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Watson Not Interested in Jets (Source)


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21 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Game checks, yes. And we agree that adds up.

But all the upcoming roster bonus is issued in New Jersey that's the big nut. Watson making 30 mil per year on his current deal, he's getting like 8 figure checks every offseason, besides the game checks

While we're at it, endorsement money as well.

https://www.hodgsonruss.com/media/publication/434_How States Handle Signing Bonuses for Athletes.pdf

 

 

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FIRE WATSON!!!!

Of course hes not.  We are awful and rebuilding from square 1. Denver would be the best spot.  They have ridiculous playmakers on offense.

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

The 2019 bucs were a super bowl roster held back by Jameis at qb. The 2 win Jets are among the worst in league history. 

There are no shortcuts 

Why not? They sat on 60 million last year. 

You don't get to 80 million under the cap by accident 

No they didn't, but keep repeating it if it brings you such joy. 

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17 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

It’s February. I just started a nee job remotely. My fridge died last night. My whole family is categorically high-risk and we barely leave the house. The only woman I see in real life is my wife... and I am lactose intolerant.

I will NOT move on. Not ever.

The funny/concerning ;)  thing is the amount of people that believe what they're hearing now. It's all BS and I doubt any of it is from Watson. If he comes to NY and we sign ARob or one of the top receivers and Thuney and draft a center/guard we will be good immediately. We will also have the cash to sign Lattimore if he comes free. Instant contender by adding mostly young pieces. You need some grizzled vets to show the young guys the ropes. Watson, Arob, Mims, Crowder, Herndon with a revamped line - we can be pretty good right away. We still have a bunch of picks too, especially when we trade Sam. It will be a normal draft for us.

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10 hours ago, doitny said:

i agree.

cant see JD spending the big money those guys would want. i think he takes the 2nd or 3rd best player at a positon cause it would cost less and it gives him more money to spend elsewhere.

What better way to spend your money than to grab a veteran guard to pair with Becton and a young guy like Lattimore to anchor the back of our D for the next 5-8 years. We may not have to overpay - we are one of the only teams with substantial cap space. Now if we get Watson it will attract more of the top, younger free agents at WR. We can also draft a center in the 2nd or 3rd round.

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15 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

What about the over 80 mil in cap space to get Allen Robinson, Thuney, a center and a starting corner. You actually think Watson, ARob or another #1 WR FA, Mims, Crowder, our O-line with Thuney, new center, etc. plus the pick for Sam, two #3s and other picks will net us 4 wins? I think the first year we could win at least 8 or 9 games, 10 if they gel. It's just not true to say we won't have the assets to build around Watson - we have plenty to add excellent pieces to fill out our offense.

if we trade quinnen williams then yes. our defense was bad last year. if we give up our 4 1sts plus quinnen our team is going to suck. if we get all thos guys to come here, sure we will score more points.....but our defense is going to suck donkey cocks

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

 

Agree to disagree.  I want nothing to do with Wentz at any price.  He's not as good as all that, and he's an egg back there, to quote the old Pennington criticism.  He's a 35-32-1 QB.  Who has missed substantial time in almost every season.  And has had as many Darnold-like sub 3,500 yard, barely or sub 60% comp. rate, 1:1 TD/INT seasons as good seasons.    

"Wentz is a few ticks from Watson", yeah, no, and even a casual look at their production numbers and reliability shows that.  But let's say you're right, if they're "just a few ticks" apart, then reasonably the prices in a trade will then also be similar, making Egg Wentz a definitive hell no in my book.  Not really sure what you're seeing here that you'd want this guy that bad.  There is a reason the Eagles are likely dumping Went on their own accord, unlike the Texans where they're being forced by Watson to some degree to move him.

I also don't agree that a Watson deal is mutually exclusive with a materially improved Jets roster.  We're maybe talking one pick difference, in an out year at that.  Watson or Wentz, we have enough cap and picks to be fine rebuilding the roster either way.

Ultimately, it's likely moot, since Watson is almost assuredly not coming here, and JD is far too smart (IMO) to trade any substantial assets for a consistently injury prone, career .500 QB like Wentz. 

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17 hours ago, Alka said:

So, you're okay with giving up 3 first round draft picks over the next 3 years plus a second round pick for 32 year old Russell Wilson?  

