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At least one NFL team has Zach Wilson ranked as the best QB in the draft. Update: Multiple teams not only one!


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2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

But it wasn't Fields calling the plays or the scheme they played in . This was all part of the offense Day ran at OSU. Saying that style won't work at the NFL level is fine but criticizing Fields for that is head scratching. Calling them bad habits when in essence its the offense he was put in that's dictating the throws he makes. 

Everyone is saying the Shanahan system is a perfect fit for Sam as it forces him to not think and get rid of the ball to check down options. So why wouldn't this also benefit Fields who rarely had the check down options in OSU's offense. This is not a hard thing to "learn"  but first you have to be given the opportunity to make those types of plays. 

Why can’t playing in an offense create a bad habit? If he got told to do the complete wrong thing in a quick reaction situation and executed that repeatedly, won’t it be harder to quickly react in the right way when it’s being re-taught?

And who said he can’t learn?

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I find it hard to believe that anyone would draft Wilson over Lawrence.   I don't care what some dopey article claims.

No surprise.  Lawrence is a very very good QB prospect and will go #1 overall. He is also perhaps the most overrated QB prospect to come out in the last 20 years.  

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22 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

He will be the best QB to come out of this draft.

Winning those two games will be the best thing that ever happened to this franchise.

If we do the right thing to support him!

Well damn, full out on that one. 

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12 minutes ago, derp said:

Why can’t playing in an offense create a bad habit? If he got told to do the complete wrong thing in a quick reaction situation and executed that repeatedly, won’t it be harder to quickly react in the right way when it’s being re-taught?

And who said he can’t learn?

But your assuming he was told the wrong thing to do , in the context of the OSU offense he did the right thing as there were no check down routes built in. It would be like saying Fields can't throw to TE's if OSU didn't employ TE's in their passing routes. Its not that he can't throw to TE's or created bad habits of not throwing to a TE , the option didn't exist to do so. 

If he's operating the Shanahan offense the check downs will exist and he'll be asked to use that option when needed.

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On 2/16/2021 at 2:08 PM, flgreen said:

I hope that team is the Jets.  :) 

You know who that team is?  No?  Neither does the author of the article, apparently.  What a fun game!  Let's all just make sh*t up and see who gets the most likes!

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26 minutes ago, JiF said:

The played you showed I would consider his check down outlet, but if you watch the play again, it looks like he was orginally supposed to stay in and block and then released.  Fields completed 158 passes on the year and OSU RB's had 17 receptions on the year (Sermon had 7 vs. Clemson and NW) and I'd say upwards of 80% were designed throws to the RB as opposed to a check down.  Are there examples of outlet pass/check down sure but they are clearly quite rare.

 

Really quick thought it would be interesting to compare.

Trevor Lawrence threw 63 passes to RB's.

Zach Wilson threw 45 passes to RB's.

And again, 17 for Fields.

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53 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But your assuming he was told the wrong thing to do , in the context of the OSU offense he did the right thing as there were no check down routes built in. It would be like saying Fields can't throw to TE's if OSU didn't employ TE's in their passing routes. Its not that he can't throw to TE's or created bad habits of not throwing to a TE , the option didn't exist to do so. 

If he's operating the Shanahan offense the check downs will exist and he'll be asked to use that option when needed.

No, I’m not assuming that.

What I’m saying is maybe the right thing in college is definitely the wrong thing in the NFL - but both require quick reactions. If you do the same thing over and over - why I’m calling it a habit - when you need to react you form muscle memory, etc.

Going from hey when there’s a blitz run outside the pocket and make something happen to check it down to this running back requires a lot of things that aren’t really processed and happen in a very short period of time to change dramatically. So, I think he’d benefit from a year of sitting to get there and clean up some other stuff.

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9 minutes ago, derp said:

No, I’m not assuming that.

What I’m saying is maybe the right thing in college is definitely the wrong thing in the NFL - but both require quick reactions. If you do the same thing over and over - why I’m calling it a habit - when you need to react you form muscle memory, etc.

Going from hey when there’s a blitz run outside the pocket and make something happen to check it down to this running back requires a lot of things that aren’t really processed and happen in a very short period of time to change dramatically. So, I think he’d benefit from a year of sitting to get there and clean up some other stuff.

We'll agree to disagree.

As far as sitting for a year : JMO but I feel that especially with a brand new offense there'd be no better time than to get the potential #2 draft pick working day in and day out and growing in lockstep with all the starters on offense. If the system and coaches remained the same I'd be more inclined to have the QB sit and come in later in the season or the next year.  

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6 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

We'll agree to disagree.

As far as sitting for a year : JMO but I feel that especially with a brand new offense there'd be no better time than to get the potential #2 draft pick working day in and day out and growing in lockstep with all the starters on offense. If the system and coaches remained the same I'd be more inclined to have the QB sit and come in later in the season or the next year.  

I’m a little confused as to what we’re agreeing to disagree on since you continue to rephrase my posts in a way that completely changes what I’m saying, but I agree this isn’t going anywhere.

