

 

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1 hour ago, Lurker89 said:

I see it differently.

I think the bigger risk is shipping him out at a discount because he "can't" stay. 

 

 

Okay then.  

What would you consider a discount? At what point is the risk higher keeping him than not?

If he can get a 2nd, which feels like a lock right now - is it still worth keeping him?

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1 hour ago, Shockwave said:

No interest in having a Dak Prescott situation this offseason where we are forced to Franchise Sam if we can't come to an agreement. Even less interest in having a Jared Goff situation a year from now if Sam has a good season, gets paid then regresses. 

If the Jets and Sam can't come to an agreement it's time to trade Sam and pick Wilson or Fields at 2. Especially since we can get a decent pick for him. 

 

Extending Sam now would be a crazy like extending Sanchez was.

If pigs fly and Sam improves to decent, then we have the cap space and the exclusive negotiating rights to extend him during the season.

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

IF the NY Jets decide to keep Sam Darnold and not draft a QB we definitely have to sign a guy like Nick Mullens to be able to replace Sam Darnold immediately if he sucks again. 

2021 Opening day roster QB's Darnold,Mullens,Morgan 

 

I’m all for Mullens if we keep Darnold or draft a QB.

Not sure if we‘ll be able to get him. Shanahan values him.

CJ Beathard is probably more realistic.

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Mullens is a RFA 

If we keep Sam Darnold and don't draft a QB we need plan B and it has to be a decent one. 

Not having a QB issue and trading draft picks  allows us to build a team using all those draft picks. 

 

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We have the #2 pick. Hopefully that never happens again. If your scouting indicates that one of the QBs is more likely than not to be a FQB you just pick him. Seems like everyone wants to get cute and many want to "pick QB next year" like we will have a Top 5 pick again. Just stop.

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Okay then.  

What would you consider a discount? At what point is the risk higher keeping him than not?

If he can get a 2nd, which feels like a lock right now - is it still worth keeping him?

It depends on what's more than important overall.

At the end of the day we both want to move on from Sam albeit for different reasons.

You don't see the skillet.

I don't see the fire.

I think you need a QB who wants it and wants it bad.

The only QB I really see that in is Fields.

To the meat of your question, is it more important to hedge your bets at QB, Keep Darnold and draft one at #2 have a real QB competition and go from there; or have another positional player with an additional 2nd rounder.

Personally I want the second rounder but I also think it is smarter to hedge bets at the QB position. You don't have a QB until you have a QB right, so let's have 3 young guys fight it out in camp #2, Darnold, Morgan, And add a vet if you like.

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17 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

We have the #2 pick. Hopefully that never happens again. If your scouting indicates that one of the QBs is more likely than not to be a FQB you just pick him. Seems like everyone wants to get cute and many want to "pick QB next year" like we will have a Top 5 pick again. Just stop.

I agree. My fear is we keep Darnold and he turns out to be mediocre next season. We’re stuck picking 12th in the draft, too far down from taking a QB we might covet and in the meantime Sam’s looking for a new contract.

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4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

We have the #2 pick. Hopefully that never happens again. If your scouting indicates that one of the QBs is more likely than not to be a FQB you just pick him. Seems like everyone wants to get cute and many want to "pick QB next year" like we will have a Top 5 pick again. Just stop.

This.  Everything points to us picking in the teens next year. 

Some better players, better luck, easier schedule, less injuries, dead-coach-bounce.

Just take the QB at 2.  Don't Macc it.

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11 hours ago, dcJet said:

Extending Sam now would be a crazy like extending Sanchez was.

If pigs fly and Sam improves to decent, then we have the cap space and the exclusive negotiating rights to extend him during the season.

The Jets have leverage with Sam now that they didn't have with Sanchez at the time, so they can make an extension offer to Sam that won't cripple us like the Sanchez one did.  

Once it became clear that his very-public pursuit of Peyton Manning had failed in 2012, Tannenbaum realized that he had painted himself into a corner.  If he didn't soothe Sanchez's hurt feelings with a lucrative contract extension, he had no Plan C for the quarterback position.  So, he made the ultimate panic move and signed Sanchez to the seventh highest-paying QB contract at the time, screwing both our QB and cap situations for the next few years.

The Jets have more options now.  They can offer Sam a two-year extension at a very reasonable rate that won't kill our cap.  Sam may bite, because if he struggles again this year with the new coaching staff he knows he will be looking at a backup QB contract/career.  Plus, Joe D can sweeten the deal with incentives that will reward Sam if he becomes an above-average QB.  If he earns them, we should be all too happy to pay them out.

