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Starting to Warm up to keeping Sam, Trading to 4 and taking Pitts (plus other draft assets)


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6 hours ago, isired said:
12 hours ago, Warfish said:
I think there is a very good chance JD/Saleh go this route (retain Sam, trade down, and I'll add.....draft Defense as much or more than Offense).
I also think expecting the worst QB of the past three years to suddenly be a legit franchise QB, is very, very unlikely.
Basically means 2021, like all the years before it, is just a kick the can wasted season. 
And we'll be back here again in 2022 talking about which QB to draft, except we won't be picking #2, we'll more likely be #12 or #14 or the like.

In today's NFL you don't finish near the top half of the league with the worst QB in the league. If Sam really is that bad, they'll be picking in the top 5 again. And with the ammo they have and the fact that 4 or 5 QB-needy teams will have drafted a round 1 QB this year, they should be able to move up and grab someone- and hopefully they'll be able to put him in a better position after 2021 draft + FA.

Sounds like you got it all figured out.  

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At first glance when I saw this on Kipers Mock, I was like, HELL NO!.   Then I started to think about it a bit.  Give Sam a weapon like Pitts plus Mims with a season under his belt.  Plus the addition

There have been two TE's drafted top 10 in the last decade, and both were by the Lions. No TE has ever been drafted top 5. This seems unlikely.

You simply do not have to commit to Darnold long term this year.  Most people on here feel he is totally shot but you would know for sure next year if the gase factor is real or not. You can

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8 hours ago, nycdan said:

It's so weird to see descriptions of a guy who skipped this whole year making him out to be Anthony Munoz.  Not saying he won't be, but it really is a weird year.

This thing called Covid19 happened 

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There's only ONE opportunity to get Deshaun Watson and that is NOW. If JD wants DW he needs to throw his resources at it now.

But, if he's not interested in acquiring Deshaun, he should by all means trade down out of 2. Fields sucks, but it's my belief some team will want Fields or Wilson at 2. There's no major rush to take a collegiate QB right now. I see no earthly reason why they can't wait, see what we have in Sammy, and gather a lot more picks. JD has an excellent opportunity right now to fix the rest of the team. That's what I think he should do while giving Sammy the fair opportunity he's always deserved.....

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Holding onto Darnold and trading down from #2 is a very real possibility, however unpopular it may be here. Unfortunately for us on a Jets message board at the end of February, it probably won't be until April when we start to find out anything. The QBs pro days run right up to the end of March, and they're going to make their complete evaluations of all of them, with the interviews being a critical component. I think the only way something happens at QB before that is if JD gets his deal for Watson. Barring that, it'll be basically between the QBs in the draft vs. their current evaluation of Sam. 

One potential clue will be if and how they address the QB position in free agency. If they bring in a potential starter, that could mean they're leaning towards keeping Darnold. They'll need another capable starter on the roster if that's what they decide to do. 

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On 2/26/2021 at 2:47 PM, Joe W. Namath said:

Joe D and Robert Saleh have their reputations at stake.  They have families to feed.  They arent banking their careers on Darnold.  Wake up people!  Give your Darnold pajamas to the Goodwill.  Take the Darnold bobblehead off your nightstand and place it in the trash receptacle.  There is 0 scenario where darnold returns.

 

 

This is False!

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1 hour ago, slats said:

I think the only way something happens at QB before that is if JD gets his deal for Watson.

March 17th FA begins. My hope is that JD makes the bold move for Watson prior to FA which will help us in landing top flight offensive talent.

That said, there is no way in hell that Texans move on Watson prior to evaluating the 2 QBs in Wilson (3/26) and Fields (3/30). We get who we can in FA, get our draft board ready, grease the trade down rails by talking with team GMs and be prepared for a crazy draft with Watson being dangled on day 1. How JD & Jets comes out of this draft at QB will be the top story.
 

wayward pines GIF

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18 hours ago, JazzyJet said:

Been thinking about this option (drafting Pitts in the top 4), and I've decided that I'm squarely in favor of taking Chase, or Smith instead of Pitts if we trade down - unless it's around pick 8 or so. Been thinking that Pat Freiermuth at the top of Round 2 makes a lot more sense. If Sewell somehow were to slip to 4-6 range that'd be ok too.