I also don’t think the Jets have the assets to turn over the offense and draft a quarterback this year so I think the offensive personnel is going to see changes. He could learn the system, polish up some things, and hit the ground running next year with a more long term supporting cast. I think some guys are better off learning on the fly but since he seems cerebral I don’t think that’s in his best interest. But I’m happy to agree to disagree on that.

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1 minute ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Douglas putting out misinformation for higher bidding. Smart. I like it. 

Starting to think zero chance Jets stick with Darnold. Adam Schefter and Todd Mcshay all of a sudden switching to dumping him after strongly advocating the opposite combined with Albert Breer tells me Douglas hinted to his friends so they don't embarrass themselves.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

Starting to think zero chance Jets stick with Darnold. Adam Schefter and Todd Mcshay all of a sudden switching to dumping him after strongly advocating the opposite combined with Albert Breer tells me Douglas hinted to his friends so they don't embarrass themselves.

Unless the Jets are really pumping misinformation out there it seems pretty clear that Darnold is out of here.

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1 hour ago, derp said:

So we agree it’s best for him to sit for a year. That’s what I was trying to get at.

You’re kind of quibbling at semantics in what I’m saying. Never said Fields was Darnold. 

Regardless of *why* he ran around in the pocket, we agree that’s not sustainable in the pros - right? I’m not saying he should be good at it yet or he shouldn’t be in play at two.

But I do think the way he handled the blitz in college is in itself a bad habit, regardless of why he did it. You don’t see blitz, think about it for a second, and run around and try to make a play. You see bits and run around. And your point is that was their philosophy was for him to do that repeatedly. What I’m saying is I think that’s hard to just stop doing, especially at the pro level. I don’t really care why he did it.

And I think he’s absolutely more than capable of developing into someone who can quickly pick apart defenses with his arm instead. I just don’t think that happens from stage one. So that, among other things, makes him someone who would benefit from a year off.

Really we may see different things but obviously in general we both see someone who would have it in their best interest to sit a year.

idk man, when I watch Russell Wilson and Pat Mahomes, they do this sh*t all the time and they're awesome.  Josh Allen, Kyler Murrary, Watson, Lamar...I've seen them all do this stuff.  I dont think it's a bad thing if you're an elite runner to beat the blitz with your legs.

That said, I dont think it's anywhere near as hard to adapt to as you think.  It's not like he didnt know where the blitz was coming from, he did, they just handled it differently. 

But yeah, we're on the same page....I'd like him to learn for a year.  

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, JiF said:

But yeah, we're on the same page....I'd like him to learn for a year.  

 

 

 

If we take Wilson or Fields...or smaller chance of Lance. I’d want any of them to sit anywhere from half to full season.

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31 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

Starting to think zero chance Jets stick with Darnold. Adam Schefter and Todd Mcshay all of a sudden switching to dumping him after strongly advocating the opposite combined with Albert Breer tells me Douglas hinted to his friends so they don't embarrass themselves.

Wait, what? lol. Where is this?

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15 minutes ago, JiF said:

idk man, when I watch Russell Wilson and Pat Mahomes, they do this sh*t all the time and they're awesome.  Josh Allen, Kyler Murrary, Watson, Lamar...I've seen them all do this stuff.  I dont think it's a bad thing if you're an elite runner to beat the blitz with your legs.

That said, I dont think it's anywhere near as hard to adapt to as you think.  It's not like he didnt know where the blitz was coming from, he did, they just handled it differently. 

But yeah, we're on the same page....I'd like him to learn for a year.  

 

 

 

I'll be honest, I wanted to find the comparable stat for NFL players and I couldn't do it. My guess is that even those guys take less time to throw the ball versus the blitz - and I think there's an important distinction between blitz and pressure. Making plays with your legs is absolutely a valuable skill set - I just don't think holding the ball longer on average with more rushers is a sustainable trend.

But - I could absolutely be wrong about what the pros guys splits on that are.

I think conceptually the adaptation is straightforward - but again I think the decision to run is instinctive and the mechanics of what you're doing with your body are not the same as throwing. Fighting with those instincts is what I think takes some time. You've done one thing at Ohio State for two years and then three months of limited practice time in a new system later you're supposed to react differently in a split second...guys fall back to what they're comfortable with in stressful situations. He's clearly comfortable running.

Overall though I do think we're on the same page. He needs a little clean up and would benefit from a year. I'm curious if the Jets are capable of making that happen.

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11 minutes ago, derp said:

I'll be honest, I wanted to find the comparable stat for NFL players and I couldn't do it. My guess is that even those guys take less time to throw the ball versus the blitz - and I think there's an important distinction between blitz and pressure. Making plays with your legs is absolutely a valuable skill set - I just don't think holding the ball longer on average with more rushers is a sustainable trend.

But - I could absolutely be wrong about what the pros guys splits on that are.

I think conceptually the adaptation is straightforward - but again I think the decision to run is instinctive and the mechanics of what you're doing with your body are not the same as throwing. Fighting with those instincts is what I think takes some time. You've done one thing at Ohio State for two years and then three months of limited practice time in a new system later you're supposed to react differently in a split second...guys fall back to what they're comfortable with in stressful situations. He's clearly comfortable running.

