Crowder to be a salary cap casualty?

[addage]

1 hour ago, Embrace the Suck said:

He's a good player. Nothing to lose sleep over though. He's the traditional "everyone else sucks so he's much better than he really is and we must overpay him to stay guy".

Maybe,  But you can argue the exact opposite.  Since all the other WR's were poor, the D's could focus on him.  If the team had a better corps of receivers, he would have been open far more often.

[Prodigal Syndicate]

This thread is a hilarious read top to bottom.

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 hours ago, riggy001 said:

He is not going anywhere, if anything, he gets extension, this team only has 4-5 good players, he is one of them

Agreed unless the Jets decide to go all out at the WR position in Free Agency/Draft and think the combo of Allen Robinson/Mims/1st round rookie/Curtis Samuel renders Crowder and his contract expendable. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

This would be Crowder last year here anyway. He’s not part of the long term plan. 

Long term is relative. He's 27.

I don't have a functioning crystal ball, unfortunately, but I think a slot guy like Crowder is less likely to drop off a cliff at 29-30. 

If they just don't like him for whatever reason (e.g. they think he's too unreliable from an injury standpoint) that's one thing I guess. But I'm not getting the rush in cutting him any time before the draft (let alone in February). 

[chad2coles]

Crowder has been great for the Jets, but I don't think anyone expected him to play this year at that cap number when the contract was signed.  It depends on what they plan on doing in other moves, but I'd restructure to the same contract he signed with us 2 years ago and use the money to fill in weaknesses on other parts of the team, o-line, pass rush, cornerbacks, etc.

Cap space is more valuable this year than any other year because so many teams are in bad position with the lower cap.  More talent will be available in free agency and some will be forced to sign for a lot less than they were hoping for.

[QB1]

2 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

If you lock up Maye after cutting Crowder, I don't think the culture/morale will be negatively impacted. 

And just because you can afford to overpay doesn't mean you should - especially for a position that is rather easy to replace. We can find another shifty 5'10 receiver without deep speed to get open in short areas. That's not exactly a rare skillset in the NFL. 

Yea easy to replace, that’s why Hogan and Berrios were our 1/2 WRs for 5 weeks and all of training camp 

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

The JuJu rumors bother me. He's a solid player, but he's gonna get overpaid and that tik tok on opposing logos nonsense was childish AF. 

I think the NFL is smarter than the media/twitter. I don't think Juju gets the money many think is coming his way. 

Cooper just got 20million a year. 

Kupp got 15 million a year

Crowder gets 10 million a year. 

GIven that the cap has shrunk this year, I think Juju will fall somewhere in the 14-16 range at best. I think Kupp is his best comp, he has baggage and the cap situation hurts his chances of doing better imo. Then again, it only takes 1 desperate/dumb GM...

[Wit]

If we don’t get Watson, we will have to overpay players this offseason. If we run with darnold, we will have to waaaaay overpay. 

[chad2coles]

11 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Agreed unless the Jets decide to go all out at the WR position in Free Agency/Draft and think the combo of Allen Robinson/Mims/1st round rookie/Curtis Samuel renders Crowder and his contract expendable. 

If the Jets sign Robinson, I would hope they would use #23 on an edge rusher or cornerback, but if they did bring in Robinson AND a 1st round pick at WR, Crowder would be out.  I just don't think a WR drafted at 23 would be an upgrade over Crowder in the next 2 years.

[Embrace the Suck]

46 minutes ago, SayNoToDMC said:

Let's cut the only guy on offense that didn't look like he was tanking last year

Yup, and I blame him for the Jets picking #2 instead of #1. Just kidding, I can't fault a guy for doing his job and playing hard.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Agreed unless the Jets decide to go all out at the WR position in Free Agency/Draft and think the combo of Allen Robinson/Mims/1st round rookie/Curtis Samuel renders Crowder and his contract expendable. 

Even if they do desire to upgrade, what's gained by cutting him first? At best, go get his replacement first and then release him. I'd be more interested in upgrading Herndon before Crowder.

Absent an upcoming guarantee clause that he doesn't have - i.e. his 2021 salary or a big roster bonus is guaranteed if he's on the roster on the 5th day of the 2021 season - he can be cut whenever, up to the day he's due his next check from the Jets.

[derp]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I feel like it’ll be one of those deals where they dump Crowder, bring in JuJu for big money, then JuJu puts up the same numbers as Crowder would because Darnold is a mush.

I will riot.

I feel like most offseasons we read stuff like “the Jets want to bring in *big FA*” and I get all pumped up and then they don’t do it.