Roll with Sam again with WR Chase, WR Smith-Schuster, WR Mims and TE Freiermuth, and maybe a RB Javonte Williams or Carter in the 3rd - draft the best OT/OG available at 23 + OG Thuney. Offense fixed. Sounds good to me.

Can't argue with any of your moves.  Nicely done. 

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I think 4 is a little high to be drafting Pitts, let alone any "playmaker" in a draft full of them. You can move down to 8 and come away with an elite player who is likely just as good as who you would get at 4... the top 10 is weird this year in that outside of Lawrence, there's no 2nd or 3rd guy who is clearly better than the 9th or 10th guy. I think there's a drop off after 10, but otherwise a lot of parity among the players in the top 10. 

Sure- if you move down to 8 there's a chance Pitts is gone. But you still have the receivers and offensive linemen. 

The best way I've rationalized it: if you can get down to 6 or later and Pitts is there, that's a very comfortable spot. TJ Hockenson went 8. Eric Ebron went 10. Vernon Davis 6. Kellen Winslow 6. I think Pitts is on par with if not superior to those guys as prospects. 

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9 minutes ago, football guy said:

I think 4 is a little high to be drafting Pitts, let alone any "playmaker" in a draft full of them. You can move down to 8 and come away with an elite player who is likely just as good as who you would get at 4... the top 10 is weird this year in that outside of Lawrence, there's no 2nd or 3rd guy who is clearly better than the 9th or 10th guy. I think there's a drop off after 10, but otherwise a lot of parity among the players in the top 10. 

Sure- if you move down to 8 there's a chance Pitts is gone. But you still have the receivers and offensive linemen. 

The best way I've rationalized it: if you can get down to 6 or later and Pitts is there, that's a very comfortable spot. TJ Hockenson went 8. Eric Ebron went 10. Vernon Davis 6. Kellen Winslow 6. I think Pitts is on par with if not superior to those guys as prospects. 

If the trade down is to 4, I think the move would be Ja’Marr Chase, as long as Miami doesn’t take him.  However, I reaaaally like Pitts and wouldn’t mind taking him, even if it’s a little high for a TE.  I think he’s a special type of talent.

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24 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

If the trade down is to 4, I think the move would be Ja’Marr Chase, as long as Miami doesn’t take him.  However, I reaaaally like Pitts and wouldn’t mind taking him, even if it’s a little high for a TE.  I think he’s a special type of talent.

If we’re going to the trade down route and rolling with Sam...I’d love it if we:

• trade down 4

• miami takes Chase

• we trade down from 4 and stay in top 10

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38 minutes ago, football guy said:

I think 4 is a little high to be drafting Pitts, let alone any "playmaker" in a draft full of them. You can move down to 8 and come away with an elite player who is likely just as good as who you would get at 4... the top 10 is weird this year in that outside of Lawrence, there's no 2nd or 3rd guy who is clearly better than the 9th or 10th guy. I think there's a drop off after 10, but otherwise a lot of parity among the players in the top 10. 

Sure- if you move down to 8 there's a chance Pitts is gone. But you still have the receivers and offensive linemen. 

The best way I've rationalized it: if you can get down to 6 or later and Pitts is there, that's a very comfortable spot. TJ Hockenson went 8. Eric Ebron went 10. Vernon Davis 6. Kellen Winslow 6. I think Pitts is on par with if not superior to those guys as prospects. 

If Joe Douglas opts to not find a long term solution at QB this offseason, I think his trade down goal would need to include -at the very least- one first round pick in 2022. That would probably require moving down further than #4. 

