Todd McShay releases his big board

[clayton163v 518]

23 hours ago, redlichtie said:

+1 picking Sewell at 2 is rank stupidity

I note that neither of you knocks Sewell as a player.  But you just want somebody else.  I get the distinct impression that you rank him #2. 

[Sperm Edwards 347,697]

12 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I agree that finding a RT isn't an 'insurmountable task'.

Clearly it isn't.

But the idea is to have two, franchise tackle bookends that play at a dominant level. 

A better version of what the Browns have presently. 

For the record, the #2 would be the LT and the #11 last year would become the right, if that makes you feel better about positional value. 

I agree that it's not the most likely scenario and it is, to some degree, unconventional. But I think having mirror image super freak tackles at either side of a wide zone Shanahan scheme could be something special. And with four picks in the first two rounds over the next two years, no edge or corner worth the #2, and an array of 'get yourself excited about someone not named Trevor Lawrence' quarterback prospects, we most definitely do have the luxury to be unconventional. 

Looking at the bolded part — why is that an idea? Where is it written that is a requirement? Or more to the point, why is that the idea over instead finding a badly-needed QB, CB, WR-like TE, EDGE, or WR? 

I’m a big, big believer in OL investment, but don’t believe (with Becton already here) any other of the remaining 4 positions requires that level investment to get a line of punishing run blockers who adequately protect the QB. 

Look, these are all just opinions, so there’s no objective right or wrong (which I think you get), but with Becton already here, IMO any/all of those positions I just listed dwarf the value of upgrading from any other Fant-upgrade to Sewell (though I think drafting Mims is fine, next to a FA WR this year, and though I support finding a WR1 through the draft it seems this offseason there are other ways of doign that, too).

Other non-Sewell positions in upper round 1? e.g. Pitts — I don’t know anything about him other than he’s a top 5-10 prospect as a TE, which means he’s supposed to be a TE with WR-like skills. I’d never draft a TE at #2, but I’d take Pitts and another Fant-upgrade over Sewell + a TE that’s likely available at #34. Except there’s no way we’d need to use #2 on Pitts; we could move down 5 slots, pocket an 1st rounder next year, and then draft Pitts + a more-than-adequate RT prospect (late 1 / early 2) at $2-3MM/year.

[clayton163v 518]

18 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don’t see a team (already with a good young LT) finding another tackle as such an insurmountable task that we have to burn the #2 pick in the country. RTs can be found every single season without anywhere near that investment. 

If we badly needed a LT? That’d be different. Very, very different. 

There isn’t a team in the league that’s needed a #2 overall pick RT the year after drafting a LT. If the system asks for that, then find another system. 

It’d be a tragedy along the lines of drafting a safety at #6 if the team filled its RT-upgrade need using the 2nd pick in the draft. Luckily it looks like there’s a very, very, very slim chance of it happening & Douglas (the guy drafting for that very system) will trade down before making such a selection. 

I note that you do not knock the player or his actual ranking.  You appear completely willing to go for less value and draft for need when we just finished 2-14.

You are what your record says you are.  We are far from one player away.

[clayton163v 518]

7 hours ago, bitonti said:

Becton would be the rt 

And before we call him Orlando brown, remember that Becton did not make it to pro bowl, missed 2 games for a chest cold and gave up 7 sacks 

I like aBecton and believe that we can roll with him going forward.  But Sewell is clearly the 2d best player in the upcoming draft.  We must take him unless we get a fair offer.

[redlichtie 1,356]

7 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

I note that neither of you knocks Sewell as a player.  But you just want somebody else.  I get the distinct impression that you rank him #2. 

Nope....not even remotely.

he hasn’t played in over a year, has only 1 year as a starter so is a one year wonder and was injured most of his freshman season so has enough of an injury history to be considered injury prone (it’s all we hear about with Wilson so why would Sewell be cut any slack??)...this team, with our terrible recent injury history, doesn’t need another guy who can’t get on the field.

He’s played LT....but we already drafted our franchise LT less than 12 months ago so drafting back to back LT’s is lunacy, if you thought drafting safeties in Rd 1 and Rd 2 was peak stupid then I present you an even dumber scenario..

We should not be touching any player that hasn’t suited up since 2019 with a top 10 pick There’s no evidence he can play RT otherwise he might be worth considering at 23...but he isn’t....we need OG & C as a higher priority than RT, I’m all for taking a top RT at 23...but unfortunately, he’s a LT

I think he’s massively overrated, talk of him being an Orlando Pace type ‘generational’ prospect, I don’t see it. Will be a good to very good starting LT in the NFL for sure, but we already have one of those.

