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Rap: No immediate decision to be made on Sam


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54 minutes ago, Pac said:

In around 8 mos get ready for 1000 "I'm happy to be proven wrong" posts ala the Q situation.

Sam will thrive in this offense.

I don't think it'll be that many, nor will it take that long, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

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To me Watson has shown Revis/Jamal style instincts which I hate. Something goes wrong and he wants out.. No one held a gun to his head when he signed his contract I assume. If I'm the Texans I keep hi

In before a poster tells us how much Sam sucks and should be tossed away.  

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6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Agree, but drafting a bad QB at #2 - even if it's a slight improvement - is worse than keeping Darnold for 2021 and watching him fail for another season.

One failure is for 1 year, costs $5MM plus (guessing) roughly the #30-40 pick; the other failure lasts at least 2-3 years, costs $35MM plus the #2 pick.

Jets fans are experienced at spotting the lesser of half-empty glasses.

We're literally seeing it with Sam Darnold. A bad qb with league-worst production still gets 3 years and there are still people in the front office defending him and wanting to give him more time. 

That being said, it's a shot that still need to be taken because of the importance of the position and the scarcity of top QB prospects.

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39 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Totally disagree, his franchise crumbled around him, ownership lied to him. He isn't Jamal tweeting the thought of the day. He wants out and it seems like he is prepared to play the long game. I think he is handling this with class so far.

I agree, but the "shut up and play" crowd will never see this.

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1 hour ago, ganggreen305 said:

My options:

1 - Trade Darnold for 3rd or 4th round pick and move on.  Draft a QB at #2.  (People really think we are getting a 1 for Darnold.....LOL)  Do people not realize that Flacco made this offense more explosive than Darnold did???

2 - Keep Darnold one more year.  Draft QB at #2 and let them battle it out.

3 - Keep Darnold one more year, trade down from #2, get a bunch of picks, take Mac Jones later, build up the team.

4 - Trade everything for Watson.

My Options:

1. Trade everything for Watson before the draft.
2. If Watson not traded before the draft, trade down to accumulate more future first round assets.  Tank with Sam for a top 5 pick next year.

 

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Peter Schrager (close to the Johnson's) said the following just now on The Herd:

"I know those Jets guys, they haven't made any decisions yet, they haven't, and I know we all love mock drafts and I know we all think that a BYU quarterback is gonna be the starter for the Jets next year and I say slow that down, they are still evaluating a lot of things, and Sam Darnold in that offense might be a different version of Sam Darnold than he was in the Adam Gase offense."

SAR I

@DetroitRed posted this interview on another thread and it shows that a QB analyst feels Darnold can be good in San Francisco's Offensive approach.; whether it is true or not is arguable, but it does show, perhaps the Jets thinking as well.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/play-like-a-jet-new-york-jets/id1236901698#episodeGuid=3b0382ec-74a0-11eb-90aa-679e6ea83111

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4 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

We're literally seeing it with Sam Darnold. A bad qb with league-worst production still gets 3 years and there are still people in the front office defending him and wanting to give him more time. 

That being said, it's a shot that still need to be taken because of the importance of the position and the scarcity of top QB prospects.

Sure, but what's the benchmark Darnold needs to clear this season? I think 3 years of poor production is more than enough to understand you move in a new direction. He's never going to be a top 10 QB. His replacement value is closer to 30-35 than it is 10-15. I dont see the rationale in moving forward with that. 

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3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Sure, but what's the benchmark Darnold needs to clear this season? I think 3 years of poor production is more than enough to understand you move in a new direction. He's never going to be a top 10 QB. His replacement value is closer to 30-35 than it is 10-15. I dont see the rationale in moving forward with that. 

Maybe, if not probably.  But, Brees was a worst QBs after 3 years, and older

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31 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Many heads on this site will explode when this happens. I feel it too 

I’ll tell you this - if this organization is gullible enough to buy into the Zach Wilson FOMO, and I have to watch that experiment waver with mediocrity while Fields is over in Carolina crushing it with Matt Rhule... I’m out. Don’t love the Jets that much. 

every relationship has its limits. Marriage, friendship - Jets are no different. 

