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Nightmare scenario: What does JD do in the draft and free agency if Deshaun Watson ends up in Miami?


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There was a time when we had Marino and Kelly in our division. Talk about a nightmare. In my opinion, should that happen, you create a balanced football team. Keep SD, trade back and get as much smart

If the Jets make a fair offer for Watson and he ends up in Miami, so be it. But if we're looking for a template to model, it's not Miami's, it's Buffalo's.  Buffalo did a great job evaluating All

Does that mean we are waiting for them both to retire before we try to compete? 

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13 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The point still holds, that there's more than one way of building a SB winner than drafting 4 first rounders in 2 years. And further, the point that the picks aren't always more valuable. Eventually they have to turn into players, and many (if not most) end up being huge disappointments. As often as not, by accumulating picks you end up with the pre-Mayfield Browns. 

I'll keep up with my normal rebuttal for the big trade the farm for Watson people.

- Draft picks are overrated and many bust, trade for the sure thing.

- But the Jets are so terrible right now we are as bad if not worse than the Houston team that won 4 games.

- No worries we can add talent in the draft.

wtf?

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On 2/28/2021 at 9:53 PM, New York Mick said:

Just like my argument that Gase wasn’t a good HC or Dowell was a good OC or Allen wasn’t the best once in a generation defensive player or McFadden was overrated etc etc etc 

not relevant to the conversation.  Basically, every one of your comparisons has been an irrelevant comparison.  Let's have one where a team traded for a 25 year old top 5 QB just entering his prime?  All your other comparisons are 100% irrelevant. 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

I'll keep up with my normal rebuttal for the big trade the farm for Watson people.

- Draft picks are overrated and many bust, trade for the sure thing.

- But the Jets are so terrible right now we are as bad if not worse than the Houston team that won 4 games.

- No worries we can add talent in the draft.

wtf?

The Jets are not as bad or worse than 2020 Houston, though. Houston had Watson, two good WRs (one of whom missed the last 5 games), Watt, and Tunsil. I wouldn't trade QW for Watt, nor Becton for Tunsil; Watson is the one we're talking about; so really it's just the two outside WRs who've always benefitted from the good fortune of playing with upper-level productive QBs themselves. 

I don't think we're just a few players away from being a realistic playoff team, but we're not a dozen players away either. Even most playoff teams have multiple weaker players (like 4/5 of KC's offensive line, which became 5/5 for the super bowl).  

In terms of absolute need (not just want) if the Jets did have Watson?

  • One starting WR. It may be Juju because the tag is so low it's so far looking like the other 3 all stick with their 2020 teams. We'll know in a week. 
  • One iOL FA. Linsley or either of the two big-name guards. But there are others available. [Another can be a draft pick competing with last year's plus incumbent veterans, and/or another lower-cost FA. My guess from how JD's gone about things is he wants to leave room for one of his OL picks to be a low-cost veteran or mid/late round draftee, and that doesn't happen if he goes all-in on a FA or high pick 5-across. I'd like to upgrade from Fant, too, but that's a want not an immediate need; if they could do a swap of him for Daryl Williams it would add more guarantees but in dollars wouldn't cost more & I wouldn't get angry at Douglas over it.]
  • One RB from round 3 or later and/or a lower-cost FA. I think they're fine with rotating fresh legs at the position rather than one big-name back.
  • TE I'd like to swap a different veteran to replace Griffin. Maybe it's desire talking, but I think Herndon will do much better than last year if he's the starter again.

So in terms of true need, on offense that's what, 3-4 starters so far? (WR, iOL, RB and/or TE). The first two are significant, no doubt, but I think he's going to try adding those pieces in FA whether we have those 1st round picks or not. Unless he's locked into Smith at #2 he's not heading into the draft with the hole he has now at the position. If they can add a serious veteran WR and iOL, and the rest are merely complementary-sounding names, I think this can still be a high scoring offense. Despite some fans' desires to devote this whole draft to the offense, the D needs much more help than the offense in terms of individual position starters.