Overall though I do think we're on the same page. He needs a little clean up and would benefit from a year. I'm curious if the Jets are capable of making that happen.

If he was a run first QB and if there wasnt a bunch of film of him evading the rush while looking downfield, I'd be concerned but he threw the ball a lot more then he ran. 

Look at Lamar, he was a run first QB in college.  Legit, ran the ball more then he completed passes.  Josh Allen was basically a FB for 2 years, looked elite this year passing the Football.  Fields is in that category of athlete and again, has an Ivy league brain and a much much much more polished passer.

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I really don't to sit a guy for a year and watch hopeless trashballl for like a 6th consecutive year. 

2015 was the last entertaining ball we played.

The Darnold era could not have been more of a let down. To the glue factory with him next QB into the flames.

 

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11 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Where on earth are these Mahomes comparisons coming from?  Wilson is if anything more similar to KC’s previous QB Alex Smith

Well, we know who’s going to be very disappointed if he gets picked.

I don’t have a dog in the fight, I just want a QB that wins.

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

If he was a run first QB and if there wasnt a bunch of film of him evading the rush while looking downfield, I'd be concerned but he threw the ball a lot more then he ran. 

Look at Lamar, he was a run first QB in college.  Legit, ran the ball more then he completed passes.  Josh Allen was basically a FB for 2 years, looked elite this year passing the Football.  Fields is in that category of athlete and again, has an Ivy league brain and a much much much more polished passer.

Yeah but it took both those guys time to get there which is the point, no? Lamar took a year off and Allen was being called a running back here until he got a high end receiver and things clicked and he broke out.

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3 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

Here’s a video of Zach Wilson when he played at Missouri.

 

Is your argument here - that Drew Lock was good in college but bad in the pro's, and because Wilson was good in college he'll be bad in the pro's?

Is that really the logic?

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17 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Is your argument here - that Drew Lock was good in college but bad in the pro's, and because Wilson was good in college he'll be bad in the pro's?

Is that really the logic?

The logic is they both have the ball zing out of their hands with similar velocity, they both have similar ball placement, and a similar running style.  They even have the same stupid baby face.  It’s crazy.

...and out of all of their highlight vids I haven’t seen a single dropped pass, sack, or interception. 

The difference is Drew Lock is taller (6’4) and heavier (228), and yet he was still a second round pick.  Still, you look at the Mormon Marshmallow and all you see is a white Mahomes and think he should be our pick at #2. 

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6 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

The logic is they both have the ball zing out of their hands with similar velocity, they both have similar ball placement, and a similar running style.  They even have the same stupid baby face.  It’s crazy.

...and out of all of their highlight vids I haven’t seen a single dropped pass, sack, or interception. 

The difference is Drew Lock is taller (6’4) and heavier (228), and yet he was still a second round pick.  Still, you look at the Mormon Marshmallow and all you see is a white Mahomes and think he should be our pick at #2. 

I find it comical - You note what make Drew Lock good as the reason Wilson will be bad.  It's an absurd concept.

The reality is this.  Lock was a second round prospect that got drafted in the second round - for a reason.

Wilson is a first round prospect that has #1 overall skill-set - for a reason. 

Don't take my word for it - take the word of virtually every NFL scout that watches him.

I actually think he should be the #1 pick - but I sure do hope he falls to us at #2.

 

If you don't like him you're certainly entitled to that opinion but it has absolutely nothing to do with Drew Lock.

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3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I find it comical - You note what make Drew Lock good as the reason Wilson will be bad.  It's an absurd concept.

The reality is this.  Lock was a second round prospect that got drafted in the second round - for a reason.

Wilson is a first round prospect that has #1 overall skill-set - for a reason. 

Don't take my word for it - take the word of virtually every NFL scout that watches him.

I actually think he should be the #1 pick - but I sure do hope he falls to us at #2.

 

If you don't like him you're certainly entitled to that opinion but it has absolutely nothing to do with Drew Lock.

I didn’t say Drew Lock is bad, but I’ll say Wilson is. Kid is going to flop.

He has the same arm talent as the spectacular Drew Lock, but without all that extra weight. 

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Zach Wilson is a probably bust.  Fields is a probable bust.  Lawrence has been and is the only choice if you have the first overall pick.

If the Jets stay at number 2 and decide they want a QB, the guy they should draft is Mac Jones

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5 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Zach Wilson is a probably bust.  Fields is a probable bust.  Lawrence has been and is the only choice if you have the first overall pick.

If the Jets stay at number 2 and decide they want a QB, the guy they should draft is Mac Jones

I think we could trade down and get him between 10-15...if that’s the route we’d want to go.

And no, I don’t think he’s good enough for the “if he’s your guy you take him wherever” argument.

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2 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Ohhh, you just made that part up. Got it. Was confused for a second. 

WTF? Its pretty clear Albert Breer thinks its more likely than not Darnold is traded.

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