Hard pass!

huh? i never commented on any trade for russel wilson at all. maybe you're quoting the wrong person?

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9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Agree to disagree.  I want nothing to do with Wentz at any price.  He's not as good as all that, and he's an egg back there, to quote the old Pennington criticism.  He's a 35-32-1 QB.  Who has missed substantial time in almost every season.  And has had as many Darnold-like sub 3,500 yard seasons as good seasons.   On his side, at least he's been a 2:1 TD/INT guy overall, although he was horrible last year in that area.   

Wentz is a few ticks from Watson, yeah, no, and even a casual look at their production shows that.  But lets say you're right, if they're "just a few ticks" apart, the prices will then be similar, making Egg Wentz a definitive hell no in my book.  Not really sure what you're seeing that you'd want this guy that bad.  

I also don't agree that a Watson deal is mutually exclusive with a materially improved Jets roster.  

Ultimately, it's likely moot, since Watson is almost assuredly not coming here, and JD is far too smart (IMO) to trade any substantial assets for a consistently injury prone, career .500 QB like Wentz. 

Not sure what you are reading thinking I want the guy "that  Bad" I'm just making a point that we can keep more draft assets if Watson does not want to come here and Wentz is a good option. 

 

Watson 104 TD's 36 Int's over 53 games 104 QB Rating Missed 10 games due to ACL Surgery 

Wentz  113 TD's 50 Int's  over 68 games 90 QB Rating--- Missed 12 games due to injury and ACL Surgery (5) with other nagging type injuries mixed in.

So is Watson and egg as well ? are their stats so far apart ? I think you may be the one being overly dramatic here. 

Wentz only had viable Receivers the year they went to the SB all the following years he had crap. Watson had above average receivers for all his years except this year.

I'm not trying to make Wentz sound better because he's not better but Watson is not head and shoulders better and both QB's are capable of SB runs because they already proved they can play at high levels for extended periods. Watson has not really had a bad year he's a very solid QB ...Wentz has only had this year and we all know something is not right in Philly right now ....Thing is both franchises have gone from good to total dysfunction and we can benefit from that if JD plays his cards right.

Bottom line if 4 first round picks is the price Houston can take a walk IMHO

 

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Correction they had 60 before the fact that period and came home with George Fant 

Last year was not the year to spend big in FA this year may not be either. I say get a WR and then build the rest thru the draft. When we start to get better as a team we can then start to fill holes via FA to get us into contention

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3 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

4 firsts was an exaggeration but it was more along the lines of what some people "think" might be the haul for Watson. So I was in a way addressing those people as well. 

In the case of the Jets leverage our second overall can add up to as many points as 2 even 3 firsts that some other teams may offer and Houston (if a deal is being discussed) has to know they have numerous options with that pick. I personally think 4 firsts is ridiculous unless they are coming from very good teams that have late first round picks and the future picks will tend to be late 1st's as well since they are already good and adding Watson you have to think those picks will be in the mid to late 20's. 

When it comes to Wentz I agree with you 100% he is a damn good QB there is no doubt in my mind he is also in the top 10 closer to probably the 5-7th best QB in the NFL .... You get him for less and you also get to build around him now with other firsts you still have in the bank the next 3 years also Douglas has intimate knowledge of the guy since he was there so he knows his mindset (inside the building) as well as his talent level.

Straight up I would choose Watson .... with trades involved and what most are saying Watson will be worth I would take Wentz 

Except absent adhering to the exaggerations like this (and others that have gone further), the Jets would still have more than enough resources to build a championship contender around Watson or any other similar-level QB. Big duh it'd be better if that was Fields or Watson (or Darnold) and we could keep the remaining picks.

Yawn with the #2 = three 1st rounders. First trade down twice and then let me see those 1st rounders before listing the real value. First off, it's likely at least one of those would be a future 1st, which isn't equivalent to a first this year. Second, the Jets aren't sitting on three 1st rounders this year as it is, so at least one of those proposed picks to trade is likewise a future 1st rounder, which similarly carries a round less value. Also a good chance one of those is even lower (this year or next year) than the Seahawks' pick(s) that people still complained about being so low when Adams was traded. So it falls on deaf ears when people suggest #2 overall is worth three mid-1st rounders and then fail to qualify that at least one of those isn't really a current mid-1st rounder (#16 +/-4 slots).

