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PFF said that Penei Sewell is the best tackle "EVER"!!! A generational player at the position.


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If he really is that good, then the Jets have to draft him.  He would transform the offensive line to perhaps the most dominant line in the NFL. If we get Thuney or Lindsley, having Sewell and Be

This is my dream draft if we're sticking with Sam:   -Big Ticket goes to RT and I'd let his buddy Clark play alongside him at RG.   -McGovern goes to LG to stabilize the two rooki

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24 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

I literally posted in this same thread that Sam had some of the worst ‘clean pocket’ numbers in the league. He’s bad under pressure. He’s bad with no pressure. He’s bad when his WRs are hurt. He’s bad when his WRs are healthy. Maybe he’s just not that good. 
 

If Saleh and LeFleur think they can fix him and decide to bring him back this year, I’ll be the first one in line rooting for him.. but I’m also not going to continue to make excuses for the guy. Yeah his situation had sucked but he’s done nothing to show he can be an average, let alone a top QB in this league.

Do you know how old LaFleur is? 

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1 hour ago, shuler82 said:

I literally posted in this same thread that Sam had some of the worst ‘clean pocket’ numbers in the league. He’s bad under pressure. He’s bad with no pressure. He’s bad when his WRs are hurt. He’s bad when his WRs are healthy. Maybe he’s just not that good. 
 

If Saleh and LeFleur think they can fix him and decide to bring him back this year, I’ll be the first one in line rooting for him.. but I’m also not going to continue to make excuses for the guy. Yeah his situation had sucked but he’s done nothing to show he can be an average, let alone a top QB in this league.

The only receiver who gets open on a regular basis is Crowder. Darnolds job is to put points on the scoreboard. He forces throws too much, because he basically has no chance to score, otherwise. They aren't excuses. Did the olay calling suck. Yes. Did the running game suck. Yes. Did the offensive line pass block well. Run block well. No. It's not one issue that's hampered his development. It's a host of issues combined that have nothing to do with Sam. Look at what Daniel Jones did in 2019 when he had Barkley. Look at what he did this year without him. Talent around a QB counts. Especially a young one like Sam

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20 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

My issue with taking Smith personally isn’t an issue with the player so much as it’s too early to tell before FA. The “WR1” type FAs haven’t been tagged yet, and there’s plenty of time for that to happen between now & March 9th.

We don’t know which will be available, let alone which the Jets will sign, but - unless they’re specifically targeting Smith at #2 without trading down - it’s unlikely they’ll head into the draft with just Mims  + Crowder. Douglas doesn’t seem the type to leave such a gaping hole in the lineup that he’ll more or less be forced to either reach at the position or gamble that he’ll miss out on all his WR targets (at his targeted slots) in the first round or two. 

The franchise tag amount is low this year at $15.8MM - lower than most of the big-4 would expectedly get as UFAs - so there’s a decent chance the only ones who are available are ones who, frankly, aren’t $16MM/year receivers. That’d cross off Golloday, Godwin, and Robinson. Juju is the only one that really no one sees getting a franchise tag. Even if Chicago would have trouble fitting Robinson to finish building their roster - including their need at QB - it’d still be in their interest to clear some space temporarily so they can tag him, because someone will surely offer up more than a late 3rd round (comp) pick next year. 

I was hoping for a serious FA WR because the bust/disappointment percentage is so high at the position, no matter how great these guys looked in college. Add to it this year there isn’t a combine, despite its shortcomings, to level them all physically on the same field. e.g. if Smith ran just a 4.5 at his featherweight size then he wouldn’t even be a consideration at #2 no matter how great of a college player he was.

My only counter is it can be argued we need 2-3 WRs

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3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

My only counter is it can be argued we need 2-3 WRs

They have the other 2 right now. I'm not ready to anoint Mims as anything just yet, but am certainly not ready/looking to move on and presume he's merely a lower/complementary piece either. And that's the other reason I don't want them to dump Crowder, even if they do manage to add someone special in FA: if Mims isn't all that, I don't want the team to have to use such a high pick on a WR just in case. 

Use the extreme FA example - the WR most would like us to add if he's not tagged (and if he'd come here without Watson even if we're the high bidder again) - in Allen Robinson. If the WR trio is Robinson-Mims-Crowder, why would we need to draft another one at #2? And while Smith is more talented than Crowder, and Robinson-Mims-Smith sounds better, the team will already have its #1 plus another who allegedly has the potential to be another one in that mold. While 3 such WRs certainly wouldn't hurt, they won't seem like that because there aren't enough footballs to go around for 3 guys to each of them get 120-150 passes thrown his way (let alone from a decidedly not-elite passer).

