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Do we have enough evidence to trust, or not trust JD?


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With the draft coming up, we all have the guys we like and don’t like. Most would like to see a QB. I like Fields, ideally would love to see a small trade back and grab him and get some extra capital. I know many love Wilson, but I am not in that camp.

Here’s my question, based on what we have seen to date, if JD takes someone we don’t love, and for everyone that is different, do we trust JD?

here’s my observation to date, and I’ll start by saying it’s not a big sample size.

I like JDs pedigree and where he’s been and who he’s been with. Positives for me. In the last draft, I liked his approach overall. He seemed to combine advanced predictive metrics along with game type. He didn’t play things overly safe. Coming out of last draft I largely liked what he did. I also like how with trades he has set us up with a lot of draft capital.

on the flip side, outside of Bectin, nothing looks great from the last draft. He was brought in by Gase who is a total sh*t show, and still appears to have a really bad roster.

so, if you don’t like Wilson, and jd takes him, do we trust jd? Same question for fields or anyone else?

Personally I’m inclined to trust him for now, but that could quickly change if he flubs this years offseason.

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There's not enough of a sample size yet, he's done some good things and he's done some bad things. This is the year we'll get the sense of how good or bad he is by what he does in FA and the draft, and with Darnold for some of you.

I'm not on the train that thinks if he doesn't get rid of Darnold that he should be fired. I do however think that if he simply hands him the job, then that is a bad sign. I am not opposed to giving the kid one more chance, but he has to earn the starting job in camp.

Anyway, again it's too soon to tell, this year will be the key on JD.

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17 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

With the draft coming up, we all have the guys we like and don’t like. Most would like to see a QB. I like Fields, ideally would love to see a small trade back and grab him and get some extra capital. I know many love Wilson, but I am not in that camp.

Here’s my question, based on what we have seen to date, if JD takes someone we don’t love, and for everyone that is different, do we trust JD?

here’s my observation to date, and I’ll start by saying it’s not a big sample size.

I like JDs pedigree and where he’s been and who he’s been with. Positives for me. In the last draft, I liked his approach overall. He seemed to combine advanced predictive metrics along with game type. He didn’t play things overly safe. Coming out of last draft I largely liked what he did. I also like how with trades he has set us up with a lot of draft capital.

on the flip side, outside of Bectin, nothing looks great from the last draft. He was brought in by Gase who is a total sh*t show, and still appears to have a really bad roster.

so, if you don’t like Wilson, and jd takes him, do we trust jd? Same question for fields or anyone else?

Personally I’m inclined to trust him for now, but that could quickly change if he flubs this years offseason.

JD was brought in by Gase?

He may have had the approval of Gase since they were both with the Bears once but what does that mean?  JD was the hottest GM candidate at the time, Houston was also trying to sign him.  Dont even hint that the only reason he got the job was because of Gase and we all know how Gase sucked theory

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from what i can tell douglas is righting much of the wrong mindedness exhibited by maccagnan.  he has been emphicizing the offense with his moves and is trying to build the offense from the oline out.  he was also instrumental in bringing saleh in as head coach..  i know there's a lot of concern with newbie coaches.  heck i know i would've preferred a guy who already held the top spot, but saleh has held various positions throughout his coaching career and has been successful while working his way up.  even the most successful coaches have to start somewhere.  and we can say many of douglas' moves didn't work out but this past season was pretty much a mess because of the virus.  add to that the injury bug and gase's bad coaching and it's no wonder the jets finished with two wins.  and it was expected that darnold would've made a jump too.  he hasn't and that just puts another issue in front of douglas and saleh.  the jets may never be in such a position to draft a qb assuming wilson or fields or some other guy checks all the boxes.

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28 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

JD was brought in by Gase?

He may have had the approval of Gase since they were both with the Bears once but what does that mean?  JD was the hottest GM candidate at the time, Houston was also trying to sign him.  Dont even hint that the only reason he got the job was because of Gase and we all know how Gase sucked theory

just like how you said Gase and Mac were getting along...

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3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

just like how you said Gase and Mac were getting along...

Just like in your mind what I may or may not have said before makes what I just said wrong?  

Especially since I didnt have a strong opinion about Macc-Gase or really cared one way or another

Stick the guaranteed thumb you know where 

 

 

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JD has definitely made some mistakes, but he's been working from such a deep hole that you're going stumble on the way up a few times.

I still have hope that his draft class from last year, guys like Davis and Zuniga will pan out with a full season under their belts.  If those guys turn into starters or regular contributors, then his 1st draft has to be seen as a very good one.  You can't expect a team to draft 7 pro-bowlers, let alone starters every year.  

But the reality is, whether or not we trust JD doesn't matter.  We don't have a choice, he's going to be here for a while.

So instead of beating ourselves up complaining about his every move, look on the bright side and realize that him and Saleh can't possibly be as bad as their predecessors.

