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Analyst on YouTube has Zach Wilson above Trevor Lawrence


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28 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Good Stuff Maury and thanks for the Gif's. 

Theres def some stuff from Klassen and the PFF times in which Fields does take longer then most, throws later when blitzed then other QB's and causes his own pressure more then other QB's. All those are concerning but really what @win4ever explained/showed and you just did at-least kind of makes you see those other stats and take it with a grain of salt. 

As long as his progressions/processing is not a red flag and just something that needs to be worked on like any other college QB(Which I think you guys kind of proved) its kind of hard not to be excited about Fields. 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, win4ever said:

I think OSU system isn't quite the same as the Haskins ones, but more suitable for a transition to the NFL.  Now that's like saying I'm more likely to throw a TD than my toddler, just because it's true doesn't mean it's likely.  You just have to hope that whoever we pick, gets the right coaching and actually develops.  

I don't hate Wilson actually, I think he has some special talent as well.  I think Fields is the safer bet in terms of ceiling/floor but I also don't have access to their mental evaluations or character.

 

6 hours ago, maury77 said:

The hot read question with OSU is an interesting one because I didn't see it much on film. The only example I can remember is here at 6:10:

Definitely didnt seem like they gave him a hot read our routes when I watched, nothing was easy except for maybe a timing out route to the sidelines.  Lots of 4 vert, read the field, make the progression and let it go.  The play he literally shoved in the mouth of his TE vs. Clemson, was his 4th progression, came all the way from the right to the left, and boom, TD.  So, he held to the ball being held but I think that had to do with, they just expected him to figure it out in the pocket because he's that dynamic.   It certainly never hindered his production but I think it would have helped him in a game like NW where he was down some many key players.  That said, I think this is an easy thing to pick up at the next level.

 

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29 minutes ago, win4ever said:

He actually makes some good reads, I noticed he's hesitant at times when a backside defender is trying to bait him.  I think for him, the biggest aspect to learn are the pre-snap reads, because they still do that "set - read - turn to sideline for audible" version of the offense.  That's the one reason I still have Lawrence ahead of Fields, because I feel like he has more autonomy in per-snap reads.  

Yep.  Same here.  Clemson gave TL a lot more to handle at the LOS then Fields this year but a sh*t ton less after the snap, and as you mentioned, even with all the cues from the sidelines, they still never gave Fields a bail out/hot route.   As the past few posts have shown, this is why I've been so dismissive of the nonsensical, "Fields doesnt go through progressions/read the field" b.s. that's being spewed.  If that's what you see, give it up.  He has to do more after snap then maybe anyone in college Football, definitely more then any QB coming out.

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9 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

Definitely didnt seem like they gave him a hot read our routes when I watched, nothing was easy except for maybe a timing out route to the sidelines.  Lots of 4 vert, read the field, make the progression and let it go.  The play he literally shoved in the mouth of his TE vs. Clemson, was his 4th progression, came all the way from the right to the left, and boom, TD.  So, he held to the ball being held but I think that had to do with, they just expected him to figure it out in the pocket because he's that dynamic.   It certainly never hindered his production but I think it would have helped him in a game like NW where he was down some many key players.  That said, I think this is an easy thing to pick up at the next level.

 

Yeah that sounds good but that’s not a transferable thing. It’s the same thing that Haskins did and all those OSU QBs before him and also Tebow. Clearly it’s not a system or style that lends itself to future success. I think Fields has shown great ability but that’s not really a hopeful argument that you’re making.

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6 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Yeah that sounds good but that’s not a transferable thing. It’s the same thing that Haskins did and all those OSU QBs before him and also Tebow. Clearly it’s not a system or style that lends itself to future success. I think Fields has shown great ability but that’s not really a hopeful argument that you’re making.

Ugh sigh, it's totally different systems then Haskins (as shown above) and not even ******* remotely close to what Tebow ran at Florida.  Legit, not even ******* comparable.  lol

No offense, this is the lazy garbage I typically dont waste my time with and why I stopped talking about Qb.  The last few pages seemed to be a little more indepth and then you drop this turd burger.

