"NFL Draft 2021: Growing ‘buzz’ Jets will keep Sam Darnold, trade No. 2 pick"

[Wonderboy]

15 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

You guys realize they can keep Sam and also draft his future replacement, right?

Like, it doesn’t have to be this difficult for y’all.

Or they can trade Darnold, trade the #2 and just sign a vet until they’re more comfortable with someone next year. 

[bitonti]

13 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

A trade back could bring that to 8 of the top say 105 picks, that’s 8 swings at potential starters, bat .500 it’s a big win.

The Jets need stars more than starters 

[CanadaSteve]

Tomorrow's headline will probably read: "Jets looking to move on from Sam Darnold."

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The Jets need stars more than starters 

Well both but your point is valid.  We have maybe two 'stars' right now and maybe another 2-3 guys with the potential to become stars.  That's not nearly enough.

I look at the draft in terms of how many Tier 1 guys are there and hope to be picking within that number.  This backfired the year I thought there were 6 of them, and we picked sixth and took the last one...Gholston.  But I digress.

I figure the top guys to go in some order are probably TL, Fields, Wilson, Sewell, Chase, Pitts, Smith, maybe Waddle and Surtain.  I think any of them would fit the definition of 'star' for the Jets although some are better fits than others.  But if we landed anywhere form pick 6-8 we get our choice of at least two of these guys and a whole lot more draft capital for our trouble.  Deciding 'not' to be committed to a QB opens up a lot of possibilities.  And if somehow one of them does drop, then you got the same guy, cheaper, with a lot more picks to  boot.

So you start to look at comps like [ Darnold + Chase + extra 2022 1st rounder] vs. [Darnold + Smith + 2021 2nd rounder + 2022 1st rounder] vs. [Wilson + extra 2021 2nd rounder] and about a hundred more variations of that.  Maybe if you're lucky, you end up with [Fields/Wilson + extra 2022 1st rounder] or something like that.  If you want to accumulate a few stars, then trading down from 2 to the 4-8 range seems like the way to go.

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Well both but your point is valid.  We have maybe two 'stars' right now and maybe another 2-3 guys with the potential to become stars.  That's not nearly enough.

I look at the draft in terms of how many Tier 1 guys are there and hope to be picking within that number.  This backfired the year I thought there were 6 of them, and we picked sixth and took the last one...Gholston.  But I digress.

I figure the top guys to go in some order are probably TL, Fields, Wilson, Sewell, Chase, Pitts, Smith, maybe Waddle and Surtain.  I think any of them would fit the definition of 'star' for the Jets although some are better fits than others.  But if we landed anywhere form pick 6-8 we get our choice of at least two of these guys and a whole lot more draft capital for our trouble.  Deciding 'not' to be committed to a QB opens up a lot of possibilities.  And if somehow one of them does drop, then you got the same guy, cheaper, with a lot more picks to  boot.

So you start to look at comps like [ Darnold + Chase + extra 2022 1st rounder] vs. [Darnold + Smith + 2021 2nd rounder + 2022 1st rounder] vs. [Wilson + extra 2021 2nd rounder] and about a hundred more variations of that.  Maybe if you're lucky, you end up with [Fields/Wilson + extra 2022 1st rounder] or something like that.  If you want to accumulate a few stars, then trading down from 2 to the 4-8 range seems like the way to go.

You're basically asking for a deal with 3 teams cinci at 5, Philly at 6 and Carolina at 8. Drop any further that that they are in no man's land. This scenario is feasible but unlikely. 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

You're basically asking for a deal with 3 teams cinci at 5, Philly at 6 and Carolina at 8. Drop any further that that they are in no man's land. This scenario is feasible but unlikely. 

Even ATL at 4 works.  Probably get one of the QBs there if you want, otherwise you definitely get your choice of Chase or anyone else. 

But yes, 8 is about the lowest I'd like to see us drop.

