Tony Pauline:Fields falling down draft boards. No NFL team has Wilson higher than Lawrence.

[Guilhermezmc]

36 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

BYU’s talent was better than everyone else they played this year too.  Lots of QBs would have success in BYU’s offense as well.  
 

Are we going to believe that of the 400 completions that Justin had they were all his “first read”?  Come on now.  

Oh yes Dax Milne a future hall of famer, and don't even get me started on that tight end

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

BYU does not need amazing recruiting when their offensive and defensive line are 24 years old 

So if you take lower ranked lineman, let them sit until theyre 22 (not 24) and poof, theyre better than talented players and they make the QB look better than he really is.

Thats the secret? 

[Guilhermezmc]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So if you take lower ranked lineman, let them sit until theyre 22 (not 24) and poof, theyre better than talented players and they make the QB look better than he really is.

Thats the secret? 

I wonder how he has Penei Sewell as better prospect he's only 20 years old

[neckdemon]

17 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Imagine if a 19 year old QB got better 2 years removed from surgery. Imagine. Also you could check the USC AND Tennessee games that BYU won that year to see his talent forming. Or refer to the time he was an 18 year old playing at BYU who threw 12 TDs and 3 picks. He developed and got better, it happens. 

Or he played mostly crap teams. Against the pnly half decent team they played this year (coastal Carolina) wilson was mediocre at best and they lost.

[kdels62]

10 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

Or he played mostly crap teams. Against the pnly half decent team they played this year (coastal Carolina) wilson was mediocre at best and they lost.

Considering his OL got exposed that game, I’ll need to more evidence before deciding if that game was mediocre. He was pressured on 50% of drop backs in the first half. There were 3 drops that hit receivers in the chest for failed 1st downs and he had 1 completion on a check down went for -20 yards. Coastal Carolina was clearly a better team than BYU.

[neckdemon]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Considering his OL got exposed that game, I’ll need to more evidence before deciding if that game was mediocre. He was pressured on 50% of drop backs in the first half. There were 3 drops that hit receivers in the chest for failed 1st downs and he had 1 completion on a check down went for -20 yards. Coastal Carolina was clearly a better team than BYU.

not a good look if he is coming to a team like the jets who have one of the worst o-lines in the league

[JustInFudge]

40 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Lol...UCF?  The team that lost to Memphis, Tulsa and Cincinnati?  
 

 What does OSU recruiting ranks have to do with BYU being better than every team they faced this past season?  
 

I can see why @JiF swore off anymore QB debates...Lol

lol I got sucked back in...

[Lith]

41 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I can see why @JiF swore off anymore QB debates...Lol

I am with JiF.  I can't take part in any more of the QB debates.  This place has gone QB crazy.  I am just stiing on the sidelines now for most of these discussions until the Jets actually do something to gie us an idea of their thinking.  Maybe it is a sign of the passion of the fanbase that everyone has such strong opinions and won't consider that there could be some validity to a different perspective. 

QB discussions are getting to be as distasteful as politics around this board.

[Greenseed4]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

In 2019, when threw 11 TD and 9 picks...ready for this...he threw 17 less passes then he did this year.  So, 22 less TD's, 1300 less yard, 6 more picks in only 17 less passes.   Bro...that is miserable beyond recognition.

Last year he started the season playing four power-5 teams; he lost 2 games and the other two were won in OT by a FG. 

To boot, he finished the season with a 62.4% comp pct. 

I think 2019 Zach Wilson is the one who plays on Sunday’s, not the 2020 cupcake schedule ZW.

[neckdemon]

22 minutes ago, Lith said:

I am with JiF.  I can't take part in any more of the QB debates.  This place has gone QB crazy.  I am just stiing on the sidelines now for most of these discussions until the Jets actually do something to gie us an idea of their thinking.  Maybe it is a sign of the passion of the fanbase that everyone has such strong opinions and won't consider that there could be some validity to a different perspective. 

QB discussions are getting to be as distasteful as politics around this board.

lol. ultimnately everyone here just wants to see the jets succeed. they just have different idea on how to get it done. personally, i feel that when we lost the first pick we lost the opportunity to draft a true franchise qb. i don't believe in fields, and i especially don't think wilson will last in this league (due to his previously injured shoulders, frail frame for a nfl qb and that he just hasn't had to play against any top college talent). so with that in mind, i want to see us either take sewell or trade down and, first and foremost, build the o-line

[neckdemon]

25 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Last year he started the season playing four power-5 teams; he lost 2 games and the other two were won in OT by a FG. 

To boot, he finished the season with a 62.4% comp pct. 

I think 2019 Zach Wilson is the one who plays on Sunday’s, not the 2020 cupcake schedule ZW.

i think the 2019 version plays maybe half a season (and plays poorly) before he sustains a season ending injury

[Flea Flicking Frank]

3 hours ago, Gutter is a tool said:

Watson has great receivers?  Who were his studs this year? Cooks? Fuller? (Neither of which are studs) Who else.

