Jet Nut Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 12 minutes ago, bitonti said: 60 yarders with the NFL football become 50 yarders. Another visit to James Andrew he's Chadwick throwing soup And you have no idea what youre talking about. I saw Browning Nagle throw balls from one EZ to another, 100+ yard pass. Helped get him into the HOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, maury77 said: The sky is yellow. You literally have never thrown a ball if you believe what you have posted. So, to be clear. You're telling me - When college QB's go to the NFL - their deep ball distance goes down 10 yards due to the larger ball? Is that what you're saying? I just want to be clear that you stated I never threw a ball because I don't believe that statement to be accurate at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, bitonti said: Zach wilson looks like a high school qb He does not look like an NFL qb who throws an NFL football and takes nfl hits His uncle owns Jet blue. A couple of concussions and he will retire because he doesn't need this This is beyond Dumb. I mean far beyond it... Jeeze - any QB drafted in the top 5 will be a mulit, multi millionaire and have more money than they would know what to do with in their first contract alone. To think just because his uncle has money he'll retire sooner is such flawed logic. I really don't even know what to say. It's clear to me you're trolling today but there are people actually agreeing with this non-sense. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 10 hours ago, maury77 said: I say this with all due respect but, the point isn't that he has bad in prior years, the point is that he has never played a well when given a chance against a power 5 school. It means he only has played well when playing against inferior competition. Josh allen struggled a ton when his Wyoming team faced tougher competition. Tua looked great when his bama team faced inferior competition. Tua was passing to wide open NFL talent while facing garbage secondaries. I think the lesson here is that evaluating college QBs is a little more complex and you can't just look at his production vs good teams and then ignore the lopsided lack of talent he was playing with 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: Your drafting his skill-set, his talent, his arm strength, his quick release, his anticipation, his accuracy etc... It's his below average skillset that is the problem He could do it, like Brees. It's possible. But no one takes a Brees at 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 minute ago, FidelioJet said: This is beyond Dumb. I mean far beyond it... Jeeze - any QB drafted in the top 5 will be a mulit, multi millionaire and have more money than they would know what to do with in their first contract alone. To think just because his uncle has money he'll retire sooner is such flawed logic. I really don't even know what to say. It's clear to me you're trolling today but there are people actually agreeing with this non-sense. It's the Josh Rosen factor. If you are not hungry the league will crap you out 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maury77 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 So, to be clear. You're telling me - When college QB's go to the NFL - their deep ball distance goes down 10 yards due to the larger ball? Is that what you're saying? I just want to be clear that you stated I never threw a ball because I don't believe that statement to be accurate at all.It is harder to throw a larger ball than a smaller ball, depending on the person’s hand size it may or may not be an issue, I don’t know how big Wilson’s hands are so I don’t know if it will be an issue, but for you to outright object to Bit’s point is incorrect Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, bitonti said: It's the Josh Rosen factor. If you are not hungry the league will crap you out Manziel had wealthy parents too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, bitonti said: It's the Josh Rosen factor. If you are not hungry the league will crap you out I love this one.. Zach Wilson is going to give up football because Josh Rosen wasn't hungry? That's a new one. I like it though. I'm done with your trolling today, I hope you go back to normal tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMA Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, bitonti said: It's the Josh Rosen factor. If you are not hungry the league will crap you out That's a big stretch to associate his desire to work with a relative's success. If you don't think he will be good based on 2019 tape it can be argued but this is like saying Mahomes was born into wealth so you know he will be "crapped out". I will take accuracy, quick release and mobility over throwing it 80 yards every day. He is still young and not getting smaller. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: This is beyond Dumb. I mean far beyond it... Jeeze - any QB drafted in the top 5 will be a mulit, multi millionaire and have more money than they would know what to do with in their first contract alone. To think just because his uncle has money he'll retire sooner is such flawed logic. I really don't even know what to say. It's clear to me you're trolling today but there are people actually agreeing with this non-sense. The concept that Wilson will cave because his dad is rich is honestly gladiatorial thinking ... sad ... and at the very least elitist if not somewhat unfair thinking socio economic privileges'. (edited from racist - which was not exactly accurate) Edited March 8, 2021 by Dunnie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snook Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 10 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: Manziel had wealthy parents too. So did Elway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 36 minutes ago, Columbia Jet Fan said: Here is PFFs draft scout going through each prospects longest throw. Wilson’s is the furthest at 64 yards. Not on a straight line - so at minimum we’re looking at 66 yards. Not to say the other guys can’t do that or more - but the argument that Wilson doesn’t have the requisite arm strength