If Sam refuses to take a team-friendly deal now (unlike the monstrosity of a contract that Sanchez got), the Jets can say "oh well" and have options to take a QB at #2, keep Sam and sign him later if they want, stockpile picks to get in position to draft a QB next year if needed, or make a trade for Watson if/when he becomes available (before or during this season, or next season).  This time, the team holds the cards, not the QB.

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25 minutes ago, MykePM said:

The Jets have leverage with Sam now that they didn't have with Sanchez at the time, so they can make an extension offer to Sam that won't cripple us like the Sanchez one did.  

Once it became clear that his very-public pursuit of Peyton Manning had failed in 2012, Tannenbaum realized that he had painted himself into a corner.  If he didn't soothe Sanchez's hurt feelings with a lucrative contract extension, he had no Plan C for the quarterback position.  So, he made the ultimate panic move and signed Sanchez to the seventh highest-paying QB contract at the time, screwing both our QB and cap situations for the next few years.

The Jets have more options now.  They can offer Sam a two-year extension at a very reasonable rate that won't kill our cap.  Sam may bite, because if he struggles again this year with the new coaching staff he knows he will be looking at a backup QB contract/career.  Plus, Joe D can sweeten the deal with incentives that will reward Sam if he becomes an above-average QB.  If he earns them, we should be all too happy to pay them out.

If Sam refuses to take a team-friendly deal now (unlike the monstrosity of a contract that Sanchez got), the Jets can say "oh well" and have options to take a QB at #2, keep Sam and sign him later if they want, stockpile picks to get in position to draft a QB next year if needed, or make a trade for Watson if/when he becomes available (before or during this season, or next season).  This time, the team holds the cards, not the QB.

Why do all this when you can have a cost controlled rookie for 4 years with higher upside?  Seems extremely counterproductive

If we were a team like the Bears, that didn’t have access to any legitimate replacements then you’re suggestions would make sense 

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On 2/14/2021 at 7:50 PM, joewilly12 said:

IF the NY Jets decide to keep Sam Darnold and not draft a QB we definitely have to sign a guy like Nick Mullens to be able to replace Sam Darnold immediately if he sucks again. 

2021 Opening day roster QB's Darnold,Mullens,Morgan 

 

Of you sign mullens, you immediately have a QB controversy and likelihood mullens wins. So if you grab Mullens, just ditch Darnold. 

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1 hour ago, oatmeal said:

Why do all this when you can have a cost controlled rookie for 4 years with higher upside?  Seems extremely counterproductive

If we were a team like the Bears, that didn’t have access to any legitimate replacements then you’re suggestions would make sense 

Having a QB on a rookie contract is definitely a plus, and reportedly the Jets are weighing all factors in their 'Darnold vs. draft pick' decision.  So, I can't argue with drafting a rookie with our first round 1 pick (at #2, or lower if they trade down), if they think the potential of the player there is close to or better than Sam's.  However, if they rank Sam higher than the non-Lawrence rookies, or if they like the value of keeping Sam and trading the #2 pick for extra picks to build up the talent on the team, then extending Sam becomes a possibility - and one I think is valid, if done the right way.

I understand the "trade Sam" sentiment, but reportedly the team is seriously considering keeping him (even if you and others disagree with that), so exploring that possibility is relevant.

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On 2/15/2021 at 4:49 AM, Philc1 said:

Fair enough, but he’s still better than any qb not named Lawrence in this draft

I disagree. Both Wilson and fields are better prospects. Name 1 thing darnold does better. 

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21 minutes ago, Ghost420 said:

I disagree. Both Wilson and fields are better prospects. Damn 1 thing darnold does better. 

It really doesn’t matter who was the better prospect heading into the league. The Jets don’t have the rookie version of Sam Darnold anymore. They have a version that has developed bad habits, lost confidence, and has to be rebuilt. 
 

If the 5th year option wasn’t guaranteed I’d think the chances of Sam returning would be a lot stronger. As things currently stand the Jets only have him under contract for one more season. It is illogical not to react to this type of problem.

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We have the #2 pick. Hopefully that never happens again. If your scouting indicates that one of the QBs is more likely than not to be a FQB you just pick him. Seems like everyone wants to get cute and many want to "pick QB next year" like we will have a Top 5 pick again. Just stop.



I never said that. What I’m saying is by odds the QB’s available at the 15-20 range will be equal or better caliber than the QB’s available at 2 this year. These guys aren’t even first round quality IMO, to use the #2 overall on them is lunacy.