If they can manage to sign a WR1 who isn't best suited for the slot, imo see what we have before we go balls deep using the #2 pick to add to it. While all these high & higher picks are a great luxury to have, part of the problem with so many - in such a short span - is that players don't get much time before the temptation is too overwhelming to invest in replacing them with shiny new things.

Younger players often need time to grow, and it robs them of that. Mims had just one half of one season with a very abbreviated (almost nonexistent) camp/summer, suspect coaching/gameplanning/playcalling, and a suspect QB throwing to him. Look at Robinson's rookie season: his biggest statistical game was 82 yards & a TD (itself thanks to a useless 48-yard TD in garbage time). Did he look like a 1400-yard, 14-TD probowl WR as a rookie? No way.

They have all this cap room, and spending another season to reassess Darnold by having him throwing to just inexperienced & developmental rookie/2nd-yr targets seems wasteful and pre-loaded for still more excuses. Wasteful for the whole team for the season, and wasteful of year of younger targets' cheaper rookie contracts. Also while not a reason to trade down on its own, the #2 pick isn't nearly as much of a discount at almost $10MM/year; Becton makes half what a #2 pick makes for the first 4 years; Seattle's #23 pick will be closer to $3MM/year than $10MM. You can't always get the same caliber player as you can way up top, of course, but in addition to accumulating additional high pick(s) it's a nice extra benefit that 5-6 of them cost the same (or less) as just one premium FA WR.

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On 2/27/2021 at 7:34 PM, Beerfish said:

I'm sure he is a fine player but taking a tackle at 2 the year after taking a LT at 11 is not the way to do things.

Would much much much rather trade down and use those resource to get a guard and center.

I think that is the issue.  If he is a "fine player" then drafting him the year after Becton isn't the way to do things.  That is picking Leonard Williams to join Snacks, WIlkerson, Richardson and Coples.  If he is a generational, HOF LT?  You absolutely draft him, unless there is some HOF'er at some other position staring you in the face.  It takes balls, but our GM had better have them.

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On 2/28/2021 at 8:38 PM, genot said:

The only receiver who gets open on a regular basis is Crowder. Darnolds job is to put points on the scoreboard. He forces throws too much, because he basically has no chance to score, otherwise. They aren't excuses. Did the olay calling suck. Yes. Did the running game suck. Yes. Did the offensive line pass block well. Run block well. No. It's not one issue that's hampered his development. It's a host of issues combined that have nothing to do with Sam. Look at what Daniel Jones did in 2019 when he had Barkley. Look at what he did this year without him. Talent around a QB counts. Especially a young one like Sam

Under the same circumstances Flacco thru the ball away while Sam either thru INT or took sacks.  

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53 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think that is the issue.  If he is a "fine player" then drafting him the year after Becton isn't the way to do things.  That is picking Leonard Williams to join Snacks, WIlkerson, Richardson and Coples.  If he is a generational, HOF LT?  You absolutely draft him, unless there is some HOF'er at some other position staring you in the face.  It takes balls, but our GM had better have them.

That is exactly the point of this entire thread that I started.  Thank goodness somebody "gets it!"

If he truly is the best tackle prospect in the history of the NFL, then you must pick him.  According to PFF, Sewell has no flaws whatsoever.

Of course, this is an opinion, and like all opinions, it is hard to say for sure how much emotion or other factors enter into forming an opinion.  

But for PFF to make such an overwhelmingly positive statement, it has definitely made me take notice.

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22 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Under the same circumstanced Flacco thru the ball away while Sam either thru INT or took sacks.  

Your right. Flacco has been in the league for 13 yrs. When he was drafted he had a QB coach. Jim Zorn. Flacco said he was a great help. Without him, he might never have made it. Experience, and proper teaching count for something. No

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4 hours ago, Alka said:

That is exactly the point of this entire thread that I started.  Thank goodness somebody "gets it!"

If he truly is the best tackle prospect in the history of the NFL, then you must pick him.  According to PFF, Sewell has no flaws whatsoever.

Of course, this is an opinion, and like all opinions, it is hard to say for sure how much emotion or other factors enter into forming an opinion.  

But for PFF to make such an overwhelmingly positive statement, it has definitely made me take notice.

This is the Macc way of thinking.  Take the safe guy regardless of position. 

The difference between Sewell's superior RT play, and Fant's adequate RT play, won't improve our team that much. 

I'd rather take the upgrade between Chase vs Perriman.

If we needed a LT, I would say yes to Sewell.  

 

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On 2/27/2021 at 5:14 PM, undertow said:

I understand some of you are dead set on drafting a QB but pretending offensives lines aren't one of the most important units on the field in order to make your point is beyond a galaxy brain take.

