Rich Cimini: Jets should keep Sam Darnold

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Which home grown players deserved a big contract?  Robbie?  He didn't want to stay here and he didn't get a big contract going somewhere else.

The fact that he's top 5 in yards and was cheap to sign is kinda proving my point 

The British have a saying penny wise but pound foolish. That's the Johnsons they will pinch pennies on robby and Gase and characterize eating contracts as team improvement 

[Biggs]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Gase was the cheapest hc in the game. It's like saying they ate the payments on a used corolla with 200k miles 

Big whoop 

I like Robert Saleh too but Matt Rhule required a top 5 all time college football buyout from baylor. That's before the 8mil per year salary. Whether Rhule is good or not isn't the point, the hire shows commitment. 

It is the point.  To pay a fortune for an unproven college HC doesn't show commitment to winning anymore then paying big splash FA's or drafting poorly. 

Gase was better in his first year than Rhule was.  Gase got less of a commitment.  Gase is gone.  Seems like a lot smarter approach than going in on Matt Rhule who is completely unproven at the NFL level.

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

On short money. Making $8 million this year. With no contract extension in sight. Why should we have paid him when no one else wants to?

Because he had like a thousand yards this year with teddy Bridgewater throwing to him 

We knew he was good. They were cheap like they always are 

 

[bitonti]

Just now, Biggs said:

  Gase got less of a commitment.  Gase is gone.  Seems like a lot smarter approach than going in on Matt Rhule who is completely unproven at the NFL level.

It's not smarter to buy the same labor twice because you cheaped out the first time. Paying for Bowles and Gase after they are gone is not a sign of commitment. 

That's a sign of incompetence. 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Because he had like a thousand yards this year with teddy Bridgewater throwing to him 

We knew he was good. They were cheap like they always are 

 

You just said Carolina under Tepper is going to be the model franchise as far as spending, so let’s revisit this when Robbie Anderson is making more than Jamison Crowder maybe.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

There he is 

Despite the recent public relations onslaught, 

The upcoming bust of Zach wilson is among the most predictable from this draft class 

Of course that guy is going to be terrible. And he's not Josh Allen. He looks like the guy who delivers packages 

I can understand reaching a little bit on fields. I don't love it but I understand it. Shoot I can even be convinced of Lance or Mac Jones, if the moon is just right 

Wilson is a suspect prospect due to physical shortcomings and lack of competition. He's also kind of a jerk. Anyone but wilson is my draft hope at this point 

 

[Biggs]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The fact that he's top 5 in yards and was cheap to sign is kinda proving my point 

The British have a saying penny wise but pound foolish. That's the Johnsons they will pinch pennies on robby and Gase and characterize eating contracts as team improvement 

It doesn't prove your point.  He was 15th in yards in 2020 and 22nd in yards per reception.   Robbie didn't want to be here.  He got one offer and signed a mediocre deal.   FYI his last 100 yard plus game in 2020 was game 5.  In his last 11 games on Carolina he averaged 55.18 per.  

[Biggs]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It's not smarter to buy the same labor twice because you cheaped out the first time. Paying for Bowles and Gase after they are gone is not a sign of commitment. 

That's a sign of incompetence. 

Who said they were smart?  Woody and his brother are incompetent.  That doesn't mean they should have broke the bank for Matt Rhule.  We got lucky with Gase he got rid of Mac.  

[UntouchableCrew]

15 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I think the league feels the same as the Jets scouts and all of this other noise regarding Wilson/Fields is agent hot air. Especially Wilson. Wouldnt shock me if Mac Jones went ahead of either or both. 

Darnold is not the guy and will never be the guy. A placeholder for a season with presumably a bunch of rookie weapons I think is the better route to go, to at least get the better reps/looks. 

If the scouts throughout the league dont like Wilson or Fields just take Chase at 2 imo. Assuming the interviews go well and him skipping last year wasnt due to a lack of competitiveness. 

This is the exact opposite of what always happens.

The closer we get to the draft the more the QBs will be hyped up. QBs are much more commonly overdrafted than underdrafted.

If we aren't going to take a QB we have to trade down from 2. Taking a WR that high is crazy.

