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For a QB, what do you value more, arm talent or toughness


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This is what I have been wrestling  with between Fields and Wilson.  Both are pretty close in accuracy, athleticism, and speed, but Wilson just has this effortless  throwing style and he throws the ball a really long way. What really impressed me with Fields is the toughness  he displayed against Clemson. The defender speared him with his helmet, broke his ribs and the guy went out for one play and came back and threw a TD on the same drive. That was like something out of a movie. I really admire that kind of thing and it is why I want Fields but lately I have been looking at more YouTube of Wilson and I'm thinking the arm talent might be too good to pass on.

Thoughts?

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After watching Sam Darnold for the last 3 years, I'm inclined to go with toughness on this one.  Never again do I want another soft b*tch playing QB for the Jets.

Since I prefer Fields over Wilson anyways, this is another reason to go with Fields in my mind.

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5 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

Toughness ? These qb’s are basically kickers. You can’t put a finger on them. 
 

give me arm strength and accuracy 

 

Yet Darnold still finds a way to miss 3+ games a season.

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3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

This is what I have been wrestling  with between Fields and Wilson.  Both are pretty close in accuracy, athleticism, and speed, but Wilson just has this effortless  throwing style and he throws the ball a really long way. What really impressed me with Fields is the toughness  he displayed against Clemson. The defender speared him with his helmet, broke his ribs and the guy went out for one play and came back and threw a TD on the same drive. That was like something out of a movie. I really admire that kind of thing and it is why I want Fields but lately I have been looking at more YouTube of Wilson and I'm thinking the arm talent might be too good to pass on.

Thoughts?

You need both to succeed at a high level in the NFL.  Rosen has all the arm talent in the world, but no toughness, and the guy gets injured.  Chad Pennington had toughness and leadership but not arm strength.  He was a mid- first round pick, and didn't deserve to go higher.

I want someone who can stay on the field, make all the throws, and show toughness when you need to.

Tom Brady doesn't have athleticism, but is a field general, has pocket awareness and can make the throws, but his toughness is that he doesn't get hurt very often.  He's not tough in that he can fight out of a sack, or knock someone over when running for a first down.

The real question for me is if Wilson is tough enough to stay on the field in the NFL without getting hurt.  If he can avoid injury and be a great field general, then he is the pick.

If he is susceptible to injury, then Fields is the guy,  But then you have another problem, and that is is Fields good enough to be taken with the 2nd pick in the draft?  Because if you have doubts about Wilson's ability to stay on the field, and if Fields is not rated as high, then you don't pick either QB at #2.  Then you stay with Darnold, and continue to build the wall around him with Sewell or another interior lineman like Creed Humphrey with the late 1st round pick.

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Processing speed.

We have no idea on this for either. Both hold the ball a long time because of the type of protection or scheme they play in. Wilson might be better as I have seen Fields stare down receivers but that has been attributed to the system he plays in where he is waiting to see what option the receiver does before he throws. 

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10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Processing speed.

 

8 minutes ago, KRL said:

Give me QB IQ, if you know what the defense is doing you can stay away

from your weaknesses

 

Problem is this is the hardest part to evaluate for any QB prospect.  You don't truly know what he has between the ears when adjusting to the speed of the NFL until well after you draft him.  Hence why teams seem to be moving towards athleticism over everything when it comes to drafting QB's.

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I want a QB who's eyes stay downfield, and can read his progressions and a defense. One who has excellent pocket awareness, and knows how to get the ball out of his hand at the right time with accuracy. I don't need one who can unload 70 yard bombs all the time.

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24 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

This is what I have been wrestling  with between Fields and Wilson.  Both are pretty close in accuracy, athleticism, and speed, but Wilson just has this effortless  throwing style and he throws the ball a really long way. What really impressed me with Fields is the toughness  he displayed against Clemson. The defender speared him with his helmet, broke his ribs and the guy went out for one play and came back and threw a TD on the same drive. That was like something out of a movie. I really admire that kind of thing and it is why I want Fields but lately I have been looking at more YouTube of Wilson and I'm thinking the arm talent might be too good to pass on.

Thoughts?

Arm talent , the NFL is powder puff football in regard to QBs unless you are a Jet QB.

Ok.....toughness.

FU Goodell

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22 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

Toughness ? These qb’s are basically kickers. You can’t put a finger on them. 
 

give me arm strength and accuracy 

good point.  i remember stories about qb's like billy kilmer who would get smashed in the mouth, egt stiches, and go back in.  pat ryan took some pretty hard hits and came back in.  thanks to brady qb's don't get touched or even called for intentional grounding much anymore.

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36 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

Toughness ? These qb’s are basically kickers. You can’t put a finger on them. 
 

give me arm strength and accuracy 

Is Tom Brady a tough QB?   No.  I'd actually argue toughness will get a QB hurt, rather than the ability to get down and be available for the next play.

Give me brains and at least enough arm talent to succeed. 

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The most important thing a QB does is read defenses and go through progressions and deal with the blitz. 

Justin Fields is going to struggle with these things. Besides that he's a physical specimen and good person. 

