Crowder to be a salary cap casualty?

[FidelioJet]

35 minutes ago, Icer said:

He's not going anywhere unless we sign another slot WR like JuJu, which would be a mistake

It really is hard to tell, we still don't know a whole lot about JD.  I mean from what we do know there's clearly a possibility he doesn't resign him.

It would be insane but again, from what we know of JD, he doesn't value talent.  

[T0mShane]

56 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

he’s been by far our best player the last 2 years. I would personally keep him as $10m isn’t crazy for him. But I’m confident Douglas will get some playmakers in here at WR whether Crowder is with us or not 

I feel like when you bring Deshaun Watson in, you let him decide what happens with Crowder.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I feel like when you bring Deshaun Watson in, you let him decide what happens with Crowder.

When we bring in Watson we should probably just fire JD and give him full control of the roster.

[jetstream23]

In my opinion, Crowder is making right about what he should be.  This is per OverTheCap.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

When we bring in Watson we should probably just fire JD and give him full control of the roster.

Didn’t you just say that Douglas doesn’t value talent anyway?

[FidelioJet]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Didn’t you just say that Douglas doesn’t value talent anyway?

Well.

I said -from what we know of him-he doesn't value talent.  That may very well not be the case if last season he was simply starting over.  But from everything we've seen from him - he seems pretty high on letting good players go and signing other teams' back-ups.  This off-season will tell us a lot.

I'm not nearly as high on JD as everyone else seems to be.  Maybe Watson would be better!

[T0mShane]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

Well.

I said -from what we know of him-he doesn't value talent.  That may very well not be the case if last season he was simply starting over.  But from everything we've seen from him - he seems pretty high on letting good players go and signing other teams' back-ups.  This off-season will tell us a lot.

I'm not nearly as high on JD as everyone else seems to be.  Maybe Watson would be better!

You’re referring to Robby Anderson here, I presume? 

[Embrace the Suck]

He's a good player. Nothing to lose sleep over though. He's the traditional "everyone else sucks so he's much better than he really is and we must overpay him to stay guy".

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

You’re referring to Robby Anderson here, I presume? 

Well, sure.

But the entire OL, CB's and RB's as well.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, Embrace the Suck said:

He's a good player. Nothing to lose sleep over though. He's the traditional "everyone else sucks so he's much better than he really is and we must overpay him to stay guy".

But if everyone else sucks - you kinda need to keep him.

[Greenseed4]

We don't know how the new offense values the slot but I'd imagine they prefer someone with size to help with stalk blocking... not exactly Crowder's skill set.   For that kind of money, we could be looking at someone who can play inside or outside and be a threat in the red zone. 

A quick glance shows: Crowder caught 59 passes for 699 yards last year (and missed 4 games to injury); Kendrick Bourne who costs 1/3 of that only caught 49 passes and still produced 667 yards.  Is that extra 30 yards worth $7M?

 

[Embrace the Suck]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

But if everyone else sucks - you kinda need to keep him.

Not if you already have plans to replace him.

[FlightBoyz]

U keep him & restructure contract. That is all ?

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Not if you already have plans to replace him.

eh.if you have plans to replace him with as talented a player you're going to have to pay him similar dollars.

If you don't then you're downgrading talent on a talentless team.

This really shouldn't even be a conversation.  You pay Crowder.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

KEEP. The f? Do we plan on fielding a team at all? 

[Embrace the Suck]

1 minute ago, Greenseed4 said:

A quick glance shows: Crowder caught 59 passes for 699 yards last year (and missed 4 games to injury); Kendrick Bourne who costs 1/3 of that only caught 49 passes and still produced 667 yards.  Is that extra 30 yards worth $7M?

Exactly, and slot receivers aren't generally hard to find in either FA or the draft (2nd and 3rd day).

[Jetsfan80]

If we needed the space, you approach Crowder about an extension, restructure, or consider a cut and re-sign of sorts. 

Since we don't need the space, I think you leave it alone.  It was certainly a bad contract from Macc, but at least Crowder ended up a good player and the contract only hurts us for 1 more year.