[Biggs]

You can justify almost every move the Jets made for the last 50 years.  It’s only hindsight that has given us clarity.   Keeping or getting rid of Sam is irrelevant to the long term direction of this franchise.  If we have the right staff and GM we can make any number of decisions work long term and short term.  Sam is practically irrelevant compared to how good the GM and HC are and how much ownership interferes.  
 

Im going on record that I don’t care if we keep Sam, cut him or trade him to the Pats.  He’s not relevant to a good Jets team until he is...

[bitonti]

Just now, nycdan said:

Even ATL at 4 works.  Probably get one of the QBs there if you want, otherwise you definitely get your choice of Chase or anyone else.

Why are these teams trading up tho? 

Atlanta has too much invested in Matt Ryan to spend a 2 pick on a bench player 

Cincinnati would take Sewell, a player the Jets need as well 

Philadelphia might be more interested in Sewell or chase they are riding with hurts 

Carolina makes the most sense wanting a qb but then again they are the leaders of the Watson sweepstakes too 

Way I see it the blue chips are TL, Chase, Sewell and maybe Smith or Slater. Fields, Wilson, Pitts and the others are red chips. 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Why are these teams trading up tho? 

Atlanta has too much invested in Matt Ryan to spend a 2 pick on a bench player 

Cincinnati would take Sewell, a player the Jets need as well 

Philadelphia might be more interested in Sewell or chase they are riding with hurts 

Carolina makes the most sense wanting a qb but then again they are the leaders of the Watson sweepstakes too 

Way I see it the blue chips are TL, Chase, Sewell and maybe Smith or Slater. Fields, Wilson, Pitts and the others are red chips. 

If PHI wants Sewell at #2, then can come up and get him.  The Jets need Chase more than they need Sewell and that isn't factoring in FA which makes this all hypothetical for now anyway.  If PHI takes Sewell at #2, then two of Fields/Wilson/Chase/Pitts/Smith are available at #6.  I'd rather have one of those plus a 2021 2nd and 2022 1st from PHI than Sewell, all day every day.

Not saying there is a definite trade there for us, but if there is, I am inclined in this specific situation to like it.

[derp]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Even ATL at 4 works.  Probably get one of the QBs there if you want, otherwise you definitely get your choice of Chase or anyone else. 

But yes, 8 is about the lowest I'd like to see us drop.

I genuinely believe Fields is going to tumble a little. Getting down to 4 with Atlanta, taking one of the top two position players, and remaining in range to shoot up and grab Fields or Lance with the draft capital from the Atlanta trade while retaining pick 34 would be cool.

Posted this in another thread but there are ten guys who really have value to the Jets - the top four quarterbacks, top four pass catchers, and the top two offensive linemen. After that it gets muddy. Would be great to be able to double dip in that group by trading down and up.

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, nycdan said:

If PHI wants Sewell at #2, then can come up and get him.  The Jets need Chase more than they need Sewell and that isn't factoring in FA which makes this all hypothetical for now anyway.  If PHI takes Sewell at #2, then two of Fields/Wilson/Chase/Pitts/Smith are available at #6.  I'd rather have one of those plus a 2021 2nd and 2022 1st from PHI than Sewell, all day every day.

Not saying there is a definite trade there for us, but if there is, I am inclined in this specific situation to like it.

I'm reasonably certain that when we look back at this draft it's going to be Sewell who got away. Just like how they passed on Quenton Nelson for darnold. The qb need does not make the qb prospects better. 

[Philc1]

31 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The Jets need stars more than starters 

If you go BPA Sewell is the pick at 2.  

[Icer]

Sweet Sammy's super duper last rodeo

Lets hope he can crack the 180 YPG,  5YP/A, .8 TD ratio this year

 

Also looking forward to seeing Wilson, Fields, and Lance become all-pros somewhere else in typical Jets luck

[Biggs]

6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

If you go BPA Sewell is the pick at 2.  

He's going 6 to 10. 

[#27TheDominator]

I love this sh*t.  It's really the first year of rebuilding.  This is Sam Darnold's put up or shut up year!