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43 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

If the trade down is to 4, I think the move would be Ja’Marr Chase, as long as Miami doesn’t take him.  However, I reaaaally like Pitts and wouldn’t mind taking him, even if it’s a little high for a TE.  I think he’s a special type of talent.

It's a lot high for a TE. Every now & then there's a TE that'll break the mold and show he's worth a FQB pick. Last one to go that high was Vernon Davis in 2006, and even then it was pick #6, and Winslow II in the same slot two years before that. 

There's really not a lot of history of showing that getting an elite TE requires anywhere near this level draft pick. Most of the best TEs in the game from the past decade (give or take) were drafted in rounds 3-6. Gonzalez is the most accomplished ever, and was a tremendous talent, and even he wasn't a top 10 pick (let alone top 5), plus that was a draft with zero high-end QB prospects, let alone 4 of them.

I don't see how that happens when the time actually comes, no matter how enamored people are with him in Feb (and now early March). I know Detroit took Hockenson a couple drafts ago, but if anything it shows how even a TE pick that really pans out early-on still isn't enough to help a team that naturally picks that high. Awful hard to hang onto that pick, instead of moving down some, when offers are coming in from teams that want to move up for a QB, LT, and/or a WR. 

Then again this April there are a lot of players who will get drafted a good amount higher or lower than they'd have gone if there was a typical scouting combine in Feb. So maybe you're right and he goes that high. IMO it'd be a huge shock, though. 

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27 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's a lot high for a TE. Every now & then there's a TE that'll break the mold and show he's worth a FQB pick. Last one to go that high was Vernon Davis in 2006, and even then it was pick #6, and Winslow II in the same slot two years before that. 

There's really not a lot of history of showing that getting an elite TE requires anywhere near this level draft pick. Most of the best TEs in the game from the past decade (give or take) were drafted in rounds 3-6. Gonzalez is the most accomplished ever, and was a tremendous talent, and even he wasn't a top 10 pick (let alone top 5), plus that was a draft with zero high-end QB prospects, let alone 4 of them.

I don't see how that happens when the time actually comes, no matter how enamored people are with him in Feb (and now early March). I know Detroit took Hockenson a couple drafts ago, but if anything it shows how even a TE pick that really pans out early-on still isn't enough to help a team that naturally picks that high. Awful hard to hang onto that pick, instead of moving down some, when offers are coming in from teams that want to move up for a QB, LT, and/or a WR. 

Then again this April there are a lot of players who will get drafted a good amount higher or lower than they'd have gone if there was a typical scouting combine in Feb. So maybe you're right and he goes that high. IMO it'd be a huge shock, though. 

I totally get why some would be adverse to it, but just see so much Darren Waller/Jimmy Graham in the kid’s game and if you can get a guy who gives you 90-100 catches for 1,000+ yards and 8-10 TDs from the TE position, I think you have got yourself a superstar playmaker.  Personally, I’d prefer the aforementioned Chase, but I just have this feeling Pitts is gonna be special and, while guys like Graham and Waller weren’t first round picks, I don’t think we’ve seen a guy compare so well to them like KP as a first round pick.  It’s a gamble I am totally okay with taking.

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5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I totally get why some would be adverse to it, but just see so much Darren Waller/Jimmy Graham in the kid’s game and if you can get a guy who gives you 90-100 catches for 1,000+ yards and 8-10 TDs from the TE position, I think you have got yourself a superstar playmaker.  Personally, I’d prefer the aforementioned Chase, but I just have this feeling Pitts is gonna be special and, while guys like Graham and Waller weren’t first round picks, I don’t think we’ve seen a guy compare so well to them like KP as a first round pick.  It’s a gamble I am totally okay with taking.

Waller and Graham were drafted in rounds 6 and 3 respectively, and it's more the norm than the exception for the top TEs to come from mid/later rounds. It's not like left tackles, where only a puny amount come from those later round picks. 

That's more my point than whether or not Pitts could produce at that level. 

