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~The struggle within: understanding the unwavering Sam Darnold defender


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I will die on the Sam Darnold hill...

Wow that was long. I am so glad we now have the EXPAND post quote option. 

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3 hours ago, genot said:

It might be too late in the game, so to speak. Darnold has some special skills. What is left out in an otherwise good article by Sabo, is Darnold's lack of a teacher. He has played three years in the league without a dedicated QB coach. To me, tbat's not a minor point. 

Thank you!!!

Here look at what a Miami Dolphin fan said about Adam Gase and Saleh ...

"Yeah he (Saleh) may end up being decent but hopefully Gase will end up in the dumpster with his pants around his ankles and a will work for food sign in his hands instead of another coaching job in any capacity on any team!"

 

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6 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Exactly. He hasn’t just been saddled with a poor roster, but the coaching has been been the worst.

Jeremy Bates, Adam Gase, Dowell Loggains all out of the league depths of bad. 
 
That tells you half the story. The other half is that about 12 teams have called about his availability. That tells you all you need to know.

What Douglas and Saleh need to determine is if Sam is better than Wilson. But that’s not necessarily a knock on Sam.

Stop with the Darnold excuses.  Why did Joe Flacco look much better behind center with the so called same weaknesses that Sam Darnold had.    It’s tough to admit your team was wrong in there assessment of Sam Darnold.   Put your big boy pants on and accept that he has been an big time failure in the NFL.( you can’t still read NFL defenses going into your fourth year- that isn’t going to improve with more time.

Sam Darnold time is up with the Jets , and you can bet there will be a new franchise Qb under center for them.   He has no one but Sam Darnold to blame.

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I wonder how many heads will explode around here when the Jets draft Justin Fields 🤣🤣

 

Out of all the Jets media places where you can interact with other fans, this is by far the most pro Wilson and pro Darnold place of them all. 

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I think Sam in a better situation can be an elite NFL QB.  (In reality I'm just trying to pump up his trade value.  I secretly think he's never going to cut it in the NFL)

 

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4 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Stop with the Darnold excuses.  Why did Joe Flacco look much better behind center with the so called same weaknesses that Sam Darnold had.    It’s tough to admit your team was wrong in there assessment of Sam Darnold.   Put your big boy pants on and accept that he has been an big time failure in the NFL.( you can’t still read NFL defenses going into your fourth year- that isn’t going to improve with more time.

Sam Darnold time is up with the Jets , and you can bet there will be a new franchise Qb under center for them.   He has no one but Sam Darnold to blame.

GTFO with this crap.

So now it's an excuse to point out the fact Sam was given the bottom of the barrel for offensive coaching? No. It's still a fact. O-line quality? WRs? Not even NFL average quality for most of his tenure here.

How did Flacco look better? Maybe years of pro experience? (And years more growing up playing QB) Ya think? Probably not, he must just be eons better than Sam.

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13 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

This article is DUMB. No one is an unwavering supporter of Sammy. For me, I respect him for how nice of a kid he is and the grace that he's handled this cluster**** the Jets put him in. It is my belief that the Jets have made Sammys play decline via their thorough incompetence. 

I fall in line with your thinking but I can undoubtedly tell you there are tons of unwavering Sam supporters. I don't see as many on here as I do in the YouTube/Facebook comments but there are a lot of them.

Anyone who understands the salary cap, the luck of having a top 2 pick, and an entire new regime will get why our QB will be one of Watson, Wilson, or Fields. I really like Sam the person and I have hope he can play well elsewhere but unfortunately due to the Jets incompetence we blew our shot with him.

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14 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

GTFO with this crap.

So now it's an excuse to point out the fact Sam was given the bottom of the barrel for offensive coaching? No. It's still a fact. O-line quality? WRs? Not even NFL average quality for most of his tenure here.

How did Flacco look better? Maybe years of pro experience? (And years more growing up playing QB) Ya think? Probably not, he must just be eons better than Sam.

The biggest difference is how much it stood out that Sam has zero deep ball accuracy. Watching Flacco have success with the same weapons was a damning indictment on Sam IMO.

