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3 Reasons the Jets Must Keep Darnold


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2 minutes ago, fltflo said:


It’s my belief that a lot of the QB decision rest on just how good or bad is Morgan. As I have said in other post, we just don’t know, as there has been so little information on his progress or lack of. JD drafted him so obviously he like what he saw in him. Can he be the starter, that would allow us to trade Sam and even trade out of the 2 spot to really bring in a haul of picks over the next two years. If we bring in a solid Veteran, so many to chose from, to back him up or start if he is not ready. Then draft another development QB in the lower rounds, to allow us to finally rebuild the team from the ground up, using the draft. I’m not opposed to keeping Sam for one more year to see if a strong O line and solid talent RB, WR, to surround him with can make the difference. Yet, not thrilled with any of the QB talent after TL, and think there is great risk pick a QB at 2 this year as opposed to a trade down to fill other needs.



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Remove the bold and I'm with you 100%.  The bold is actually incongruent with the rest.  

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There's been a lot of hype on sports talk media and social media on the Jets parting ways with Sam Darnold in favor of drafting Zack Wilson with the #2 pick. If you're done with Darnold and think Wils

At what point does everyone evaluate darnold by what he does on the field and not by what people think he can be?

At the point when he actually has a decent offensive line, skill position players and coach.

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13 minutes ago, fltflo said:


It’s my belief that a lot of the QB decision rest on just how good or bad is Morgan. As I have said in other post, we just don’t know, as there has been so little information on his progress or lack of. JD drafted him so obviously he like what he saw in him. Can he be the starter, that would allow us to trade Sam and even trade out of the 2 spot to really bring in a haul of picks over the next two years. If we bring in a solid Veteran, so many to chose from, to back him up or start if he is not ready. Then draft another development QB in the lower rounds, to allow us to finally rebuild the team from the ground up, using the draft. I’m not opposed to keeping Sam for one more year to see if a strong O line and solid talent RB, WR, to surround him with can make the difference. Yet, not thrilled with any of the QB talent after TL, and think there is great risk pick a QB at 2 this year as opposed to a trade down to fill other needs.



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Really good post and I agree. Except for the Sam thing, really don't want to watch him another year. Not saying he can't be better, but Id rather it be someplace else. If they decide to run with Morgan, if they believe he can play I won't miss a minute of it. 

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

If you think he has a weak arm its time to check out.  I stopped there.  

 

seriously? all we have seen for 3 years are short 5 yard passes in the flat from Sam. and we keep hearing its the WRs fault. they cant get open.... they cant catch...

then for 2 or 3 games Flacco with the same WRs throws downfield and HITS. Sam comes back and its 5 yard plays again. either Sam has a weak arm or he cant read the defenses, and thats very sad after 3 years.

we always are quick to blame the coaching. Rex ruin Sanchez, and Geno. Boweles is a defensive guy. cant let him train Sam. Gase ruined Sam. ..... maybe its not the coaches and its the QBs we have been drafting. 

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33 minutes ago, doitny said:

seriously? all we have seen for 3 years are short 5 yard passes in the flat from Sam. and we keep hearing its the WRs fault. they cant get open.... they cant catch...

then for 2 or 3 games Flacco with the same WRs throws downfield and HITS. Sam comes back and its 5 yard plays again. either Sam has a weak arm or he cant read the defenses, and thats very sad after 3 years.

we always are quick to blame the coaching. Rex ruin Sanchez, and Geno. Boweles is a defensive guy. cant let him train Sam. Gase ruined Sam. ..... maybe its not the coaches and its the QBs we have been drafting. 

Exactly 

Post game presser Sam Darnold: I need to go watch the tape we need to play better. 

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27 minutes ago, doitny said:

seriously? all we have seen for 3 years are short 5 yard passes in the flat from Sam. and we keep hearing its the WRs fault. they cant get open.... they cant catch...

then for 2 or 3 games Flacco with the same WRs throws downfield and HITS. Sam comes back and its 5 yard plays again. either Sam has a weak arm or he cant read the defenses, and thats very sad after 3 years.

we always are quick to blame the coaching. Rex ruin Sanchez, and Geno. Boweles is a defensive guy. cant let him train Sam. Gase ruined Sam. ..... maybe its not the coaches and its the QBs we have been drafting. 

All you've seen are short 5 yard passes?  And that says he has a weak arm?  

Flacco played one good game, have no friggen idea what that has to do with Darnold.  Not with the same WRs, with every WR.  With the same WRs Darnold had most of the season Flacco was shut out in Miami with a QR rating of 50, comp % under 50%.  