  • I'd see what it would cost to re-sign Hewitt & think he could play OLB when Mosely returns. Hopefully this isn't another that should've been extended before. I'm not going to cry over it if we lose him, though; he was fine but is of course very replaceable. 
  • Drop H.Anderson. Let Jenkins go if someone else is offering him starter money, otherwise I think he's fine depth. 
  • They definitely need two edge/ends and another OLB, but there should be plenty available in FA this year. Despite the ACL, I think they'll look at Dupree; he was already walking with a brace in mid-January (about 5-6 weeks after tearing it). Reddick is coming off a monster season for Arizona & they just gave big money to Watt, and can't overextend themselves with Hopkins's cap number about to skyrocket next year. Okwara is another I think they'll look at. Arizona's Golden is also due to become a UFA. They may take a shot on Solomon Thomas. Olivier Vernon is older but he's still very solid. Leonard Floyd finally had a double-digit sack season but LA blitzed him like crazy so I'd worry that absent doing so he'd be just-ok again. Then of course there are other bigger names like Barrett & Judon but they sound likely to stay where they are. 
  • I think they've got some good pieces in the secondary. I wouldn't turn away a stud corner, and the team has to spend on someone in FA, but I don't think Davis reached his peak as a rookie. Maye's already been tagged. I think Guidry could be a reg NB if they can't re-sign Poole. Hall looked good for a rookie who missed the first half of his first season after an offseason of no minicamp & very limited full-team camp before he went on IR. Decent chance they bring in Sherman until they feel more confident in one of the younger starters.

That's another 4 (call it 5 with Hewitt). But again, no matter what they're bringing in these players in FA anyway; they're not heading into the draft holes to fill no matter how many 1st round picks the team has. 

And even though I'm willing to fork over more than you are, it's not like they won't have any draft picks left for 2 more years. They'll still have most of them, plus an extra 2 (or whatever Darnold's worth) and an extra 3 this year. 

Anyway the above is all without even drafting anybody, and the Jets will still draft several players per year. I'm not of the opinion that it's hopeless if we don't make such a trade - far, far from it - but if it's not anything like the insanity that's been leaked through Houston's beat writer, I'm still very much in favor of it. And your punishment is I expect you to read all this lol. There will be a test on Friday.

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5 hours ago, Dcat said:

not relevant to the conversation.  Basically, every one of your comparisons has been an irrelevant comparison.  Let's have one where a team traded for a 25 year old top 5 QB just entering his prime?  All your other comparisons are 100% irrelevant. 

It’s relevant that I was right and everyone was so sure that I had no idea what I was talking about. 

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5 hours ago, Dcat said:

not relevant to the conversation.  Basically, every one of your comparisons has been an irrelevant comparison.  Let's have one where a team traded for a 25 year old top 5 QB just entering his prime?  All your other comparisons are 100% irrelevant. 

The closest situation to this I can recall is cutler from Denver to bears. Didn’t work out well at all.

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1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

It’s relevant that I was right and everyone was so sure that I had no idea what I was talking about. 

Completely different situations due to importance of position.  There is no comparison.  Compare to any other position trades you want, but they are not relevant to this.

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52 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

The closest situation to this I can recall is cutler from Denver to bears. Didn’t work out well at all.

Cutler was not a top 5 QB in the NFL.

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Cutler was not a top 5 QB in the NFL.
I don't remember the parameters that trade.. but pretty sure it was FAR less that the inane concepts being bandied about for Watson.


Cutler was indeed thought of as a top tier QB that just needed a change of scenery.

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20 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Cutler was not a top 5 QB in the NFL.

Im not sure Watson is either.

Both were pro bowl QB's in the prime of their career. Both were disgruntled and wanted out.

Bears gave up a fraction of what is being thrown around as some insane compensation for Watson.

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6 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Im not sure Watson is either.

Both were pro bowl QB's in the prime of their career. Both were disgruntled and wanted out.

Bears gave up a fraction of what is being thrown around as some insane compensation for Watson.

Cutler and Watson have never been anything similar.  apples and oranges.  You are trying so hard to squeeze a square peg in a round hole with all this.  It's actually funny.  This is basically an unprecedented situation (extraordinarily rare) yet ppl here are trying to create as many false analogies as they can.  

I am thankful that JD is in charge and not the baboon-brains on this site.  

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24 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Cutler and Watson have never been anything similar.  apples and oranges.  You are trying so hard to squeeze a square peg in a round hole with all this.  It's actually funny.  This is basically an unprecedented situation (extraordinarily rare) yet ppl here are trying to create as many false analogies as they can.  

I am thankful that JD is in charge and not the baboon-brains on this site.  

Please explain who is the apple and who is the orange? What part of what I said is incorrect? I said both were pro bowl QB's at the prime of their career who were disgruntled. Rather than accusing me of squeezing things, and telling me how funny it is, why don't you correct where I am wrong?

Also, so we are clear, if someone doesnt agree with you, they are a baboon-brain? So if JD doesnt agree with you and holds the line at less comp then you think Watson is worth, he is also a baboon-brain?

Get a grip man, this is a message board for sharing opinions, calling people a baboon-brain for not agreeing is a bit much....

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30 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Please explain who is the apple and who is the orange? What part of what I said is incorrect? I said both were pro bowl QB's at the prime of their career who were disgruntled. Rather than accusing me of squeezing things, and telling me how funny it is, why don't you correct where I am wrong?