doesn’t hold water. Also while your points about his frame are valid from a longevity perspective, from an arm strength perspective it works the other way. Wilson should be able to tack on at minimum 10-15 lbs of muscle over the course of his NFL career as opposed to his playing weight at BYU. Not sure you can project that for Fields. That should only help his arm strength. You watched these videos and thought it was evidence of Wilson's arm strength comparative to Fields? Am I understanding correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 12 minutes ago, maury77 said: It is harder to throw a larger ball than a smaller ball, depending on the person’s hand size it may or may not be an issue, I don’t know how big Wilson’s hands are so I don’t know if it will be an issue, but for you to outright object to Bit’s point is incorrect Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk He said 10 yards. That's what I was objecting to...Sure the ball is slightly bigger and there will certainly be a slight transition but in the big picture it's not a major concern. But he stated as a point of fact that if you throw the ball 60 yards in college it'll be 50 in the NFL...And that's just ridiculous. I won't discuss ZW with you anymore as you requested, but this is a different story. Nothing to do with Zach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Snook said: So did Elway. the Mannings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, Dunnie said: The concept that Wilson will cave because his dad is rich is honestly gladiatorial thinking ... sad ... and at the very least elitist if not somewhat unfair thinking socio economic privileges'. (edited from racist - which was not exactly accurate) I think the poster child for this is Brady. He certainly does NOT need the money. He could have retired 5 years ago with a HoF career. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 8 hours ago, bitonti said: They measured the QBs longest throws on tape and fields 70 yards had the strongest arm. That bomb vs Clemson. Trevor was 2nd at 66. Mac Jones was 62 and Wilson was 60 yards in the air He's got like a Watson arm if you want to be complimentary. He does not spin it or throw fastballs 8 hours ago, Columbia Jet Fan said: Here is PFFs draft scout going through each prospects longest throw. Wilson’s is the furthest at 64 yards. Not on a straight line - so at minimum we’re looking at 66 yards. Not to say the other guys can’t do that or more - but the argument that Wilson doesn’t have the requisite arm strength doesn’t hold water. Also while your points about his frame are valid from a longevity perspective, from an arm strength perspective it works the other way. Wilson should be able to tack on at minimum 10-15 lbs of muscle over the course of his NFL career as opposed to his playing weight at BYU. Not sure you can project that for Fields. That should only help his arm strength. I am not sure I can think of a less important indicator of arm strength than the furthest distance a pass traveled in the air. Who rightly gives a ****? It's not how far the ball goes, it's how fast it gets there. There is quite a difference between stepping up and heaving it and dropping back an ripping a deep out. FWIW, I am sure that Wilson's arm is fine, but the ball does not seem to fly out of his hand like Fields to me. I am not complaining about his arm, but it doesn't seem like a cannon to me. 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbia Jet Fan Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said: You watched these videos and thought it was evidence of Wilson's arm strength comparative to Fields? Am I understanding correctly? The question I was responding to was that Wilson has a meh arm, hasn't thrown more than 60 whereas the other QBs have thrown much further. That is clearly not the case. Whether Fields has a stronger arm than Wilson is almost irrelevant - the question is does Wilson have a strong enough arm to make all the requisite throws in the NFL? At a certain point the returns on arm strength start to diminish - its great that Jamarcus Russell can throw 70 yards kneeling - but obviously that wasn't enough to make him an NFL QB. Wilson threw a ball 66 yards - thats pretty good, Fields arm is probably bigger but do you believe Wilson doesn't have an NFL quality arm? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Columbia Jet Fan said: The question I was responding to was that Wilson has a meh arm, hasn't thrown more than 60 whereas the other QBs have thrown much further. That is clearly not the case. Whether Fields has a stronger arm than Wilson is almost irrelevant - the question is does Wilson have a strong enough arm to make all the requisite throws in the NFL? At a certain point the returns on arm strength start to diminish - its great that Jamarcus Russell can throw 70 yards kneeling - but obviously that wasn't enough to make him an NFL QB. Wilson threw a ball 66 yards - thats pretty good, Fields arm is probably bigger but do you believe Wilson doesn't have an NFL quality arm? Fair! Thanks for clarifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 34 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: Manziel had wealthy parents too. So does Mahomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbia Jet Fan Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: I am not sure I can think of a less important indicator of arm strength than the furthest distance a pass traveled in the air. Who rightly gives a ****? It's not how far the ball goes, it's how fast it gets there. There is quite a difference between stepping up and heavinng it and dropping back an ripping a deep out. FWIW, I am sure that Wilson's arm is fine, but the ball does not seem to fly out of his hand like Fields to me. I am not complaining about his arm, but it doesn't seem like a cannon to me. Repost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmello Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Looking forward to the pro days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Who are the comps? Wilson reminds me of Sanchez. That isn't awful, but it doesn't help me root for him. Some of it might be the jump off two feet into the end