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If teams had taken Kelce or Kittle in the top ten I’m not sure anyone is batting an eye. The issue isn’t with taking a tight end that high IMO, it’s that teams haven’t taken the right tight end that high so clearly something about the criteria they’re using is off.

That said, it’s also very easy to make the same argument about taking a quarterback at 2.

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5 hours ago, football guy said:

I think 4 is a little high to be drafting Pitts, let alone any "playmaker" in a draft full of them. You can move down to 8 and come away with an elite player who is likely just as good as who you would get at 4... the top 10 is weird this year in that outside of Lawrence, there's no 2nd or 3rd guy who is clearly better than the 9th or 10th guy. I think there's a drop off after 10, but otherwise a lot of parity among the players in the top 10. 

Sure- if you move down to 8 there's a chance Pitts is gone. But you still have the receivers and offensive linemen. 

The best way I've rationalized it: if you can get down to 6 or later and Pitts is there, that's a very comfortable spot. TJ Hockenson went 8. Eric Ebron went 10. Vernon Davis 6. Kellen Winslow 6. I think Pitts is on par with if not superior to those guys as prospects. 

Pitts is the best receiver in this draft and people get angry when they see a Tight End been picked in the top 5, that notion has to be dispelled with this player. Pitts is far from a regular TE and is the biggest difference maker on offence outside of Lawrence in this draft, if we pick him at #4 #6 #8 I'll be over the moon that he is on the jets roster.

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On 2/26/2021 at 1:31 PM, JetBlue said:

At first glance when I saw this on Kipers Mock, I was like, HELL NO!.   Then I started to think about it a bit.  Give Sam a weapon like Pitts plus Mims with a season under his belt.  Plus the additional draft capital that can be used to add OL, RB and perhaps another receiver, especially if Crowder is traded or released.   We could also address the CB/Edge positions as well.   Maybe sign another vet quarterback to back up Sam and Morgan.   If Sam proves that he is just not the guy, we will still have 2 first round picks in 2022 plus whatever other assets and can focus on finding our quarterback in that draft whiling having a much better all around team for him to play for.    We might even have some additional trade possibilities available this time next year.   

Bottom line is we could build a really formidable team and if we are lucky, Sam shows signs of being that franchise quarterback we thought he was and if not, we are still in position to go get one next year.  

It depends on how he develops, but I would bet on Mims having a good jump in performance next year.  ESPECIALLY from a health perspective, the guy he's working with is excellent at creating plans and programs for keeping guys from soft tissue injuries. 

My bet is that Mims puts together a very nice year 2. 

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On 2/28/2021 at 9:54 AM, isired said:
On 2/27/2021 at 11:15 PM, Warfish said:
Sounds like you got it all figured out.  

Haha yeah, with the exception that I know that I don't know what Sam is yet.

Yes you do.  You just don't like the conclusion at which you inevitably arrive.  

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23 hours ago, Mogglez said:

If the trade down is to 4, I think the move would be Ja’Marr Chase, as long as Miami doesn’t take him.  However, I reaaaally like Pitts and wouldn’t mind taking him, even if it’s a little high for a TE.  I think he’s a special type of talent.

I think a move down to 4 Chase would be the move if we stay, but I can see multiple trade downs in that scenario too.  Trade down to 4 then back to 8 maybe?  So many options there and a double trade back would net a realllllly nice haul of picks. 

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23 hours ago, Mogglez said:

If the trade down is to 4, I think the move would be Ja’Marr Chase, as long as Miami doesn’t take him.  However, I reaaaally like Pitts and wouldn’t mind taking him, even if it’s a little high for a TE.  I think he’s a special type of talent.

It would be hard for me to pass up Sewell if he was still available, but I don't think any of these guys would be massive reaches. 

I just don't expect the trade to be with Atlanta if there is one, but anything can happen

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43 minutes ago, football guy said:

It would be hard for me to pass up Sewell if he was still available, but I don't think any of these guys would be massive reaches. 

