Rich Cimini: Jets should keep Sam Darnold

[Jetsfan80]

40 minutes ago, isired said:

You realize Darnold is Brees in this scenario, right? Let's hope we don't let go of the wrong guy too.

0 times in Jets history has a Jet QB who failed in NY gone on to success elsewhere.  And only a handful of QB's in NFL history who sucked for 3 years went on to legitimate success later on (meanwhile, there are dozens of instances where a highly drafted QB who sucked for 3 years continued to suck).  

At least 4 times since 1999, the Jets have missed out on a great QB because they were holding out hope the one(s) on the roster already would become franchise guys.  

 

Color me far more concerned about the latter scenario playing out than the former.  And you should be, too.

[Welp]

5 hours ago, TeddEY said:

What's your point?  That we should be aggressive like the Chargers and draft another QB (after 27 starts) when the one you have has failed to demonstrate he can play?  Rather than just give another year to the worst QB in the NFL over 38 starts?

That sounds like a good idea.

The point is the evidence of QBs being successful in their 4th year and Drew Brees being an example which you were trying to shoot down except his breakout season could probably be attributed to having superior talent around him.

Sure if the Jets want to draft a QB with their 2nd pick and have them compete then get an undrafted HOF TE in addition to finding a young HOF RB I’m all for it as well. Makes the team better regardless of what ultimately happens with Darnold.

[isired]

0 times in Jets history has a Jet QB who failed in NY gone on to success elsewhere.  And only a handful of QB's in NFL history who sucked for 3 years went on to legitimate success later on (meanwhile, there are dozens of instances where a highly drafted QB who sucked for 3 years continued to suck).  
At least 4 times since 1999, the Jets have missed out on a great QB because they were holding out hope the one(s) on the roster already would become franchise guys.  
 
Color me far more concerned about the latter scenario playing out than the former.  And you should be, too.

I mean, look up above for one example (Pebnongton'w first year in Miami). Favre was more successful in Minn.

But that's besides the point. The issue is, Lawrence is a prospect yiu dump Darnold for, hands down and figure out the rest. The other guys are similar to what you get every year. So I think you risk more by spending #2 on a probable JAG than getting the BPA all over the board and getting your QB a year or two later. I hate the idea of spending #2 on a QB that's not really a top 10 pick.

[ZachEY]

8 minutes ago, Welp said:

The point is the evidence of QBs being successful in their 4th year and Drew Brees being an example which you were trying to shoot down except his breakout season could probably be attributed to having superior talent around him.

Sure if the Jets want to draft a QB with their 2nd pick and have them compete then get an undrafted HOF TE in addition to finding a young HOF RB I’m all for it as well. Makes the team better regardless of what ultimately happens with Darnold.

I'm shooting it down because they've already had the same amount of starts, and Brees was already good, and because Sam Darnold is the worsts QB in the league, for starts over the past 3 years, something Brees never was.

Bringing up Drew Brees is just a desperate attempt at optimism about the leagues worst QB, who shares very few, if any, attributes with him.

[Welp]

13 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I'm shooting it down because they've already had the same amount of starts, and Brees was already good, and because Sam Darnold is the worsts QB in the league, for starts over the past 3 years, something Brees never was.

Bringing up Drew Brees is just a desperate attempt at optimism about the leagues worst QB, who shares very few, if any, attributes with him.

Again you ignore the fact that Brees had better talent around him. He came into the league with LT who was a 1000 yard rusher from the start and a pro bowler his 2nd year. LT had 100 catches his 3rd year for Brees. Darnold has none of that so sure you’re right it’s a desperate attempt for optimism because Darnold has been setup to fail while the Chargers made sure Brees had parts around him to suceed.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Welp said:

Again you ignore the fact that Brees had better talent around him. He came into the league with LT who was a 1000 yard rusher from the start and a pro bowler his 2nd year. LT had 100 catches his 3rd year for Brees. Darnold has none of that so sure you’re right it’s a desperate attempt for optimism because Darnold has been setup to fail while the Chargers made sure Brees had parts around him to suceed.

Can you name a player who was the worst QB in the league without elite talent, and then got better talent, and became great.

Both Gates and Tomlinson were around before Brees's breakout year.  So, maybe, just maybe, Brees was a talented QB who got better while Sam Darnold, who yes, doesn't have great talent around him, sucks anyway.  You know he was a turnover machine at USC too, right?