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I don’t know anyone who is a fervent Sam supporter. I know I am not. That said, it’s ignorant to not acknowledge that he was part of one of the worst offenses overall in regards to talent. He played behind a god awful line with terrible RB’s and even worse WR’s. But that’s not to deny that Sam himself was also pretty awful at times on his own.

The disconnect is that there is an assumption that not wanting to draft Fields or Wilson automatically means we are Sam fans. I personally think Fields and Watson are awful prospects. Neither strikes me as a QB that I can see being a consistent top 15 QB in the league, and certainly not a top 5 prospect. That’s my opinion on both. I think in a good QB class they might be late 1st/2nd round talent. They are hyped up because the media knows QB’s generate buzz in the draft. Hell we have 500 topics on it in this forum.

My position is simple-instead of blowing a 2nd overall pick on one of these QB’s that I personally feel are not great prospects, trade down and use the picks to continue to refill our ridiculously bare cupboard at all positions. Let Sam be a stopgap solution. Worst case scenario he continues to suck while we continue to rebuild.


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12 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

The biggest difference is how much it stood out that Sam has zero deep ball accuracy. Watching Flacco have success with the same weapons was a damning indictment on Sam IMO.

I'm not saying Sam is some lock to be an all pro QB, but to suggest there isn't/wasnt mitigating factors to his poor play is ludicrous. 

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11 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

I'm not saying Sam is some lock to be an all pro QB, but to suggest there isn't/wasnt mitigating factors to his poor play is ludicrous. 

 The problem is he may have some value in trade right now.  If he doesn't have a good year next year he becomes a very expensive failure.  

It's fair to say Sam was put in a bad spot and Sam didn't show enough to move forward with him long term.  With a new HC and GM who didn't pick him we can trade him now and start over with a cheap rookie QB or make a blockbuster trade for Watson.  

At what point is Sam sunk cost?  

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25 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

The biggest difference is how much it stood out that Sam has zero deep ball accuracy. Watching Flacco have success with the same weapons was a damning indictment on Sam IMO.

This is a dealbreaker with him, yes.  There were too many throws with Robbie alone that he over or under threw his first 2 seasons.  I think 3 years is enough to make a reasonable assessment of darnold as an nfl qb and not as an nfl prospect, that he can be decent as a system qb but simply isn’t the difference maker he was expected to be.  

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Just now, Biggs said:

 The problem is he may have some value in trade right now.  If he doesn't have a good year next year he becomes a very expensive failure.  

It's fair to say Sam was put in a bad spot and Sam didn't show enough to move forward with him long term.  With a new HC and GM who didn't pick him we can trade him now and start over with a cheap rookie QB or make a blockbuster trade for Watson.  

At what point is Sam sunk cost?  

Another great point.  Now is their last chance to get value for him.  If they keep him and he’s bad, you’re not getting anything for him.  

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I think most people are in the grey when it come to how to handle the QB position.

Personally, there are 4 scenarios in Im ok with. I just prefer certain sceneries more.

Im ok with (in order):

1) trade for Watson for no more than 3 first round picks

2) Draft Fields

3) Trade back and build around the QB position while giving Sam another chance

4) Draft Wilson

The only option I’m not a fan of is staying at 2 and going non-QB. If we’re going to give Darnold another chance, let’s have 3 first next year just in case he bombs again.

Jets fans don’t have the same preferences. So it may appear that two fans debating will just be happy with one outcome.

I also like Mac Jones. Just not sure he fits our system like Fields, Wilson and Darnold.

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5 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Stop with the Darnold excuses.  Why did Joe Flacco look much better behind center with the so called same weaknesses that Sam Darnold had.    It’s tough to admit your team was wrong in there assessment of Sam Darnold.   Put your big boy pants on and accept that he has been an big time failure in the NFL.( you can’t still read NFL defenses going into your fourth year- that isn’t going to improve with more time.

Sam Darnold time is up with the Jets , and you can bet there will be a new franchise Qb under center for them.   He has no one but Sam Darnold to blame.

Flacco looked good in one game against the horrible Pats D.  His time as starter was not "much better"

The same Flacco who had a QB rating under 50 and who was shut out in a horrific game against the Fins etc.  Look ash the games where Flacco had Hogan and Berrios as his WRs and see how much better he didnt look

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53 minutes ago, Biggs said:

 The problem is he may have some value in trade right now.  If he doesn't have a good year next year he becomes a very expensive failure.  