There's a lot of space between saying "OL is important" and "We have to draft Sewell at 2 overall".  They aren't mutually exclusive points.

My preferred plan includes signing Corey Linsley, shifting McGovern to G, and using 1-2 picks on pipeline picks in the rd 2-5 range at IOL and RT.  

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On 2/27/2021 at 5:59 PM, CTJetsFan said:

Regardless of feelings about Darnold, this stat seems a bit misleading. Clean pocket is half the equation. The other half is WRs getting separation from DBs 

Those WR's looked just fine with Flacco under center.  

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On 2/28/2021 at 4:52 PM, Lizard King said:

The poor kid hasn’t had any decent coaching since he came into the league. His first head coach went back to being a defensive coordinator. His second head coach will be lucky if he coaches high school. Im not saying he’s Johnny Unitas but how about being taught the way to play the game the right way at the professional level at least. Give the kid a ******* chance 

It's not the Jets coaches fault that Darnold didn't play QB in High School and had just 2 years of experience as a starting college QB.  A baseline expectation of QB knowledge and ability to make presnap reads/decisions needs to be there with a prospect before he gets to the NFL.  That simply didn't exist for Darnold.  Learning to play the position at the pro level just isn't a thing, and certainly not the kind of prospect you burn a top 5 pick on.  

The whole argument about the "mean old Jets ruined Darnold" is comforting for his supporters until you acknowledge he was not good at USC in 2017, either.  13 INTs and 11 fumbles is horrific for a supposed elite prospect.  There were red flags there prior to two different NFL coaching staffs getting their hands on Darnold.  Most of us just overlooked it because of that one great Rose Bowl performance.  

So unless you want to hoist a bunch of blame on the USC coaches, too, to add yet another excuse to the large pile made for him, its time to recognize that Darnold was a flawed prospect who remained flawed in the pros.  It doesn't require a ton of mental gymnastics or excuses to try to reconcile his draft pedigree to his pro performance.

Darnold sucks.  

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19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's not the Jets coaches fault that Darnold didn't play QB in High School and had just 2 years of experience as a starting college QB.  A baseline expectation of QB knowledge and ability to make presnap reads/decisions needs to be there with a prospect before he gets to the NFL.  That simply didn't exist for Darnold.  Learning to play the position at the pro level just isn't a thing, and certainly not the kind of prospect you burn a top 5 pick on.  

The whole argument about the "mean old Jets ruined Darnold" is comforting for his supporters until you acknowledge he was not good at USC in 2017, either.  13 INTs and 11 fumbles is horrific for a supposed elite prospect.  There were red flags there prior to two different NFL coaching staffs getting their hands on Darnold.  Most of us just overlooked it because of that one great Rose Bowl performance.  

So unless you want to hoist a bunch of blame on the USC coaches, too, to add yet another excuse to the large pile made for him, its time to recognize that Darnold was a flawed prospect who remained flawed in the pros.  It doesn't require a ton of mental gymnastics or excuses to try to reconcile his draft pedigree to his pro performance.

Darnold sucks.  

Fine. LaFleur is like 30 years old - you really think he’s going to be the guy that saves the offensive side this sinking iceberg?

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52 minutes ago, Lizard King said:

Fine. LaFleur is like 30 years old - you really think he’s going to be the guy that saves the offensive side this sinking iceberg?

LaFleur is like 30 years old.

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2 hours ago, Lizard King said:

Fine. LaFleur is like 30 years old - you really think he’s going to be the guy that saves the offensive side this sinking iceberg?

No, because as usual, a real QB is going to fix the offense.  Not an Offensive Coordinator.  OC's are important.  Just not as important as Jets fans love to argue.  Even the best OC's can't turn sh*t into steak.  They can only take good QB's and help make them very good, or help very good QB's get to great.  

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No, because as usual, a real QB is going to fix the offense.  Not an Offensive Coordinator.  OC's are important.  Just not as important as Jets fans love to argue.  Even the best OC's can't turn sh*t into steak.  They can only take good QB's and help make them very good, or help very good QB's get to great.  

I think that’s hysterical. I wouldn’t trust a 30 year old to give me a vasectomy but this team is going to put one in charge of the worst offense in the league.
 

In the same thought, those supporters state that it doesn’t matter that the most important player in the organization hasn’t been given one day of proper training from an established proven coach. 

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2 minutes ago, Lizard King said:

I think that’s hysterical. I wouldn’t trust a 30 year old to give me a vasectomy but this team is going to put one in charge of the worst offense in the league.
 

