Zach Wilson is a Bum!

[oatmeal]

On 3/2/2021 at 7:18 PM, neckdemon said:

I can play the what if game. What if you trade Darnold and draft Wilson and then Wilson sucks?? Meanwhile Darnold lights it up and leads his new team to the championships?? Hiw do you explain to ownership that you traded your FQB, wasted the #2 pick on a bust and sent the team back a couple more years??

You do know what odds are and how they work right?

The odds are infinitely higher of one or more of those 1st round QBs being studs than it is that Darnold will have a 4th season magical turnaround. 

[FidelioJet]

14 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Injuries are the only real concern for me of Wilson.  I now believe he would be a fine pick.  

I am defiantly less concerned with his past injuries than most.  Contrary to popular belief he wasn't injury prone in college - And is freshman year he did seem to play through the sore shoulder from the high school injury- so he seems to be tough....

But I agree, my big concern with him is his size - he does look very thin with a smallish frame.

I really hope Saleh has him on a hard core training program this summer and he can put on 10 pounds - solidify his frame.

[Dunnie]

I have always preferred Fields. 
 

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[Dunnie]

This is my #1 concern with Wilson. Without the combine, it's going to be tough to get official height and weight on him. But he does look small and slight. And the past shoulder injuries are definitely an issue.
Plus, and this is a very personal view, he runs funny. I'm sorry, but he does. Kind up upright while leaning back, sort of like a rooster. It just looks weird. So I'm reluctant to pick him just because of that.

You ever seen Eric Dickerson ... that dude ran upright too

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[mrcoops]

16 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

You ever seen Eric Dickerson ... that dude ran upright too
 

 

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Yeah, but he looked good doing it.  Ditto Michael Johnson.

Wilson's running style just looks weird to me - I dunno why.

[Dunnie]

Yeah, but he looked good doing it.  Ditto Michael Johnson.
Wilson's running style just looks weird to me - I dunno why.

I always thought Dicjkerson looked a bit awkward cause he was so diff than the other backs ... my point was ... dickerson one of the greatest ever ... was different.

But I know what you mean.

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[Bruce Harper]

On 3/1/2021 at 7:59 PM, manuvsteal said:

I'm sure some of you will read this and immediately think I don't know what I'm talking about.  This post isn't meant for you. You are the sheep. This post is meant for those that don't follow the advice of robo-dialers and and take the first offer from used car salesmen.

Zach WIlson is being bandied about as the second best quarterback behind Trevor Lawrence. What has he done to get this praise? I'll tell you.  He was the 70th rated passer in a field of 130 Quarterbacks.  He threw a whopping 62% against slightly better than garbage opponents.  Well what about his magic arm?  He threw 11 touchdowns to 9 interceptions.  What #2 pick in the draft has an almost 1 to 1 TD to INT ratio?

For those of you scratching your heads, I'm not talking about 2020 Zach Wilson. I'm talking about 2019 Zach Wilson. That's the only other year that he started a full slate.  In 2020 he threw 33 TD's, completed 73% of his passes and everyone forgot about who he was the year before.  The only thing that changed between 2020 and 2019 is the running game was better. BYU had a 4 yard per carry running back by committee in 2019.  BYU had a 5.5 yard per carry with a primary back the following year.  Why does this matter?  BYU ran the ball 465 times in 2019, and 423 times in 2020.  By comparison they threw it 468 times and 376 times in 2019 and 2020 respectively.  They went as their running game went, and the passing game prospered from that. Zach Wilson prospered from that.  Zach Wilson didn't put the team on his shoulders and carry them. The BYU running game put Zach Wilson on it's back and carried him.

This year's draft Wilson is being overhyped because he has a strong arm, and he throws a nice spiral.  So did Mitch Trubisky (the last one year wonder).  Josh Rosen had a nice arm, and threw pretty passes, and he is on his third team.  Zach Wilson is of that ilk.  Anyone clamoring for the Jets to draft him may as well watch his 2019 film (when you all didn't know his name), because that is more indicative of who he is than 2020 while BYU beat up on some bum teams, and folded to Coastal Carolina, the only ranked team they played.  

The sheep will still say "We need Zach WIlson!". That's fine.  I'm counting on the fact that Joe Douglas is not a sheep, and he won't hitch his wagon to the latest one year wonder to become popular just before the draft.  