[football guy]

There is no "growing buzz". Nothing has changed, and the "buzz" that they are "leaning towards" keeping Darnold has been the case since they lost out on the #1 pick. Douglas had his perspective and feelings, but he has an open mind and always felt that it's a process, and at the end of the day he, his staff, and the coaching staff would have to come to a consensus at some point before the draft.

If we're going to take Ben Volin as a journalist with integrity that actually reached out to people/teams and came away with this belief, it's because teams who reached out to the Jets believe this to be the case. If you're not returning counter-offers and not really giving teams an indication of what you would want for a player, teams don't have a reason to believe that player is truly available. 

Darnold isn't Rodgers, hence why the Jets won't flatly say "not available", and they appreciate the position they're in. I think that some of the insiders and biased Jet fanboys masquerading as analysts view that in too much of a binary sense saying "if a team isn't committed to their QB then he must not be there guy." As we've seen with the Raiders-Derek Carr, this isn't necessarily the case... he's been subject to trade speculation every offseason only because the Raiders haven't definitively stated "he's our QB" and have done their homework on others along the way. But that's the paradox in it: team's who declaratively state "X is our QB" turn around and trade their guys more often than the teams who seem to keep their options open. First it was Rosen, then it was Flacco, then it was Mariota, then it was Jameis, then it was Goff, then it was Wentz... all those guys were shipped off 3-8 months after their teams made such declarations. End of the day it's all media noise. 

The bottom line: the Jets need to vet these QBs, evaluate all of their options, and simulate all scenarios before making this decision. They will not allow outside influences or market theories disrupt their process. As a team, their priority is talent evaluation and free agency, but they're having high level discussions/mock offseasons how each potential transaction would impact their team building plan ("if we do this then what happens here")... it's a fluid situation and making ultimatums one way or the other is premature. 

[Guilhermezmc]

36 minutes ago, Icer said:

Sweet Sammy's super duper last rodeo

Lets hope he can crack the 210 YPG,  5YP/A, .8 TD ratio this year

 

Also looking forward to seeing Wilson, Fields, and Lance become all-pros somewhere else in typical Jets luck

This type of incompetence can't be blamed on luck

[oatmeal]

14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I love this sh*t.  It's really the first year of rebuilding.  This is Sam Darnold's put up or shut up year!

Not what Tony Pauline thinks 

Seems like common sense is infecting florham park

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

Not what Tony Pauline thinks 

Seems like common sense is infecting florham park

Sorry, I'm not sure who this Dar-Knoll person is that he keeps referring to.

[oatmeal]

Guys ask yourself this are KC, LA, Cincinnati aka the teams with young stud QBs, scouting the top QBs of this draft? You really think if the jets believed that Sam could be top 10, they would waste their time scouting QBs at the top of the draft? 
 

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

4 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Guys ask yourself this are KC, LA, Cincinnati aka the teams with young stud QBs, scouting the top QBs of this draft? You really think if the jets believed that Sam could be top 10, they would waste their time scouting QBs at the top of the draft? 

Who said they think he can be a top 10 QB? They know he's unproven, thus sending time on scouting QBs, to see what the best option is. This isn't hard. 

[oatmeal]

1 minute ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Who said they think he can be a top 10 QB? They know he's unproven, thus sending time on scouting QBs, to see what the best option is. This isn't hard. 

My point is, if a team has a young franchise QB they believe in they don’t scout QBs at the top of draft classes.
 

And a 3 year starter who’s been turning the ball before he even became a Jet:

 isn’t exactly unproven. He’s proven to be a bottom tier, injury prone, turnover prone QB - all cardinal sins of playing QB. 

[Biggs]

57 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I'm reasonably certain that when we look back at this draft it's going to be Sewell who got away. Just like how they passed on Quenton Nelson for darnold. The qb need does not make the qb prospects better. 