I love accumulating 1st round picks instead of putting all our eggs into the one-prospect basket, and if this was about anything other than a QB - an elite, established one with so many years remaining at that - then I'd agree with the price being too high.

I've before likened paying such a price to being a Jets Tax. It's one I'm not happy about paying, but BFD no one likes paying taxes. But until this team isn't a laughingstock - drafting safeties over HOF QBs, and then drafting 4th stringers & underwhelming letdowns (if not outright busts) when we do take one - then it means overpay to get a FQB, and overpay a bit to get an elite FA to sign here instead of elsewhere. Stop being a joke and then this won't be necessary.

I didn't hear a peep of complaints out of you or really anyone using #3 overall (insignificantly different than this year's #2) to roll the dice on Darnold. FFS most people here rationalized passing on both Watson and Mahomes a year earlier - with a lower-slot pick - to draft a ****ing safety because the following year's draft was a better mystery box. Meanwhile no one - not you, nor any of the self-appointed highpickvaluators - advocated turning that #3 pick into "three first rounders" by trading down instead of drafting Darnold, nor staying pat at #6 (or undoing the trade) and drafting 3 second rounders to help surround this new QB once Darnold slipped to us. We instead used 4 high picks on Darnold and then with the next pick drafted some Division 6 DT. Few, if any, complained about the process.

I also don't agree with your assessment of Wentz (grading him as being arguably the 5th-best QB in the NFL). No he isn't. I'm just saying he's not nearly as bad as he looked on a 2020 Eagles team: one that fielded not one half-decent starter to throw to all year long, and typically only one non-backup blocking for him. But Wentz upwards of a top 5 QB? No way.

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2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

I love these financial arguments against coming to NY because of taxes or cost of living

 

Jeter now owns the Marlins and Arod almost bought the Mets.  If you win in NY you make more money than winning in some podunk place 

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50 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

if we trade quinnen williams then yes. our defense was bad last year. if we give up our 4 1sts plus quinnen our team is going to suck. if we get all thos guys to come here, sure we will score more points.....but our defense is going to suck donkey cocks

Watson just went 4-12 with a better team. Why are these Watson fanboys thinking he’s going to have different results here with no first round picks?

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24 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I'm not trying to make Wentz sound better because he's not better but Watson is not head and shoulders better

We'll just have to to agree to disagree, because I don't think it's even that close tbqh.  Watson throws for a lot more yards, at a materially better completion percentage, with meaningfully more TD's per game and less INT's per game, with a massive difference in every-game reliability overall.  

And I don't think the price will be different enough to warrant the material drop off in reliability and production.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I love these financial arguments against coming to NY because of taxes or cost of living

 

Jeter now owns the Marlins and Arod almost bought the Mets.  If you win in NY you make more money than winning in some podunk place 

Yes but the rank and file player is not Arod or Jeter.  A guard who plays for 5 or so years at an average salary of say $1,000,000 can save half a million in taxes.   It may matter to them but yes, the top 25 percent probably don’t care. 

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Just now, southparkcpa said:

Yes but the rank and file player is not Arod or Jeter.  A guard who plays for 5 or so years at an average salary of say $1,000,000 can save half a million in taxes.   It may matter to them but yes, the top 25 percent probably don’t care. 

I was commenting on why Watson wants or wanted to come here.  He and his agent know he can make a ton more money here than even Houston which itself is a large market but not even close to NYC

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 Wentz a top-5 QB in the NFL right now?

Mahomes, Watson, Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Allen.  Can't argue those.

I'll leave Brees off since he's retiring.  And Roethlisberger since he might be.  

That still leaves Jackson, Ryan, Tannehill, Cousins, Herbert, Carr and Stafford as QBs I would certainly pick ahead of Wentz and it wouldn't be close.  Others might argue some of those but it would be dicey.

That makes 13 QBs ahead of him before we get into the reasonable comparisons.  And I'd add Prescott because when he returns, he is automatically in this group as well.  