Good luck to any team picking him at No2....I just hope it’s not us, because that would plumb new depths of Jets drafting stupidity.

[Sperm Edwards 347,697]

1 minute ago, clayton163v said:

I note that you do not knock the player or his actual ranking.  You appear completely willing to go for less value and draft for need when we just finished 2-14.

You are what your record says you are.  We are far from one player away.

Of course not. Sewell is supposed to be a top-rate LT prospect, and don’t doubt he’s a legit #2 overall type prospect. My issue with drafting him  - at #2 overall, no less - is that position’s already filled (and imo filled more than adequately, with very low cap charges for another 3 years to boot).

I do think RT is a need based on last season. I just don’t think it’s nearly the type of need that requires such an extreme investment on one OL position when just 10 months ago the Jets already filled the only OL position that could/should warrant such a high pick.

It’s not a reflection of the prospect; it’s a reflection of use of the #2 overall pick to upgrade RT (not upgrading from Fant, but upgrading from Fant’s otherwise-non-#2-overall-pick upgrade). I think that’s decidedly poor use of the value of 2-3 1st round picks (give or take, depending how badly another team wants our pick). 

[Sperm Edwards 347,697]

6 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Nope....not even remotely.

he hasn’t played in over a year, has only 1 year as a starter so is a one year wonder and was injured most of his freshman season so has enough of an injury history to be considered injury prone (it’s all we hear about with Wilson so why would Sewell be cut any slack??)...this team, with our terrible recent injury history, doesn’t need another guy who can’t get on the field.

He’s played LT....but we already drafted our franchise LT less than 12 months ago so drafting back to back LT’s is lunacy, if you thought drafting safeties in Rd 1 and Rd 2 was peak stupid then I present you an even dumber scenario..

We should not be touching any player that hasn’t suited up since 2019 with a top 10 pick There’s no evidence he can play RT otherwise he might be worth considering at 23...but he isn’t....we need OG & C as a higher priority than RT, I’m all for taking a top RT at 23...but unfortunately, he’s a LT

I think he’s massively overrated, talk of him being an Orlando Pace type ‘generational’ prospect, I don’t see it. Will be a good to very good starting LT in the NFL for sure, but we already have one of those.

Good luck to any team picking him at No2....I just hope it’s not us, because that would plumb new depths of Jets drafting stupidity.

Well he’s right I was, and am, primarily knocking the value to the 2021 Jets, not the player himself (though agree with you he’s a prospect who’d have an 18-month gap between 2021 summer camp and the last time Sewell took the field; and prior to that, he missed half of one of his 2 prior seasons to injury). But one can poke holes into any prospect’s weakness(es); in the end, time will tell. 

I’m sure he’s a top-notch prospect. That doesn’t mean he’ll be in the HOF any more than any other prospects with non-reach projections to #2 overall. I still wouldn’t take him unless we dropped about 10 slots and he was still there, though even that’d depend who else is on the board. 

The best player doesn’t necessarily equal the best pick (or best use of the pick) for this team. That’s my reasoning.

[clayton163v 518]

18 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Nope....not even remotely.

he hasn’t played in over a year, has only 1 year as a starter so is a one year wonder and was injured most of his freshman season so has enough of an injury history to be considered injury prone (it’s all we hear about with Wilson so why would Sewell be cut any slack??)...this team, with our terrible recent injury history, doesn’t need another guy who can’t get on the field.

He’s played LT....but we already drafted our franchise LT less than 12 months ago so drafting back to back LT’s is lunacy, if you thought drafting safeties in Rd 1 and Rd 2 was peak stupid then I present you an even dumber scenario..

We should not be touching any player that hasn’t suited up since 2019 with a top 10 pick There’s no evidence he can play RT otherwise he might be worth considering at 23...but he isn’t....we need OG & C as a higher priority than RT, I’m all for taking a top RT at 23...but unfortunately, he’s a LT

I think he’s massively overrated, talk of him being an Orlando Pace type ‘generational’ prospect, I don’t see it. Will be a good to very good starting LT in the NFL for sure, but we already have one of those.

Good luck to any team picking him at No2....I just hope it’s not us, because that would plumb new depths of Jets drafting stupidity.

If you look at the top lineman in any particular draft, you will find that the list corresponds closely to the 5 star recruits out of high school.  Guys like Sewell.  The only place for guys like him is down.  He panned out in college and will be a top pick in the pros.  It is the planet theory ala George Young. 

Sewell is the consensus #2.  Just wait until the draft.  Then we will see. 

As for higher priorities, that is drafting for need.  Which is a graveyard. 