Not transferable?  lmfao, it's like you havent watched the NFL, at all.

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, JiF said:

Not trying to take anything away from @win4ever he's 10x better then I am at breaking it down and explaining it in a more digestible fashion but a couple of us have literally been saying all the same sh*t about the system and Fields for months when a few were saying to pump the breaks on this TL is generational. @maury77

 

Yeah, you were on this well before I was.  I remember being completely dejected after the Rams win because I was barely watching college football.  Although, as a Michigan fan, I claim cruel and unusual punishment for having to watch the Jim Harbough offense.  

7 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Good Stuff Maury and thanks for the Gif's. 

Theres def some stuff from Klassen and the PFF times in which Fields does take longer then most, throws later when blitzed then other QB's and causes his own pressure more then other QB's. All those are concerning but really what @win4ever explained/showed and you just did at-least kind of makes you see those other stats and take it with a grain of salt. 

As long as his progressions/processing is not a red flag and just something that needs to be worked on like any other college QB(Which I think you guys kind of proved) its kind of hard not to be excited about Fields. 

 

 

 

I think this draft is definitely exciting because there's so many ways this can break.  

1.  Do the Jags take Lawrence? Although it's likely, I'm not 100% sure because of Urban.  Any other coach, and I think it would have been a lock, but with him, I'm not sure. 

2.  Do we take a QB?  If so, which QB?  Do we trade down?  The interesting aspect to me is, do you trade down if you have 2 QBs that you value equally?  If the Bengals offer the 5th pick, at what price is it worth it to risk both QBs gone?  

3.  Do we trade Darnold?  If so, what is he worth to us, vs what is he worth to others?

Usually draft season is pretty straightforward path, but this one has so many diversions.  

I think any QB we draft (including Lawrence) would benefit from not playing right away.  Having that time to actually know the system, and the nuances could go a long way.  I think it really helped Herbert to sit and learn the system, although having weapons helped as well.

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

Definitely didnt seem like they gave him a hot read our routes when I watched, nothing was easy except for maybe a timing out route to the sidelines.  Lots of 4 vert, read the field, make the progression and let it go.  The play he literally shoved in the mouth of his TE vs. Clemson, was his 4th progression, came all the way from the right to the left, and boom, TD.  So, he held to the ball being held but I think that had to do with, they just expected him to figure it out in the pocket because he's that dynamic.   It certainly never hindered his production but I think it would have helped him in a game like NW where he was down some many key players.  That said, I think this is an easy thing to pick up at the next level.

 

Yeah, they really seem to limit the hot reads for Fields, almost as if they are relying on his mobility to act as the hot read.  They certainly trusted him more than Haskins, but his work on the whiteboard is going to be interesting.  

Did they ban personal workouts this year?

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21 minutes ago, JiF said:

Yep.  Same here.  Clemson gave TL a lot more to handle at the LOS then Fields this year but a sh*t ton less after the snap, and as you mentioned, even with all the cues from the sidelines, they still never gave Fields a bail out/hot route.   As the past few posts have shown, this is why I've been so dismissive of the nonsensical, "Fields doesnt go through progressions/read the field" b.s. that's being spewed.  If that's what you see, give it up.  He has to do more after snap then maybe anyone in college Football, definitely more then any QB coming out.

Yeah, once the ball is snapped. Lawrence had his choice of quick reads if things got hairy, which is my main concern with him.  I see a bit too much of the ghost Darnold "lean back, throw while running backwards" type plays from him.  I see some very good plays, but some of those under pressure ones scare me because it can become a bad habit.  

All of them will have to work on pock presence and making reads.  

15 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Yeah that sounds good but that’s not a transferable thing. It’s the same thing that Haskins did and all those OSU QBs before him and also Tebow. Clearly it’s not a system or style that lends itself to future success. I think Fields has shown great ability but that’s not really a hopeful argument that you’re making.