Also, so we are clear, if someone doesnt agree with you, they are a baboon-brain? So if JD doesnt agree with you and holds the line at less comp then you think Watson is worth, he is also a baboon-brain?

Get a grip man, this is a message board for sharing opinions, calling people a baboon-brain for not agreeing is a bit much....

Watson is a top 5 QB.  Cutler was garbage from day 1.  /end of comparison.  And if you have to ask why Watson/Cutler it is a bubble-brain attempt at a comparison, then so be it. 

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Just now, Dcat said:

Watson is a top 5 QB.  Cutler was garbage from day 1.  /end of comparison.  And if you have to ask why Watson/Cutler it is a bubble-brain attempt at a comparison, then so be it. 

ok, good convo man, you convinced me with that one. Thanks....

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1 minute ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

ok, good convo man, you convinced me with that one. Thanks....

Not trying to convince you of anything.  You believe what ever you want to.  If you think comparing Cutler's career in year 4 to Watson is logical, then you go with it.  LOL

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Just now, Dcat said:

Not trying to convince you of anything.  You believe what ever you want to.  If you think comparing Cutler's career in year 4 to Watson is logical, then you go with it.  LOL

Then why reply to me at all? Why not just chalk me up to being a baboon-brain and move on? Do you like laughing at people who you think are mentally inferior to you? Help me with this one brah.

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47 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Im not sure Watson is either.

Both were pro bowl QB's in the prime of their career. Both were disgruntled and wanted out.

Bears gave up a fraction of what is being thrown around as some insane compensation for Watson.

Cutler had a pro bowl season the year before he was traded, one.  Watson has been to the pro bowl 3 consecutive years.  He just lead the league in Yards per attempts, yards per catch, yards and had 33 TD's and 7 INT's.  Watson is not a 1 year wonder.  Cutler literally was a 1 year wonder. 

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Watson is a top 5 QB.  Cutler was garbage from day 1.  /end of comparison.  And if you have to ask why Watson/Cutler it is a bubble-brain attempt at a comparison, then so be it. 
Please look at Cutlers third year stats a d come back when you are better informed. 2 pro bowl QBs in their prime.

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1 minute ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Then why reply to me at all? Why not just chalk me up to being a baboon-brain and move on? Do you like laughing at people who you think are mentally inferior to you? Help me with this one brah.

Not laughing at you.  The point is this: Watson and Cutler are incomparable and the comparison proves nothing.  Thus the bubble-headed comment and yes, the comparison is stupid.  Yet a couple of people are relying on it as a piece of evidence that supports their point.   LOL.

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Just now, Biggs said:

Cutler had a pro bowl season the year before he was traded, one.  Watson has been to the pro bowl 3 consecutive years.  He just lead the league in Yards per attempts, yards per catch, yards and had 33 TD's and 7 INT's.  Watson is not a 1 year wonder.  Cutler literally was a 1 year wonder. 

The two are worlds apart.  Feeble argument for those who do not want Watson here.  

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Cutler had a pro bowl season the year before he was traded, one.  Watson has been to the pro bowl 3 consecutive years.  He just lead the league in Yards per attempts, yards per catch, yards and had 33 TD's and 7 INT's.  Watson is not a 1 year wonder.  Cutler literally was a 1 year wonder. 
What is watson's playoff record ?

What was his record last year ?

How much will it take to get him ?


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1 minute ago, Dunnie said:

Please look at Cutlers third year stats a d come back when you are better informed. 2 pro bowl QBs in their prime.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

LOL... one good year when the whole league knew how much he sucked.  Never mind his alienating and locker-room disrupting personality, which is nothing like Watson.  You might want to try a different line of reasoning.

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2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

The two are worlds apart.  Feeble argument for those who do not want Watson here.  

can we get something clear? I want Watson here. I would love to have Watson. My argument is there is a limit within reason that you should pay for him. I also think Fields will end up being every bit as good if not better as an East Coast QB. So my argument is not anti-watson, its price. Carry on though with your laughing at people who don't agree with you, I don't want to get in your way.

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LOL... one good year when the whole league knew how much he sucked.  Never mind his alienating and locker-room disrupting personality, which is nothing like Watson.  You might want to try a different line of reasoning.
Cant mention cutlers personality without a calling attention to Watson's crybaby antics.

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3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

LOL... one good year when the whole league knew how much he sucked.  Never mind his alienating and locker-room disrupting personality, which is nothing like Watson.  You might want to try a different line of reasoning.

The whole league knew how much he sucked? Wow, this is some serious revisionist history here. Most people killed the Broncos for this, absolutely killed him. There were at least 5 teams who were in on Cutler with huge offers. The reason the Bears got him is they had Orton to offer. And I will give you that Watson is a better QB than Cutler was at the same time, but to say Cutler is garbage, was from day 1, and the whole league knew he was garbage is flat out incorrect and makes you look like you have an agenda here rather than trying to have intelligent discussion.