I think JuJu is a mediocre fit for 8 reasons and I really hope the fans who want him are disappointed like I often am.

If Golladay, Godwin, or Robinson shake loose they should get told they’re playing the primary pass catcher role in the Shanahan offense, will get a buttload of targets, and be offered a deal that gives significant money and the opportunity to hit the market again in their prime after being given a ton of targets.

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Even if they do desire to upgrade, what's gained by cutting him first? At best, go get his replacement first and then release him. I'd be more interested in upgrading Herndon before Crowder.

Absent an upcoming guarantee clause that he doesn't have - i.e. his 2021 salary or a big roster bonus is guaranteed if he's on the roster on the 5th day of the 2021 season - he can be cut whenever, up to the day he's due his next check from the Jets.

I think everyone would agree that upgrading Herndon makes more sense in a vacuum. But when one players makes 1 million and the other 10 million, you are having two different conversations. You don't need to cut Herndon to find the money to replace him. 

The Jets may simply rather use that 10 million to sign Samuel for 12 million. Again, I am a fan of Crowder but there are factors like scheme/salary cap that make decisions like this more complicated. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

9 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Yea easy to replace, that’s why Hogan and Berrios were our 1/2 WRs for 5 weeks and all of training camp 

It's easier to add/replace players during the free agency and the draft part of the calendar year as opposed to the training camp and regular season part of the calendar year.

[JoJoTownsell1]

11 minutes ago, chad2coles said:

If the Jets sign Robinson, I would hope they would use #23 on an edge rusher or cornerback, but if they did bring in Robinson AND a 1st round pick at WR, Crowder would be out.  I just don't think a WR drafted at 23 would be an upgrade over Crowder in the next 2 years.

Last year Jefferson at 22, Aiyuk at 25 and Claypool at 49 were already better than Crowder in year 1. And there were guys like Shenault, Higgins, Pittman and even our own Mims that showed flashes and a couple will likely be better than Crowder this year. 

This WR draft class isn't as good as last years, but it's still very good and you can likely find a WR at 23 that fits the new offensive scheme better than Crowder. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

13 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I think the NFL is smarter than the media/twitter. I don't think Juju gets the money many think is coming his way. 

Cooper just got 20million a year. 

Kupp got 15 million a year

Crowder gets 10 million a year. 

GIven the cap has shrunk this year, I think Juju will fall somewhere in the 14-16 range at best. I think Kupp is his best comp, he has baggage and the cap situation hurts his chances of doing better imo. Then again, it only takes 1 desperate/dumb GM...

Always the bold part.

But I think you've got a point. In a depressed cap year, JuJu likely won't get as overpaid as some of us worry/media speculates. 

Strictly hypothetical, and maybe far fetched, but I'd far prefer cutting Crowder, passing on JuJu (any big name receiver), and signing both Corey Linsely and Joe Thuney in free agency. Those would be the two 'big ticket' free agents.

We'd add a few mid tier and a bunch of low tier free agents to the team along with that, move McGovern to RG where he's played his best NFL football, still have a reasonable amount of cap room and draft offensive skill position players. 

[QB1]

8 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

It's easier to add/replace players during the free agency and the draft part of the calendar year as opposed to the training camp and regular season part of the calendar year.

True, that’s why it was so easy to replace Robby. Perriman stepped right in. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 minute ago, QB1 said:

True, that’s why it was so easy to replace Robby. Perriman stepped right in. 

I think it's already been established in this thread that as soon as Rhule was hired in Carolina, Robby was gone. That's not exactly something we can control.

Besides, I'm not really interested in signing the high priced wide receivers. I'd prefer to chase the interior lineman in free agency and draft the skill position players.

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I think everyone would agree that upgrading Herndon makes more sense in a vacuum. But when one players makes 1 million and the other 10 million, you are having two different conversations. You don't need to cut Herndon to find the money to replace him. 

The Jets may simply rather use that 10 million to sign Samuel for 12 million. Again, I am a fan of Crowder but there are factors like scheme/salary cap that make decisions like this more complicated. 

I don't agree, though, while the team is so barren and so cap-rich at the same time. 

My point isn't that Crowder must be kept no matter what. It's that cutting him before upgrading (or even clearly replacing adequately for less, if they can) is impossibly shortsighted to do before that replacement is here. They don't need to cut Crowder to find the money to replace him any more than they do Herndon. 

It's not about player-assessment judgment. It's about risk-reward judgment. Cutting Crowder before a replacement is signed (or drafted) is high risk / low reward move in the short term. All the team gains is a roster spot and some cap room that's not handicapping the team from signing anybody. 