I completely disagree, not the same system.  

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5 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Did they ban personal workouts this year?

To my knowledge, yes...but the whiteboard/inteview sessions are going on via video conference.  So no workouts or running them through team doctors, etc.  

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20 minutes ago, JiF said:

To my knowledge, yes...but the whiteboard/inteview sessions are going on via video conference.  So no workouts or running them through team doctors, etc.  

Oh the doctors one is interesting, because that's going to hurt Wilson.  

I don't get why they banned the workouts, we just had a season of guys playing next to each other without masks.  Then a bunch of people are Lawrence's pro-day, but personal meetings are too risky?  

 

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He actually makes some good reads, I noticed he's hesitant at times when a backside defender is trying to bait him.  I think for him, the biggest aspect to learn are the pre-snap reads, because they still do that "set - read - turn to sideline for audible" version of the offense.  That's the one reason I still have Lawrence ahead of Fields, because I feel like he has more autonomy in per-snap reads.  

That and the height advantage is why I have TL ahead


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Not trying to take anything away from [mention=28328]win4ever[/mention] he's 10x better then I am at breaking it down and explaining it in a more digestible fashion but a couple of us have literally been saying all the same sh*t about the system and Fields for months when a few were saying to pump the breaks on this TL is generational. [mention=28312]maury77[/mention]
 

It’s true. We broke down film on all these guys months ago


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To my knowledge, yes...but the whiteboard/inteview sessions are going on via video conference.  So no workouts or running them through team doctors, etc.  

They banned personal workouts and the team buildings, but they are doing pro days. I wonder if the Jets decide to stay an extra day at OSU and BYU to do an individual workout at the prospect’s facility. It’s only an extra day if you are already there plus Douglas flew out to TL’s pro day.


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2 hours ago, JiF said:

Ugh sigh, it's totally different systems then Haskins (as shown above) and not even ******* remotely close to what Tebow ran at Florida.  Legit, not even ******* comparable.  lol

No offense, this is the lazy garbage I typically dont waste my time with and why I stopped talking about Qb.  The last few pages seemed to be a little more indepth and then you drop this turd burger.

Not transferable?  lmfao, it's like you havent watched the NFL, at all.

 

 

 

 

You’re not wrong, it was lazy of me. I was distracted and went for a devil’s advocate point rather than reading what was going on at the time.

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2 hours ago, maury77 said:


They banned personal workouts and the team buildings, but they are doing pro days. I wonder if the Jets decide to stay an extra day at OSU and BYU to do an individual workout at the prospect’s facility. It’s only an extra day if you are already there plus Douglas flew out to TL’s pro day.


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I thought all Individual workouts were prohibited.  If the jets are able to schedule a personal workout with the QBs after proday, that would be great.

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4 hours ago, win4ever said:

I think this draft is definitely exciting because there's so many ways this can break.  

1.  Do the Jags take Lawrence? Although it's likely, I'm not 100% sure because of Urban.  Any other coach, and I think it would have been a lock, but with him, I'm not sure. 

2.  Do we take a QB?  If so, which QB?  Do we trade down?  The interesting aspect to me is, do you trade down if you have 2 QBs that you value equally?  If the Bengals offer the 5th pick, at what price is it worth it to risk both QBs gone?  

3.  Do we trade Darnold?  If so, what is he worth to us, vs what is he worth to others?

Usually draft season is pretty straightforward path, but this one has so many diversions.  

I think any QB we draft (including Lawrence) would benefit from not playing right away.  Having that time to actually know the system, and the nuances could go a long way.  I think it really helped Herbert to sit and learn the system, although having weapons helped as well.

Yeah, they really seem to limit the hot reads for Fields, almost as if they are relying on his mobility to act as the hot read.  They certainly trusted him more than Haskins, but his work on the whiteboard is going to be interesting.  

Did they ban personal workouts this year?

