Zach Wilson is a Bum!

[dbatesman]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Funny, I've officially reached the point where I want Miami to get Watson, the Jets to draft Wilson who busts out of the league because duh and then the Pats draft Fields who wins OROY and looks better than Lawrence so then we have Watson, Allen, Fields in the division for the next 15 years!

Not sure you need to root for that, in the same way you don’t need to root for the sun to rise in the east

[neckdemon]

12 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Darnold has been in the league three years.  With that said, Wilson would have likely been better.

I think Sam regressed.  He was a better QB his rookie year than he was last season.

i disagree. i think wilson would have been much worse and most likely not even made it through the season without being put on IR. 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Lurker89 said:

You forgot 

#3) I don't like his incessant cheerleaders

And

#4) I don't like his stupid face

I'm firmly in both of those camps

#5 could be he played against a bunch of modified and highschool JV football teams while in college.... But I'll stick with #3 and #4 for now.

 

In all seriousness if we take his silly prepubescent *** hopefully he's good and it  works like all the cheerleaders think it will.

 

Or it doesn't and that will be funny as well.

If we're really making the list or reason's why not to draft him here's just a few I've heard around here...

1) He's Mormon

2) He's looks like a girl (I've actually heard him called a Fairy)

3) He's on medication

4) He wasn't a captain (lie)

5) He likes the Beach Boys

6) He's rich

7) He's soft

And that's just the start - None of those have ANYTHING to do with football or are entirely made up...Yet I've read them over and over again on JetNation.

 

[nycdan]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sweet username though.  One of my favorite books.

There's a Hungarian author, Steven Brust, who writes fascinating fantasy novels in an interesting setting.  One of his lines starts with a book called 'The Phoenix Guards' that is literally an homage to The Three Musketeers.  Similar writing style to Dumas, so it's not for everyone, but you might really enjoy it.

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

i disagree. i think wilson would have been much worse and most likely not even made it through the season without being put on IR. 

Basing that on what?  

I'm assuming it's based on the the three games Wilson missed in his three years as a starter? Just wanted to make sure - there wasn't some other reason for that presumption.

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Funny, I've officially reached the point where I want Miami to get Watson, the Jets to draft Wilson who busts out of the league because duh and then the Pats draft Fields who wins OROY and looks better than Lawrence so then we have Watson, Allen, Fields in the division for the next 15 years!

Sure this all sounds bad in theory but, pray tell, have you considered the solid right tackle we could draft at 23 in this scenario? 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Sure this all sounds bad in theory but, pray tell, have you considered the solid right tackle we could draft at 23 in this scenario? 

Darnold will have all day to throw and will still miss open receivers, all because Lafleur didn't call the good plays.  

[neckdemon]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's a very low bar to clear.  

once you guys get it through your head that the team itself has almost no talent and that no qb would have looked good then you will have made some progress. it's short-sighted to draft a qb who only had one good season, against teams that were jv college level at best, and expect that he will come here and do anything except bust and set the team back even further. we can all continue arguing this, but the fact of the matter is that, until this team has any semblance of being a legit nfl roster, any qb who is here will be sh*t and look like sh*t. our best wr was a slot guy who would be #3 on a lot of teams and #2 at best on most others, and after that we had no one who could be considered an actual starter. our oline was one of, if not the worst in the league, and the best player on it was an inconsistent rookie who is a much better run blocker than pass blocker. our rb was a 37 yr old with a million miles on his legs who ran behind the worst run blocking line in the league (1.1 yds before contact bad). the coach was the worst in the league, whose offense sucked everywhere he went except for one year when he had a hall of famer calling the plays and running the offense. there isn't a qb in the league that would have looked good on this team. drafting a suspect qb with the #2 pick is one of the dumbest things douglas can do with the pick

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, neckdemon said:

Plus I like to be optimistic. I know it's hard as a lifelong jets fan....

Yup.  Certainly is hard for me, without any evidence in-hand.

Just becoming less enamored with J.D as a decision maker, but not selling him yet.  I hope to see his picks and his pending picks have a BIG season in 2021.  

[varjet]

• Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Jackson.  Those are the QBs drafted recently who I want to try and replicate for the Jets.  Big, strong, athletic.  Each came out of college in a different state of NFL readiness, but we coached up to play in the NFL.
• On NFL Sirius this morning the discussion was focused on how defenses are focused on the DL to attack the new QBs.   I like the concept of Zach Wilson, but I wonder for the 2nd pick in the draft we are going to get a QB that is going to run away from monster DL or run for the first down.  If he did I don't think he lasts long.
• Burrow got himself hurt last year.   I have no doubt that, in time, Fields and Lance will be effective NFL QBs.  Wilson will also be good if he can stay healthy.  I think with Wilson you overpay today for a player who looks pro ready against lesser competition and rather than a player that could project to be the QB we are looking for.  
• Let's say that we trade the 2 to the Texans (and hopefully not that much more) and the Texans use the 2 pick to take their QB of the future.  Do you think they are taking Zach Wilson after 4 years of Watson?  I don't.  I think they are taking Fields.  
• Maybe JD concludes that, like with Allen, Mahomes and Watson, you don't take project QBs 2.  Who do you take?  Trubisky?  Darnold?  Mayfield?   If Fields and Lance are smart enough to play NFL QB, and it appears that they are, you take them. 