I'm reasonably certain taking a LT two years in a row with the first pick is suicide for a 2 and 14 team with needs all over the roster.  We can trade down and take Slater who can play all 5 OL positions if he doesn't rise up the board before the draft and he's way more athletic and would be dynamite in our zone run game. 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I'm reasonably certain taking a LT two years in a row with the first pick is suicide for a 2 and 14 team with needs all over the roster.  We can trade down and take Slater who can play all 5 OL positions if he doesn't rise up the board before the draft and he's way more athletic and would be dynamite in our zone run game. 

Becton is not a true left tackle in the NFL prototype sense. he is the Jets best lineman playing there out of necessity. Teams require 2 tackles. 

[Biggs]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Becton is not a true left tackle in the NFL prototype sense. he is the Jets best lineman playing there out of necessity. Teams require 2 tackles. 

Nonsense.  He's absolutely a true LT.  

[peebag]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

The Jets need stars more than starters 

Wrong.

They need both.

[flgreen]

18 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Knucklehead got the salary wrong by a factor of 10.

$9,794,266 to be precise! About $5mil less than what Watson is making this year! 

 

It will cost the Jets about $9.7M cap to keep Darnold with the roster bonus and all.  A team trading for him I believe will  cost  about $4.6M

[Jetsbb]

Jets are going to repeat the mistake of the 2017 NFL draft when they passed on Mahomes and Watson. Around and around we go.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Becton is not a true left tackle in the NFL prototype sense. he is the Jets best lineman playing there out of necessity. Teams require 2 tackles. 

Going into last year's draft, I considered the idea of adding two right side prospects and going from there.  For the Jets that might have meant rolling with Fant at LT.  At the time I was thinking Isiah Wilson at RT and Damien Lewis (LSU not the guy from Homeland) at RG.   Wilson went early and was a bust now considering quitting the league.  Lewis went the pick after Ashtyn Davis.  He started every game and was a beast for the Seahawks, though much penalized.  Neither may have been a great fit for this Shanahan ZBS, but I can't really remember.

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Nonsense.  He's absolutely a true LT.  

according to PFF his grade last year about average 30th or so among 64 starting tackles

he led the pro bowl voting among fans and didn't make the pro bowl 

I'm as big a supporter of Highway 77 as anyone but it's possible Jets fans are overrating this player a bit 

[bitonti]

42 minutes ago, peebag said:

Wrong.

They need both.

they do need both but stars are the players that change these games outcomes

starters just fill a spot 

 

[Jetsfan80]

19 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

You guys realize they can keep Sam and also draft his future replacement, right?

Like, it doesn’t have to be this difficult for y’all.

I don't think so.  Because Darnold is a FA after the season, I see no reason why Douglas would sacrifice the late 2nd rounder (or so) he could get for Darnold, subsequently letting him walk for nothing but a potential comp pick.  1 partial year of Darnold as your bridge option is not worth a late 2nd round pick or even a late 3rd.

There's going to be quite a few bridge QB options on the open market this offseason that Douglas/Saleh/Lafleur would likely be comfortable with.  It would be a much better use of resources to go that route. 

[Jetsfan80]

17 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

IMO the choice should be between drafting Sewell with the no 2 or trading down. And it depends on the package they can get from a team who wants Wilson. I’d keep Sam and trade for another Qb like a Minshew who could potentially beat out Sam. 

Daniel Jeremiah, who has connections with Douglas, doesn't even have Sewell as the top OT in the class.

It's just not happening.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I don't think so.  Because Darnold is a FA after the season, I see no reason why Douglas would sacrifice the late 2nd rounder (or so) he could get for Darnold, subsequently letting him walk for nothing but a potential comp pick.  1 partial year of Darnold as your bridge option is not worth a late 2nd round pick or even a late 3rd.

There's going to be quite a few bridge QB options on the open market this offseason that Douglas/Saleh/Lafleur would likely be comfortable with.  It would be a much better use of resources to go that route. 

Darnold would absolutely melt down if the Jets brought in a viable challenger for his job. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Darnold would absolutely melt down if the Jets brought in a viable challenger for his job. 

Mentally soft.