*Arthur Blank went and saw Trevor Lawrence in person. Anyone else think that was fishy? Perhaps theres a chance they listen for the 1 pick. Maybe they try to get cute and think what about Justin Fields/Zach Wilson at the 2nd pick and the Jets 1.23 pick? 

*The more you think about Sam's contract needing to be renewed soon the more it is apparent we need to take a QB. If Sam plays decent this year he could command over 30m per year and 100m guaranteed. You're screwed for many years if he regresses. A rookie QB is just so much easier to move on from. 

*I think we will debating Wilson vs Fields until the morning of the draft.  Theres just so many aspects to discuss. For example does Wilson playing in an outside zone at BYU give him an advantage over Fields in terms of the Jets?

It sucks not to have a combine in a year where the Jets are stacked with all these picks. Would have been a ton of fun. 

 

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4 hours ago, JiF said:

Not trying to take anything away from @win4ever he's 10x better then I am at breaking it down and explaining it in a more digestible fashion but a couple of us have literally been saying all the same sh*t about the system and Fields for months when a few were saying to pump the breaks on this TL is generational. @maury77

 

You guys were right from the plays shown in this thread. It is just easier to see when these guys @win4ever and @maury77 are breaking it down the way they did which was really informative. 

On the other side when you see these scouting reports on Fields they mostly all read the same:

Quote
  • Poor pocket awareness
  • Can get rattled by the pass rush 
  • Can freeze when seeing the blitz 
  • Must get better at passing in the face of the rush 
  • Blitz recognition needs work 
  • Needs to check the ball down more 
  • Field vision needs development 
  • Needs to get quicker working through progressions 
  • Limited playing experience; only 1.5 seasons as a starter

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2021JFields.php

When you read these things its definitely easy to just go with the narrative. Watched plenty of Fields and Wilson but the only all 22 I saw on Fields was the QB school and a few from PFF/Draft Twitter. But did I like literally watch all 22 of Fields from games and break down plays the way win4ever did up top/Maurys guy did? No. And you really can't understand some of these concepts without it. 

From what you guys have displayed the negatives on these scouting reports really need to be taken with a grain of salt. 

Last thought - From what I am gathering from your opinions these deep mesh plays were called bc they trusted Fields and were going for huge gains. Kind of like he was playing in an advanced system that didn't have alot of these check downs as options like some other QB's would have to pad their stats. I totally agree with win4ever thats its way easier to teach a QB to check down rather then teach a QB to be accurate deep. But is there a chance this system could hurt his draft stock? Bc many of the above negative narratives seem to be based on the system they were running. 

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https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2021JFields.php
When you read these things its definitely easy to just go with the narrative. Watched plenty of Fields and Wilson but the only all 22 I saw on Fields was the QB school and a few from PFF/Draft Twitter. But did I like literally watch all 22 of Fields from games and break down plays the way win4ever did up top/Maurys guy did? No. And you really can't understand some of these concepts without it. 
From what you guys have displayed the negatives on these scouting reports really need to be taken with a grain of salt. 
Last thought - From what I am gathering from your opinions these deep mesh plays were called bc they trusted Fields and were going for huge gains. Kind of like he was playing in an advanced system that didn't have alot of these check downs as options like some other QB's would have to pad their stats. I totally agree with win4ever thats its way easier to teach a QB to check down rather then teach a QB to be accurate deep. But is there a chance this system could hurt his draft stock? Bc many of the above negative narratives seem to be based on the system they were running. 

Honestly, just start watching film, learning and form your own opinions. It takes time, none of us are professional scouts. Post in the draft forum, there are lots of guys that break down film you can learn from. A lot of the guys on the internet just regurgitate crap they read from others.