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2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

can we get something clear? I want Watson here. I would love to have Watson. My argument is there is a limit within reason that you should pay for him. I also think Fields will end up being every bit as good if not better as an East Coast QB. So my argument is not anti-watson, its price. Carry on though with your laughing at people who don't agree with you, I don't want to get in your way.

I have not even spoken about what kind of compensation I'd be willing to give.  Of course there are limits and I trust JD to set appropriate parameters.  If Houston wants too much, then send him to Miami.  We are not arguing over that issue.  We are arguing over whether Cutler is a reasonable comparison to Watson and my opinion is that he is not.  

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2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

The whole league knew how much he sucked? Wow, this is some serious revisionist history here. Most people killed the Broncos for this, absolutely killed him. There were at least 5 teams who were in on Cutler with huge offers. The reason the Bears got him is they had Orton to offer. And I will give you that Watson is a better QB than Cutler was at the same time, but to say Cutler is garbage, was from day 1, and the whole league knew he was garbage is flat out incorrect and makes you look like you have an agenda here rather than trying to have intelligent discussion.

Cutler was regarded as hot garbage very early on but many throughout the league.  He was despised on his opwn teams too..  He was a cancer in the locker room..   He wasn't close to Watson in terms of performance over those first three-4 years as well.  

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3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I have not even spoken about what kind of compensation I'd be willing to give.  Of course there are limits and I trust JD to set appropriate parameters.  If Houston wants too much, then send him to Miami.  We are not arguing over that issue.  We are arguing over whether Cutler is a reasonable comparison to Watson and my opinion is that he is not.  

well, your argument was that people don't want Watson here so they are making attempts to bash him, which is not true at all

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2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Cutler was regarded as hot garbage very early on but many throughout the league.  He was despised on his opwn teams too..  He was a cancer in the locker room..   He wasn't close to Watson in terms of performance over those first three-4 years as well.  

So now its many throughout the league, while before it was everyone knew he was trash from day 1? Which is it?

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2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

well, your argument was that people don't want Watson here so they are making attempts to bash him, which is not true at all

never said that.  People are using the really dumb Cutler false-analogy as precedent because there are no other situations that even come close..  As I said, it is a  feeble argument.

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3 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

So now its many throughout the league, while before it was everyone knew he was trash from day 1? Which is it?

Oh now you are playing the "let's read everything 100% literally" card?  I'll remember you do that the next time you post and I will be sure not to use any hyperbole.  No, not 100% of the league (literally) knew that Cutler was inconsistent and unreliable as well as being a locker room cancer.  Maybe it was 95% or 90% or even 80%.  The point is that he was inconsistent and not very good on the field and, horrible as a teammate and it was well known around the league when he got moved.

If people insist on using the Cutler comparison, I'll just continue shaking my head at the bubble-brained logic.

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4 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Oh now you are playing the "let's read everything 100% literally" card?  I'll remember you do that the next time you post and I will be sure not to use any hyperbole.  No, not 100% of the league (literally) knew that Cutler was inconsistent and unreliable as well as being a locker room cancer.  Maybe it was 95% or 90% or even 80%.  The point is that he was inconsistent and not very good on the field and, horrible as a teammate and it was well known around the league when he got moved.

If people insist on using the Cutler comparison, I'll just continue shaking my head at the bubble-brained logic.

So to be clear, I said the closest example I could come up with was Cutler. I never said it was an exact comparison. I will say again, they are both pro-bowl QB's who were big prospects coming out of the draft who were disgruntled. If you want to read into anymore than I said, have had it, but that was what I said which you then called me a baboon-brain....

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15 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

So to be clear, I said the closest example I could come up with was Cutler. I never said it was an exact comparison. I will say again, they are both pro-bowl QB's who were big prospects coming out of the draft who were disgruntled. If you want to read into anymore than I said, have had it, but that was what I said which you then called me a baboon-brain....

Cutler was garbage and "many" (sorry, exact "literal" number unknown) thought he was hot garbage, especially on his own teams.   Weakest reason anyone ever put out on the board as to why not to trade for Watson.  So whoever first made the comparison.... (no idea who) puh...leeeeze.

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Just now, Dcat said:

Cutler was garbage and "many" (sorry, exact "literal" number unknown) thought he was hot garbage, especially on his own teams.   Weakest reason anyone ever put out on the board as to why not to trade for Watson.  So whoever first made the comparison.... (no idea who) puh...leeeeze.

Huh, your all over the place man. Can you explain to me how me saying the closest example was Cutler being a reason to NOT trade for WATSON? You are quite sensitive over this topic man, you're really reaching on this one bud. 

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