I just don't expect the trade to be with Atlanta if there is one, but anything can happen

The interesting scenario would be SF. Would you take 12,43 this year and 2022 1&2?

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On 2/26/2021 at 1:37 PM, TeddEY said:

There have been two TE's drafted top 10 in the last decade, and both were by the Lions.

No TE has ever been drafted top 5.

This seems unlikely.

Interesting Jets note.  Back when we drafted D Brick at 4 there was a lot of speculation we might take Vernon Davis.  Davis went 6 to SF and while he never achieved at the crazy level many thought he would achieve, he had 12 seasons where he started 14 or more games and had an excellent career.   While not the devastating weapon he was touted to be he was a quality top 10 pick the kind that the NY Jets have failed to draft way too often.  Although that was one of our best 1st round drafts with LT/Center anchoring the OL for years. 

He was part of a SF 49er team that went to the SB.

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3 minutes ago, ganggreen305 said:

I heard Daniel J say on the Rich Eisen show that the Jets could be packaging the 34th pick with Sam Darnold for a top 10-15 pick. 

Crazy.  No way.

Not the worst idea. Darnold + 34 to the 49ers at 12 works. Gives Darnold a late first value. 

12 is kind of no mans land though imo. Prefer Darnold + 23 to someone like Carolina at 8 to guarantee one of Chase/Smith/Waddle/Pitts. 

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I think I would be down with trading down for Pitts, Chase or Smith, taking a guard at 23 and another WR with our first second round pick. Sign stupid Juju and Thuney, and the offense is legit, even with Darnold at QB.

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If we do a trade down I don’t think it will be with the Falcons. But if we do I wouldn’t take Pitts at 4. I’d either do another trade down, select Sewell, the LSU receiver or D. Smith. If we take Smith no reason to re-sign Crowder. 

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5 hours ago, section314 said:

The interesting scenario would be SF. Would you take 12,43 this year and 2022 1&2?

Absolutely. I don't think they would go this far though; maybe 1(12), 2(43), 2022 1st, and 2023 2nd.

Ultimately the price comes down to the market.  Say Carolina offered say 1(8), 3(73), 4(113), 2022 1st, and 2023 3rd with SF offering that above, I would probably lean towards the Carolina offer for the simple reason that I would think the Panthers will draft higher in 2022. But at the same time, the SF offer is probably better. 

How about if they offered 1(8), 2(39), 2022 1st, and 2023 3rd? Then I would need at least 3 1st round picks from SF to make the deal. 

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1 hour ago, ganggreen305 said:

I heard Daniel J say on the Rich Eisen show that the Jets could be packaging the 34th pick with Sam Darnold for a top 10-15 pick. 

Crazy.  No way.

If this were the case, and I'm not sure if he's relying on info or just theorizing, I would think the deal would be for Carolina's pick 

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19 minutes ago, football guy said:

If this were the case, and I'm not sure if he's relying on info or just theorizing, I would think the deal would be for Carolina's pick 

Edit: I listened to the video, he was just turning out ideas. But Darnold and 34 for pick 8 or 9 seems like a damn steal. Give me that all day long.

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11 minutes ago, football guy said:

If this were the case, and I'm not sure if he's relying on info or just theorizing, I would think the deal would be for Carolina's pick 

That would be just utterly fantastic, particularly if the Jets wanted a quarterback at 2. Almost certainly an option to take Chase, Smith, Waddle, or Pitts at 8. If those four happen to all be off the board and a quarterback has gone, Sewell is there.

And if no quarterback has gone, reasonable a team might want to move in front of Denver - that’s probably the biggest spot after Atlanta at 4 though Philly and Detroit are certainly possible I suppose. Guess if they can’t work out a trade then Slater could work.

Or if they take a position player at 2 for whatever reason the odds that three quarterbacks go in the five picks from 3 to 7 seems low. But yeah, picking twice in the top 8 would be cool.

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