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*Arthur Blank went and saw Trevor Lawrence in person. Anyone else think that was fishy? Perhaps theres a chance they listen for the 1 pick. Maybe they try to get cute and think what about Justin Fields/Zach Wilson at the 2nd pick and the Jets 1.23 pick? 
*The more you think about Sam's contract needing to be renewed soon the more it is apparent we need to take a QB. If Sam plays decent this year he could command over 30m per year and 100m guaranteed. You're screwed for many years if he regresses. A rookie QB is just so much easier to move on from. 
*I think we will debating Wilson vs Fields until the morning of the draft.  Theres just so many aspects to discuss. For example does Wilson playing in an outside zone at BYU give him an advantage over Fields in terms of the Jets?
It sucks not to have a combine in a year where the Jets are stacked with all these picks. Would have been a ton of fun. 
 


I think the Falcons had a shot if they were at 2, because I think the only prospect Meyer even considers is Fields, because of that OSU connection. I watch a bunch of his Urban Analysis videos on YouTube, and you'd think this guy was still coaching at OSU. I don't even remember one bad word about them, and Fields.

I think the Falcons are going to make a push for 2 though, because both QBs are GA natives with legendary HS careers. I think they will make that push at some point, just not sure the Jets take that risk.

I think Sam's 5th year contract will be picked up. At this point, I think part of the blame is at Gade's feet, so I think a team will pick up that option. However, it doesn't help them to compete as well because the rookie QB salary doesn't help them. I think a team like the Bears are a good possibility. They could package Foles with a pick, help their cap, and still try to win now.

Yeah it's going to be a never ending debate unless some trades happen. I'm not even sure if it helps Wilson because I read they run a power spread or something, really hard to nail down what exactly they are even running.
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https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2021JFields.php
When you read these things its definitely easy to just go with the narrative. Watched plenty of Fields and Wilson but the only all 22 I saw on Fields was the QB school and a few from PFF/Draft Twitter. But did I like literally watch all 22 of Fields from games and break down plays the way win4ever did up top/Maurys guy did? No. And you really can't understand some of these concepts without it. 
From what you guys have displayed the negatives on these scouting reports really need to be taken with a grain of salt. 
Last thought - From what I am gathering from your opinions these deep mesh plays were called bc they trusted Fields and were going for huge gains. Kind of like he was playing in an advanced system that didn't have alot of these check downs as options like some other QB's would have to pad their stats. I totally agree with win4ever thats its way easier to teach a QB to check down rather then teach a QB to be accurate deep. But is there a chance this system could hurt his draft stock? Bc many of the above negative narratives seem to be based on the system they were running. 


I use Walter Football like a calendar. When I can't think of a prospect's name, I scroll down their list. The scouting is useless with them.

I think the reality is that you have to take any of the main stream reports with a grain of salt because they get paid by traffic. It's much more beneficial to not have a consensus ranking, rather make it as cloudy as possible. Fields doesn't read progressions? Mac Jones does! Who is better? It gets better traffic if you keep coming back for clarity. This is why a bunch of the mock drafts will have wildly different picks. After the draft, very few go back to see who got it right. Everyone just googles "Player X scouting report" and see so and so said he'd be a top 5 pick!!

In essence, most basic spread systems have this concept: Find the one on one matchup. A mesh is simply two crossing routes in the same area, which works as a pick play. One of the defenders has to go around someone, slowing them down, thus open pass. The problem is this works great if you are playing a lesser college because the defensive guys just aren't as fast as the guys on offense. When you face a team that can match that athleticism, then you have issues. A good example would be Oregon playing OSU in the championship with Mariota.

So the OSU system seems a bit more evolved, by taking away the heavy reliance of quick routes, and installed deeper routes. In this instance, it's not just about matching up one on one, but more into route manipulation. The defense can't key in on one thing, and jump quick decisions, allowing your receivers a better chance to get open. The downside is that, there are plays which take so long to develop, your QB has to avoid the sack or make quick reads.

OSU throws in another wrinkle from spread, but I think also used by the Pats in having receiver option routes. So a receiver may have the freedom for an in or out route based on the defense, and the QB releases based on that read. This means you can plug in receivers and keep on chugging. That's why you see guys like KJ Hill or Benjamin Victor do well at OSU, and basically be end of the draft fodder. They are relying on the QB to be consistent in the reads, and it's nearly impossible to defend when executed properly.