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On 2/15/2021 at 11:24 AM, FidelioJet said:

Okay then.  

What would you consider a discount? At what point is the risk higher keeping him than not?

If he can get a 2nd, which feels like a lock right now - is it still worth keeping him?

 

On 2/15/2021 at 1:34 PM, Lurker89 said:

It depends on what's more than important overall.

At the end of the day we both want to move on from Sam albeit for different reasons.

You don't see the skillet.

I don't see the fire.

I think you need a QB who wants it and wants it bad.

The only QB I really see that in is Fields.

To the meat of your question, is it more important to hedge your bets at QB, Keep Darnold and draft one at #2 have a real QB competition and go from there; or have another positional player with an additional 2nd rounder.

Personally I want the second rounder but I also think it is smarter to hedge bets at the QB position. You don't have a QB until you have a QB right, so let's have 3 young guys fight it out in camp #2, Darnold, Morgan, And add a vet if you like.

 

On 2/15/2021 at 1:43 PM, FidelioJet said:

This is one of the many reasons why JD will NOT keep Sam.

Honestly, this is all a ploy to get as much for him as possible but there's simply no way JD can keep him. 

Just too much can go wrong.

So you are just gonna move on and not respond to the answer to your question?....

Happy Excuse Me GIF

 

Why "can't" you do both, keep Sam for a year and draft a QB at #2 and hedge your bets at the QB position considering it is the most important one by far?

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4 hours ago, Lurker89 said:

Why "can't" you do both, keep Sam for a year and draft a QB at #2 and hedge your bets at the QB position considering it is the most important one by far?

I don't want to answer for someone else, but for me it isn't that you can't so much as you wouldn't.

Taking a QB at #2 is already a serious investment. While there's debate ;) over the value of that pick, it's undeniable the Jets would get more for trading down. If they're going to bypass those extra picks, whatever they may be, the team isn't going to also (in effect) use another 2nd or more, potentially even a later-half 1st, on Darnold.

By turning down any pick(s) for Darnold, you're essentially trading them away as well to give him a 4th tryout season after also drafting a replacement you like enough to draft at #2. 

Darnold's value is highest to a playoff team that wants to get a first-hand look on a recently-promising, healthy, young QB -- but is unable or unwilling to trade away enough to move into the top 10 (let alone top 5, or top 2) to do so, nor for the other QBs in play (Stafford, Wentz, etc.). I don't think he holds that same value for the Jets, who are better off with the pick if they're drafting another QB at #2.

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On 2/15/2021 at 10:32 AM, nycdan said:

I can't see both trading Sam AND trading down without getting Watson.  Sam is a mystery at best, but Morgan is a conundrum wrapped in a puzzle wrapped in a mystery.  We have NO idea what he is or isn't.  And Beathard is hardly the type of 'vet' you can trot in as your presumptive #1.  

If we trade down, we will have more than enough draft capital that we really don't need to trade Sam this year.  

If we trade Sam, we should have more than enough draft capital to roll the dice on Fields or Wilson (or possibly trade down just a little bit to get one of the two anyway).

 

i have no idea what morgan is or isn't.  he may the second coming for all i know.  but it looks like douglas drafted him more to be darnold's back up as opposed to be his outright replacement.  but who knows.  it's also not beyond reason to draft a qb with the 2 pick and keep darnold.  this would be a similar scenario to when the jets drafted obrien in 83 or even when the doltfins drafted marino.  both todd and woodley started the season for their respective teams.

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49 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

 

 

So you are just gonna move on and not respond to the answer to your question?....

Happy Excuse Me GIF

 

Why "can't" you do both, keep Sam for a year and draft a QB at #2 and hedge your bets at the QB position considering it is the most important one by far?

I think Sperm just answered correctly.

But give my points...

1) When you bring a QB at 2.  You want to do EVERYTHING you can to help develop that QB.  That means supporting him with talent, a good QB coach and getting as many reps as possible.  The last thing you want for your young QB is to be in a competition, with someone taking half his reps. 

Everything you do when we take a QB at 2 should start and end with one question - Does it help Zach Wilson?  If the answer is no then you don't do it.  Keeping Darnold would be a No.  it's also why I believe we shouldn't take a defensive player in the first 3 rounds over the next two drafts.  Develop your QB first - then worry about building a defense.

2) You want the draft pick you can get for him.  You're throwing away a 1st or 2nd round pick on someone that you're pretty confident you're moving on from.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Everything you do when we take a QB at 2 should start and end with one question - Does it help Zach Wilson? 

That’s going to be a weird question to ask if we draft Justin Fields. 

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