In the same thought, those supporters state that it doesn’t matter that the most important player in the organization hasn’t been given one day of proper training from an established proven coach. 

 

Meh.  Sean McVay became an NFL OC at the age of 28.  Coaching football really isn't that complicated.  He's not out there trying to cure cancer.

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

He went to a Super Bowl with Jared Goff.  

Yeah, btw, the year after LaFleur went to Tenn. Redskins QB play was absolutely savage under LaFleur as QB coach. 

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44 minutes ago, Lizard King said:

Yeah, btw, the year after LaFleur went to Tenn. Redskins QB play was absolutely savage under LaFleur as QB coach. 

I'm confused. How does Matt LaFleur's work with LA, Washington and Tennessee have anything to do with Mike LaFleur's ability to be a successful OC with the Jets?

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wasnt Slater the best Tackle last week? 

TB won a SB with one 1st rd pick on there OL. 2 from the 2nd, one 3rd and a 6th. im sure if i went through the best teams in the NFL they didnt waste 2 1st rd picks on the OL.

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4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There's a lot of space between saying "OL is important" and "We have to draft Sewell at 2 overall".  They aren't mutually exclusive points.

My preferred plan includes signing Corey Linsley, shifting McGovern to G, and using 1-2 picks on pipeline picks in the rd 2-5 range at IOL and RT.  

That's a perfectly reasonable argument...just like there's perfectly reasonable arguments for moving on from Sam...these opinions and comments devolve into low IQ nonsense tho which is what I was calling out.

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1 hour ago, John Blaze said:

I'm confused. How does Matt LaFleur's work with LA, Washington and Tennessee have anything to do with Mike LaFleur's ability to be a successful OC with the Jets?

Oh crap. Hahah. Just glad it was you and not 80. 
 

I mean though, still, our guy had Garoppolo, who played under Brady, which is a vast difference in circumstances to Sam


the point I’m making still Holds. Sam hasn’t been given a decent chance to be taught. Maybe this is his year. 

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22 minutes ago, Lizard King said:

Oh crap. Hahah. Just glad it was you and not 80. 
 

I mean though, still, our guy had Garoppolo, who played under Brady, which is a vast difference in circumstances to Sam


the point I’m making still Holds. Sam hasn’t been given a decent chance to be taught. Maybe this is his year. 

I get it but I disagree. I'm team Watson or Fields.

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Perhaps Douglas is doing his job, building up more interest for his #2 pick by allowing others to hype up Wilson for trade value.

Unless the Jets address the offensive line it really doesn't matter the name of the QB behind center if they are throwing from their back.  It reminds me of the scene from the Water Boy when Sandler was making those funny noises chasing the QB only its the QB making those noises.

Draft Sewell who is a generational talent at his position according to experts, draft Eitienne or Harris at 23 and if we do not address guard in free agency take one in round 2.  You make your team and QB significantly better.  Drafting Chase or Smith with no O Line 3 seconds does not get them down field to catch the ball.

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35 minutes ago, NYDreamer said:

Perhaps Douglas is doing his job, building up more interest for his #2 pick by allowing others to hype up Wilson for trade value.

Unless the Jets address the offensive line it really doesn't matter the name of the QB behind center if they are throwing from their back.  It reminds me of the scene from the Water Boy when Sandler was making those funny noises chasing the QB only its the QB making those noises.

Draft Sewell who is a generational talent at his position according to experts, draft Eitienne or Harris at 23 and if we do not address guard in free agency take one in round 2.  You make your team and QB significantly better.  Drafting Chase or Smith with no O Line 3 seconds does not get them down field to catch the ball.

I wouldn’t have a problem with your picks but JD would need to find out if Sewell or Becton would have any issues playing on the right side. If there is the Jets would have to go in another direction.

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They have the other 2 right now. I'm not ready to anoint Mims as anything just yet, but am certainly not ready/looking to move on and presume he's merely a lower/complementary piece either. And that's the other reason I don't want them to dump Crowder, even if they do manage to add someone special in FA: if Mims isn't all that, I don't want the team to have to use such a high pick on a WR just in case. 

Use the extreme FA example - the WR most would like us to add if he's not tagged (and if he'd come here without Watson even if we're the high bidder again) - in Allen Robinson. If the WR trio is Robinson-Mims-Crowder, why would we need to draft another one at #2? And while Smith is more talented than Crowder, and Robinson-Mims-Smith sounds better, the team will already have its #1 plus another who allegedly has the potential to be another one in that mold. While 3 such WRs certainly wouldn't hurt, they won't seem like that because there aren't enough footballs to go around for 3 guys to each of them get 120-150 passes thrown his way (let alone from a decidedly not-elite passer).