The downside is that it's heavily susceptible to the blitz, which is what Indiana and NW adjusted. They both got beat down last year, got better this year, and attacked. They would do overload blitzes while dropping guys into coverage, stating the blitz would get there before receivers made their adjustments. This is similar to what Rex did against the Pats at times, he'd attack their weakness and hold them down decently. If they adjusted to a different system, they didn't have a chance, which was why we oscillated between blowouts and competitive games with them. In the NW game, Ohio State adjusted to the run away from the defensive pressure, which allowed Sermon to run wild.

The hard part is, as you mentioned, we just don't have the All 22 to see adjustments from Wilson, pretty much just guesswork.

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5 minutes ago, win4ever said:

 


I use Walter Football like a calendar. When I can't think of a prospect's name, I scroll down their list. The scouting is useless with them.
 

 

Charlie there has Wilson at #32 on his big board (Fields is #6).  But they have Wilson as the 2nd best QB just ahead of Fields.  The site can be entertaining but they are all over the place and rather inconsistent with their content.

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1 hour ago, win4ever said:

I think the Falcons had a shot if they were at 2, because I think the only prospect Meyer even considers is Fields, because of that OSU connection. I watch a bunch of his Urban Analysis videos on YouTube, and you'd think this guy was still coaching at OSU. I don't even remember one bad word about them, and Fields.

I think the Falcons are going to make a push for 2 though, because both QBs are GA natives with legendary HS careers. I think they will make that push at some point, just not sure the Jets take that risk.

I think Sam's 5th year contract will be picked up. At this point, I think part of the blame is at Gade's feet, so I think a team will pick up that option. However, it doesn't help them to compete as well because the rookie QB salary doesn't help them. I think a team like the Bears are a good possibility. They could package Foles with a pick, help their cap, and still try to win now.

Yeah it's going to be a never ending debate unless some trades happen. I'm not even sure if it helps Wilson because I read they run a power spread or something, really hard to nail down what exactly they are even running.

 

Just really odd to see Atlanta send that many people including the owner to a Pro day of a player so locked in for the first pick. I agree they'll be aggressive as you mention. 

The Falcons know how difficult it is to get those top picks and Matt Ryan is getting cut after this season. The last time they picked this high was a long time ago. 

They sort of have to get a QB this year. The whole NFL knows this including Atlanta. Someone is coming up to #3 to take Fields/Wilson before Atlanta takes them.  That means they are staring at Trey Lance and that kind of sucks for them. 

So as we were saying I believe they'll be aggressive. They will definitely have strong offers for the 1 and the 2. The question is do the Jets get cute and think they could move down a few slots and still land Fields/Wilson? 

We prob could land Atlanta's first next year (Top 10 pick) and maybe luck into Wilson? Its Ballsy though and you could get stuck staring at Lance or Sewell. 

The point is people are talking about moving down to 8. I don't think well need to move down that far unless we want to. We could move down a few spots and do quite well. Ofcourse thats if we wanted to. 

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7 hours ago, JiF said:

Yep.  Same here.  Clemson gave TL a lot more to handle at the LOS then Fields this year but a sh*t ton less after the snap, and as you mentioned, even with all the cues from the sidelines, they still never gave Fields a bail out/hot route.   As the past few posts have shown, this is why I've been so dismissive of the nonsensical, "Fields doesnt go through progressions/read the field" b.s. that's being spewed.  If that's what you see, give it up.  He has to do more after snap then maybe anyone in college Football, definitely more then any QB coming out.

Thank you!

Quite frankly it is sickening!

On a side note -------If Fields had been playing against the Coastal Carolinas of the world, had had a horrible season the prior year and had never faced top tier opponents EVER in college would ANYONE be putting him in the same sentence as a College QB who played against the highest competition and who has stats on par with Lawrence????