Mayfield, Murray, Goff.  I think you can put Wentz somewhere in that group.  Maybe include Bridgewater.  That puts Wentz somewhere in the 15-19 range.  And I might be being generous.

YMMV.

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40 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Except absent adhering to the exaggerations like this (and others that have gone further), the Jets would still have more than enough resources to build a championship contender around Watson or any other similar-level QB. Big duh it'd be better if that was Fields or Watson (or Darnold) and we could keep the remaining picks.

Yawn with the #2 = three 1st rounders. First trade down twice and then let me see those 1st rounders before listing the real value. First off, it's likely at least one of those would be a future 1st, which isn't equivalent to a first this year. Second, the Jets aren't sitting on three 1st rounders this year as it is, so at least one of those proposed picks to trade is likewise a future 1st rounder, which similarly carries a round less value. Also a good chance one of those is even lower (this year or next year) than the Seahawks' pick(s) that people still complained about being so low when Adams was traded. So it falls on deaf ears when people suggest #2 overall is worth three mid-1st rounders and then fail to qualify that at least one of those isn't really a current mid-1st rounder (#16 +/-4 slots).

I love accumulating 1st round picks instead of putting all our eggs into the one-prospect basket, and if this was about anything other than a QB - an elite, established one with so many years remaining at that - then I'd agree with the price being too high.

I've before likened paying such a price to being a Jets Tax. It's one I'm not happy about paying, but BFD no one likes paying taxes. But until this team isn't a laughingstock - drafting safeties over HOF QBs, and then drafting 4th stringers & underwhelming letdowns (if not outright busts) when we do take one - then it means overpay to get a FQB, and overpay a bit to get an elite FA to sign here instead of elsewhere. Stop being a joke and then this won't be necessary.

I didn't hear a peep of complaints out of you or really anyone using #3 overall (insignificantly different than this year's #2) to roll the dice on Darnold. FFS most people here rationalized passing on both Watson and Mahomes a year earlier - with a lower-slot pick - to draft a ****ing safety because the following year's draft was a better mystery box. Meanwhile no one - not you, nor any of the self-appointed highpickvaluators - advocated turning that #3 pick into "three first rounders" by trading down instead of drafting Darnold, nor staying pat at #6 (or undoing the trade) and drafting 3 second rounders to help surround this new QB once Darnold slipped to us. We instead used 4 high picks on Darnold and then with the next pick drafted some Division 6 DT. Few, if any, complained about the process.

I also don't agree with your assessment of Wentz (grading him as being arguably the 5th-best QB in the NFL). No he isn't. I'm just saying he's not nearly as bad as he looked on a 2020 Eagles team: one that fielded not one half-decent starter to throw to all year long, and typically only one non-backup blocking for him. But Wentz upwards of a top 5 QB? No way.

Starting from the end of your post I think Wentz is top 10..... closer to 7-5 like I said I didn't say he was top five. I know you can name me 5-6 QB better than Wentz but with Wentz SB year he lit it up and was on his way to a MVP type season so on that alone we know he's capable. And I know you cant name me 8 QB's better Than Wentz taking everything into account including age

With the Darnold pick I remember way back you positive repped a post I made with my concerns on Darnold I never thought he would be the guy but I also didnt think he would completely sh*t the bed either. I did however try my best to stay positive as I felt the kid would at the very least work hard. So yes I was one of the nay sayers before we drafted Darnold since I actually wanted Baker Mayfield.

In relation to our first round 2 over all I know you have seen some of the lopsided trades over the years from teams that wanted to move up and get a QB so yes I am valuing that number 2 very high. Late firsts are in the 500 point range in value and the number 2 over all is valued at 2600 so you do the math. Also that pick gives Houston if they so choose to trade with us the option of trading out of the pick to accumulate draft capital or taking a young QB. No other team can offer that kind of trade. No not even the Dolphins because their 3rd pick does not have the option to take the "next best QB" like the number 2 OA does.

FWIW I don't think this team is considered a laughing stock anymore like we were under that Idiot Macc. Douglas is well respected and brings us credibility so talking about past drafting mistakes and applying them now is not worth the time to discuss. Drafting Safeties when QB's are still on the board and you don't have one is moronic. Its not so much drafting the safety its the fact you did it with no QB and 2 viable ones still available that makes it such a stupid pick

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15 hours ago, doitny said:

not  a bad idea. and they also tell Watson if he doesnt like NY or how they do things there you can demand a trade from them in a year or 2. 