This is silliness. Cooks has had 5 1000 yard receiving years in his 7 years in the NFL. He would be a top3-5 all time wr if he were a jet. Before that he had Hopkins his whole career who IMP has been the top wr I’m football the past few years. This doesn’t make Watson bad, my point was he has had great receivers who get open and uses his legs when nobody is open. This is largely what fields is. I’d much rather get fields and give up far less and pay him rookie salary than trade the farm for Watson and pay him franchise qb salary.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

He led the league in passing yards this year with nothing at WR to talk about.  

This is wrong

What’s wrong is saying nothing at wr to talk about. Cooks is a fantastic wr. He also had a very soft schedule and played from way behind in most games because their defense was so bad so he played soft defenses most of the game. Why the hell is Watson beyond criticism? He’s a good qb. For the right price I’d be happy to have him. Trade the farm for him and it would be a colossal mistake.

[Jet Nut]

20 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

What’s wrong is saying nothing at wr to talk about. Cooks is a fantastic wr. He also had a very soft schedule and played from way behind in most games because their defense was so bad so he played soft defenses most of the game. Why the hell is Watson beyond criticism? He’s a good qb. For the right price I’d be happy to have him. Trade the farm for him and it would be a colossal mistake.

He didnt have great WRs or great talent around him.  

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

He didnt have great WRs or great talent around him.  

Neither did Sam Darnold according to you and he put up terrible numbers compared to DeShaun Watson. 

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Neither did Sam Darnold according to you and he put up terrible numbers compared to DeShaun Watson. 

I'm praising Watsons play.  

Are you so hell bent on arguing with me that you couldn't get that simple fact.  

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I'm praising Watsons play.  

Are you so hell bent on arguing with me that you couldn't get that simple fact.  

No argument.

Watson did all that on a bad team, shows he's a good QB. 

Darnold did nothing on a bad team, shows hes not a good QB as we speak. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He didnt have great WRs or great talent around him.  

He’s had Hopkins and cooks, his entire career.  This is silly at this point 

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

No argument.

Watson did all that on a bad team, shows he's a good QB. 

Darnold did nothing on a bad team, shows hes not a good QB as we speak. 

What does Darnold have to do with a conversation about Watson?  No kidding, Watson is a top 3-5 QB on a better team than Darnold.  

 

 

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

He’s had Hopkins and cooks, his entire career.  This is silly at this point 

That youre arguing he isnt that good because he had Hopkins before this season is a mind numbing point.  

[Flea Flicking Frank]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That youre arguing he isnt that good because he had Hopkins before this season is a mind numbing point.  

If you would like to continue this, please show me where I said he wasn’t good. Thanks. I’ll patiently wait. 

[oatmeal]

Darnit is garbage water that shouldn’t be this polarizing. Good luck Joe Douglas keeping the pack of wolves off you, if you decide to run it back with that bum and he stinks it up likes he’s accustomed to. 

If the NYJ trot Darnit out there and try to sell us on some outlier turnaround... Smfh would be so disgusting ??

[Jet Nut]

29 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

If you would like to continue this, please show me where I said he wasn’t good. Thanks. I’ll patiently wait. 

Sorry, I was confusing your response to Phil with hes a good QB, my bad:

Fields is a one read guy who needs his receivers to get open before he throws.  That’s a big no no for nfl qbs 

 

Wilson’s injury issues are Chad-esque

 

Your response:

Quote

What you described about fields is exactly Watson. The reason it works for him has had great receivers who get open and he uses his legs. Which is the reason trading a huge ransom for Watson is insanity.

 

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Lance terrifies me because he basically played one year (in the FCS, no less), but I’m on board with the logic. Nobody stays for four years anymore—usually not even three—and extrapolating anything is so tough. There’s a good argument for just taking a freak and seeing if you can mold him.

Right.  That is where I am at.  They all terrify me.  I think I said this in another thread, but I can basically talk myself off any prospect.  I was even a little leery of Lawrence.  Just picking guys that I wasn't worried about, like Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams does not make a great team.  That is why I prefer the bottom of the draft where you are banking on potential rather than banking on guys. Rosen seemed the can't miss QB and he was the biggest miss.  Frankly, the 2 biggest risks have been the 2 best. 

At QB, I think it has a lot to do with NFL coaches learning to adapt to players rather than stuffing guys into their systems - or at least being willing to use athleticism when they have it in front of their face.  That is why I was getting upset that they weren't using Darnold as a runner this year.  He is not Jackson or Allen, but he can put some more pressure on a defense - see the rushing TD vs.  Baltimore.  It made sense to save him when he was an asset you were trying to save.   Now that they have to consider moving on, they should be using every bullet in the chamber.

[redlichtie]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

He didnt have great WRs or great talent around him.  

He’ll have even less here

[Lurker89]

On 2/19/2021 at 11:43 AM, FidelioJet said:

This is precisely the type of post I'm talking about.

There is nothing to support this other than your desire for him not to be good.