Think on this... No three teams combined that Wilson faced this year were as talented and deep as Clemson!

Folks are nuts with this stuff.......and I like Wilson but to say that he is BETTER than Fields based upon college tape is preposterous.

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7 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Good Stuff Maury and thanks for the Gif's. 

Theres def some stuff from Klassen and the PFF times in which Fields does take longer then most, throws later when blitzed then other QB's and causes his own pressure more then other QB's. All those are concerning but really what @win4ever explained/showed and you just did at-least kind of makes you see those other stats and take it with a grain of salt. 

As long as his progressions/processing is not a red flag and just something that needs to be worked on like any other college QB(Which I think you guys kind of proved) its kind of hard not to be excited about Fields. 

 

 

 

Fields is going to end up like Russell Wilson and folks are going to say "no one knew"...........................

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3 hours ago, nycdan said:

Charlie there has Wilson at #32 on his big board (Fields is #6).  But they have Wilson as the 2nd best QB just ahead of Fields.  The site can be entertaining but they are all over the place and rather inconsistent with their content.

Yeah, that site is basically useless beyond the names.  

3 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Just really odd to see Atlanta send that many people including the owner to a Pro day of a player so locked in for the first pick. I agree they'll be aggressive as you mention. 

The Falcons know how difficult it is to get those top picks and Matt Ryan is getting cut after this season. The last time they picked this high was a long time ago. 

They sort of have to get a QB this year. The whole NFL knows this including Atlanta. Someone is coming up to #3 to take Fields/Wilson before Atlanta takes them.  That means they are staring at Trey Lance and that kind of sucks for them. 

So as we were saying I believe they'll be aggressive. They will definitely have strong offers for the 1 and the 2. The question is do the Jets get cute and think they could move down a few slots and still land Fields/Wilson? 

We prob could land Atlanta's first next year (Top 10 pick) and maybe luck into Wilson? Its Ballsy though and you could get stuck staring at Lance or Sewell. 

The point is people are talking about moving down to 8. I don't think well need to move down that far unless we want to. We could move down a few spots and do quite well. Ofcourse thats if we wanted to. 

I think they want to do the due diligence for both of those guys, learn from Ryan in year 1.  If the Jets keep Darnold or trade for Watson without the No. 2 overall (unlikely) I think Atlanta is coming with the godfather offer.  I'm thinking picks plus Julio type deal.  I don't think we're going to go for it, but I think that's going to be the most aggressive team to get to the top 2.  

It'll be interesting to see what they do, because I don't think they are a major rebuild candidate.  Their defense improved in the second half I believe, and if they got better QB play, it could really be a decent team.  

I think the Jets only move from 2 if they think Wilson/Fields are the same, and kinda taking the risk to see no one jumps ahead of Miami.  Although after the Mims trade down last year, I can certainly see JD as someone that might take the risk.  

Would you?  At what pick (or player) value would you take that risk?  

If this was last year, almost guaranteed they would stick with Darnold and move down.  Now, I'm not sure.  I think it depends on the value Darnold generates on the trade market.  

2 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you!

Quite frankly it is sickening!

On a side note -------If Fields had been playing against the Coastal Carolinas of the world, had had a horrible season the prior year and had never faced top tier opponents EVER in college would ANYONE be putting him in the same sentence as a College QB who played against the highest competition and who has stats on par with Lawrence????

Think on this... No three teams combined that Wilson faced this year were as talented and deep as Clemson!

Folks are nuts with this stuff.......and I like Wilson but to say that he is BETTER than Fields based upon college tape is preposterous.

I honestly don't understand how Wilson got so hyped, playing basically no one.  It's like looking at Lance last year and being excited he didn't throw any interceptions against colleges I never even heard of.  

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Random thought of the day.

I have a new draft scenario I haven't seen mentioned much but one that I find slightly possible and highly appealing.