A year or two?  In Watson's case it would be a month or two.

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28 minutes ago, nycdan said:

 Wentz a top-5 QB in the NFL right now?

Mahomes, Watson, Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Allen.  Can't argue those.

I'll leave Brees off since he's retiring.  And Roethlisberger since he might be.  

That still leaves Jackson, Ryan, Tannehill, Cousins, Herbert, Carr and Stafford as QBs I would certainly pick ahead of Wentz and it wouldn't be close.  Others might argue some of those but it would be dicey.

That makes 13 QBs ahead of him before we get into the reasonable comparisons.  And I'd add Prescott because when he returns, he is automatically in this group as well.  

Mayfield, Murray, Goff.  I think you can put Wentz somewhere in that group.  Maybe include Bridgewater.  That puts Wentz somewhere in the 15-19 range.  And I might be being generous.

YMMV.

Wentz played for a team that diminished his weapons every year he was with the team along with the fact the WR's he did have were injured most of the time. When he did have a viable offense that was nothing spectacular but I would consider them good players Wentz was in the MVP discussion with 33 TD's and 7 Ints. Through 12 games Show me one of those bolded QB's who had their team moving forward like Wentz had the Eagles going in his second year. Your going to put Jackson the RB in this discussion the guy who gets shut down in the playoffs and throws for 90 yards when its needed most ? Tannehill ? Cousins ? really ? Wentz has a better than 2 to 1 TD to int ratio. I agree with the 6 top QB's you listed so IMHO that puts Wentz exactly where I said he would be 5-7 and the only reason I rank him that high is because he has done it already and played at an elite level. If we are going to just throw out everything he did based on this year when he played with guys off the street then have at it.

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12 hours ago, Maxman said:

 

Yes, Deshaun tweeted:  JJ hang tight, let's discuss next year at Nonna's Pizza.

The 2019 7 and 9 Bucs say 'sup.

AHA!  There's a Nonna's Pizza in Paramus!!!!!  Case closed, they're both coming to the Jets.

 

Ooops, ther's one in Miami too.  :) 

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51 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We'll just have to to agree to disagree, because I don't think it's even that close tbqh.  Watson throws for a lot more yards, at a materially better completion percentage, with meaningfully more TD's per game and less INT's per game, with a massive difference in every-game reliability overall.  

And I don't think the price will be different enough to warrant the material drop off in reliability and production.

 

 

I'm cool with that War I know Watson is a better QB but I also feel like Wentz is very capable to take a good team where they need to go. So in the case we don't get Watson I would be OK with that scenario. 

FWIW I would much rather see us trade out of the number 2 pick pile up the draft picks, skill players and draft Mac Jones and groom him to be our WCO QB. Rather than spend what its going to take to get either one of these guys. We currently have the draft capital to really build a special team and I would (as would any fan) get much more gratification out of a team built from the ground up . 

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I've before likened paying such a price to being a Jets Tax. It's one I'm not happy about paying, but BFD no one likes paying taxes. But until this team isn't a laughingstock - drafting safeties over HOF QBs, and then drafting 4th stringers & underwhelming letdowns (if not outright busts) when we do take one - then it means overpay to get a FQB, and overpay a bit to get an elite FA to sign here instead of elsewhere. Stop being a joke and then this won't be necessary.

I didn't hear a peep of complaints out of you or really anyone using #3 overall (insignificantly different than this year's #2) to roll the dice on Darnold. FFS most people here rationalized passing on both Watson and Mahomes a year earlier - with a lower-slot pick - to draft a ****ing safety because the following year's draft was a better mystery box. Meanwhile no one - not you, nor any of the self-appointed highpickvaluators - advocated turning that #3 pick into "three first rounders" by trading down instead of drafting Darnold, nor staying pat at #6 (or undoing the trade) and drafting 3 second rounders to help surround this new QB once Darnold slipped to us. We instead used 4 high picks on Darnold and then with the next pick drafted some Division 6 DT. Few, if any, complained about the process.