If they can manage to sign a WR1 who isn't best suited for the slot, imo see what we have before we go balls deep using the #2 pick to add to it. While all these high & higher picks are a great luxury to have, part of the problem with so many - in such a short span - is that players don't get much time before the temptation is too overwhelming to invest in replacing them with shiny new things.

Younger players often need time to grow, and it robs them of that. Mims had just one half of one season with a very abbreviated (almost nonexistent) camp/summer, suspect coaching/gameplanning/playcalling, and a suspect QB throwing to him. Look at Robinson's rookie season: his biggest statistical game was 82 yards & a TD (itself thanks to a useless 48-yard TD in garbage time). Did he look like a 1400-yard, 14-TD probowl WR as a rookie? No way.

They have all this cap room, and spending another season to reassess Darnold by having him throwing to just inexperienced & developmental rookie/2nd-yr targets seems wasteful and pre-loaded for still more excuses. Wasteful for the whole team for the season, and wasteful of year of younger targets' cheaper rookie contracts. Also while not a reason to trade down on its own, the #2 pick isn't nearly as much of a discount at almost $10MM/year; Becton makes half what a #2 pick makes for the first 4 years; Seattle's #23 pick will be closer to $3MM/year than $10MM. You can't always get the same caliber player as you can way up top, of course, but in addition to accumulating additional high pick(s) it's a nice extra benefit that 5-6 of them cost the same (or less) as just one premium FA WR.

We have a slot (Crowder) and Mims I will anoint I think he’s the real deal and takes a significant step next season regardless of who is the qb.  Berrios is fine as depth 

NFL is all about 4-WR sets right now to spread out the field even on obvious rushing downs

 

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45 minutes ago, NYDreamer said:

Perhaps Douglas is doing his job, building up more interest for his #2 pick by allowing others to hype up Wilson for trade value.

Unless the Jets address the offensive line it really doesn't matter the name of the QB behind center if they are throwing from their back.  It reminds me of the scene from the Water Boy when Sandler was making those funny noises chasing the QB only its the QB making those noises.

Draft Sewell who is a generational talent at his position according to experts, draft Eitienne or Harris at 23 and if we do not address guard in free agency take one in round 2.  You make your team and QB significantly better.  Drafting Chase or Smith with no O Line 3 seconds does not get them down field to catch the ball.

As much as I love your idea of drafting Sewell and Etienne or Harris and just ramming it down everyone’s throats next season with a great running game I actually think Ty Johnson could be a good featured back.  He looked really good end of last season 

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1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

We have a slot (Crowder) and Mims I will anoint I think he’s the real deal and takes a significant step next season regardless of who is the qb.  Berrios is fine as depth 

NFL is all about 4-WR sets right now to spread out the field even on obvious rushing downs

 

Yeah you’re not getting me on board with the idea that, if the Jets already have

  1. FA WR1 (Allen Robinson or whomever)
  2. Mims (whom you already anoint as the real deal)
  3. Crowder

...that they should then go on to use the #2 overall pick on a WR. Because the NFL is “all about 4-WR sets right now” (i.e. a trend you think you’re spotting)? And Sam Darnold should drive that offense’s car, too. 

I’d say if they somehow can sign someone like Robinson, and still opt to keep Crowder, WR is about the last position they should be looking at way up at #2. FFS the very point of signing a ready-made WR1 for all that money is he’s a sure thing and it frees up your best draft picks to use on other positions. Not to still use the pick on BAP Maccagnan-style whether or not it’s the best fit & biggest overall team improvement.

In the above scenario I’d have a WR at #2 way, way behind drafting a QB or a second LT the team doesn’t badly need (the former frees up another high pick in trading Darnold). Either of those moves I currently have below just trading down and, with our highest pick, draft any among (in no particular order):  TE Pitts, a CB, the next-best QB, or just trading down yet again if there’s a decent offer on the table.

But no way in that situation am I burning the #2 pick on a 175-pound WR so we should have 4 starter-worthy wideouts for 4-WR sets. I’d take another FA WR like re-signing Perriman before using the #2 pick like it’s something that we should expect to come along every year. Or just stick with Berrios as a WR4 plus a much later WR pick than #2.

A 4th starting WR is a waste of such a high pick.Then again, if we use a high 1st round pick on starting positions already filled (or are so commonly filled well much later than #2) - like the Jets used to keep doing with 34DEs - then we’ll keep picking around the top 5 and maybe the strategy is to tank in 2021 again, and then possibly again in 2022. 

If they don’t trade away that pick for Watson, use it to fill an actual hole.

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