The more you carry his water for him the more my desire for him to fail grows ?.

[redlichtie]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

I am with JiF.  I can't take part in any more of the QB debates.  This place has gone QB crazy.  I am just stiing on the sidelines now for most of these discussions until the Jets actually do something to gie us an idea of their thinking.  Maybe it is a sign of the passion of the fanbase that everyone has such strong opinions and won't consider that there could be some validity to a different perspective. 

QB discussions are getting to be as distasteful as politics around this board.

It’s not just QB discussions, it’s everything. It’s possible to really like Wilson and believe he might end up being the best and most exciting QB of the bunch but that doesn’t mean you don’t rate Fields or Lawrence or Lance or indeed anyone else. Just because you’d rather not trade the farm for Watson, doesn’t mean you despise him as a player and want nothing to do with him....it’s just preference

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

What does Darnold have to do with a conversation about Watson?  No kidding, Watson is a top 3-5 QB on a better team than Darnold.  

 

 

The 2020 Texans weren't that much better of a team than the 2020 NY Jets. 

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The 2020 Texans weren't that much better of a team than the 2020 NY Jets. 

They won twice as many games. 

 

[Jet Nut]

26 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

He’ll have even less here

I'll bet that changes after the offseason.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

I am with JiF.  I can't take part in any more of the QB debates.  This place has gone QB crazy.  I am just stiing on the sidelines now for most of these discussions until the Jets actually do something to gie us an idea of their thinking.  Maybe it is a sign of the passion of the fanbase that everyone has such strong opinions and won't consider that there could be some validity to a different perspective. 

QB discussions are getting to be as distasteful as politics around this board.

People who cant differentiate opinion from fact giving their opinions as fact is fun.

I like both QBs and get ripped by people who like Wilson and Fields.  Good times.

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Lance terrifies me because he basically played one year (in the FCS, no less), but I’m on board with the logic. Nobody stays for four years anymore—usually not even three—and extrapolating anything is so tough. There’s a good argument for just taking a freak and seeing if you can mold him.

He scares me too but if we can trade down, pick up extra picks, draft Lance and keep Darnold?  I dont know, so much about Lance says stay away but the physical tools are there.  So if you can turn two 1's into 3+ and roll the dice with one of those 1s?

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

That youre arguing he isnt that good because he had Hopkins before this season is a mind numbing point.  

Your completely twisting words here bud, go back and read my posts in which you started arguing with me. I said Watson is good and effective and that the guy I want, fields, is similar in that he is a one read qb who uses his legs. I just don’t want to trade a kings Randsome for Watson and pay him. I think if you put good wrs around fields he can be every bit as good and far cheaper and you can use those picks you don’t give up for Watson to put talent around him. But don’t twist my words. I never said Watson wasn’t good at all.

[dbatesman]

58 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Right.  That is where I am at.  They all terrify me.  I think I said this in another thread, but I can basically talk myself off any prospect.  I was even a little leery of Lawrence.  Just picking guys that I wasn't worried about, like Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams does not make a great team.  That is why I prefer the bottom of the draft where you are banking on potential rather than banking on guys. Rosen seemed the can't miss QB and he was the biggest miss.  Frankly, the 2 biggest risks have been the 2 best. 

At QB, I think it has a lot to do with NFL coaches learning to adapt to players rather than stuffing guys into their systems - or at least being willing to use athleticism when they have it in front of their face.  That is why I was getting upset that they weren't using Darnold as a runner this year.  He is not Jackson or Allen, but he can put some more pressure on a defense - see the rushing TD vs.  Baltimore.  It made sense to save him when he was an asset you were trying to save.   Now that they have to consider moving on, they should be using every bullet in the chamber.

Agreed on all counts. My big reservation with Lance is that if you’re going to take a chance on a guy with warts, I’d rather he be a guy with a ton of experience but shaky numbers rather than vice versa. 16 college starts gives you basically nothing to go on, scouting-wise, not to mention the prospect has less experience, which (as we’ve seen with both Sanchez and Darnold) you can’t “make up” later. I don’t know that it’s actually riskier than the other way around (see Hackenberg), but the lack of information makes it feel riskier, if that makes sense. 

But as I’ve said before, Josh ******* Allen is a top-5 QB, so who even knows anymore.

[Jet Nut]

15 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Your completely twisting words here bud, go back and read my posts in which you started arguing with me. I said Watson is good and effective and that the guy I want, fields, is similar in that he is a one read qb who uses his legs. I just don’t want to trade a kings Randsome for Watson and pay him. I think if you put good wrs around fields he can be every bit as good and far cheaper and you can use those picks you don’t give up for Watson to put talent around him. But don’t twist my words. I never said Watson wasn’t good at all.

As I said, if Im wrong my bad.

But, look at it from this side.  You responded to someone who claimed that Fields is a one read QB, claimed Watson was similar but benefited from scheming and WRs.  Why you didnt want to pay what it would take to get him in trade.

Watson doesnt need explaining, hes a top NFL QB IMO