[Bronx]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

0 times in Jets history has a Jet QB who failed in NY gone on to success elsewhere.  And only a handful of QB's in NFL history who sucked for 3 years went on to legitimate success later on (meanwhile, there are dozens of instances where a highly drafted QB who sucked for 3 years continued to suck).  

At least 4 times since 1999, the Jets have missed out on a great QB because they were holding out hope the one(s) on the roster already would become franchise guys.  

 

Color me far more concerned about the latter scenario playing out than the former.  And you should be, too.

Draft Zach and let him fight it with Darnold. That has to be the safest thing to do in my opinion.

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, isired said:

 

I mean, look up above for one example (Pebnongton'w first year in Miami). Favre was more successful in Minn.

But that's besides the point. The issue is, Lawrence is a prospect yiu dump Darnold for, hands down and figure out the rest. The other guys are similar to what you get every year. So I think you risk more by spending #2 on a probable JAG than getting the BPA all over the board and getting your QB a year or two later. I hate the idea of spending #2 on a QB that's not really a top 10 pick.

This is how you draft Jamal Adams over Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson, of course.

Also, I'd hardly call Chad Pennington going to the Dolphins and them introducing an offense the NFL had never seen before to mask his deficiencies and then him throwing 4 picks in one playoff game, coming back to bite the Jets.

[Jets Things]

1 hour ago, Bronx said:

Draft Zach and let him fight it with Darnold. That has to be the safest thing to do in my opinion.

It's safe if Zach can beat out Darnold. If he can't, JD looks like the biggest schmuck since John Schneider. 

[Welp]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Can you name a player who was the worst QB in the league without elite talent, and then got better talent, and became great.

Both Gates and Tomlinson were around before Brees's breakout year.  So, maybe, just maybe, Brees was a talented QB who got better while Sam Darnold, who yes, doesn't have great talent around him, sucks anyway.  You know he was a turnover machine at USC too, right?

Ummm Troy Aikman? Hell why don’t you name me a great QB that has thrived in Darnold’s situation with a lack of talent and coaching instability in their first 3 years.

And Gates was an undrafted rookie in 2003 who showed promise by the end of the year and was primed to breakout the following year in 2004 the same year Brees broke out. So it isn’t a coincidence that having elite receiving talent helps the QB “get better”.

And yes in order for Darnold to ever turn the corner he needs to cut down on his interceptions but he fixed his fumbling issues so hopefully with better talent and coaching that will come along as well either here or with another team.

[ZachEY]

16 minutes ago, Welp said:

Ummm Troy Aikman? Hell why don’t you name me a great QB that has thrived in Darnold’s situation with a lack of talent and coaching instability in their first 3 years.

And Gates was an undrafted rookie in 2003 who showed promise by the end of the year and was primed to breakout the following year in 2004 the same year Brees broke out. So it isn’t a coincidence that having elite receiving talent helps the QB “get better”.

And yes in order for Darnold to ever turn the corner he needs to cut down on his interceptions but he fixed his fumbling issues so hopefully with better talent and coaching that will come along as well either here or with another team.

I'm not going to make you any list of names, because I'm not the one who needs comparisons to support my argument.  I'm making the exceptionally simple point that apparently is hard to grasp, that the QB who was not good his junior year of college, that QBASE gave a high bust rate to, and who was not good for three seasons in the NFL, is in fact, not good.  Mind blowing stuff, I know.

You Darnold Stans are the ones doing the mental gymnastics and in need of huge reaches of logic to defend a guy who's been the NFL's worst QB for three years.  If Darnold were good, we'd have seen it by now.  No one is expecting him to run a prolific offense with the tools around him, but there's plenty of room between great and terrible/worst.  Competent people, be them football players, or any other professionals, can and will look competent in difficult circumstances, even if they're unable to fully succeed.  Hell, even Joe Flacco, who literally signed on to cash checks and wanted nothing to do with football this year, threw 6 TDs to 3 INTs.  Imagine what someone who gave a sh*t could have done!  Darnold has simply looked terrible.  In three seasons, he's had one game where he looked like a good QB.  One. 

Sam Darnold sucks at football.  I'm not sure why this should surprise anyone.  But, that's where things stand.

[Welp]

20 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I'm not going to make you any list of names, because I'm not the one who needs comparisons to support my argument.  I'm making the exceptionally simple point that apparently is hard to grasp, that the QB who was not good his junior year of college, that QBASE gave a high bust rate to, and who was not good for three seasons in the NFL, is in fact, not good.  Mind blowing stuff, I know.

