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Nightmare scenario: What does JD do in the draft and free agency if Deshaun Watson ends up in Miami?


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1 hour ago, varjet said:

The Jets have to make a credible on the aggressive side offer for Watson.  Like 2 firsts, and maybe another pick.

If for no other reason than it would end up increasing the price for Miami or Carolina.  We don’t need Miami to end up with both Watson and draft picks. 

For trading Mack to the Bears the Raiders got 2 1st's a 2nd a 3rd and a 5th and 6th. I know we have a high 1st but until the Texan's agree to trade him no one really has a clue what they would want..

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There was a time when we had Marino and Kelly in our division. Talk about a nightmare. In my opinion, should that happen, you create a balanced football team. Keep SD, trade back and get as much smart

If the Jets make a fair offer for Watson and he ends up in Miami, so be it. But if we're looking for a template to model, it's not Miami's, it's Buffalo's.  Buffalo did a great job evaluating All

Does that mean we are waiting for them both to retire before we try to compete? 

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2 hours ago, New York Mick said:

It definitely means it didn’t work. Everything a team does should be for one reason. Being the next dynasty. Not some knee jerk reaction to make fans happy for 6 months and sell tickets. 

I dont think any would agree.  Because it doesnt make sense

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13 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Tampa traded 4 1sts and 2 2nds for Keyshawn and Gruden and then won their first SB. Keyshawn also got a giant contract from Tampa after the trade. 

???? Sperm the Jets got 2 1st picks 13 and 27(and no 2nd's) we had a total of 4 1st's that year but just 2 were from the Buc's..

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On 2/26/2021 at 9:05 AM, genot said:

Nobody knows what the future holds. In years gone by, New England was predicted to be a bottom of the division team. Won the division that year. The rest is history. I would love Watson with the Dolphins. Maybe, (along with internal competition), it will light a fire under Darnolds ass. 

If we were a competitive team with a franchise QB, having Allen, Watson and the Pats in the same division with us could make for some really entertaining seasons. That being said, lol, we most definitely do not have a franchise QB and hoping for the Phins to land Watson because maybe Sam will rise to the occasion is, um... A scary scenario to me . 

As far as I'm concerned? Watson going to Mia means that the Jets are a long way from being able to win this division and the 2nd place team will likely be a roadblock to a wildcard. 

But as you mentioned, the NFL is very unpredictable and nobody knows for sure what's going to happen. For me That's, Thats why no matter how much this team drives me insane (winning those meaningless games and losing Lawrence drove me through a wall this year) I always end up looking to next season for more punishment 🤷🏼‍♂️

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5 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

If we were a competitive team with a franchise QB, having Allen, Watson and the Pats in the same division with us could make for some really entertaining seasons. That being said, lol, we most definitely do not have a franchise QB and hoping for the Phins to land Watson because maybe Sam will rise to the occasion is, um... A scary scenario to me . 

As far as I'm concerned? Watson going to Mia means that the Jets are a long way from being able to win this division and the 2nd place team will likely be a roadblock to a wildcard. 

But as you mentioned, the NFL is very unpredictable and nobody knows for sure what's going to happen. For me That's, Thats why no matter how much this team drives me insane (winning those meaningless games and losing Lawrence drove me through a wall this year) I always end up looking to next season for more punishment 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

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6 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

If we were a competitive team with a franchise QB, having Allen, Watson and the Pats in the same division with us could make for some really entertaining seasons. That being said, lol, we most definitely do not have a franchise QB and hoping for the Phins to land Watson because maybe Sam will rise to the occasion is, um... A scary scenario to me . 

As far as I'm concerned? Watson going to Mia means that the Jets are a long way from being able to win this division and the 2nd place team will likely be a roadblock to a wildcard. 