Zach Wilson looks like hell do much better with the above. However he's a little twerp, Looks Douchy and is def going to try to get with every team mates younger sister he could. 

Tough choice. 

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

This is what I have been wrestling  with between Fields and Wilson.  Both are pretty close in accuracy, athleticism, and speed, but Wilson just has this effortless  throwing style and he throws the ball a really long way. What really impressed me with Fields is the toughness  he displayed against Clemson. The defender speared him with his helmet, broke his ribs and the guy went out for one play and came back and threw a TD on the same drive. That was like something out of a movie. I really admire that kind of thing and it is why I want Fields but lately I have been looking at more YouTube of Wilson and I'm thinking the arm talent might be too good to pass on.

Thoughts?

Neither.

1. Brains.  Knowing what to do and when and then doing it.

2. Leadership.  Do Players play for this QB at their best.

2. Arm Talent (NOT strength per se, but talent, they're not the same thing).

3. Durability (NOT toughness, again, not the same thing).

Ultimately, if you lack ANY of these four, you're not a Franchise QB. 

So each of these need to meet a minimum criteria, but otherwise, this is my priority listing.

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35 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

The most important thing a QB does is read defenses and go through progressions and deal with the blitz. 

Justin Fields is going to struggle with these things. Besides that he's a physical specimen and good person. 

Zach Wilson looks like hell do much better with the above. However he's a little twerp, Looks Douchy and is def going to try to get with every team mates younger sister he could. 

Tough choice. 

 

Why is Wilson going to do better than Fields in this area?

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Every 1st round QB in tbe NFL has the "arm talent" to success in the NFL.  Hell, most 3rd rounders probably do.  It's the intangibles that makes the difference.  I'll vote for toughness by a country mile.

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I brought this up before and when you say toughness, what I think you mean is attitude.

Don't just watch the highlights watch the interviews. What kind of guys are they?

Especially in New York! And please don't tell me that New York isn't different then Arizona, Seattle, Minnesota or frickin' Miami.

You give me a football game and a good goddamn three day snowstorm and I'll take Billy Joel over Sam darnold any day of the week LOL!

At least Billy Joel knows how to get drunk and crash three times and live.

Pretty sure he's not eating avocado anything, or any kind of sissy ass crepes, or veggie breakfast burritos!

Can we get a guy in here who will punch you in your face and can grow a 5 o'clock shadow?

Jiminy Christmas and for Cripe Mike already! Stop bringing in these swarmy California fags!

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Top 5 QB season in Jets history.  Criminally underappreciated by Jets fans.  Loathed by @Pac for some strange reason.

That whole season was Fitzmagic throwing up 50/50 balls to Decker and Marshall and them bailing him out. Everyone, for some reason, was surprised the next year when the coin flip started coming up tails.

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There's one more factor that is hard to define.  It's that thing that makes them rise up when the pressure mounts.  Whatever you call it, swagger, cockiness, it's that thing that Joe Namath had.  Joe Montana had.  Even *gag* Brady has.  Not every QB has it.  See Kirk Cousins.  Lots of everything on that list, but he's missing the one thing that makes a post-season winner.

Whatever it is, I want our guy to have that.

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49 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

That whole season was Fitzmagic throwing up 50/50 balls to Decker and Marshall and them bailing him out. Everyone, for some reason, was surprised the next year when the coin flip started coming up tails.

Other Jets QB's would still find creative ways to wildly miss those throws, take unnecessary sacks, or make the wrong read and throw it into heavy traffic.

I'm not saying Fitzpatrick was good.  Just far better than the trash that came before and after him.  And it was undeniable that he was a pretty tough SOB who played with some balls out there.  That counts for something.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Indeed.  A QB with pocket presents most certainly has many gifts.

Just as long as he doesn't send pictures of them to the female reporters.

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3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

This is what I have been wrestling  with between Fields and Wilson.  Both are pretty close in accuracy, athleticism, and speed, but Wilson just has this effortless  throwing style and he throws the ball a really long way. What really impressed me with Fields is the toughness  he displayed against Clemson. The defender speared him with his helmet, broke his ribs and the guy went out for one play and came back and threw a TD on the same drive. That was like something out of a movie. I really admire that kind of thing and it is why I want Fields but lately I have been looking at more YouTube of Wilson and I'm thinking the arm talent might be too good to pass on.

Thoughts?

Arm talent. I mean you need a baseline of both to be able to play quarterback successfully in the NFL. But if you're telling me that I can have a guy with special arm talent and good enough toughness for special toughness and good enough arm Talent? I'll take the first one

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It depend. For a guy like Fields who holds on to the ball a long time, toughness and durability matters. But if a guy is getting ball out quickly, it doesn’t matter as much. 

In general, I prefer the guy with arm talent (arm strength, accuracy and just being able to get the ball where you want regardless of the platform you throw it from).

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3 hours ago, KRL said:

Give me QB IQ, if you know what the defense is doing you can stay away

from your weaknesses

 

Hackenberg was a beast on the whiteboard and could solve trigonometry while Roofie’d

there goes that argument. 

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