Believe what you want about arm strength, arm strength is not a problem with Darnold, decision making, not forcing the ball is.  

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9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

 

You don’t make these throws with a weak arm.  In the first one, his feet aren’t set, he’s throwing from a different arm angle than normal, across the field, and the ball gets there with velocity and accuracy.

Saying Sam has a weak arm isn’t an opinion, it’s a total distortion of reality, regardless of what you think about him as a quarterback.

Consistently speaking he does not throw the long ball,occasionally he does. 

Blame the play calling blame him, maybe we will soon see something from Sam Darnold we haven't seen in 3 years. 

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13 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Consistently speaking he does not throw the long ball,occasionally he does. 

Blame the play calling blame him, maybe we will soon see something from Sam Darnold we haven't seen in 3 years. 

Long ball isn’t a good determination of arm strength, but for the arguments sake, he had more than enough arm when he flung that bomb to Robby against the Cowboys last year.

Sam needs to improve, no doubt.  Especially if they keep him.  That being said, he has more than enough physical tools to succeed.

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1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

Long ball isn’t a good determination of arm strength, but for the arguments sake, he had more than enough arm when he flung that bomb to Robby against the Cowboys last year.

Sam needs to improve, no doubt.  Especially if they keep him.  That being said, he has more than enough physical tools to succeed.

I agree its the mental tools that are more of the problem. 

INT's and dumb decisions. 

Bottom line I hope Sam Darnold can be that franchise QB. 

Imagine the team we can build with all the draft picks and free agent $$$ not worrying about a QB. 

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11 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

As much as I like Darnold as a kid and think he deserves a chance, you are spot on with that assessment. He should have never been drafted to begin with, with such a short body of work. But he is ours, and as much as we treat people in the NFL like playing cards, we owe it to this kid to give him one last year to see if he can develop under a PROPER coaching staff. That's not saying he deserves to be handed the job, just given the opportunity. I believe if there wasn't a change from Bates and McCown, to Gase you would have seen much better development from him, then under GASE. I'm only saying that with the preface of Macc building some kind of O-Line as well lol...

That's where you're wrong.  We don't owe him a single thing.  

Life isn't fair.  Tough break, kid.  You weren't ready and you walked into a bad situation.  Oh well.  Try again at your next destination.

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4 hours ago, pointman said:

How is a thread about Darnold being a necessity 6 pages long? It should've been two posts: OP making the thread and someone saying "STFU OP". 

This is JetNation.  The place people come to defend sh*tty QB's, through impressive mental gymnastics.

QB's breaking records all over the place across the league, but to some, the mean old Jets are fully responsible for why Darnold can't even break 200 in a game.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This is JetNation.  The place people come to defend sh*tty QB's, through impressive mental gymnastics.

QB's breaking records all over the place across the league, but to some, the mean old Jets are fully responsible for why Darnold can't even break 200 in a game.

You're mean. Sam just needs 5 or 6 more years with more weaponz. He will crack that elusive 2,500 yard mark (maybe). Hater. 

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Just now, pointman said:

You're mean. Sam just needs 5 or 6 more years with more weaponz. He will crack that elusive 2,500 yard mark (maybe). Hater. 

Surround him with Pro Bowlers and he'll be QB24.  Then what, hater???  

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4 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Long ball isn’t a good determination of arm strength, but for the arguments sake, he had more than enough arm when he flung that bomb to Robby against the Cowboys last year.

Sam needs to improve, no doubt.  Especially if they keep him.  That being said, he has more than enough physical tools to succeed.

But we're not keeping him so its a moot point, right Mogglez? Mogglez, right? RIGHT??! 

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10 hours ago, doitny said:

we always are quick to blame the coaching. Rex ruin Sanchez, and Geno. Boweles is a defensive guy. cant let him train Sam. Gase ruined Sam. ..... maybe its not the coaches and its the QBs we have been drafting. 

I am always loathe to respond to posts like this because I in truth know you mean well but ....

It was the Jets Organization and coaching staff that started Mark Sanchez when his own college coach Pete Carroll specifically said that Sanchez wasn’t ready to start but the Jets being the smartest folks in the NFL started him anyway and the then red arm band 123 coaching he received was a joke. 

Next Geno Smith had obvious maturity problems BEFORE HE WAS DRAFTED and it is specifically why he slid down the draft board like rock despite his talent.   It was said by 90% of all draft analysts that Smith despite his talent should sit and learn because he wasn’t ready to lead so what do the Jets do?