You Darnold Stans are the ones doing the mental gymnastics and in need of huge reaches of logic to defend a guy who's been the NFL's worst QB for three years.  If Darnold were good, we'd have seen it by now.  No one is expecting him to run a prolific offense with the tools around him, but there's plenty of room between great and terrible/worst.  Competent people, be them football players, or any other professionals, can and will look competent in difficult circumstances, even if they're unable to fully succeed.  Hell, even Joe Flacco, who literally signed on to cash checks and wanted nothing to do with football this year, threw 6 TDs to 3 INTs.  Imagine what someone who gave a sh*t could have done!  Darnold has simply looked terrible.  In three seasons, he's had one game where he looked like a good QB.  One. 

Sam Darnold sucks at football.  I'm not sure why this should surprise anyone.  But, that's where things stand.

So we agree to disagree. No one is doing any mental gymnastics I just believe your surroundings and stability have an affect on your development in anything in life but guess that’s difficult for some people to comprehend that concept. But hey it is what it is.

[Philc1]

On 2/24/2021 at 9:16 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

The problem with citing Berrios & Hogan:

• he didn't regularly have that hardship from his first game as a rookie to his last in 2020
• it's not like there was some night & day difference when he had his full WR corps
• That also ignores that Berrios, while not an all-pro talent, actually played pretty well in his couple starts. I wouldn't therefore rely upon him to start 16 games because of it, but it's not like all he did was trip over his own feet, get easily blanketed by every DB & take 4 seconds to get any separation, and then repeatedly drop easy passes that hit him in the numbers. 

A more damning look is how WR starters other than those two did before & after Sam, and/or with/without Sam. And I'm not talking about with Luke Falk; the argument was never that Falk should be the team's FQB.

• Anderson before, with, and after Sam is the most damning; even more so when one factors in it's not like the QBs before & after Darnold (McCown & Bridgewater) were such ace gunslingers themselves.
• Or even Perriman (with Darnold vs. with Winston/Flacco) of late. He's totally unreliable but when he was on the field for a starter-number of snaps the past couple years, his without Darnold dwarfed those with him. 
• Ditto Crowder, comparing to his numbers with Cousins & Alex Smith, not with the trash QBs (Josh Johnson / McCoy / Sanchez) in for Alex Smith when Crowder came back from his 7-8 week ankle injury. 

All of them are worse on the receiving end of Darnold's passes. It's upsetting; we all wanted Sam to be great, like we finally we got lucky & we got one. And no one is happy to see that he's been mostly terrible, even grading on a curve with the challenging situations he's been in. 

It's not his physical tools that primarily concern anyone. To illustrate that point, Geno Smith had (and probably still has) the necessary physical tools, too, so it takes a lot more than that. The mental mistakes don't paint the picture of a QB about to bust out and become a top 10 QB, let alone the top 3-5 QB he was drafted to be. That's regardless of the fill-in receivers when 2 (or even 3) starters were down.

If he was awesome other than the Berrios/Hogan games, no one would blame him any more than people are blaming Mahomes while under that relentless pressure in the SB.

Sam was significantly better in 2019 with Robby when he went 7-7 as a starter

 

And Robby isn’t even a great WR.  He’s decent which is way better than Hogan and trash 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Sam was significantly better in 2019 with Robby when he went 7-7 as a starter

 

And Robby isn’t even a great WR.  He’s decent which is way better than Hogan and trash 

1100 yards with Teddy Bridgewater (and Philip Walker) - a QB Carolina badly wants to dump themselves - and was on pace for the same with Josh McCown. I don’t think he’s a great receiver, and no one says he was, but he’s better than “decent” or being merely above “Hogan and trash” as well. 

And 7-7? Really?

• It was 6-6 plus an eked out facepalm “win” against the Bills’ practice squad. 
• Considering the Darnold offense put up a whopping 7 points against Buf’s actual starters in week 1, I think that’s beyond grading on a curve to use that win as any justification for anything.
• His big claims to fame  that year - which are also the only ones over a 3-year career, mind you - was an upset over Dallas (who made choking a science, finishing 8-8 despite top 10 statistical offenses and defenses) and a 3-game stretch against a who’s who of trash defenses.
• The ****ing Jaguars picked off 10 passes all year long, and 3 of them were off Darnold in their one matchup. It’s a major leap of faith to figure the Jets even win 1 game (never mind 2) in the 3 games he missed (for contracting mono — mono!).
• If he’s playing against others’ starters the whole way, then it’s a serious leap of faith to guess the team doesn’t finish 6-10 anyway, since they’d most likely get swept against Buf’s starters plus the 3 mono games against Cle, NE, and Phi. Drop that to 5-10 if Roethlisberger isn’t on IR. A questionable DPI on an undrafted rookie corner sealed another eked out win against the 5-win Dolphins.
• So, some context is needed before a record alone is left as evidence of competence.