It's fair to say Sam was put in a bad spot and Sam didn't show enough to move forward with him long term.  With a new HC and GM who didn't pick him we can trade him now and start over with a cheap rookie QB or make a blockbuster trade for Watson.  

At what point is Sam sunk cost?  

Sam was "sunk cost" the minute they started paying his contract. They hooked their wagon to him and paid him, while not giving him real support. 

The Jets aren't getting that money back, it was a gamble they skimped on. Future payment is all that matters at this point. 

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1 hour ago, bla bla bla said:

The biggest difference is how much it stood out that Sam has zero deep ball accuracy. Watching Flacco have success with the same weapons was a damning indictment on Sam IMO.

I really do feel like this is a narrative that developed after the season. Flacco was awful. 

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I think most people are in the grey when it come to how to handle the QB position.
Personally, there are 4 scenarios in Im ok with. I just prefer certain sceneries more.
Im ok with (in order):
1) trade for Watson for no more than 3 first round ....
Yeah . Or

Trade for Watson fir no more than 2 1sts and a 2nd.

Draft either Wilson. (Or Lawrence of he magically falls)

Drop back to around 10 and take Lance or Fields

Keep Darnold and deal with QB next year.



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14 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

Is anyone really an unwavering supporter? There is a healthy debate raging about keeping him, but that mostly due to the current situation the Jets are in, not anything to do with Sam’s “potential”

As Bill Lumbergh in Office Space would say, I'm gonna have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there.  Just as I'm a staunch "no Sam under any circumstance" proponent, There are folks here who believe with every molecule of their being that Sam should stay/got screwed because of poor mgt. decisions, no supporting cast, etc./will become a star with another team.    

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5 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Stop with the Darnold excuses.  Why did Joe Flacco look much better behind center with the so called same weaknesses that Sam Darnold had.    It’s tough to admit your team was wrong in there assessment of Sam Darnold.   Put your big boy pants on and accept that he has been an big time failure in the NFL.( you can’t still read NFL defenses going into your fourth year- that isn’t going to improve with more time.

Sam Darnold time is up with the Jets , and you can bet there will be a new franchise Qb under center for them.   He has no one but Sam Darnold to blame.

Joe Flacco is a very good looking.  I'm not sure that's relevant to the discussion?   

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1 hour ago, Biggs said:

 The problem is he may have some value in trade right now.  If he doesn't have a good year next year he becomes a very expensive failure.  

It's fair to say Sam was put in a bad spot and Sam didn't show enough to move forward with him long term.  With a new HC and GM who didn't pick him we can trade him now and start over with a cheap rookie QB or make a blockbuster trade for Watson.  

At what point is Sam sunk cost?  

This is very fair, and even though I lean pro-Sam, he may go from a round 2 pick to Josh Rosen if he sucks again this year.  I think JD is going to trade him simply because he can get max value now by using "Gase/no weaponz" as an excuse...

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5 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Yeah . Or

Trade for Watson fir no more than 2 1sts and a 2nd.

Draft either Wilson. (Or Lawrence of he magically falls)

Drop back to around 10 and take Lance or Fields

Keep Darnold and deal with QB next year.



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Imagine if Lawrence magically drops. Jets fans would go nuts. We might be so happy, we’ll start wondering if it’s a setup. He’s my top option even over Watson. I just can’t imagine him not going #1.

But, so many scenarios. Even Cimini put out an article with the different scenarios we can take. This is not the year to claim there’s no grey area. 

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19 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I really do feel like this is a narrative that developed after the season. Flacco was awful. 

Huh? He wasn’t Brady but he was and is a wayyyy better passer of the ball than Sam.  Stronger arm and more accuracy than Darnold. Yes he did blow but given the same opportunity’s awarded to Sam, he would’ve at least put up decent statistics and our WR’s would’ve had better numbers. 

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2 hours ago, oatmeal said:

I wonder how many heads will explode around here when the Jets draft Justin Fields 🤣🤣

 

Out of all the Jets media places where you can interact with other fans, this is by far the most pro Wilson and pro Darnold place of them all. 