[JiF]

14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Pauline, on that draft network YouTube channel, just said that he thinks hanging on to Darnold is too risky for Douglas since it’d likely end up burning another year of Douglas’ regime, presuming Darnold doesn’t pull a 180. Pauline is of the belief that Douglas should move Darnold and start fresh.

Also said that the Jets are going to be aggressive in free agency, and Trey Hendrickson is a primary target. 
 

Also said that the Panthers are going to go hard after Watson, but the Jets are still likely in pole position, and that the Dolphins might be satisfied to sit at 3 and just take Jamar Chase. 

Pauline also said the Justin Fields only came of his first read 7 times on the entire season, which is the dumbest sh*t I've ever heard in my life.

Not sure if that matters to the inside scoop stuff but just thought I'd point out how terrible of a take that was.

[slimjasi]

12 hours ago, Grandy said:

I've been thinking the same with regards to that.

With what he's shown, rolling with Darnold is a bigger risk than taking most rookie QB's and has an extremely high chance of writing off Douglas' 3rd season before it even starts.

Bingo. 

Honestly, a lot of us have been saying this since December and I have yet to hear a decent counterargument. 

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Drew Brees, Alex Smith, Vinny Testaverde

Vinny Teestaverde was mediocre at brest in his 4th year. So that's two examples. Two. 

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, JiF said:

Pauline also said the Justin Fields only came of his first read 7 times on the entire season, which is the dumbest sh*t I've ever heard in my life.

Not sure if that matters to the inside scoop stuff but just thought I'd point out how terrible of a take that was.

Lots of scouts trying to reclaim their honor after hyping Dwayne Haskins as QB1 two years ago and taking it out on Fields. That said, Fields made a huge mistake going to Ohio State. Any doubts about his ability to operate an NFL offense are somewhat justified because OSU is such a QB sh*thole. 

[slimjasi]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Lots of scouts trying to reclaim their honor after hyping Dwayne Haskins as QB1 two years ago and taking it out on Fields. That said, Fields made a huge mistake going to Ohio State. Any doubts about his ability to operate an NFL offense are somewhat justified because OSU is such a QB sh*thole. 

Fields' big mistake was agreeing to play the part of sacrificial lamb in the title game against Alabama. 

Look at how much hype he got after the performance against Clemson.  He should have bowed out of the title game, as he was clearly hurt. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Fields' big mistake was agreeing to play the part of sacrificial lamb in the title game against Alabama. 

Look at how much hype he got after the performance against Clemson.  He should have bowed out of the title game, as he was clearly hurt. 

Maybe? I think the die was cast before that game, though. 

[PepPep]

12 hours ago, Grandy said:

I've been thinking the same with regards to that.

With what he's shown, rolling with Darnold is a bigger risk than taking most rookie QB's and has an extremely high chance of writing off Douglas' 3rd season before it even starts. Douglas has some room, but needs to start showing results soon. You could always wait another year, save picks, and take a QB in the future. However we'd just be mortgaging capital in the future when we're already in prime position to make a move if need be. 

We need to do full evaluation to see what the best option moving forward is. Sticking with Darnold is perhaps the riskiest thing we can do even though some think it's the safe route.

This has been my thought process. This is TOO GOOD of a position for JD to take a potential FQB on a rookie contract. New coach on 5 year deal, JD has 5 years left, FQB on potentially 5 year rookie contract. It just makes sense. If the Jets believe Fields or Wilson have the tools to be a legit FQB, which I don't see why they wouldn't, it makes a ton of sense to start from scratch and take one of them. Especially when you can still trade Darnold for at least a second rounder (per rumors). I like both rookies but I have been leaning towards Fields lately. The fact that there is a significant drop off from TL to Fields/Wilson is kind of irrelevant. I don't know how accurate that is, but even so, what difference does it make? The question is can Fields/Wilson win you games and serve as your potential FQB for the next 10 years. It's not like you will get a TL type prospect next year, or the following year. Frankly, the Jets may not find themselves in a position to draft a guy like Wilson/Fields for another 5-10 years, and will we then have to give up a ton of draft capital?    

[Jetsfan80]

15 hours ago, freestater said:

Sammy would kick the sh*t out of Coastal Carolina. 

Just sayin

Maybe

[Jetsfan80]

13 hours ago, Grandy said:

I've been thinking the same with regards to that.