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4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Sure, but what's the benchmark Darnold needs to clear this season? I think 3 years of poor production is more than enough to understand you move in a new direction. He's never going to be a top 10 QB. His replacement value is closer to 30-35 than it is 10-15. I dont see the rationale in moving forward with that. 

I'm all aboard the move on from Darnold train. I was just acknowledging that taking a bad qb is detrimental, obviously. But you have to take the shot, so it is what it is.

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7 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I'm all aboard the move on from Darnold train. I was just acknowledging that taking a bad qb is detrimental, obviously. But you have to take the shot, so it is what it is.

Im ok (I guess) with passing on a QB at 2. Don't love either guy (however I think Jones deserves more of a look). Committing again to Darnold, when I think it's clear - that he's not the guy but that there's also a loud portion of the base that still thinks he could be good, which will just muddy everything up again next offseason. It's likely the Jets miss the playoffs again next year, do we go through this again with Darnold? At which point do you just cut bait. Maybe the light switch goes on and he balls out, but using history as an indicator that rarely every happens. 

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

“If the Coaches or Front office people who have made it to the top of their profession and are highly thought of in one of the most cut throat businesses on the face of the planet don’t agree with ME, the fan who burps and eats Cheetos every Sunday going on 30+ years, on what they should do, they need to be fired.”

You legitimately can’t make it up.

A meaningful percentage of this board would have done a better job than Mike Maccagnan did, considering auto-draft and simply not signing free agents would have done so.

Mike Tannenbaum gave Mark Sanchez 3 years and 40M, while he continued to be a bottom 3 QB in the NFL.

So, I'm hard pressed to just accept that these guys have some special skillset.

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1 hour ago, oatmeal said:

To be fair evaluators who were also paid to make these decisions drafted Sam and that was a terrible decision. 

So far.Obviously if it was that easy, he'd already be gone 

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45 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Let the football men In charge do their work.  The worst passer in the league had a winning record 2 seasons ago. If they decide to move on, it will be after the evaluate all options. It won’t be, I hate Darnold , so we have move on , no matter what 

FWIW, he did so against, I believe, the 2nd easiest schedule in the league, and against 4 of the bottom 5 defenses.

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2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

FWIW, he did so against, I believe, the 2nd easiest schedule in the league, and against 4 of the bottom 5 defenses.

So what?  He is the worst,  so there is no worst. Every Qb he faced was better 

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Humble posters? I've been watching this team for close to 30 years. Give me a break.

30 years!!!!

Youngster!!!

When you get to 50 years plus!!! Then get back to me :)   

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52 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Well if you take the ownership \ new head coach part out of the mix, I still think he was lied to.

Because it is kind of implied that you aren't going to destroy the franchise by letting Bill O'Brien make awful trades.

Then he never should have signed on the dotted line, ater those decisions you talked about we're made. Maxman. Maybe i'm being too harsh. It just strikes me the wrong way, that after the fact,(contract signing), he gets cold feet, and cones up with these, "Oh, i was promised", issues.

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12 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

A meaningful percentage of this board would have done a better job than Mike Maccagnan did, considering auto-draft and simply not signing free agents would have done so.

Mike Tannenbaum gave Mark Sanchez 3 years and 40M, while he continued to be a bottom 3 QB in the NFL.

So, I'm hard pressed to just accept that these guys have some special skillset.

A decade now the Jets have missed the playoffs! Everyone should be skeptical. I get even more skeptical when people finger wag that I shouldnt be skeptical lol.

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35 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In fairness, I've heard that before. Maccagnan was the football guy we so sorely lacked - an experienced scout, not a "bean counter" - to do player evaluations. Then we paired him with a defensive "genius" (yes, he was called that here) in Bowles. So much wisdom. So much wisdom.  ;) 

Im not saying Sperm that their decisions will be the correct ones, just because of tbeir job title. The decisions that they make though carry far more weight than all of us here, because we don't have nearly have as much information to form a more solid judgement

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6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

A decade now the Jets have missed the playoffs! Everyone should be skeptical. I get even more skeptical when people finger wag that I shouldnt be skeptical lol.