Dude, he’s been terrible. No one disputes he’d look better in a better situation, but then so would anybody. It just doesn’t look like it’ll happen that he’s the guy who’ll beat good teams, which is ultimately what’s needed. There’s a lot more that’s wrong to his game so far than a lack of talent around him. He looks like he needs to be benched for a rookie season now to work on those things.

Even still, a QB who could put up nice stats against lousy teams, crap the bed against the rest, and ultimately leave the team looking for a QB upgrade? That’s Mitch Trubisky (who’s far more proven than Darnold thus far). He’s available if you value that.

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

1100 yards with Teddy Bridgewater (and Philip Walker) - a QB Carolina badly wants to dump themselves - and was on pace for the same with Josh McCown. I don’t think he’s a great receiver, and no one says he was, but he’s better than “decent” or being merely above “Hogan and trash” as well. 

And 7-7? Really?

• It was 6-6 plus an eked out facepalm “win” against the Bills’ practice squad. 
• Considering the Darnold offense put up a whopping 7 points against Buf’s actual starters in week 1, I think that’s beyond grading on a curve to use that win as any justification for anything.
• His big claims to fame  that year - which are also the only ones over a 3-year career, mind you - was an upset over Dallas (who made choking a science, finishing 8-8 despite top 10 statistical offenses and defenses) and a 3-game stretch against a who’s who of trash defenses.
• The ****ing Jaguars picked off 10 passes all year long, and 3 of them were off Darnold in their one matchup. It’s a major leap of faith to figure the Jets even win 1 game (never mind 2) in the 3 games he missed (for contracting mono — mono!).
• If he’s playing against others’ starters the whole way, then it’s a serious leap of faith to guess the team doesn’t finish 6-10 anyway, since they’d most likely get swept against Buf’s starters plus the 3 mono games against Cle, NE, and Phi. Drop that to 5-10 if Roethlisberger isn’t on IR. A questionable DPI on an undrafted rookie corner sealed another eked out win against the 5-win Dolphins.
• So, some context is needed before a record alone is left as evidence of competence.

Dude, he’s been terrible. No one disputes he’d look better in a better situation, but then so would anybody. It just doesn’t look like it’ll happen that he’s the guy who’ll beat good teams, which is ultimately what’s needed. There’s a lot more that’s wrong to his game so far than a lack of talent around him. He looks like he needs to be benched for a rookie season now to work on those things.

Even still, a QB who could put up nice stats against lousy teams, crap the bed against the rest, and ultimately leave the team looking for a QB upgrade? That’s Mitch Trubisky (who’s far more proven than Darnold thus far). He’s available if you value that.

So does this mean Robby would go for 2,000 yards if he played with Aaron Rodgers?

[ZachEY]

10 hours ago, Welp said:

So we agree to disagree. No one is doing any mental gymnastics I just believe your surroundings and stability have an affect on your development in anything in life but guess that’s difficult for some people to comprehend that concept. But hey it is what it is.

We can comprehend what you're trying to sell.  The problem is, you're trying to explain his situation as to why he's the worst QB in the NFL, yet still has huge upside.  This isn't a mediocre player who appears poised for a breakout, if he weren't routinely limited by those around him.  This is a terrible player, who, frankly, is probably making his situation worse, rather than the opposite.

7 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Sam was significantly better in 2019 with Robby when he went 7-7 as a starter

 

And Robby isn’t even a great WR.  He’s decent which is way better than Hogan and trash 

Sam also played all of FO's bottom 6 defenses, including Miami twice, and a Bills team resting starters, on his way to his heroic 6-2 finish.

That's why it's obvious he didn't regress, he just wasn't given that amazing gift of a schedule again.

[Philc1]

5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

We can comprehend what you're trying to sell.  The problem is, you're trying to explain his situation as to why he's the worst QB in the NFL, yet still has huge upside.  This isn't a mediocre player who appears poised for a breakout, if he weren't routinely limited by those around him.  This is a terrible player, who, frankly, is probably making his situation worse, rather than the opposite.

Sam also played all of FO's bottom 6 defenses, including Miami twice, and a Bills team resting starters, on his way to his heroic 6-2 finish.

That's why it's obvious he didn't regress, he just wasn't given that amazing gift of a schedule again.