With what he's shown, rolling with Darnold is a bigger risk than taking most rookie QB's and has an extremely high chance of writing off Douglas' 3rd season before it even starts. Douglas has some room, but needs to start showing results soon. You could always wait another year, save picks, and take a QB in the future. However we'd just be mortgaging capital in the future when we're already in prime position to make a move if need be. 

We need to do full evaluation to see what the best option moving forward is. Sticking with Darnold is perhaps the riskiest thing we can do even though some think it's the safe route.

 

Yep.  By kicking the can down the road at QB, you're putting way too much pressure on the 2022 QB class to be the place to find your QB.

Sam Darnold played a key role in getting 1 GM and 2 HC's fired.  Let's hope and pray Joe Douglas understands how risky it is to "run it back with Sam".  

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, dcJet said:

Sam may fix turnovers for one year, but will likely regress to his old turnover self.  That's the history for turnover prone QB's.

Vinnie fixed himself three times in a 20 year career but always reverted to turnover machine.   Fitzmagic too.  We can probably expect that from Sammy.

Or Sammy might be like Sanchez and Winston who were never fixed.

And to make matters worse, he provides no tangible upside.  If he was a turnover machine who also put points on the board, you can live with that.  Instead, he struggles to get to 200 yards in a game and only has three 3+ TD games in 38 starts.  No matter how bad the coaching or weppinzz, that's pathetic.  

[T0mShane]

[Jetsfan80]

45 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Bingo. 

Honestly, a lot of us have been saying this since December and I have yet to hear a decent counterargument. 

The only counterargument I've seen is "Well if the Jets miss at QB at pick 2 it'll set the franchise back 10 years."

Meanwhile, the Jets would need to play this same song and dance in 2022, likely with a later pick.  

"Ah, but the Jets can just trade up for a QB, since they'll have two firsts", they say.  Easier said than done, since we have no idea where we'll be picking or what the QB class will look like.  And that's also a highly risky strategy.  Those against trading heavy draft capital for Watson shouldn't be so quick to suggest a trade up in 2022.  That costs you too.

And I sincerely doubt the QB carousel will be turning nearly as much next offseason as it is in this one.  

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The only counterargument I've seen is "Well if the Jets miss at QB at pick 2 it'll set the franchise back 10 years."

Meanwhile, the Jets would need to play this same song and dance in 2022, likely with a later pick.  And I sincerely doubt the QB carousel will be turning nearly as much next offseason as it is in this one.  

Jets fans: Save picks, run it back with Darnold and let LaFleur and Saleh fix him. Three picks for Deshaun is outrageous

<Jets go 6-10, get the 12th pick in the draft>
 

Also Jets fans, next year: Maybe we can trade four ones to move up for Spencer Rattler

[JiF]

52 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Lots of scouts trying to reclaim their honor after hyping Dwayne Haskins as QB1 two years ago and taking it out on Fields. That said, Fields made a huge mistake going to Ohio State. Any doubts about his ability to operate an NFL offense are somewhat justified because OSU is such a QB sh*thole. 

Meh, this has been broken down at length.  They completely revamped the offense to Fields.  Totally different.  They're run a mesh concept, same concept as Haskins but they run it 10 yards further down field.  Watch some of OSU, they run 4 verts more than anyone in the country (which is why Pauline is moron for saying he doesnt come off his first read).  The 20/21  offense looked more like Bruce Arians were calling the plays vs. Urban Day.

 

[T0mShane]

Just now, JiF said:

Meh, this has been broken down at length.  They completely revamped the offense to Fields.  Totally different.  They're run a mesh concept, same concept as Haskins but they run it 10 yards further down field.  Watch some of OSU, they run 4 verts more than anyone in the country (which is why Pauline is moron for saying he doesnt come off his first read).  The 20/21  offense looked more like Bruce Arians were calling the plays vs. Urban Day.

 

I feel like all this can be true, but it seems like 90% of scouting is doing CYA work regarding your previous ****-ups and Fields has to overcome all of that. I have no doubt he’s smart and talented, but he’s going to be weighed down by the Haskins failures and being attached to Urban and Day. 

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Thank you for naming 1% unicorns, Sam should have a easy time reaching that. I guess Saleh and staff are miracle workers, transforming basement QBs into studs. Silly me ?