[THE BARON]

35 minutes ago, JTJet said:

So you're one of those guys that believes this? 

Belief has nothing to do with it.  That is how it went down. 

[nycdan]

9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

If we're really making the list or reason's why not to draft him here's just a few I've heard around here...

1) He's Mormon

2) He's looks like a girl (I've actually heard him called a Fairy)

3) He's on medication

4) He wasn't a captain (lie)

5) He likes the Beach Boys

6) He's rich

7) He's soft

And that's just the start - None of those have ANYTHING to do with football or are entirely made up...Yet I've read them over and over again on JetNation.

 

So that might have been me, but in fairness...

      

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Sure this all sounds bad in theory but, pray tell, have you considered the solid right tackle we could draft at 23 in this scenario? 

Super unit, bro.  We could nickname them "the WALL St." - get it? 

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Darnold will have all day to throw and will still miss open receivers, all because Lafleur didn't call the good plays.  

But Joe Douglas will have saved a theoretical six first rounders that time

[neckdemon]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yup.  Certainly is hard for me, without any evidence in-hand.

Just becoming less enamored with J.D as a decision maker, but not selling him yet.  I hope to see his picks and his pending picks have a BIG season in 2021.  

lets just hope he doesn't blow the pick on a suspect qb and stick him on a crap team

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

once you guys get it through your head that the team itself has almost no talent and that no qb would have looked good then you will have made some progress. it's short-sighted to draft a qb who only had one good season, against teams that were jv college level at best, and expect that he will come here and do anything except bust and set the team back even further. we can all continue arguing this, but the fact of the matter is that, until this team has any semblance of being a legit nfl roster, any qb who is here will be sh*t and look like sh*t. our best wr was a slot guy who would be #3 on a lot of teams and #2 at best on most others, and after that we had no one who could be considered an actual starter. our oline was one of, if not the worst in the league, and the best player on it was an inconsistent rookie who is a much better run blocker than pass blocker. our rb was a 37 yr old with a million miles on his legs who ran behind the worst run blocking line in the league (1.1 yds before contact bad). the coach was the worst in the league, whose offense sucked everywhere he went except for one year when he had a hall of famer calling the plays and running the offense. there isn't a qb in the league that would have looked good on this team. drafting a suspect qb with the #2 pick is one of the dumbest things douglas can do with the pick

 

Joe Flacco looked fine.  And meanwhile Justin Herbert was the OROY with an even worse Offensive Line.

GTFO of here with this pile of excuses for a soft QB.  At some point, a bad QB is bad, and Sam Darnold is bad.  

[Mike135]

6 minutes ago, nycdan said:

So that might have been me, but in fairness...

      

First transgeneder NFL QB? 

Could be cool.

[neckdemon]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Joe Flacco looked fine.  And meanwhile Justin Herbert was the OROY with an even worse Offensive Line.

GTFO of here with this pile of excuses for a soft QB.  At some point, a bad QB is bad, and Sam Darnold is bad.  

lol joe flacco looked fine? he didn't win a single game, he averaged like 200 yds/game and like 15 points per game. i can't take you seriously if you think flacco looked just fine. the talent on the chargers is so much better than the jest that its laughable. i'm not even sure any of our guys, including crowder, gets on the field for them

[JTJet]

37 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Belief has nothing to do with it.  That is how it went down. 

If that's how it actually went down, it would have been a much bigger story than you claim, no matter how much the NFL tried to keep it quiet. Its 2021 and you think some rando twitter or insider had a scoop of that magnitude and nobody else ran with it? 

Give me 3 verified sources that supported that conspiracy theory and I will change my mind. 

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

once you guys get it through your head that the team itself has almost no talent and that no qb would have looked good then you will have made some progress. it's short-sighted to draft a qb who only had one good season, against teams that were jv college level at best, and expect that he will come here and do anything except bust and set the team back even further. we can all continue arguing this, but the fact of the matter is that, until this team has any semblance of being a legit nfl roster, any qb who is here will be sh*t and look like sh*t. our best wr was a slot guy who would be #3 on a lot of teams and #2 at best on most others, and after that we had no one who could be considered an actual starter. our oline was one of, if not the worst in the league, and the best player on it was an inconsistent rookie who is a much better run blocker than pass blocker. our rb was a 37 yr old with a million miles on his legs who ran behind the worst run blocking line in the league (1.1 yds before contact bad). the coach was the worst in the league, whose offense sucked everywhere he went except for one year when he had a hall of famer calling the plays and running the offense. there isn't a qb in the league that would have looked good on this team. drafting a suspect qb with the #2 pick is one of the dumbest things douglas can do with the pick

I would agree if you were bringing back the same team.  The fact is, you're not.  The whole point of having all this money in FA is to build a better team.  Last year was a throw away year - at some point you have to try and win.  In order to do that you need a QB.