But as you mentioned, the NFL is very unpredictable and nobody knows for sure what's going to happen. For me That's, Thats why no matter how much this team drives me insane (winning those meaningless games and losing Lawrence drove me through a wall this year) I always end up looking to next season for more punishment 🤷🏼‍♂️

It's hard looking on the bright side being a Jet's fan.  No more Gase. A HC, that players might want to come here and play for. Bunch of draft picks, and money to spend. Like you said. Nothing is a sure thing in sport. 

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Gotta hope the Jets front office does something tnks offseason.

Especially if Miami gets Watson.

And Bills look to be the favorite to get JJ Watt, too.

Seems like other teams are going all out for it.

 

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On 2/27/2021 at 6:07 PM, rangerous said:

it also says how the team will take on the personality of the head guy.  it just seems the jets were so lackluster under gase and maybe it was because gase was so lack luster.

Can we get a coach with a 19-0 sort of personality? ;-)  

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5 hours ago, New York Mick said:

It’s an absolutely relevant question. How many big name trades have worked out for the teams giving up the picks? 

No it’s not. Because you’re using that argument to suggest this won’t work when none of those instances were a young, elite franchise QB.  No one cares if some pass rushers or aging veterans didn’t work out. 

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On 2/27/2021 at 5:15 AM, Philc1 said:

Watson is not as good as you guys are hyping him up to be.  Adam Gase and Greg Williams last year couldn’t coach their way out of a paper bag that’s why we lost to the dolphins

For the next 5 years here's my list of QBs I'd take over Watson:

Mahomes

 

 

 

maybe Josh Allen

That's it.  

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No it’s not. Because you’re using that argument to suggest this won’t work when none of those instances were a young, elite franchise QB.  No one cares if some pass rushers or aging veterans didn’t work out. 

I can’t find one example of a big trade that brought the team to the super bowl and RBs use to be almost as important as QBs. 
 

Just give me one example in the NFL where a team gave up a bunch of picks for a player and made it to the super bowl. 
 

I don’t want to just feel good because they final got a top 5/10 QB and can win 8 or 9 games but can’t make it to the super bowl because the team around him sucks. How many Super Bowls did he make it to with good and great WRs, Passrushers, RBs etc? Zero. What makes you think he’ll get the Jets to a Super Bowl with a much worse team. 

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1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

I can’t find one example of a big trade that brought the team to the super bowl and RBs use to be almost as important as QBs. 
 

Just give me one example in the NFL where a team gave up a bunch of picks for a player and made it to the super bowl. 
 

I don’t want to just feel good because they final got a top 5/10 QB and can win 8 or 9 games but can’t make it to the super bowl because the team around him sucks. How many Super Bowls did he make it to with good and great WRs, Passrushers, RBs etc? Zero. What makes you think he’ll get the Jets to a Super Bowl with a much worse team. 


Because he’s 25, just entering his prime, and you can’t be a perennial contender without a QB?

its the most important piece and one the Jets haven’t had in over 50 years.  Get the QB and build around him over time.

Your argument is infuriatingly dumb and there’s no point in continuing further.

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42 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:


Because he’s 25, just entering his prime, and you can’t be a perennial contender without a QB?

its the most important piece and one the Jets haven’t had in over 50 years.  Get the QB and build around him over time.

Your argument is infuriatingly dumb and there’s no point in continuing further.

Just like my argument that Gase wasn’t a good HC or Dowell was a good OC or Allen wasn’t the best once in a generation defensive player or McFadden was overrated etc etc etc 

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4 hours ago, New York Mick said:

I can’t find one example of a big trade that brought the team to the super bowl and RBs use to be almost as important as QBs. 
 

Just give me one example in the NFL where a team gave up a bunch of picks for a player and made it to the super bowl. 
 

I don’t want to just feel good because they final got a top 5/10 QB and can win 8 or 9 games but can’t make it to the super bowl because the team around him sucks. How many Super Bowls did he make it to with good and great WRs, Passrushers, RBs etc? Zero. What makes you think he’ll get the Jets to a Super Bowl with a much worse team. 