The Drew Brees comparison is so intellectually dishonest.

Brees played very well in his fourth year in the league, but it was his 3rd year actually playing, and only 27 prior starts.  Sam Darnold has played 3 years, was a disaster in year 3, and had a similar 26 prior starts leading into the year.

So, after 26/27 starts, Brees went 11-4, throwing for 3100 yards, 65% completion, and 27 TDs to 7 INTs while Sam went 2-10 throwing for 2200 yards, 59% completion, and 9 TDs to 11 INTs, and is PFF's worst QB in the NFL and 2nd worst when removing throws under pressure.

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

There he is 

Despite the recent public relations onslaught, 

The upcoming bust of Zach wilson is among the most predictable from this draft class 

Of course that guy is going to be terrible. And he's not Josh Allen. He looks like the guy who delivers packages 

I can understand reaching a little bit on fields. I don't love it but I understand it. Shoot I can even be convinced of Lance or Mac Jones, if the moon is just right 

Wilson is a suspect prospect due to physical shortcomings and lack of competition. He's also kind of a jerk. Anyone but wilson is my draft hope at this point 

I think this is fair.  In sort of the same way I correctly predicted that no one named Mitchell would be a successful NFL Quarterback.

Bears should have put me on the payroll.

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, dcJet said:

Sam may fix turnovers for one year, but will likely regress to his old turnover self.  That's the history for turnover prone QB's.

Vinnie fixed himself three times in a 20 year career but always reverted to turnover machine.   Fitzmagic too.  We can probably expect that from Sammy.

Or Sammy might be like Sanchez and Winston who were never fixed.

Indeed.  You can't be Brett Favre without Brett Favre's arm.  And that's exactly what Sam Darnold is.

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I think this is fair.  In sort of the same way I correctly predicted that no one named Mitchell would be a successful NFL Quarterback.

Bears should have put me on the payroll.

this is not a pro Darnold post

there's never been a successful red headed QB

Wentz only reinforces the stereotype

I don't make the rules I just report them from the pillory stocks 

[DetroitRed]

6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The Drew Brees comparison is so intellectually dishonest.

Brees played very well in his fourth year in the league, but it was his 3rd year actually playing, and only 27 prior starts.  Sam Darnold has played 3 years, was a disaster in year 3, and had a similar 26 prior starts leading into the year.

So, after 26/27 starts, Brees went 11-4, throwing for 3100 yards, 65% completion, and 27 TDs to 7 INTs while Sam went 2-10 throwing for 2200 yards, 59% completion, and 9 TDs to 11 INTs, and is PFF's worst QB in the NFL and 2nd worst when removing throws under pressure.

Brees was 25 going on 26

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

What homegrown player should they have paid, though? 

 

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Brees was 25 going on 26

What, specifically, about age suggests improvement at quarterback?

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is not a pro Darnold post

there's never been a successful red headed QB

Wentz only reinforces the stereotype

I don't make the rules I just report them from the pillory stocks 

In fairness, wouldn't Andy Dalton have been like the 2nd best QB in Jets history?

[Lith]

12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is not a pro Darnold post

there's never been a successful red headed QB

Wentz only reinforces the stereotype

I don't make the rules I just report them from the pillory stocks 

Never say never.  I am old enough to watched Sonny Jurgensen.  Red headed QB and Hall of Famer. 

Retired in 1974, so we are at 47 years and counting.

[oatmeal]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Jets fans: Save picks, run it back with Darnold and let LaFleur and Saleh fix him. Three picks for Deshaun is outrageous

<Jets go 6-10, get the 12th pick in the draft>
 

Also Jets fans, next year: Maybe we can trade four ones to move up for Spencer Rattler

[bitonti]

21 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

In fairness, wouldn't Andy Dalton have been like the 2nd best QB in Jets history?

he's available, probably 

14 minutes ago, Lith said:

Never say never.  I am old enough to watched Sonny Jurgensen.  Red headed QB and Hall of Famer. 

Retired in 1974, so we are at 47 years and counting.

5'11" 202 BY GAWD that's Zach Wilson's intro music

4th rd pick 

very interesting, like the Jets SB win it happened before my time