I like that the Jets seem to have gotten their first choice in GM and first choice in HC, and both of those guys were well respected around the league.

That said, I'm agnostic about them beyond that.

I'm okay with passing on a QB at two, if you do your homework, and really do not believe in these guys.  However, I don't see a scenario where you can go into season 4 of the league's worst QB as the unquestioned starter.  A decision like that is in fact, reason enough to be unhappy with the decision makers.  Goodwill doesn't exist in the face of gutless, awful choices.

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There is no rush to trade Sam unless someone calls and gives us an offer that we know we need to grab right away.  

Its Wilson/Fields/Lance  vs Sam and trading down for more draft capital while still possibly grabbing a blue chip player.

My gut says that Watson will not become a Jet but obviously an offer should be made. 

My offer would be 

  • #2 which can be worth multiple ones
  • #1 2022  
  • #1 2023

This leaves us with #23 this year and still have a #1 next.   Dig your feet into the ground and move on if they pass.  We have too many holes to fill and cap space can only do so much.  Build through the draft!

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1 hour ago, oatmeal said:

God forbid anyone questions the logic of a front office that would like to run it back with the literal worst passer in the league, on a expiring contract. But this is the same organization that passed on Watson and Mahomes for Hackenberg 

 

 

Why does everyone who posts like you keep bringing up the past regimes... This isn't Idzik or Macc and company in the front office anymore. Have a little faith in the new regime that they actually know what they are doing.

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Albert Breer in today's MMQB:

I think Sam Darnold is the next quarterback we’ll be talking about [in the trade market]. But it might not be for a little while. Part of the process for the Jets is going to be assessing the quarterbacks that’ll be available with the second pick, and comparing them to Darnold, and seeing them throw is part of that equation. The problem? There’s no combine for that, and no private workouts allowed (at least as of now), which means pro days will be the first, and maybe only, shot the Jets have to check that box. Here are the relevant dates, along those lines …

• March 12: North Dakota State pro day (Trey Lance).

• March 26: BYU pro day (Zach Wilson).

• March 31: Ohio State pro day (Justin Fields).

A big part of this equation for the Jets is going to be whether they reach the conclusion that an upgrade would be available to them at No. 2. They’re not at that point yet. If/when they get there, Darnold will be available. Until then, teams will have to wait on the former third pick.

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Agree, but drafting a bad QB at #2 - even if it's a slight improvement - is worse than keeping Darnold for 2021 and watching him fail for another season.

One failure is for 1 year, costs $5MM plus (guessing) roughly the #30-40 pick; the other failure lasts at least 2-3 years, costs $35MM plus the #2 pick.

Jets fans are experienced at spotting the lesser of half-empty glasses.

This is what I've been saying for a minute now. And it does not mean that one has to approve or love Sam Darnold's play right now!

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5 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Why does everyone who posts like you keep bringing up the past regimes... This isn't Idzik or Macc and company in the front office anymore. Have a little faith in the new regime that they actually know what they are doing.

Oh, 

You mean the same regime who let Robby walk for a million, couldn’t identify the best LT in last years draft, drafted a QB that couldn’t make the depth chart and fielded a team who had the potential to be the leagues 3rd team ever to go winless in 16 games . 
 

Yea I have big trust 🙄

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44 minutes ago, genot said:

Then he never should have signed on the dotted line, ater those decisions you talked about we're made. Maxman. Maybe i'm being too harsh. It just strikes me the wrong way, that after the fact,(contract signing), he gets cold feet, and cones up with these, "Oh, i was promised", issues.

Players get cut when they are no longer good. He is good and he is looking to cut his team.

If they don't trade him, he can retire or comeback and play for them. It is that simple. The only real question here is how is he handling things. And as I said Watson has major concerns and it handling it the right way. He has not gone the Revis route, has not gone the Jamal route.