2 teams a year make the super bowl. Big trades rarely happen in the nfl.

when was the last time a team signed a 42 year old qb and won a super bowl before last season?

Deshaun Watson is just starting his prime. If the Jets can spread the picks out over 3 years, there’s no reason why they won’t be able to use their remaining picks and cap space to surround him w talent. 

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10 hours ago, New York Mick said:

There’s been more big nfl trades that didn’t workout then just RBs. 

what about Khalil Mack? to early to tell on the raiders draft picks but regardless  Mack has been to the pro bowl for all 3 years in Chicago. they already won on there end. 

Montana to KC worked for both. 

i would even argue that Eric Dickson worked out for Indy. he was a beast for 2 1/2 years until he got hurt. RBs have a short shelf life. 

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1 hour ago, doitny said:

what about Khalil Mack? to early to tell on the raiders draft picks but regardless  Mack has been to the pro bowl for all 3 years in Chicago. they already won on there end. 

Montana to KC worked for both. 

i would even argue that Eric Dickson worked out for Indy. he was a beast for 2 1/2 years until he got hurt. RBs have a short shelf life. 

They gave up a 1st rd pick(18th) for Montana but before they got him they were in the playoffs for 3 years straight..

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2 hours ago, Savage69 said:

They gave up a 1st rd pick(18th) for Montana but before they got him they were in the playoffs for 3 years straight..

true. and even though he was brought there to win a SB i wouldn't say they got hurt in the deal. brought them to the AFCCG for the first time since they won the SB in 69. havent been there until Mahomes did it a year ago. even though the pick turned out to be Dana Stubblefield it wasnt a bad trade.

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9 hours ago, adb280z said:

For the next 5 years here's my list of QBs I'd take over Watson:

Mahomes

 

 

 

maybe Josh Allen

That's it.  

😆

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15 hours ago, Savage69 said:

???? Sperm the Jets got 2 1st picks 13 and 27(and no 2nd's) we had a total of 4 1st's that year but just 2 were from the Buc's..

Keyshawn AND Gruden

I didn't say they gave all those picks to the Jets. Most of them went to Oakland.

But they did give up 4 1sts, 2 2nds, and a new veteran contract to Keyshawn. They also gave up $8MM in cash for Gruden but it was irrelevant to team flexibility since coaches aren't on the salary cap. 

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On 2/28/2021 at 3:26 AM, doitny said:

his numbers were.

but if the team record is important to you then we better not sign any FA from losing teams cause there not worth it in your opinion? right? thats why you and others keep bringing up that ONE season at 4-12. 

i guess Joe Thuney is off the list. NE won 6 games. not very productive. 

does Allen Robinson make the cut? Chicago won only 8 games.

 

 

If you judge Watson on his team record there isn't a single player on the Jets who should be on the team next year.  Every player who is contracted by the jets was part of a 2 and 14 team.  

Houston was a dumpster fire last year and Watson performed at a very high level in spite of it.  If you believe the Jets have a very good coaching staff that's stable along with a good front office that's stable Watson is likely to thrive here.  

The but Houston went 4 and 12 last year is absurd.  Houston front office was a dumpster fire.  They fired O'Brien who was their HC and GM on October 5th last year.  The reason Watson wants out is he knows they are a dysfunctional organization that can't win in spite of him not because of him.  The reality is Houston is desperate to hang onto him.  

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The Texans can get Fields or Wilson on a 5 year rookie contract.  That is a lot.  
The second pick is worth 3 in the 20s.

The two questions for the Texans is what objectively they think the pick is worth, and what do they need from a PR perspective to counter losing Watson.  
I don’t think the number 2 is close to being worth what Watson is, who btw was picked 12. But it is worth 2-3 firsts, so if someone says that another player was traded for multiple firsts, you need to take that into account. 

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Keyshawn AND Gruden

I didn't say they gave all those picks to the Jets. Most of them went to Oakland.