He would have beaten the bills week 1 if he didn’t have herpes

[isired]

I don’t think anyone is saying Sam is for-sure going to be great. I feel like we don't know for sure, but if you look at film, even his NFL film, there's no way you could confidently say Fields is a better prospect, even now. Yeah, if you watched one game, you'd take Fields over Lawrence, but that's one game. And Wilson is intriguing, his film certainly looks better than Fields, more on par with Sam as a prospect even when taking level of competition into account, but he's a big time reach at 2. I see it as a Trubisky-type pick at 2, not a Mahomes / Watson at 10 / 12. But the league has changed, even since 2017, so there won't be any Trubisky-level head-scratching no matter which QB they take at 2, unless they dig way deep and piss us all off.

But that's my opinion, if JD feels either of those guys is a good bet to be our FQB in the 2020's, to put the team on his back in a way that Sam probably can't, then pull the trigger at 2.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

So does this mean Robby would go for 2,000 yards if he played with Aaron Rodgers?

Obviously that's what I'm saying. Good call lol. 

[LIJetsFan]

On 2/24/2021 at 3:47 PM, isired said:

We should build a team and run Darnold back.

I was all in to dump Sam for Lawrence, the kind of prospect that you can only get this year, if we were in a position to get him.

But I feel like you can get a prospect like a Fields or a Wilson just about any year, and we have a lot of holes. Use the picks and the cap, start filling holes, and see if Darnold really is a bust. If you do it right, at least you're bringing your 2022 or 2023 version of Fields or Wilson into a good situation.

Swap out Morgan for Darnold and I'd be more willing to go this route.  ....because Sam IS a bust.  

[Adobolo]

 

 

[T0mShane]

Wow. Kiper drops the hammer on Casper the Friendly Mahomes:

 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Wow. Kiper drops the hammer on Casper the Friendly Mahomes:

 

Angry cultists in 3...2...1...

[oatmeal]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Wow. Kiper drops the hammer on Casper the Friendly Mahomes:

 

Damn.

 

 He said he has Fields over Wilson which i agree with but even though Zach and Darnold are very similar with that backyard style, Zach is more talented imo

And taking a TE? No ty 

 

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Damn.

 

 He said he has Fields over Wilson which i agree with but even though Zach and Darnold are very similar with that backyard style, Zach is more talented imo

And taking a TE? No ty 

 

Zach Wilson really hasn't played anyone 

there's no amount of PR or working out Team Wilson can do to change his passer rating vs Power 5 comp

as for what the Jets should do this offseason, this team has like 2 great players and a handful of maybes, it's a total rebuild. Even with all the cap space and draft picks they will likely be really really bad again. Like QB-ruiningly bad.  

a new offensive system, a change from 3-4 for 4-3, new skills on offense, they have too many checkboxes to hit to add franchise QB to the 21 to do list

it's not that Darnold is going to be great or whatever it's that they aren't ready to groom/ruin another QB 

 

[oatmeal]

10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Zach Wilson really hasn't played anyone 

there's no amount of PR or working out Team Wilson can do to change his passer rating vs Power 5 comp

as for what the Jets should do this offseason, this team has like 2 great players and a handful of maybes, it's a total rebuild. Even with all the cap space and draft picks they will likely be really really bad again. Like QB-ruiningly bad.  

a new offensive system, a change from 3-4 for 4-3, new skills on offense, they have too many checkboxes to hit to add franchise QB to the 21 to do list

it's not that Darnold is going to be great or whatever it's that they aren't ready to groom/ruin another QB 

 

Next years draft class blows in comparison to the QBs at the top this year. So idk ...

 

BUT our GM did draft a QB who couldn’t even make the depth chart, will be interesting to see what happens 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Next years draft class blows in comparison to the QBs at the top this year. So idk ... 

people say that 

Cam Newton wasn't even in the top 500 players the year prior to going 1.1

alot can change in a year 

heck last year people said Sewell was the number 2 player in the country behind Trevor. Fields was known, Zach was not.  

if we are going by last year... right? 

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

people say that 

Cam Newton wasn't even in the top 500 players the year prior to going 1.1

alot can change in a year 

heck last year people said Sewell was the number 2 player in the country behind Trevor. Fields was known, Zach was not.  

if we are going by last year... right? 

Unless you love you some Sam Howell, next years QB class is not good, like at all.  Everyone can bring up Cam and Joe Burrow, but I’m telling you right now it’s going to be a s**t class.   
 