Can't blame the guy for requesting a trade, what happens next is unknown.

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10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

@T0mShane Any thoughts on Mac Jones?

I saw an FO stat on him a few weeks ago that he was great, efficiency-wise, under pressure, but that he was awful when forced to come off of his first read, which seems very Alabama QBs-like. I hate all of these QBs, even though two of them will likely be Hall of Famers. What are your thoughts?

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1 minute ago, Maxman said:

Players get cut when they are no longer good. He is good and he is looking to cut his team.

If they don't trade him, he can retire or comeback and play for them. It is that simple. The only real question here is how is he handling things. And as I said Watson has major concerns and it handling it the right way. He has not gone the Revis route, has not gone the Jamal route.

Can't blame the guy for requesting a trade, what happens next is unknown.

It's a slippery slope that i don't want to see happen on a regular basis. Your right about the comparison with Adams. He had almost a social media gameplan. Non-stop stuff. Watson has dealt with his displeasure with much more class. 

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2 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Players get cut when they are no longer good. He is good and he is looking to cut his team.

If they don't trade him, he can retire or comeback and play for them. It is that simple. The only real question here is how is he handling things. And as I said Watson has major concerns and it handling it the right way. He has not gone the Revis route, has not gone the Jamal route.

Can't blame the guy for requesting a trade, what happens next is unknown.

So how does the media always know what he's thinking?? You give him a pass because you want him on the Jets just like the compiler who wanted out from the Pats that were just in the Bowl so he entered into a poison pill contract with his Tuna daddy that let the player void the contract after 1 year.. It made it impossible for the Pats to match but Jet fans thought he was a class act..LOL

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51 minutes ago, genot said:

Im not saying Sperm that their decisions will be the correct ones, just because of tbeir job title. The decisions that they make though carry far more weight than all of us here, because we don't have nearly have as much information to form a more solid judgement

Other than being in the know as to what other GMs are willing to surrender for a pick, and some 1-on-1 time with prospects and existing players/coaches, they don’t know that much more. Or more to the point, the disparity in judgment, from fans to FO people, often dwarfs the disparity in this “information” they have that we don’t.

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3 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Groundbreaking report here.

Jets not blindly guessing on QB position and plan to do their homework. Good stuff Rap. Thanks.

Came to say the same thing, but was just going to say "duhhhh"

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So...

Keep Darnold for his 4th season unless they are blown away by a trade offer.

Continue doing their due diligence on the quarterbacks in the draft to determine if taking one at #2 is worth it.

It's not exactly rocket science folks.  This is the way professional organizations are run.  Take the emotions out of it, and this is the best path forward.  Darnold is a good soldier, relatively cheap, and offers more upside than any of the free agent veterans available out there.

My prediction: Jets take Wilson at #2 and Darnold starts the season to let the rookie develop for a bit.  If the Jets do not like any quarterbacks at #2, they will trade back and look to add a skill position player or quarterback.  In either scenario, Darnold is the starting quarterback Week 1.  It's unlikely that the Jets pick up Darnold's 5th year option, but not out of the question.

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1 hour ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

We're literally seeing it with Sam Darnold. A bad qb with league-worst production still gets 3 years and there are still people in the front office defending him and wanting to give him more time. 

That being said, it's a shot that still need to be taken because of the importance of the position and the scarcity of top QB prospects.

In fairness to the front office they're simply playing poker at this point.  There is no reason for them to put their cards on the table when bets are still being made.  

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10 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

So how does the media always know what he's thinking?? You give him a pass because you want him on the Jets just like the compiler who wanted out from the Pats that were just in the Bowl so he entered into a poison pill contract with his Tuna daddy that let the player void the contract after 1 year.. It made it impossible for the Pats to match but Jet fans thought he was a class act..LOL

Always? I think it’s like lots of reporting: no shortage of someone who hears from someone, if not things that are surmised by interpretation, and it’s called reporting sports news when it’s just a sports reporter’s opinion or guess.

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