[NYJ1]

One thing that isn't being considered.....

If the Jets plan is to go all in with Sammy, it's becomes more important to keep Crowder. Crowder is really the only WR that has chemistry with Sammy now that Robbie Anderson is gone? If I'm Joe Douglas I'm keeping Crowder. You can't expect Sammy to be a FQB when you're constantly jumbling his supporting cast.

[Rangers9]

I like Crowder but don’t think he’s worth the ten mil and most teams won’t pay him that. There are some good a few great slot type receivers in this years draft. Maybe they could give him a two year deal with incentives that could bring him up to that figure. But he was good to ok in 2020 IMO not above that. 

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

The idea would be to spend that cap space on other positions to build out the roster.  Replacing expensive veterans with rookie contracts is how the best teams in the NFL operate. 

Of course. But you do that once you’ve populated the roster with talent and are up against the cap. Either way you need to hit on your draft picks, but I just don’t understand dumping one of the only productive offensive players we have.

Maybe I need more of a for instance on where the money would be going but I don’t get it.

[DJF71]

3 hours ago, section314 said:

Not unless they bring in JuJu. Play same position, no?

JuJu is just a social media star now.  Not worth a roster spot. 

[Biggs]

I like the fact that he has a 66.29 catch percentage per target with QB's who throw at under 60% completion percentage.   I view the Jets QB's as unable to hit the side of a barn and Crowder as the barn.  With a QB or a protected Sam who might be able to hit the side of the barn I think he's more productive not less and frankly on our team he's very productive on a relative basis.   He's in his prime and has 3 to potential 5 years of productive football in him.   I would restructure him into a 2 or 3 year deal.  

[QB1]

30 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I think it's already been established in this thread that as soon as Rhule was hired in Carolina, Robby was gone. That's not exactly something we can control.

Besides, I'm not really interested in signing the high priced wide receivers. I'd prefer to chase the interior lineman in free agency and draft the skill position players.

Not true, jets low balled Robby 

[flgreen]

4 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Not true, jets low balled Robby 

True.  Anderson was never coming back to the Jets.

 

 

"For Anderson, there wasn’t much convincing on his end to sign with the Panthers. He had his eye on Carolina immediately following the news breaking of Rhule becoming the team’s next head coach.

“I know winning is in his blood and that’s what he’s here to do,” Anderson said. “There wasn’t much he had to sell me on… I wanted to be a Panther.” 

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/news/robby-andersons-special-bond-with-matt-rhule

 

[Sperm Edwards]

47 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I think it's already been established in this thread that as soon as Rhule was hired in Carolina, Robby was gone. That's not exactly something we can control.

Besides, I'm not really interested in signing the high priced wide receivers. I'd prefer to chase the interior lineman in free agency and draft the skill position players.

Carolina offered him a better contract with more guaranteed money and a way to make still more if he outplayed either contract.

There's a reason Douglas openly admitted it's something he regretted, and didn't say there was nothing he could do because Anderson chose another team over us. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Carolina offered him a better contract with more guaranteed money and a way to make still more if he outplayed either contract.

There's a reason Douglas openly admitted it's something he regretted, and didn't say there was nothing he could do because Anderson chose another team over us. 

I always interpreted the vague 'something he regretted' as asking anyone to play behind this Chernobyl of an offensive line.

But I do remember him saying Robby specifically, and I agree - that was a mistake of ours to not offer him a better deal.

But by all accounts Robby still wanted to reunite with Rhule. 

[Sperm Edwards]

29 minutes ago, flgreen said:

True.  Anderson was never coming back to the Jets.

 

 

"For Anderson, there wasn’t much convincing on his end to sign with the Panthers. He had his eye on Carolina immediately following the news breaking of Rhule becoming the team’s next head coach.

“I know winning is in his blood and that’s what he’s here to do,” Anderson said. “There wasn’t much he had to sell me on… I wanted to be a Panther.” 

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/news/robby-andersons-special-bond-with-matt-rhule

 

That's an after-the-fact quote and any player would have said the same once the deal was done, whether it's true or not. This is the same player who was openly cheering on Twitter when he didn't get traded from the Jets at the deadline a few months earlier. 

The Jets offered him a lower and overall worse contract. It had lower guaranteed money yet even the rumored amount locked him in to that amount for twice as long (i.e. they're just fluff years: he could easily again get that amount as a FA if he was producing, but wouldn't see those years if he wasn't producing). 

Also if you want to take Anderson at his word, even the rumored 4/$40MM offer is bull***t "fake news" as Anderson called it (with no one associated with the Jets refuting him). 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2883083-robby-anderson-calls-reports-of-jets-40m-contract-offer-fake-news

Douglas offered him a lower contract. Whether he had his eye on Carolina or not, money talks and Carolina offered the most guaranteed, while locking him in the least.