[clayton163v 518]

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well he’s right I was, and am, primarily knocking the value to the 2021 Jets, not the player himself (though agree with you he’s a prospect who’d have an 18-month gap between 2021 summer camp and the last time Sewell took the field; and prior to that, he missed half of one of his 2 prior seasons to injury). But one can poke holes into any prospect’s weakness(es); in the end, time will tell. 

I’m sure he’s a top-notch prospect. That doesn’t mean he’ll be in the HOF any more than any other prospects with non-reach projections to #2 overall. I still wouldn’t take him unless we dropped about 10 slots and he was still there, though even that’d depend who else is on the board. 

The best player doesn’t necessarily equal the best pick (or best use of the pick) for this team. That’s my reasoning.

I agree we have other needs.  Lots of them.  Which is my point . . .

[sirlancemehlot 32,595]

On 2/19/2021 at 1:29 PM, Beerfish said:

The issue is interior oline is important and we stink there.    I'd rather get a high end center and guard early in this draft than another tackle.

Scherff/Thuney in free agency and a center in the 3rd takes care of that. McGovern to guard. 

[redlichtie 1,356]

55 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well he’s right I was, and am, primarily knocking the value to the 2021 Jets, not the player himself (though agree with you he’s a prospect who’d have an 18-month gap between 2021 summer camp and the last time Sewell took the field; and prior to that, he missed half of one of his 2 prior seasons to injury). But one can poke holes into any prospect’s weakness(es); in the end, time will tell. 

I’m sure he’s a top-notch prospect. That doesn’t mean he’ll be in the HOF any more than any other prospects with non-reach projections to #2 overall. I still wouldn’t take him unless we dropped about 10 slots and he was still there, though even that’d depend who else is on the board. 

The best player doesn’t necessarily equal the best pick (or best use of the pick) for this team. That’s my reasoning.

Yeah I agree with you and reading your various responses just recently in this thread I think you’ve perfectly articulated, better than I could, why the blind “Sewell at 2” calls are deeply flawed. It’s not just one reason either, there’s multiple reasons. it’s not even clear he’s the best LT in this class.

No question he’s one of the top OT’s available but I personally believe he’s vastly overrated off a 1 year performance behind a QB (Herbert) who we now know was a bit special and probably was getting the ball out quickly and elevating everyone around him.

i will say this for Sewell, while there are technical flaws in his game and when he’s not holding he’s too often over balancing or on the deck, he does have quick feet, is athletic, aggressive and moves well, which does potentially fit our likely new blocking scheme, At 15 to 23 he’d represent terrific value, just too bad he’s a LT, which as we’ve pointed out on a few occasions now, we already have.

Anyone thinking we move Becton to RT is basically calling bust on Mekhi after 1 season...that’s disastrous, .there’s zero evidence he can play RT effectively as a pro, his one season in college was not particularly successful, it was only his junior year when he got into shape that he blossomed at LT.

If Joe Douglas gives up on his own first marquee draft pick after less than a year he’ll get run out of town here, and rightly so.

it’s not just Sewell either, I am highly dubious of any player that hasn’t played a down in anger in 18 months being taken with the No2 overall pick....that includes Chase, Rashawn Slater and Parsons......trade down and out of the top 10 and then maybe you consider it, but absolutely not at 2

i absolutely agree with your point about building a dominant OL, which I totally agree is a priority, does not mean repeatedly burning first round picks on the position. I happen to think Fant is way better than he gets credit for and will improve even more in a system where his athleticism is key and with better talent around him. That’s not to say a very good RT isn’t an option come draft day, even as early as 23 should the right player be available, it’s just not as high a priority as G or C

 

 

 

[redlichtie 1,356]

1 hour ago, clayton163v said:

If you look at the top lineman in any particular draft, you will find that the list corresponds closely to the 5 star recruits out of high school.  Guys like Sewell.  The only place for guys like him is down.  He panned out in college and will be a top pick in the pros.  It is the planet theory ala George Young. 

Sewell is the consensus #2.  Just wait until the draft.  Then we will see. 

As for higher priorities, that is drafting for need.  Which is a graveyard. 

Tony Mandarich was the consensus No 2, turns out he was a colossal mistake there too....planet theory gets it horribly wrong sometimes.

I don’t believe Sewell is the ‘consensus’ No 2 (whatever that actually is) but even if he is, we just drafted a guy to play his position with the 11th pick last year!!..... this draft is going to be very different because the usual mixing of scouts and reporters simply isn’t happening this year, therefor the usual movement of players up and down the board from pre-season projections seems to not be happening nearly as much as usual.

I think Sewell is still there based upon his 2019 season. We simply don’t know how the draft board is shaping up this year and of course every single year there are risers and fallers who shock us on draft day. 