Cut or consider cutting 1 or more of these guys instead:

• Henry Anderson:  $8.2M cap savings
• George Fant:  $7.4M 
• Alex Lewis:  $5.2M
• Greg Van Roten:  $3.4M

Anderson is gone for sure.  The other 3 are up for debate.

[Embrace the Suck]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

eh.if you have plans to replace him with as talented a player you're going to have to pay him similar dollars.

If you don't then you're downgrading talent on a talentless team.

This really shouldn't even be a conversation.  You pay Crowder.

 

4 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

A quick glance shows: Crowder caught 59 passes for 699 yards last year (and missed 4 games to injury); Kendrick Bourne who costs 1/3 of that only caught 49 passes and still produced 667 yards.  Is that extra 30 yards worth $7M?

[TokyoJetsFan]

He's a good player and a good person.  You sign someone like him and never have to worry about character concerns or not trying hard after he signs a new contract.  I remember reading this article about his relationship with his non verbal autistic brother and just thought he was a good person that you would never see embarrassing himself off the field. When you have to deal with stuff like this outside of football it matures you quickly.

Jamison Crowder’s heartwarming bond with brother transcends words

https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/inside-jamison-crowders-heartwarming-bond-with-autistic-brother/

[Rhg1084]

Would Douglas give out an $18m/year contract to Godwin or ARob and keep Crowders $10m on the books at the same time? I can’t see him allocating that much cap to the WR position. If he cuts Crowder then it’d make sense for him to land a big ticket WR 

[Embrace the Suck]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If we needed the space, you approach Crowder about an extension, restructure, or consider a cut and re-sign of sorts. 

Since we don't need the space, I think you leave it alone.  It was certainly a bad contract from Macc, but at least Crowder ended up a good player and the contract only hurts us for 1 more year.

Cut or consider cutting 1 or more of these guys instead:

• Henry Anderson:  $8.2M cap savings
• George Fant:  $7.4M 
• Alex Lewis:  $5.2M
• Greg Van Roten:  $3.4M

Anderson is gone for sure.  The other 3 are up for debate.

[Greenseed4]

JuJu Smith-Schuster (24) : 16 games played, 97 rec., 831 yards, 9 TDs  (to build for the future)

Jamison Crowder (27): 12 games played, 59 rec., 699 yards, 6 TDs  (to keep continuity)

Kendrick Bourne (25): 15 games played, 49 rec., 667 yards, 2 TDs  (to save money)

 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Rhg1084 said:

Would Douglas give out an $18m/year contract to Godwin or ARob and keep Crowders $10m on the books at the same time? I can’t see him allocating that much cap to the WR position. If he cuts Crowder then it’d make sense for him to land a big ticket WR 

Cut Crowder and we'd still need to replace him with a capable slot receiver.  So unless Douglas believes in Braxton Berrios, he'd still have to spend some money or a pick on that position.  Not as much as $10M, sure, but Crowder is also one of the best in the game at what he does.  

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, Sarge4Tide said:

If they keep Darnold, they have to keep Crowder - him and Darnold seem to be on the same page and have some chemistry

Unless they bring in Ju-Ju to replace. Sam's worked with him at USC.

 

Crowder will be cheaper and as effective.

Edited February 15, 2021 by 32EBoozer

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Unless they bring in Ju-Ju to replace. Sam's worked with him at USC.

 

Crowder will be cheaper and as effective.

 

No free agent decisions should be made on the basis of Sam Darnold, who will no longer be a Jet one year from now, if not sooner.

[neckdemon]

56 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

This would be Crowder last year here anyway. He’s not part of the long term plan. 

he is 27 and has been our best wr for the past 2 years. he shouldn't be cut, he should be offered a fuc*ing deal. why would we want to make our horrible wr corps worse?

[UntouchableCrew]

14 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

We don't know how the new offense values the slot but I'd imagine they prefer someone with size to help with stalk blocking... not exactly Crowder's skill set.   For that kind of money, we could be looking at someone who can play inside or outside and be a threat in the red zone. 