They start Smith again anyway despite what everyone in the NFL knew because again the Jets Organization and coaching staff is smarter than anyone else. Smith basically was finished as the Jets QB when his own teammate broke his joke for being what??  IMMATURE!!

Finally, the Jets draft Sam Darnold everyone and I mean everyone said that Darnold is talented can make spectacular throws, he can, but he NEEDS coaching cause he is raw. 
 

The Jets proceed to hire an OC in Bates who had literally been hiking in the wilderness to find himself before he took the job! Then after one year they fire him and bring in Adam Gase who was successful at developing NO ONE as a QB at any level and who ran a totally different system from Bates and whose system was totally at odds with Darnold’s skill set.  Oh and so they could “develop” him they decide to have no QB coach like every other team in the NFL does!

Couple this with the worst OL in the NFL which dates back to when Smith was under center and you couldn’t have scripted a better way to undermine the youngest starting QB in NFL history!

Think you mean the Jets didn’t know that Darnold would need a competent OL before they drafted him? Or RBs? Or WRs? Or TEs?

This is incompetence at its finest  Does this absolve Darnold from his stinky play?

No it does not but it does say Johnny Unitas couldn’t have been successful with such foolishness  going on  

This isn’t an accident of players it is an persistent and systematic organizational failure on the Jets part!

I am just ecstatic that for once we have a GM in JD who appears to know what he is doing and it appears that ownership is allowing him to do it; along with a new HC in Robert Saleh who doesn’t have to hide his eyes under a cap least we think we have a crazy man at the helm  

 

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On 2/19/2021 at 11:05 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

The owner of the Cardinals, who allowed his GM (Steve Keim) to draft Josh Rosen in 2018 and then Kyler Murray in 2019?

It's not a "diamond in the rough" GM's are looking for.  It's a competent, pro-ready starter, which Rosen was billed to be.  It didn't work out, but they made it work not by doubling down on a failure but by "failing quickly", getting rid of him, and drafting a different one.

An owner who gives his GM that kind of leash is far more likely to find success than the one that demands his GM to continue honor a sunken cost at QB and try to build around a bad QB.  That's how you get a situation like the Bears, where they kept trying with Trubisky for 4 years and are now stuck with Nick Foles as their projected Week 1 starter in 2021.  Or the early 2010's Jets, who kept trying to build around Mark Sanchez.

Ok you gave one team for an example? I guess you schooled me. By the way, if the Cardinals would've been agressive and traded up for Josh Allen in stead of being passive and letting Buffalo leap frog them then they wouldn't have had to waste their 1 round pick on Rosen. What makes it worse is that they traded up to get him. So, their dumb asses traded up anyway so they should have just traded up for Allen instead.

As far as the Bears' QB mess, their dumb asses passed on Watson and traded up for Trubisky so they put their own selves in that mess. And as far as the Jets go...do I really need to go there, bro? 

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It's nice to see so many post on this tread. I appreciate your opinions even if I don't agree. I'm just curious about why all of you who bashed Darnold haven't made a compelling argument for Wilson?

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14 hours ago, pointman said:

How is a thread about Darnold being a necessity 6 pages long? It should've been two posts: OP making the thread and someone saying "STFU OP". 

Well, you came and posted something so there's your answer.

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6 hours ago, Philc1 said:

The main reason we need to keep Sam is the QBs in this draft class SUCK

Do they.  Could they be equal or better than Sam Darnold. 

In a perfect world Sam Darnold turns things around and we use all the draft picks and free agency $$$$ and build a winner. 

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22 hours ago, Mogglez said:

 

You don’t make these throws with a weak arm.  In the first one, his feet aren’t set, he’s throwing from a different arm angle than normal, across the field, and the ball gets there with velocity and accuracy.

Saying Sam has a weak arm isn’t an opinion, it’s a total distortion of reality, regardless of what you think about him as a quarterback.

Sam has a live arm.  Calling him Chad Pennington is utter nonsense 

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1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Do they.  Could they be equal or better than Sam Darnold. 

In a perfect world Sam Darnold turns things around and we use all the draft picks and free agency $$$$ and build a winner. 

In this world Sam is better than the QBs in this draft

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23 hours ago, Mogglez said:

 

You don’t make these throws with a weak arm.  In the first one, his feet aren’t set, he’s throwing from a different arm angle than normal, across the field, and the ball gets there with velocity and accuracy.

Saying Sam has a weak arm isn’t an opinion, it’s a total distortion of reality, regardless of what you think about him as a quarterback.