Say HOU has settled on one of Fields/Wilson as their highly-preferred replacements for Watson.  But for whatever reasons, either Watson pushes hard to get to MIA, or MIA offers them a better overall package.  Unlike, MIA, HOU might then be motivated to want to trade up from #3 to #2 to complete their draft positioning.  

Example - MIA offers them some combination of picks/players that includes enough capital for JD to agree to swap positions.  This could include a variation of #3 and #35 and maybe a 4th round pick this year, or #3, #50 and a 2022 pick.  That move still offers us a trade-down option, but even if we stay and pick a QB, and extra 2nd would be really nice to go with it.  It only makes sense if we aren't as locked in on one of the two prospects as HOU would be in that situation.  Perhaps one of them is too much of a heathen for Easterby?

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4 hours ago, maury77 said:

Really good breakdown oof Wilson @win4ever @kdels62 @Paradis @Shockwave. I'll post my thoughts on the video later. 

Not gonna lie between this thread and this video I dislike Fields and Wilson more than ever. I just can’t get on board with “holds the ball forever because Chris Olave will always get open 30 yards downfield” and “throws the ball into tight windows when easier players are open” as positive traits.

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1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Not gonna lie between this thread and this video I dislike Fields and Wilson more than ever. I just can’t get on board with “holds the ball forever because Chris Olave will always get open 30 yards downfield” and “throws the ball into tight windows when easier players are open” as positive traits.

I dont think anyone is calling them positive traits, they're just facts, at least in regards to Fields.  Wilson threw a ton to his backs and had a lot out bail out routes available, he just plays hero ball, so he's a little tougher to understand sometimes.  

Fwiw - if Josh Allen can overcome all the sh*t he's overcome to put an MVP caliber season, I'm not worried about an all world 5 star athlete with Ivy league brain figuring it out ie: processing faster or getting the ball out accordingly based on the system.  I'd say the same about Wilson but he's more like a 2 star athlete with the brain of a squid, so probably a lot harder for him to make it.

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6 hours ago, maury77 said:

Really good breakdown oof Wilson @win4ever @kdels62 @Paradis @Shockwave. I'll post my thoughts on the video later. 

I think my favorite part of this flag football game he broke down is when Wilson is eating a sandwich in the backfield, skips the wide open come back and starts directing his WR who is double covered to break off his route and head to the pylon.  lmfao but yo peeps those stats and that live arm!

 

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40 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think my favorite part of this flag football game he broke down is when Wilson is eating a sandwich in the backfield, skips the wide open come back and starts directing his WR who is double covered to break off his route and head to the pylon.  lmfao but yo peeps those stats and that live arm!

 

I mean come on. Fields is also never under pressure. 

Look at that evaluation that ignored the wide open tight end in the middle of the field. 

I think I’m just sick of all this QB talk. 

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20 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I mean come on. Fields is also never under pressure. 

Did you just show me a clip of 2 DLmen bearing down on Fields to show he's never under pressure?  

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Weird.  I could have sworn the knock on Fields was how he handled pressure, now he had the same clean pockets as Wilson?

Anyway the wind blows....doesnt really matter....just throw sh*t out there and see!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Did you just show me a clip of 2 DLmen bearing down on Fields to show he's never under pressure?  

Lol what. If he takes two steps to the right he evaded the pressure because his player gets back in front of the defender and can make the easy throw. He runs into the second guy outside of the pocket. My point is that you’re pointing out a play by Wilson that is praised even tho it is a bad and the same is being true for Fields. There’s a lack of good faith evaluation with these guys and it’s what’s wrong with the QB evaluation at this point. 

 

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Weird.  I could have sworn the knock on Fields was how he handled pressure, now he had the same clean pockets as Wilson?

Anyway the wind blows....doesnt really matter....just throw sh*t out there and see!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Nice straw man argument here. The knock on both Wilson and Fields is that they never see pressure. Literally both of them see pressure at an absurdly low rate. The argument that can be made against Fields that can’t be made against Wilson is that he converts pressure to sacks more than you like and he holds the ball longer when blitzed than any other QB in college or pros. 

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