But they did give up 4 1sts, 2 2nds, and a new veteran contract to Keyshawn. They also gave up $8MM in cash for Gruden but it was irrelevant to team flexibility since coaches aren't on the salary cap. 

Gruden ended up kicking KJ off the team he had 2 1,000 plus seasons jets got the better of that deal..B)

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9 hours ago, doitny said:

what about Khalil Mack? to early to tell on the raiders draft picks but regardless  Mack has been to the pro bowl for all 3 years in Chicago. they already won on there end. 

Montana to KC worked for both. 

i would even argue that Eric Dickson worked out for Indy. he was a beast for 2 1/2 years until he got hurt. RBs have a short shelf life. 

What exactly did they win?

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11 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Gruden ended up kicking KJ off the team he had 2 1,000 plus seasons jets got the better of that deal..B)

Gruden didn't kick Keyshawn off the team until after he'd won a SB with him as the team's (by far) top-targeted receiver. 

Original point still stands: Tampa surrendered 4 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks and a high-end contract for the player acquisition, and because of those trades they won a Super Bowl. Easy to claim they'd have won it anyway when they didn't.

Tampa's disastrous Maccagnan-like drafting outside of those traded picks is why they faded so fast. Gruden couldn't go 2-for-35 in the 4 drafts from 2002-2005 and still maintain a good team, and even if he'd hit on 4 of those 6 traded-away picks it still wouldn't have been enough. 

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3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Keyshawn AND Gruden

I didn't say they gave all those picks to the Jets. Most of them went to Oakland.

But they did give up 4 1sts, 2 2nds, and a new veteran contract to Keyshawn. They also gave up $8MM in cash for Gruden but it was irrelevant to team flexibility since coaches aren't on the salary cap. 

You're missing a lot of context of how the Bucs actually built that SB team.  In 1995 they made some amazing moves that allowed them to make draft moves and get both Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks. 

In that draft they traded 1 first rounder and 1 third rounder to Philadelphia for 1 st and 2 seconds.  Moving to 12 from 7 they still got Sapp.  Near the end of round 1 Brooks was still on the board and they sent 2 of their 3 second rounders to Dallas for their 1st round pick and got Brooks.  They used their other 2nd rounder on a good safety who was later traded to the Chiefs. 

The Bucs had a great D.  The next move they made besides getting Gruden was picking up Brad Johnson in FA.  

The Bucs built their SB D with great draft moves.  They got their QB to run Gruden's O in FA.   The Keyshawn trade wasn't about a bottom feeding team giving up picks for a savior like we are.  It was about adding a piece for a championship run after the team was brilliantly built through the draft and FA.  

The won the SB and shot their load.  This SB team was built through the draft and adding a key FA.

It's a quibble but the idea that TB built their SB under Gruden by trading away an enormous amount of draft capital is not the whole story. They used draft capital to draft two HOF defenders that were the anchor to their SB team.

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3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

You're missing a lot of context of how the Bucs actually built that SB team.  In 1995 they made some amazing moves that allowed them to make draft moves and get both Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks. 

In that draft they traded 1 first rounder and 1 third rounder to Philadelphia for 1 st and 2 seconds.  Moving to 12 from 7 they still got Sapp.  Near the end of round 1 Brooks was still on the board and they sent 2 of their 3 second rounders to Dallas for their 1st round pick and got Brooks.  They used their other 2nd rounder on a good safety who was later traded to the Chiefs. 

The Bucs had a great D.  The next move they made besides getting Gruden was picking up Brad Johnson in FA.  

The Bucs built their SB D with great draft moves.  They got their QB to run Gruden's O in FA.   The Keyshawn trade wasn't about a bottom feeding team giving up picks for a savior like we are.  It was about adding a piece for a championship run after the team was brilliantly built through the draft and FA.  

The won the SB and shot their load.  This SB team was built through the draft and adding a key FA.