Proof is in the video. Thank you

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11 hours ago, STLuLu said:

Ok you gave one team for an example? I guess you schooled me. By the way, if the Cardinals would've been agressive and traded up for Josh Allen in stead of being passive and letting Buffalo leap frog them then they wouldn't have had to waste their 1 round pick on Rosen. What makes it worse is that they traded up to get him. So, their dumb asses traded up anyway so they should have just traded up for Allen instead.

As far as the Bears' QB mess, their dumb asses passed on Watson and traded up for Trubisky so they put their own selves in that mess. And as far as the Jets go...do I really need to go there, bro? 

It's one example but a significant one.  It demonstrates that a willingness to "fail quickly" is one that can work in this league.  Just because teams don't do it often doesn't make it a bad way to operate.  Many, many teams have honored sunken costs at QB and had it blow up in their faces.  Meanwhile, there are very few teams who gave up on a bad QB "too quickly" and watched him succeed elsewhere.

With the way the CBA is set up, you can draft a QB in the 1st within 1-2 years after picking one in the 1st and have it work out OK.  That wasn't the case as recently as 2010. when highly picked QB's got paid a lot more.  

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19 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

I am always loathe to respond to posts like this because I in truth know you mean well but ....

It was the Jets Organization and coaching staff that started Mark Sanchez when his own college coach Pete Carroll specifically said that Sanchez wasn’t ready to start but the Jets being the smartest folks in the NFL started him anyway and the then red arm band 123 coaching he received was a joke. 

Next Geno Smith had obvious maturity problems BEFORE HE WAS DRAFTED and it is specifically why he slid down the draft board like rock despite his talent.   It was said by 90% of all draft analysts that Smith despite his talent should sit and learn because he wasn’t ready to lead so what do the Jets do?

They start Smith again anyway despite what everyone in the NFL knew because again the Jets Organization and coaching staff is smarter than anyone else. Smith basically was finished as the Jets QB when his own teammate broke his joke for being what??  IMMATURE!!

Finally, the Jets draft Sam Darnold everyone and I mean everyone said that Darnold is talented can make spectacular throws, he can, but he NEEDS coaching cause he is raw. 
 

The Jets proceed to hire an OC in Bates who had literally been hiking in the wilderness to find himself before he took the job! Then after one year they fire him and bring in Adam Gase who was successful at developing NO ONE as a QB at any level and who ran a totally different system from Bates and whose system was totally at odds with Darnold’s skill set.  Oh and so they could “develop” him they decide to have no QB coach like every other team in the NFL does!

Couple this with the worst OL in the NFL which dates back to when Smith was under center and you couldn’t have scripted a better way to undermine the youngest starting QB in NFL history!

Think you mean the Jets didn’t know that Darnold would need a competent OL before they drafted him? Or RBs? Or WRs? Or TEs?

This is incompetence at its finest  Does this absolve Darnold from his stinky play?

No it does not but it does say Johnny Unitas couldn’t have been successful with such foolishness  going on  

This isn’t an accident of players it is an persistent and systematic organizational failure on the Jets part!

I am just ecstatic that for once we have a GM in JD who appears to know what he is doing and it appears that ownership is allowing him to do it; along with a new HC in Robert Saleh who doesn’t have to hide his eyes under a cap least we think we have a crazy man at the helm  

 

i dont agree that there is some kinda QB whisperer.

and what is coaching? teaching to read defenses. think about it. accept for that everything else are basics and QBs have been learning that stuff in college. when to get rid of the ball, there foot work.

Rex, Bowels, Gase. we didnt get them off a HS team. they have been in the NFL for at least a decade or more. they know how to read a defense. they know what a QB has to do to beat those coverages. sometimes its on the players when they dont execute. there is alot to blame a HC on, teaching there players basic stuff is not one of them.

funny how nobody thought Sanchez needed to be sit those first 2 years. or his coaching was bad. Carroll was wrong on that. if he wasnt we dont go to those 2 AFCC games. Sanchez doesnt beat Payton and Brady in 2010 on the road, throws 3 TDs against the Pats in NE. 

how many games did you want him to sit? 2....5....10??? do we go to the playoffs in 2009 if Kellen Clemens is starting a bunch of games? does that prevent the butt fumble 4 years later? or his demise? you cant say Sanchez should have sat and we were wrong to start him when he had the 2 best years of his career. now if he was 2-10 then you have a point.

with Geno we had no choice. if Sanchez doesnt get hurt in the last preseason game then hes the starter. and yes that was a horrible decision by Rex to start Sanchez against the Giants. but again, whats our option? Matt Simms was the other QB. and since Mark and Geno were getting all the snaps in preseason Simms wasnt ready even if we wanted to.