Great take! I’m just so tired of the excuses year after year of why we haven’t had a FQb since Namath. Watson would solve this issue from ever being spoken again for the next 10 years. He’s only been in the NFL 4 years and he’s top 5. Surround him with talent similar to Buffalo, KC, NO and Titans and watch him go top 2-3. Even with the three 1sts traded there is no reason he can’t be surrounded with very good talent with our cap space, draft picks and very good coaching.

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10 hours ago, flgreen said:

AHA!  There's a Nonna's Pizza in Paramus!!!!!  Case closed, they're both coming to the Jets.

 

Ooops, ther's one in Miami too.  :) 

That would be great if Deshaun had actually tweeted that lol.

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6 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Starting from the end of your post I think Wentz is top 10..... closer to 7-5 like I said I didn't say he was top five. I know you can name me 5-6 QB better than Wentz but with Wentz SB year he lit it up and was on his way to a MVP type season so on that alone we know he's capable. And I know you cant name me 8 QB's better Than Wentz taking everything into account including age

With the Darnold pick I remember way back you positive repped a post I made with my concerns on Darnold I never thought he would be the guy but I also didnt think he would completely sh*t the bed either. I did however try my best to stay positive as I felt the kid would at the very least work hard. So yes I was one of the nay sayers before we drafted Darnold since I actually wanted Baker Mayfield.

In relation to our first round 2 over all I know you have seen some of the lopsided trades over the years from teams that wanted to move up and get a QB so yes I am valuing that number 2 very high. Late firsts are in the 500 point range in value and the number 2 over all is valued at 2600 so you do the math. Also that pick gives Houston if they so choose to trade with us the option of trading out of the pick to accumulate draft capital or taking a young QB. No other team can offer that kind of trade. No not even the Dolphins because their 3rd pick does not have the option to take the "next best QB" like the number 2 OA does.

FWIW I don't think this team is considered a laughing stock anymore like we were under that Idiot Macc. Douglas is well respected and brings us credibility so talking about past drafting mistakes and applying them now is not worth the time to discuss. Drafting Safeties when QB's are still on the board and you don't have one is moronic. Its not so much drafting the safety its the fact you did it with no QB and 2 viable ones still available that makes it such a stupid pick

Top 5-7 literally means as high as 5th best.

Everyone gets the chart points. I can read and add. I'm just not as concerned about an extra first round prospect's point values when weighed against the time in wasted seasons and just/letdown risks associated with all these swings and misses. As it is if the team doesn't go in another direction this year that's another season down the drain (unless Darnold totally reverses his career this year). That means also failures in evaluating those impacted by the position as well, potentially leading to unnecessarily using extra picks. 

But most of all the team moves forward starting now. No more guessing someone (at QB or addressed by a bad QB) bring so because of a supporting cast. No more utter waste of cheap rookie contracts while we search for or break in and/or search again for QB after QB. Like QWilliams has just 2 cheap years left then he's going to be in QB-lite money territory. Half his rookie deal is already wasted.

Enough. If he's available get him and don't pussyfoot around over an extra pick that's unlikely to make nearly the difference a serious FQB does.

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On 2/13/2021 at 11:06 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

Top 5-7 literally means as high as 5th best.

Everyone gets the chart points. I can read and add. I'm just not as concerned about an extra first round prospect's point values when weighed against the time in wasted seasons and just/letdown risks associated with all these swings and misses. As it is if the team doesn't go in another direction this year that's another season down the drain (unless Darnold totally reverses his career this year). That means also failures in evaluating those impacted by the position as well, potentially leading to unnecessarily using extra picks. 

But most of all the team moves forward starting now. No more guessing someone (at QB or addressed by a bad QB) bring so because of a supporting cast. No more utter waste of cheap rookie contracts while we search for or break in and/or search again for QB after QB. Like QWilliams has just 2 cheap years left then he's going to be in QB-lite money territory. Half his rookie deal is already wasted.

Enough. If he's available get him and don't pussyfoot around over an extra pick that's unlikely to make nearly the difference a serious FQB does.

One thing you can say about draft pick chart points is that most of the time the trade exceeds the points by a large margin and teams over pay for the option to draft a QB and funny thing is its not always the first pick in the draft

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