We have yet to see how teams are viewing players who took a year off in 2020 but I have to believe it will be a factor. That could mean a very good player drops and represents excellent value and mitigates against the risk of not having any tape to go off last year.

I’m no scout but I’d imagine I’d want to know if a guy like Chase or Parsons or Sewell can deliver an even better season second time around. Do they produce even when opposing teams know all about them and game plan specifically to target them? It’s one thing to have a breakout season, but can you back it up now that you have a big target on your back? For me that is a major factor when you are talking about using a top 10 pick, probably even any first round pick. 

it’s less of an issue in the latter part of round 1 and of course the 2nd and 3rd rounds but I would absolutely expect it to be an issue in the top 10.

one things for sure, it’s potentially going to be a wild and exciting draft with all these variables and unknowns

If Sewell goes 2nd I sure hope it’s to a team we’ve just robbed blind of multiple future draft picks in a trade, good luck to them but we already drafted our franchise LT and it would not be a good look for Joe Douglas to declare bust on his first ever draft pick after less than a year by drafting his replacement with a top 2 pick. If that happens we have bigger needs....like finding a new GM

 

 

 

[riggy001 340]

Sewell is not going number 2 period, whether the jets make the pick or not

[jetsQuebec 23]

On 2/19/2021 at 1:32 PM, DetroitRed said:

Imagine a stud WR on the Jets? Who was the last we drafted ?  Keyshawn?

Laveranues Coles maybe ?

[dcJet 1,260]

Drafting a RT with #2 is dumb. Superior play at RT doesn't move the bar enough on a 2 win team.

At 2 you take a QB.   We can find a RT later.  

[Gramsci 59]

On 2/20/2021 at 5:29 AM, Beerfish said:

The issue is interior oline is important and we stink there.    I'd rather get a high end center and guard early in this draft than another tackle.

Interior OL is something you can get on the second and third round. 

[Larz 71,684]

Gotta feeling 3 years from now chase and smith will be the guys people will be talking about as the studs from this draft 

if lafleur likes Sam , give him one of those guys 

[Biggs 10,703]

On 2/19/2021 at 1:29 PM, Beerfish said:

The issue is interior oline is important and we stink there.    I'd rather get a high end center and guard early in this draft than another tackle.

Totally agree with this.  I remember we picked Marvin Powell round 1 in 77 and went Chris Ward with the 4th pick in 78.  We did much better when we went LT, Center and than added a great guard in FA in Faneca.  Unless were getting a left handed QB we don't need bookend great tackles.  We can use a TE and a fullback in the new scheme to accomplish what we want if we have athletic center and guards.

[riggy001 340]

If the Jets keep Darnold( less than 50% chance), there is absolutely zero chance they will make a pick at number 2, they will be trading the pick for add’l assets, and someone else will take Wilson or Fields at 2. 

 

 

[Philc1 14,252]

Sewell is the second best player in this draft after Trevor.  Fields is the next Ohio St qb nfl bust and Wilson is an injury liability headed to Chadville

 

i love the mental gymnastics involved with proclaiming we can’t draft Sewell at 2.  So you can’t draft a future All Pro OL but you can draft a lock to bust qb that will get this entire regime canned in 3 years with Woody handpicking the replacements again

[Philc1 14,252]

For the “lolz can’t draft a RT at 2 crowd” Sewell is literally possibly being considered the best OT prospect ever

 

[bitonti 43,311]

 

PFF draft QB grades vs. power 5 competition 

doesn't look so hot for headband 

[Matt39 43,123]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 

PFF draft QB grades vs. power 5 competition 

doesn't look so hot for headband 

I think there's a shot Jones goes ahead of Wilson and Fields.

[bitonti 43,311]

On 2/19/2021 at 11:15 AM, GreekJet said:

He also has Slater and Farley in his top 10. 5/10 top prospects opted out. 

The best players opted out 

Some people think that makes them weak or a bad teammate

Maybe there's a some truth there. 

But they are also the best prospects, physically, and the rarest humans, judged by the free market of agents and super agents 

[Morrissey 13,543]

On 2/20/2021 at 5:57 PM, clayton163v said:

I like aBecton and believe that we can roll with him going forward.  But Sewell is clearly the 2d best player in the upcoming draft.  We must take him unless we get a fair offer.

Makes me laugh when people make proclamations like this. You cant possibly know he is the second best player in the upcoming draft and you certainly don’t “clearly know’.

 Assuming  you believe Lawrence and Sewell are 1-2, that leaves 252 other drafted players plus all the undrafted free agents. I’ll take my chances with the field