So, just so I understand, when he played bad that was the real him. But when he more recently played ridiculously well, don't believe your lyin' eyes, he really stinks.

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I am defiantly less concerned with his past injuries than most.  Contrary to popular belief he wasn't injury prone in college - And is freshman year he did seem to play through the sore shoulder from the high school injury- so he seems to be tough....

But I agree, my big concern with him is his size - he does look very thin with a smallish frame.

I really hope Saleh has him on a hard core training program this summer and he can put on 10 pounds - solidify his frame.

Simms said something interesting yesterday. He said that Wilson has a slightly smaller frame than he would prefer but says the most important physical trait for a QB is his legs and butt and Wilson is perfect in that area. Thinks he will measure around 6'2 3/4 or something like that.  He does not have an injury history especially from contact in games (just the hand) and in fact is extremely clean on the areas of concern like soft tissues, ankles etc... The shoulders were not so much an injury as wear and tear of throwing the ball too much too young and at a speed his body could support. There were not labral tears from a dislocation. Brees has played his entire career after a horrific dislocation and labral tear. Wilson's procedures are like a scratch. And lots of QBs got small procedures on their labrums. Even Trevor is getting the same procedure this offseason, on his non throwing shoulder. Injuries are a binary decision for NFL teams either the medical will say yes or no so it is really a non factor.

[FidelioJet]

55 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Simms said something interesting yesterday. He said that Wilson has a slightly smaller frame than he would prefer but says the most important physical trait for a QB is his legs and butt and Wilson is perfect in that area. Thinks he will measure around 6'2 3/4 or something like that.  He does not have an injury history especially from contact in games (just the hand) and in fact is extremely clean on the areas of concern like soft tissues, ankles etc... The shoulders were not so much an injury as wear and tear of throwing the ball too much too young and at a speed his body could support. There were not labral tears from a dislocation. Brees has played his entire career after a horrific dislocation and labral tear. Wilson's procedures are like a scratch. And lots of QBs got small procedures on their labrums. Even Trevor is getting the same procedure this offseason, on his non throwing shoulder. Injuries are a binary decision for NFL teams either the medical will say yes or no so it is really a non factor.

Thanks for this.  Makes me feel much better about him. 

I’m just really high on him and that frame was worrisome but what you stated makes sense.  

[football guy]

People have their opinions about how they rank QB prospects, but never understood why it always has to be "X is a generational prospect" or "Y is a bum"... it's so illogical. 

In my opinion, Zach Wilson is probably the 5th/6th best QB prospect in the past 10 years and very clearly the 2nd best QB in this draft class (I don't think its close). I would rank him below Andrew Luck, Trevor Lawrence, Robert Griffin, Sam Darnold, and Cam Newton. Based on what I read and what I hear, most people who are paid to scout players believe he's the 2nd best QB prospect in this class. The biggest concerns with Wilson are his injury history and his adjustment to the NFL from BYU, which promoted a lot of clean pockets and freedom to make "YOLO" throws that he won't get away with in the NFL. Stats are never - and I mean never - the answer. Stats/analytics are merely a means of quantifying production on a surface level, but if teams use them as the base of their evaluations they would all get fired. What they help do is confirm what you see on tape, and if it doesn't, then a scouts job is to find out "why". 

On tape, he reminds people of a taller, slightly less fast version of Kyler Murray but even more advanced as a deep-ball passer. He displays the type of playing style and instincts that we've come to see out of Aaron Rodgers/Patrick Mahomes with slightly less RPMs on his throws. His frame/athletic profile is reminiscent of Deshaun Watson (both a lean 6'2", 215; Watson ran a 4.66 at the combine after running a 4.89 at Nike's high school recruiting camp, Wilson ran a 4.84 at the same camp) and they too have some similarities in their game... 

Wilson is a fabulous prospect. There's a lot to like about his game. He's my favorite in this class. and I believe he'll have a better career than Trevor Lawrence, mainly because I think he will land in a better situation. You can acknowledge the aspects that make him a great prospect while wanting to go a different direction... he doesn't have to be a "bum" because of it. 

[Philc1]

7 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Actually. I didn’t. Those injuries happened in high school.  He got hurt in high school. 
 

And that’s relevant how?