This is a fair point.

14 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

A quick glance shows: Crowder caught 59 passes for 699 yards last year (and missed 4 games to injury); Kendrick Bourne who costs 1/3 of that only caught 49 passes and still produced 667 yards.  Is that extra 30 yards worth $7M?

 

Yeah, but Kenrick Bourne won't cost a 1/3 of that now.

https://ninernoise.com/2021/01/06/sf-49ers-kendrick-bourne-played-contract/

Not really fair to compare production of a Shanahan receiver and a Gase receiver, too.

The idea that we can just cut all of our established playmakers (of which we have very few) and just replace them with rookies when we have tons of cap space just makes no sense to me.

[Greenseed4]

Kendrick Bourne (slot in SF) only played in 66% of the offensive snaps. 

Jamison Crowder played in 79% of the offensive snaps for Gase.  If we were keeping that dumb offense I could see an argument being made to keep him at that price.  But we're not. 

 

This would be like paying a 3rd safety big bucks... because he's good, and he's a nice guy, and he deserves it... and then only playing 2 Safety sets.   

[neckdemon]

30 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

When we bring in Watson we should probably just fire JD and give him full control of the roster.

we should just give him ownership of the team

[Greenseed4]

4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The idea that we can just cut all of our established playmakers (of which we have very few) and just replace them with rookies when we have tons of cap space just makes no sense to me.

The idea would be to spend that cap space on other positions to build out the roster.  Replacing expensive veterans with rookie contracts is how the best teams in the NFL operate. 

[Fantasy Island]

20 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

We don't know how the new offense values the slot but I'd imagine they prefer someone with size to help with stalk blocking... not exactly Crowder's skill set.   For that kind of money, we could be looking at someone who can play inside or outside and be a threat in the red zone. 

A quick glance shows: Crowder caught 59 passes for 699 yards last year (and missed 4 games to injury); Kendrick Bourne who costs 1/3 of that only caught 49 passes and still produced 667 yards.  Is that extra 30 yards worth $7M?

 

Gase was calling the plays so........

Crowder is better way better.

[AlexVanDyke]

1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

We have like 80-85 million. We don’t need to do this. 
 

Crowder is a weapon. Crowder isn’t expensive. Cutting Crowder makes no sense.

Exactly.  I mean the only way this makes sense is if we are signing so many other guys that we would be over.  Most likely we will still be under the cap, though.  Why would you do this to a young qb?  To make this solely about value and $$ is a losing mentality. A trophy is not given so has the most cap room.

[RedBeardedSavage]

28 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

If we're cutting Crowder who are we replacing him with? Letting Robby walk was a mistake -- outside of Mims we wouldn't have a viable receiver on the roster.

His role specifically? Well I'd look at players like Amari Rodgers or Elijah Moore in the draft. I'm not a draft expert but I bet there are many others like that and they can be found late day 2/or throughout day 3 in the draft. 

And I agree on Robby. Clearly, Robby > Perriman. 

But Robby and Crowder are different archetypes. A reliable deep threat/speed receiver is rarer than an effective slot receiver. 

I also think we've got to get out of the mindset of 'we have cap space, we will build through free agency'. That's just not how good teams operate. We will be active, we will sign players and we will cut players. 

Besides, none of us know for sure the surprise cap casualties that could be available in the coming months because of the deflated cap #. There could be other receivers, offensive lineman or defenders that shake loose.

I don't think what Crowder does is particularly rare, and we can easily cut ties, save money and replace him.

[Greenseed4]

2 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Gase was calling the plays so........

Crowder is better way better.

Exactly.  Remember when we had zero WRs, and Gase had Herndon stay on the line to help with max protect blocking?

Our new offense will likely feature outside runs and double-TE sets which would make an expensive, small-statured slot receiver unnecessary.  

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

The idea would be to spend that cap space on other positions to build out the roster.  Replacing expensive veterans with rookie contracts is how the best teams in the NFL operate. 

Those are teams that already have some good players.