Never mind the stupidity of turning down a mid-round pick, while the team 1-6, for a player who's becoming a UFA after the season, and do such without making any extension offers to see what Anderson was after.

It was novice handling on JD's part from start to finish. Hopefully he doesn't make a similarly myopic move with Crowder. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I always interpreted the vague 'something he regretted' as asking anyone to play behind this Chernobyl of an offensive line.

But I do remember him saying Robby specifically, and I agree - that was a mistake of ours to not offer him a better deal.

But by all accounts Robby still wanted to reunite with Rhule. 

Robby also was on record as saying he wanted to stay with the Jets on multiple occasions.

Once his injury risk was over, he (appropriately) wasn't taking any offer until he could see what else he could get in March. When that time came, he took the highest offer, which came from Carolina.

The fact that he also said niceties about Rhule is incidental; he'd say the same thing about wanting to return to the Jets all along if we'd made him an offer Carolina wouldn't match. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Robby also was on record as saying he wanted to stay with the Jets on multiple occasions.

Once his injury risk was over, he (appropriately) wasn't taking any offer until he could see what else he could get in March. When that time came, he took the highest offer, which came from Carolina.

The fact that he also said niceties about Rhule is incidental; he'd say the same thing about wanting to return to the Jets all along if we'd made him an offer Carolina wouldn't match. 

We can try to interpret and dissect the "true meaning" ofeverything Robby says, or take it at face value.

Robby said he wanted to return. Then his college coach was hired by Carolina. Then dude said he wanted to play with his college coach. 

I'm not buying into the conspiracy here.

And to the broader point, I don't think Jamison Crowder is some indispensable piece. I'd rather pay Jonnnu Smith, a good blocker and legit athletic weapon at TE for this scheme, pay one or two big ticket free agent interior lineman and ultimately replace Crowder with some savvy, diminutive slot receiver on day 3 of the draft. 

[flgreen]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Robby also was on record as saying he wanted to stay with the Jets on multiple occasions.

Once his injury risk was over, he (appropriately) wasn't taking any offer until he could see what else he could get in March. When that time came, he took the highest offer, which came from Carolina.

The fact that he also said niceties about Rhule is incidental; he'd say the same thing about wanting to return to the Jets all along if we'd made him an offer Carolina wouldn't match. 

I guess you can spin it any way, but Anderson made it clear with his own words he didn't want to return to NY

 

I Was Losing My Love For Football': Robby Anderson Opens Up About Playing In New York

MAX GOODMAN

JAN 19, 2021

•  
•  
•  

By the end of Robby Anderson's four-year stint with the Jets, the wide receiver had established himself as a star in New York. That doesn't mean the wideout was enjoying his time in green and white.

Anderson revealed this week that playing for the Jets took a toll on his mental health.

"I felt like I was losing my love for football," he said in an interview with the Charlotte Observer. "It was days I wouldn’t even want to go to the building like I didn’t like feeling like that ... there was just a lot of things. I just wasn’t genuinely happy there all the time."

Over his first four years in the NFL, Anderson accumulated 3,059 receiving yards and 20 touchdowns with the Jets. An undrafted free agent out of Temple, Anderson quickly blossomed into New York's No. 1 option at wide receiver. 

Then, this past offseason, Anderson inked a two-year deal worth $12 million guaranteed to sign with the Panthers. The 27-year-old had a career year in 2020 with Carolina, eclipsing the 1,000-yard mark for the first time in his career (ending up with 1,096 receiving yards). He had more receptions (95) than he's ever had before in the NFL.

Anderson said leaving the Jets was "one of the best decisions" he's made and that playing in Carolina has been a "new breath of air." He clarified that he never felt close to quitting while donning a Jets uniform, but that it was a continuous struggle. 

"It was a situation I had to fight through and build through and find positivity and also within myself, look myself in the mirror and understand why things were certain ways, and I had to make personal change as well," he explained. 

[Joe W. Namath]

Out with the McCagnan, in with the Douglas.

Love it!!!

Build through the draft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Winning is not the goal next year.  Getting the right young pieces in place is so we can finally have long term success is the goal.

[neckdemon]

1 hour ago, Wit said:

If we don’t get Watson, we will have to overpay players this offseason. If we run with darnold, we will have to waaaaay overpay. 

you might as well get used to the fact that we aren't getting watson

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

you might as well get used to the fact that we aren't getting watson

 

I will never give up on Watson.