It's a quibble but the idea that TB built their SB under Gruden by trading away an enormous amount of draft capital is not the whole story. They used draft capital to draft two HOF defenders that were the anchor to their SB team.

The point still holds, that there's more than one way of building a SB winner than drafting 4 first rounders in 2 years. And further, the point that the picks aren't always more valuable. Eventually they have to turn into players, and many (if not most) end up being huge disappointments. As often as not, by accumulating picks you end up with the pre-Mayfield Browns. 

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The point still holds, that there's more than one way of building a SB winner than drafting 4 first rounders in 2 years. And further, the point that the picks aren't always more valuable. Eventually they have to turn into players, and many (if not most) end up being huge disappointments. As often as not, by accumulating picks you end up with the pre-Mayfield Browns. 

No question but TB doesn't sniff a SB without drafting Sap and Brooks before trading picks for Gruden.   The Jets are basically rebuilding from scratch.  How about we have a couple of great drafts and actually pick a couple of HOF players to anchor a SB team before giving away draft capital.

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3 hours ago, Biggs said:

If you judge Watson on his team record there isn't a single player on the Jets who should be on the team next year.  Every player who is contracted by the jets was part of a 2 and 14 team.  

Houston was a dumpster fire last year and Watson performed at a very high level in spite of it.  If you believe the Jets have a very good coaching staff that's stable along with a good front office that's stable Watson is likely to thrive here.  

The but Houston went 4 and 12 last year is absurd.  Houston front office was a dumpster fire.  They fired O'Brien who was their HC and GM on October 5th last year.  The reason Watson wants out is he knows they are a dysfunctional organization that can't win in spite of him not because of him.  The reality is Houston is desperate to hang onto him.  

i totally agree. i laugh everytime someone here brings up that 4-12 record.

 

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1 hour ago, peebag said:

What exactly did they win?

Mack played great. he lived up to the trade. and thats all you can ask for. trades do not have to end in Super Bowls to be successful. 

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4 hours ago, Biggs said:

No question but TB doesn't sniff a SB without drafting Sap and Brooks before trading picks for Gruden.   The Jets are basically rebuilding from scratch.  How about we have a couple of great drafts and actually pick a couple of HOF players to anchor a SB team before giving away draft capital.

I'm not saying it is the same, but it's not equal in the other direction either, because I'd argue trading for a top 5 QB >>>>>> trading for Keyshawn Johnson

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10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm not saying it is the same, but it's not equal in the other direction either, because I'd argue trading for a top 5 QB >>>>>> trading for Keyshawn Johnson

It's not about the QB or the WR it was about the last piece on an already constructed SB quality team when your draft picks aren't likely to be good enough to make the team.  

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4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

It's not about the QB or the WR it was about the last piece on an already constructed SB quality team when your draft picks aren't likely to be good enough to make the team.  

I don't think the picks wouldn't have been good enough to make the team. Just because they won the SB in the absence of those picks doesn't mean they wouldn't have been a better team that year. You can't win a SB-plus (no style points for winning it with an even better team than you had) but it doesn't mean they wouldn't have been more useful, too. Just that the addition of a probowl WR and better HC was deemed more important.

Anyway it wasn't a suggestion that this is a cookie cutter to do or to not do. Just that there is precedent to teams trading away multiple 1st rounders and more and riding that to a SB victory. You're never going to find a total apples-to-apples comparison and will always be able to re-move the goalposts to show why this or that situation is different. All situations are always different. 

I think there are some serious holes and needed upgrades on the team. I don't think it's as bad as many believe, though. There was a perfect storm combo of atrocious QB play, several missed-games with his targets that made it even worse, plus bad coaching, plus 4 newcomers on the OL trying to mesh together in an abbreviated offseason. And that's just on the offense's side of the ball. 

A star QB replacing a terrible QB, plus some more help at the WR position (in ability, in experience [Mims], and in health overall), plus improvements in coaching / scheming / gameplanning... I don't think this roster is desperately in need of like 20 starters to become a playoff team. 

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