The best thing a team like this can do is draft a QB at 2 and begin to build a team around him.  You can't expect that QB to be great his rookie year, but you need to support him.  What the Jets did to Darnold is disgraceful.  But rookie QB's can take their lumps early as long as you build the team that will support over the coming years.

NOW, if JD is going to draft a QB at 2 and then go on to take Defense at 23 or 34 (both need to be offense) or spend any significant resources on defense in free agency - then you are 100% correct - he'll bust and we'll be right back here in three years.

Bottom line, if you take a QB at 2 - the defense needs to fend for itself for a a couple of years (not forever) while you develop your young QB.

[maury77]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Again, the silliness of this point.

He sucks because he was better his junior year than he was in his sophomore year.

Apparently repeatedly watching the sex scenes in Eyes Wide Shut have affected your reading comprehension. I never said Wilson sucked, I said that your statement that he only had 1 bad game his sophomore season was inaccurate (which it is). Maybe the reason he was better his junior season was because he played a much softer schedule than he did in 2019, who knows. 

[maury77]

2 hours ago, JTJet said:

Yes. You cannot remotely understand the flow or stakes of the game from watching 10 second clips at a time. To say otherwise is foolish. 

That thought process is the definition of...

How a quarterback hands off a ball is an indicator of how he will play QB ..... I thought I had heard them all, but the landing strip never fails to disappoint ...... 

[JTJet]

12 minutes ago, maury77 said:

How a quarterback hands off a ball is an indicator of how he will play QB ..... I thought I had heard them all, but the landing strip never fails to disappoint ...... 

You're only further proving my point. Selectively ignoring the fact that I said it takes the whole context to evaluate someone, not just small snapshots. 

If you do your job, and it's time to get a raise or promotion, are you only reviewed off the work you have done? OR the work you have done, your potential to handle more, how you interact with your co workers, your punctuality, your demeanor, and your professionalism? 

You already know the answer to this. 

Watch the entire game. Start to finish. Feel how it went, and then we can start there. 

[GreekJet]

18 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 

No, but there are clearl and obvious imperfect prospects. Wilson as the #2 overall is downright laughable. So is Fields for that matter.

 

It’s really not laughable. Ultimately if Wilson proves to be the long term solution at the position he was worth the pick. 

[More Cowbell]

20 hours ago, oatmeal said:

I admit I agree with you imo Fields is QB #2 hands down. BUT IMO Zach is ahead of Sam.  Out of all these available options; Trey Lance, Sam Darnold, Mac Jones, Justin Fields and Zach Wilson, Darnold is the worst. 
 

I don’t think Sam will be better than any QB taken in the 1st round  

This makes no sense. Vince Young was an amazing college QB. How did he do in the Pros. There is no telling how any of these QB's turn out. 

[neckdemon]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I would agree if you were bringing back the same team.  The fact is, you're not.  The whole point of having all this money in FA is to build a better team.  Last year was a throw away year - at some point you have to try and win.  In order to do that you need a QB.

The best thing a team like this can do is draft a QB at 2 and begin to build a team around him.  You can't expect that QB to be great his rookie year, but you need to support him.  What the Jets did to Darnold is disgraceful.  But rookie QB's can take their lumps early as long as you build the team that will support over the coming years.

NOW, if JD is going to draft a QB at 2 and then go on to take Defense at 23 or 34 (both need to be offense) or spend any significant resources on defense in free agency - then you are 100% correct - he'll bust and we'll be right back here in three years.

Bottom line, if you take a QB at 2 - the defense needs to fend for itself for a a couple of years (not forever) while you develop your young QB.

This idea that a rookie qb can develop and eventually be just fine.....but that darnold has no chance because he's been permanently ruined somehow by being put in bad situations for his first couple years is silly.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, neckdemon said:

This idea that a rookie qb can develop and eventually be just fine.....but that darnold has no chance because he's been permanently ruined somehow by being put in bad situations for his first couple years is silly.

I agree with this.

I think the circumstances with Sam just dictate the team is better off starting fresh - just from a contract perspective alone.  

if you look at Sam and say he essentially has to start over and he kinda does. - if he has a mediocre year - where you're seeing some progress but not quite where you want him.

What do you do? Do you pay him? Do you let him walk?