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Joe Douglas seems to command a lot of respect around the league, as does Robert Saleh. These are different hires than the Jets have made in the past, where the top candidates use the Jets to bump up their price and then they sign elsewhere. The Jets actually landed their #1 guys at GM and HC this time around, both guys who could have their pick of jobs. 

So yeah, I trust in them - not that I have much of a choice, anyway, but I do. 

Exactly my thoughts on the team right now, and ultimately the QB situation also. I am happy with the last 2 hires in Douglas and Saleh. As I’ve said before the coach hiring, I’m all in with JD right now, even if there are some moves I would’ve went a different way, I am (this wording sucks) going to trust the process 

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I trust him....for now. Hasn't been perfect obviously but just certain things make me feel like he can steer this in the right direction. 

-He prioritizes the OL. Believes it starts in the trenches.

-Willing to admit his mistakes and do so publicly (see Robby Anderson)

-Keeps an open mind and doesn't just stick to his inner circle. (see hiring Saleh)

-Values future assets in building the team (Jamal trade)

-Able to work the draft board with trades (Mims) this may have been some luck as well, but ya know what, that's part of the draft. 

-So far, hasn't F'd up the cap situation. 

Free agency is the only thing that's left a lot to be desired but his first go at it was during a pandemic with unknowns surrounding the cap situation. This offseason should tell us a lot. 

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1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Has he given you any reason to not trust him?

For too many members, the answer to this question will be solely defined by "did he do what I want with the #2 pick?".  Nothing he does beyond that will change that opinion.  So leaving Watson aside for the moment, we are probably divided into 3 camps: "Wilson, Fields or Trade Down and Roll with Sam".  So no matter what he does, more than half of this community will think he's an idiot.

 

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2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

For too many members, the answer to this question will be solely defined by "did he do what I want with the #2 pick?".  Nothing he does beyond that will change that opinion.  So leaving Watson aside for the moment, we are probably divided into 3 camps: "Wilson, Fields or Trade Down and Roll with Sam".  So no matter what he does, more than half of this community will think he's an idiot.

 

Either of the first two, Joe will be fine. He’s gonna have a tough selling job for a lot of this fan base if he wants to trot Sam out there again. 

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I think a lot of the evaluation of JD has to lie in how you perceive his FA activity last offseason. If you believe he was doing everything he can to make the team competitive for both the long term, and to field a winner in 2020 you have to wonder about some of the decisions he made. Letting Robby walk for a reasonable deal and putting faith in Perriman was a miss. The CB activity (Quincy Wilson Pierre Desir) was a miss. I think not spending slightly more for Conklin over Fant for a few million bucks per year was a miss. Also the team just generally sucked and there were guys who could have made them suck less - so thats just a miss. 

My belief is JD wanted to clean up MM's mess and remain cap flexible so he had to focus on shorter term contracts. I think part of this is b/c he knew there was likely a high chance of a new coach in 2021, and he needed a blank slate to bring in pieces that would fit the future coach's scheme. That assumption requires some faith and I understand why fans don't want to give that to him, but I think a lot of us knew the odds of Gase returning in 2021 were pretty low - so not crazy to think JD thought that as well. 

Looking at last years draft, I think Becton is a stud and a major position of need and importance - so top marks there. The rest of the class to me is solid. Mims and Hall look to be contributors. Not sure either will be a star but I think both will be at minimum our #2 corner and WR for years to come. That is a win. I think Davis will be a contributor - but that is less certain than the other guys. Mann is whatever. If Perine, Zuniga, or Clark become contributors I believe that will be enough to make the draft a win. I loved Clark, but was concerned he didn't play more, Zuniga looks like a whiff - but hes a 3rd round rookie so will need more time, and Perine to me looks like a jag. If we come out of the draft with 1 stud and 3 or 4 contributors thats solid to me. 

I think hes done a good job finding talent in the bargain bin. John Franklin Meyers was a great pick up. Alex Lewis for a conditional 7th is a win even if he leaves the team this year. Terrell Basham was a nice waiver wire pick up. UDFAs Huff, Jackson, and Guidry gave us more than we can expect for UDFAs. 

I think he has done well in trades. The JA trade was a coup. He gained the most draft value in trades last draft. He was smart to get rid of guys like McClendon and Williamson when he did and get an asset for guys that were goners. 

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt last free agency, but this upcoming year is a big test for him. We have a ton of cap space, we have a new regime, we have no players on this roster who will need to get a big pay day in the next few years - he needs to actually improve this roster with legitimate NFL talent this off-season, it can't be all bargain bin players. He doesn't need to get ARob, Thuney and Shaq Barret, but he needs to improve the talent on this team and use the resources available (cap space) to do so. I believe he will do this, and if he doesn't he should take some heat when the team struggles. 

 

 

 

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If Sam Darnold is the unquestioned starter of the 2021 Jets, I will be calling for his firing.  Barring that, he has earned some measure of trust to this point.  Becton was unquestionably a solid pick.  The Adams trade was an easy win.  The process and end result of the HC search seems to have been a productive one.  It's hard not to like Saleh with what we know about him so far and the caliber of coaches he's hired to his staff.  Only a few select haters have found a way to be truly upset with the job he's done to date.  