[derp]

28 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Unless you love you some Sam Howell, next years QB class is not good, like at all.  Everyone can bring up Cam and Joe Burrow, but I’m telling you right now it’s going to be a s**t class.   
 

Yeah there’s going to need to be something major. Jayden Daniels has fun highlights at times but I haven’t dug into him at all and he’s very thin.

[sec101row23]

9 minutes ago, derp said:

Yeah there’s going to need to be something major. Jayden Daniels has fun highlights at times but I haven’t dug into him at all and he’s very thin.

I just don’t see any of these guys making a major leap.  Daniels is fun, but I would take Fields over him in a second.  I see people touting Bo Nix...Lol.  Really?  The 190 pound Spencer Rattler?  Hell no.  Slovis? Tyler Shough who just transferred to Texas Tech?  None of those guys excite me.  Maybe JT Daniels makes some noise in Georgia, maybe.   
 

This is the year to address the QB, either trade for Deshaun or draft one at 2.  Besides, who’s to say you would even be in striking distance to get a Qb next year?  You going to trade up for a Keedon Slovis next year?  Lol..   

[oatmeal]

53 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Unless you love you some Sam Howell, next years QB class is not good, like at all.  Everyone can bring up Cam and Joe Burrow, but I’m telling you right now it’s going to be a s**t class.   
 

This

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

Zach Wilson really hasn't played anyone 

there's no amount of PR or working out Team Wilson can do to change his passer rating vs Power 5 comp

as for what the Jets should do this offseason, this team has like 2 great players and a handful of maybes, it's a total rebuild. Even with all the cap space and draft picks they will likely be really really bad again. Like QB-ruiningly bad.  

a new offensive system, a change from 3-4 for 4-3, new skills on offense, they have too many checkboxes to hit to add franchise QB to the 21 to do list

it's not that Darnold is going to be great or whatever it's that they aren't ready to groom/ruin another QB 

 

This really is a dumb argument and it's getting old by now.  

Who cares who he played? Who cares what he looked like when his team was completely outmatched.  You're not drafting his record or stats.

I got news for you, once he's in the NFL the stats he had, the teams he played, his record again Power 5 team don't mean anything.  AT ALL.

Fields doesn't get points for playing tougher teams and Wilson doesn't get demerits for not.  

You are drafting a SKILL-SET a player - not his college career.  

You can use this line and basically concede that you don't know enough to scout him well enough to make a determination, because you didn't see him against enough strong competition - and you're simply unable to look beyond that - That's fine and I can appreciate that.

But the experts, the scouts and GMs - can look past his record - they can look at arm strength, accuracy, touch and his overall skill-set to make a determination on how he'll translate to the NFL.  Many have and many have him listed as the 2nd best QB prospect in the draft - putting a very high grade on him.

 

[derp]

31 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I just don’t see any of these guys making a major leap.  Daniels is fun, but I would take Fields over him in a second.  I see people touting Bo Nix...Lol.  Really?  The 190 pound Spencer Rattler?  Hell no.  Slovis? Tyler Shough who just transferred to Texas Tech?  None of those guys excite me.  Maybe JT Daniels makes some noise in Georgia, maybe.   
 

This is the year to address the QB, either trade for Deshaun or draft one at 2.  Besides, who’s to say you would even be in striking distance to get a Qb next year?  You going to trade up for a Keedon Slovis next year?  Lol..   

Yeah I absolutely agree this is the year if that’s the goal. I wouldn’t mind taking one after a trade down, particularly if Wilson is the guy a team is trading up for. Top of the draft hasn't been super QB friendly of late. But if you want one may as well make that move now.

[bitonti]

32 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This really is a dumb argument and it's getting old by now.  

Who cares who he played? Who cares what he looked like when his team was completely outmatched.  You're not drafting his record or stats.

I got news for you, once he's in the NFL the stats he had, the teams he played, his record again Power 5 team don't mean anything.  AT ALL.

Fields doesn't get points for playing tougher teams and Wilson doesn't get demerits for not.  

You are drafting a SKILL-SET a player - not his college career.  

You can use this line and basically concede that you don't know enough to scout him well enough to make a determination, because you didn't see him against enough strong competition - and you're simply unable to look beyond that - That's fine and I can appreciate that.

But the experts, the scouts and GMs - can look past his record - they can look at arm strength, accuracy, touch and his overall skill-set to make a determination on how he'll translate to the NFL.  Many have and many have him listed as the 2nd best QB prospect in the draft - putting a very high grade on him.

 

 

[Dunnie]

 

Please include complete rosters of supporting casts ... that is all.

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