I like Sam and I think he can absolutely find success in the league, I just don't think it makes sense for the Jets right now.

[neckdemon]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree with this.

I think the circumstances with Sam just dictate the team is better off starting fresh - just from a contract perspective alone.  

if you look at Sam and say he essentially has to start over and he kinda does. - if he has a mediocre year - where you're seeing some progress but not quite where you want him.

What do you do? Do you pay him? Do you let him walk?

I like Sam and I think he can absolutely find success in the league, I just don't think it makes sense for the Jets right now.

I dont see Douglad going Qb. I see him taking bap or trading down. Lawrence was only qb that was bap 

[GreekJet]

3 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

I dont see Douglad going Qb. I see him taking bap or trading down. Lawrence was only qb that was bap 

BAP doesn’t work when you have a void at QB. If JD doesn’t value the QB position above everything else he shouldn’t have an NFL GM job. 

[nycdan]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree with this.

I think the circumstances with Sam just dictate the team is better off starting fresh - just from a contract perspective alone.  

if you look at Sam and say he essentially has to start over and he kinda does. - if he has a mediocre year - where you're seeing some progress but not quite where you want him.

What do you do? Do you pay him? Do you let him walk?

I like Sam and I think he can absolutely find success in the league, I just don't think it makes sense for the Jets right now.

Imagine you're a team drafting late in the first round who needs a QB.  Let's suppose CHI at #20, or PIT at #24.

By your pick, the top-5 guys are gone (Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Lance, Jones).  So you are now looking at Trask or Newman.  You have to decide if the future of your franchise is better off with one of those guys, or with Sam Darnold.  So looming contract aside, who do you think has the most upside?

The Jets have the luxury of evaluating Sam vs. everyone not named Trevor Lawrence.  CHI does not.  To them, trading #20 for Sam (maybe getting a pick back) could be better than any of their alternatives.  Maybe it's overpaying a bit, but Sam comes with a lot less baggage and cost than Goff or Wentz, and might be perceived to have enough upside to make it worth the gamble for a team. 

And that's what enables the Jets to go Fields (or Wilson if you must) instead of Sam.  They may not have to sacrifice quite so much to do it.  Yes, they could draft Chase or Sewell, or trade down for even more picks.  But if they can flip Sam into a late 1st rounder and maybe come away with Vera-Tucker or Bateman instead, this path becomes more interesting to me.  This is the scenario where I think Sam is more valuable to another team than to the Jets.

 

[oatmeal]

27 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

This makes no sense. Vince Young was an amazing college QB. How did he do in the Pros. There is no telling how any of these QB's turn out. 

It’s called an opinion friend  ? 

[neckdemon]

12 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

BAP doesn’t work when you have a void at QB. If JD doesn’t value the QB position above everything else he shouldn’t have an NFL GM job. 

It does when you have decided the qb you have is better than the ones you can draft

[neckdemon]

11 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Imagine you're a team drafting late in the first round who needs a QB.  Let's suppose CHI at #20, or PIT at #24.

By your pick, the top-5 guys are gone (Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Lance, Jones).  So you are now looking at Trask or Newman.  You have to decide if the future of your franchise is better off with one of those guys, or with Sam Darnold.  So looming contract aside, who do you think has the most upside?

The Jets have the luxury of evaluating Sam vs. everyone not named Trevor Lawrence.  CHI does not.  To them, trading #20 for Sam (maybe getting a pick back) could be better than any of their alternatives.  Maybe it's overpaying a bit, but Sam comes with a lot less baggage and cost than Goff or Wentz, and might be perceived to have enough upside to make it worth the gamble for a team. 

And that's what enables the Jets to go Fields (or Wilson if you must) instead of Sam.  They may not have to sacrifice quite so much to do it.  Yes, they could draft Chase or Sewell, or trade down for even more picks.  But if they can flip Sam into a late 1st rounder and maybe come away with Vera-Tucker or Bateman instead, this path becomes more interesting to me.  This is the scenario where I think Sam is more valuable to another team than to the Jets.

 

First, no one is trading a 1st rounder for Darnold. Especially not if the jets take a qb at 2. They wont have any leverage in negotiations since they'll basically need to trade darnold at that point. 

Second, its been reported that a team that called about darnold got the strong impression that he wont be dealt.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

3 hours ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Well that seals it

We have another convert!

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

15 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

First, no one is trading a 1st rounder for Darnold. Especially not if the jets take a qb at 2. They wont have any leverage in negotiations since they'll basically need to trade darnold at that point. 

Second, its been reported that a team that called about darnold got the strong impression that he wont be dealt.

May I ask you, what you do for a living? Would you put your career on the line gambling on your most inept co-worker/employee?

It's all fun and games until little Jimmy is loading the truck because "Guess what kids, we're moving again. You'll find friends in your new school, I promise!"