zone that they show in all the highlights. Some I think might just be size. I am prejudiced against them. I want a big ****er with a cannon. Lance reminds me of Leftwich or Culpepper, but he ran run. That is probably based off a single clip of him shrugging off a pass rusher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 28 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: Who are the comps? Wilson reminds me of Sanchez. That isn't awful, but it doesn't help me root for him. Some of it might be the jump off two feet into the end zone that they show in all the highlights. Some I think might just be size. I am prejudiced against them. I want a big ****er with a cannon. Lance reminds me of Leftwich or Culpepper, but he ran run. That is probably based off a single clip of him shrugging off a pass rusher. Throws much better than Mark Sanchez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, FidelioJet said: This is beyond Dumb. I mean far beyond it... Jeeze - any QB drafted in the top 5 will be a mulit, multi millionaire and have more money than they would know what to do with in their first contract alone. To think just because his uncle has money he'll retire sooner is such flawed logic. I really don't even know what to say. It's clear to me you're trolling today but there are people actually agreeing with this non-sense. Theres no comparison between the son of a pro athlete like Mahomes, Manning and the son of wealth like rosen and Wilson. Zach Wilsons father played college football. He had 7 knee surgeries. People are who they are based on their upbringing and genes. Nature and nurture. I don't believe his body will be able to absorb nfl punishment. A player like Rosen or wilson can just walk away from the game at any point and feel no ill effects. It matters when the doctors bring out the big needles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said: Throws much better than Mark Sanchez. The lack of footwork is positively Darnoldian The Jets love to find guys who only perform from unstable platforms. I don't think we've seen a guy with actual footwork since Chad. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 33 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said: Throws much better than Mark Sanchez. I am no QB expert, but I strongly disagree. Sanchez looked pretty good coming out. The only issue was his lack of experience. Particularly looking at that clip. I see no Aaron Rodgers and no flick. I see a fairly uncoordinated roll out and his feet catching before he throws. I have seen Wilson look good. I get that is a pretty long toss, but he does not look good to me in this clip. The only thing I agree with is the "huh" 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Justin Fields can take a hit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: I am no QB expert, but I strongly disagree. Sanchez looked pretty good coming out. The only issue was his lack of experience. Particularly looking at that clip. I see no Aaron Rodgers and no flick. I see a fairly uncoordinated roll out and his feet catching before he throws. I have seen Wilson look good. I get that is a pretty long toss, but he does not look good to me in this clip. The only thing I agree with is the "huh" Yeah, I don't love that clip of him. It certainly shows off his arm strength and release (really tough to argue about those things with him) But it looks super nonchalant, like he's just playing around. Not sure the situation they were in at that time so hard to judge him or not. If he was just screwing around in a situation where it's okay to mess around, no biggie. If this was a situation where he was being seriously evaluated I am a bit concerned for sure... Not with the footwork, because I've seen him use quality football, but with his focus. Just seemed lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Why not show the whole thing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 ^Fields is noticeably larger, smoother, and throws farther with just as “little effort” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMo Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 hours ago, FidelioJet said: Stop. They not losing 10 yards on an inch of circumference...It's not like the ball in any heavier. You really are reaching deep into the troll bag today. You do understand that reducing the radius in certain aspects of physics can reduce airflow by a power of 4 right. Admittedly bit is totally trolling but this stuff does make a difference. As does the caliber of athlete. Again I’m Randy Moss when you watch me play against my fellow physicians. Doesn’t mean I am going to dominating if you throw me out there on a Sunday. Which is @maury77’s point 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 35 minutes ago, TheMo said: You do understand that reducing the radius in certain aspects of physics can reduce airflow by a power of 4 right. Admittedly bit is totally trolling but this stuff does make a difference. As does the caliber of athlete. Again I’m Randy Moss when you watch me play against my fellow physicians. Doesn’t mean I am going to dominating if you throw me out there on a Sunday. Which is @maury77’s point It doesn't make 10 yards of difference...i don't care what you or your physics has to say about. I'm sure you're smart enough to build a formula to prove it...go for it. I'll just use the basic eye test. Arms from college don't change noticeably from college to the NFL. I'm sure there's some slight change in velocity but I'm also quite confident it's nowhere near 10 yards on a deep ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 4 hours ago, Jet Nut said: And you have no idea what youre talking about. I saw Browning Nagle throw balls from one EZ to another, 100+ yard pass. Helped get him into the HOF. BTW, what are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 4 hours ago, bitonti said: It's his below average skillset that is the problem He could do it, like Brees. It's possible. But no one takes a Brees at 2 Below average skillset? Seriously. You are just becoming an obnoxious troll at this point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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