This offseason will obviously be huge.  He has a tremendous amount of resources at his disposal and will need to come away with a WR1 and at least one significant upgrade on the Interior OL, while also addressing the many other needs on the roster with smart picks and acquisitions.

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2 minutes ago, RVAJet815 said:

 

Either of the first two, Joe will be fine. He’s gonna have a tough selling job for a lot of this fan base if he wants to trot Sam out there again. 

Which is far better than "If he doesn't draft Wilson and kiss him on the mouth (virtually via Zoom...with tongue) on draft day, he's an idiot"

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3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Which is far better than "If he doesn't draft Wilson and kiss him on the mouth (virtually via Zoom...with tongue) on draft day, he's an idiot"

I mean...yeah that’s fair. ?

Personally, I’m a big fan of the Wilson pick. But, if he trades down once or twice, drafts Lance and signs a vet, that might be a savvy call too. 

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2 hours ago, slats said:

Joe Douglas seems to command a lot of respect around the league, as does Robert Saleh. These are different hires than the Jets have made in the past, where the top candidates use the Jets to bump up their price and then they sign elsewhere. The Jets actually landed their #1 guys at GM and HC this time around, both guys who could have their pick of jobs. 

So yeah, I trust in them - not that I have much of a choice, anyway, but I do. 

This is pretty much where I am. He seems to be well respected and seems to have a plan.

Too early to evaluate his actual moves. It's been a mixed bag so far.

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1 minute ago, RVAJet815 said:

I mean...yeah that’s fair. ?

Personally, I’m a big fan of the Wilson pick. But, if he trades down once or twice, drafts Lance and signs a vet, that might be a savvy call too. 

That is a perfectly rational position to take.  Everyone should have a 'favorite' path.  Lots of us even have paths we don't want.  But there is a huge chasm between "I don't agree with what JD did" and "JD is an idiot who should be fired because he failed to agree with my obviously superior intellect".  This seems to be a hazy line for some of the more extreme personalities here.

It's year 2.  GMs, even the very best of them, miss on picks and signings.  It's not a perfect science and you have to allocate resources in a complex system that creates the best chances for long term success (or short term in rare cases where going all-in is the strategy).  Each move, even the very largest ones, have to be considered in a larger context of everything that is being planned.  If they sign an Edge instead of Thuney in FA, but then draft Vera-Tucker at #23, they aren't wrong for not signing Thuney.  And so on.   And sometimes the plan actually requires more than a single year to become apparent to outsiders.

All I'm saying is that JD, from all appearances, appears to be thoughtful, intelligent, experienced, highly regarded, and so far above the level of incompetence of the last two pretenders that sat at his desk, that I think he does deserve at least another year of trust, even if he doesn't do what we think is the smartest thing.  

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The six year deal for JD  means that he has been empowered to play the long game.  That does not mean it is going to necessarily take six years before we see anything but it does mean he will not we making deals today for fear of losing his job tomorrow.

Other than that, what we fans do or do not have trust in matters not a whit.

Speaking for myself I always have trust and hope until it becomes clear that those are misplaced.  I trusted Macc and before him Idzik.  So far we have not seen enough of Joe Douglas to say that trust is misplaced.  So yes, this fan currently has trust.

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4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

That is a perfectly rational position to take.  Everyone should have a 'favorite' path.  Lots of us even have paths we don't want.  But there is a huge chasm between "I don't agree with what JD did" and "JD is an idiot who should be fired because he failed to agree with my obviously superior intellect".  This seems to be a hazy line for some of the more extreme personalities here.

It's year 2.  GMs, even the very best of them, miss on picks and signings.  It's not a perfect science and you have to allocate resources in a complex system that creates the best chances for long term success (or short term in rare cases where going all-in is the strategy).  Each move, even the very largest ones, have to be considered in a larger context of everything that is being planned.  If they sign an Edge instead of Thuney in FA, but then draft Vera-Tucker at #23, they aren't wrong for not signing Thuney.  And so on.   And sometimes the plan actually requires more than a single year to become apparent to outsiders.

All I'm saying is that JD, from all appearances, appears to be thoughtful, intelligent, experienced, highly regarded, and so far above the level of incompetence of the last two pretenders that sat at his desk, that I think he does deserve at least another year of trust, even if he doesn't do what we think is the smartest thing.  

Oh yeah, don’t misunderstand me. I’m definitely in the trust JD camp for the reasons you’d noted. Even if he doesn’t go my way and brings back Sam, I’ll be willing to give him a shot. And if free agency underwhelms (likely because it always does...), I can forgive that unless he flat out sits on his hands or does something weird. Issue is I’d be in a minority because most of the Fanbase would lose its mind. That shouldn’t matter but in this town, it does. 

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