most teams i think believe as i do the best experience is to play and not sit. Mayfield started in his 3rd game. Allen his 2nd. then got benched in wk 7 and started wk 12. nobody sits anymore. not if your drafted in the high 1st rd. i guess thats because your other options at QB are worst than your new rookie QB. 

you make some good points on Sam. but Sam won 7 games last year. he started looking good. his stock was on the rise. and IMO the OL was better this year than last. especially the last 6 weeks. now i will be fair and not judge Sam until he came back from injury cause thats when he had all his WRs at the same time. plus the OL was brutal in the first half. Sam had two 6 sack games.

you cant tell me Flacco didnt look better than Sam with the same team. and to be fair i count Flaccos last 2 games cause thats we he had all 3 WRs. Sam regressed. was that because he didnt sit X amount of games 2 years ago? or because he didnt have a QB coach. that may be a disadvantage but after his performance last year he overcame it.

 

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44 minutes ago, doitny said:

i dont agree that there is some kinda QB whisperer.

with Geno we had no choice. if Sanchez doesnt get hurt in the last preseason game then hes the starter. and yes that was a horrible decision by Rex to start Sanchez against the Giants. but again, whats our option? Matt Simms was the other QB. and since Mark and Geno were getting all the snaps in preseason Simms wasnt ready even if we wanted to.

most teams i think believe as i do the best experience is to play and not sit. Mayfield started in his 3rd game. Allen his 2nd. then got benched in wk 7 and started wk 12. nobody sits anymore. not if your drafted in the high 1st rd. i guess thats because your other options at QB are worst than your new rookie QB. 

you make some good points on Sam. but Sam won 7 games last year. he started looking good. his stock was on the rise. and IMO the OL was better this year than last. especially the last 6 weeks. now i will be fair and not judge Sam until he came back from injury cause thats when he had all his WRs at the same time. plus the OL was brutal in the first half. Sam had two 6 sack games.

you cant tell me Flacco didnt look better than Sam with the same team. and to be fair i count Flaccos last 2 games cause thats we he had all 3 WRs. Sam regressed. was that because he didnt sit X amount of games 2 years ago? or because he didnt have a QB coach. that may be a disadvantage but after his performance last year he overcame it.

 

Every point you make in this well thought out post is valid; every one......

However, I say siting is OK too..

There is no one shoe fits all approach.  I already have said elsewhere that I would start Lawrence for example....

However, if sitting was alright for Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers & Mahomes then it isn't a bad thing for far INFERIOR QBs like Mark Sanchez, Geno (Glass Jaw) Smith and Sam Darnold! 

Especially when these latter players specifically, Smith & Darnold were on awful teams for a young QB!

And yes....Flacco did play better than Darnold.

 So.....  I am not Sam's dad..

If the Jets decide to move on from Darnold I am OK with that....... 

And If the Jets decide to draft Wilson or Fields I am Ok with that........and if the Jets take my wise ADVICE :) and trade down a few slots and draft Trey Lance I will be ecstatic! 

But at the end of the day I see a Jets' Organization that isn't acting like Beginners Night at the Apollo and I for one just can't get enough of this COMPETENT vibe for the first time since Parcells was hired!

Image result for steve martin happy feet gif

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On 2/20/2021 at 11:51 AM, doitny said:

seriously? all we have seen for 3 years are short 5 yard passes in the flat from Sam. and we keep hearing its the WRs fault. they cant get open.... they cant catch...

then for 2 or 3 games Flacco with the same WRs throws downfield and HITS. Sam comes back and its 5 yard plays again. either Sam has a weak arm or he cant read the defenses, and thats very sad after 3 years.

we always are quick to blame the coaching. Rex ruin Sanchez, and Geno. Boweles is a defensive guy. cant let him train Sam. Gase ruined Sam. ..... maybe its not the coaches and its the QBs we have been drafting. 

The only problem with your theory is that there is enough proof to prove that bad coaching and/or lack of talent ruins young QBs but can be redeemed if the issues are addressed...i.e. Ryan Tannehill, Jered Goff, and Josh Allen.

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There are NO good rational reasons the Jets should keep Darnold.  They shouldn't from a football perspective, nor should they from a financial perspective.  It is too risky, and the possible return.  The only reason that some would want to is sentimentality/emotion. IMO anyone who thinks he could magically turn it around this year is kidding themselves and not being realistic at all.

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