Pro Wilkerson? Dude,  Senor Gato left or morphed into a new identity. He was the only Pro Mo guy at the end. Maybe couple stragglers but he certainly carried the torched deep into the wilderness alone on that one. 

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35 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I really do feel like this is a narrative that developed after the season. Flacco was awful. 

Flacco was horrible, that should not be our standard for QB play, which is why I've soured so hard on Sam. 

Sam's lack of a deep ball is why I don't feel bad Robby left. I wanted to keep him but we'd be lying to ourselves if we said Sam and him had any sort of chemistry.

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17 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Huh? He wasn’t Brady but he was and is a wayyyy better passer of the ball than Sam.  Stronger arm and more accuracy than Darnold. Yes he did blow but given the same opportunity’s awarded to Sam, he would’ve at least put up decent statistics and our WR’s would’ve had better numbers. 

He was just as bad.  He barely moved the ball.  He just didn't take as many risks as Sam.  Flacco was okay with losing. 

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7 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Flacco was horrible, that should not be our standard for QB play, which is why I've soured so hard on Sam. 

Sam's lack of a deep ball is why I don't feel bad Robby left. I wanted to keep him but we'd be lying to ourselves if we said Sam and him had any sort of chemistry.

Robby averaged over 4 more yds per catch with Sam. He wasn't targeted as much, because with the Jet's they limited his route tree. More proof of what smart coaching can do for a player's production.

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14 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Now that the dust has settled, I haven’t heard one report mentioning that Saleh and Lafleur have actually had a sit down with Sam. If they’re doing a true due diligence, wouldn’t a “chalk board” discussion with Sam make some sense to do?

of course. But I don’t think they have which means the ultimate decision maker (Douglas) has already made up his mind long ago.

So,  he’s a goner.

Sam defenders, accept this reality.

Would such a sit down violate the coach/player off-season contact limitations set by the CBA?

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7 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Would such a sit down violate the coach/player off-season contact limitations set by the CBA?

Great point. It would violate terms of CBA. Thought new staff they're would be an exception. A new staff is given a two week head start before the off season program starts up. After the draft.

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19 minutes ago, genot said:

Robby averaged over 4 more yds per catch with Sam. He wasn't targeted as much, because with the Jet's they limited his route tree. More proof of what smart coaching can do for a player's production.

image.jpeg.91c70f6b6743d06455d004360223c7a8.jpeg

 

Maybe it was his coaches at USC fault too 🤔

 

poor Sammy boy everyone is just out to stifle his football career 🙄

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4 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

image.jpeg.91c70f6b6743d06455d004360223c7a8.jpeg

 

Maybe it was his coaches at USC fault too 🤔

 

poor Sammy boy everyone is just out to stifle his football career 🙄

Sounds personal with you. All those derogatory nicknames. Etc, Etc. Jet's did stifle his career. Even the people on and outside this forum, who want another QB, say that 

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It’s still not black and white.  There are valid arguments for each scenario and then there are a bunch of sideshows, you know should they take Wilson or trade back and go for a guy like Jones. Or they could chose to build out the oline and skil positions and let darnold show them.  Another point is , as bad as darnold is perceived to be, he still has 3 more seasons of nfl experience that any rookie will not have.  And if the jets are considering Watson, they have to determine if the future price won’t be too great.

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 The problem is he may have some value in trade right now.  If he doesn't have a good year next year he becomes a very expensive failure.  
It's fair to say Sam was put in a bad spot and Sam didn't show enough to move forward with him long term.  With a new HC and GM who didn't pick him we can trade him now and start over with a cheap rookie QB or make a blockbuster trade for Watson.  
At what point is Sam sunk cost?  


This is a very good point, He does have trade value right now. But here’s the thing, if we trade down and keep him one more year we would get far more return on the #2 overall pick that we would by keeping it and drafting a QB and trading Sam instead. Again, I don’t believe in Sam at all really, but I also think Wilson and Fields are just not high level NFL caliber players. I think we’ll be looking to draft their replacement in 3 years again. By trading down we’d likely end up with 3 1st round picks next year, at which point I’d say we could use one of them or all of them to take a QB next year with my opinion that by odds alone the 2nd-4th rated QB will be better prospects than Fields and Wilson.


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