 

And btw the torn labrum in Wilson’s throwing shoulder he had to have surgery on while in college.  The other shoulder still has a labrum issue he himself has said will eventually need surgery

[Philc1]

7 hours ago, mrcoops said:

This is my #1 concern with Wilson. Without the combine, it's going to be tough to get official height and weight on him. But he does look small and slight. And the past shoulder injuries are definitely an issue.

Plus, and this is a very personal view, he runs funny. I'm sorry, but he does. Kind up upright while leaning back, sort of like a rooster. It just looks weird. So I'm reluctant to pick him just because of that.

Maybe Wilson is better than Pat Mahomes.  But knowing the Jets horrific history with drafting players who were already injury prone in college I mean I dunno I guess we have a lot of younger Jets fans here who weren’t around for Dewayne Robertson and Dee Milliner

[mrcoops]

4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Maybe Wilson is better than Pat Mahomes.  But knowing the Jets horrific history with drafting players who were already injury prone in college I mean I dunno I guess we have a lot of younger Jets fans here who weren’t around for Dewayne Robertson and Dee Milliner

And Blair Thomas.  An RB with a reconstructed knee at #2 overall.  Sheesh.

[Philc1]

Just now, mrcoops said:

And Blair Thomas.  An RB with a reconstructed knee at #2 overall.  Sheesh.

And now let’s pass on two lock future all pros in Sewell and Pitts for a Qb who already has had to have major surgery on his throwing shoulder

 

This is going to end really well

[FidelioJet]

35 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

And that’s relevant how?

 

And btw the torn labrum in Wilson’s throwing shoulder he had to have surgery on while in college.  The other shoulder still has a labrum issue he himself has said will eventually need surgery

He didn't have to have it, he chose to.  But that's not really the point.

The point is you're talking about somebody being injury prone...if you go through 3 years of starting D1 college football and only hurt your thumb, you can't exactly call someone injury prone.

You can want that to be the case but it simply isn't.  btw..from everything I heard about that shoulder injury is it wasn't even him getting "hurt" it was wear and tear for throwing so hard at a young age.  Essentially wasn't managed properly.  He's not a guy that "breaks" he's not soft.  Hasn't had a single issue with either shoulder since.

I get that he's thin and that certainly worries me too - but I just don't think he's injury prone...I think it's very hard to make that argument when you look at the facts.

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

He didn't have to have it, he chose to.  But that's not really the point.

The point is you're talking about somebody being injury prone...if you go through 3 years of starting D1 college football and only hurt your thumb, you can't exactly call someone injury prone.

You can want that to be the case but it simply isn't.  btw..from everything I heard about that shoulder injury is it wasn't even him getting "hurt" it was wear and tear for throwing so hard at a young age.  Essentially wasn't managed properly.  He's not a guy that "breaks" he's not soft.  Hasn't had a single issue with either shoulder since.

I get that he's thin and that certainly worries me too - but I just don't think he's injury prone...I think it's very hard to make that argument when you look at the facts.

He’s injury prone.  You cannot argue your way around that.  
 

Oh and the only time Wilson faced a real defense last year he lost went 19-30 passing with 1 TD 1 INT.  

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

He’s injury prone.  You cannot argue your way around that.  
 

Oh and the only time Wilson faced a real defense last year he lost went 19-30 passing with 1 TD 1 INT.  

You know what.  As each day passes it's becoming clearer and clearer that he's going to be our next QB.

I just hope you can come around to start liking the kid and pulling for him.   It seems your mind is made up - that he's injury prone and will be a colossal failure - so I'm not going to bother trying to do it anymore.  

I just hope once he's a Jet you can get on board.

 

btw. - TL just had the same operation Wilson had....

[BroadwayRay]

4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

He’s injury prone.  You cannot argue your way around that.  
 

Oh and the only time Wilson faced a real defense last year he lost went 19-30 passing with 1 TD 1 INT.  

The interception was on a Hail Mary at the end of the first half and, as for the rest of the game, he played well and almost pulled off a miracle comeback. You should try watching the game, although I know you won't.

Trevor Lawrence tore a shoulder labrum. Penei Sewell also tore a shoulder labrum. Sewell also was out two months in 2018 with an ankle injury. And he wears two knee braces. Is he injury prone? By the way, isn't he also the guy you want the Jets to draft at #2?

 

[Bruce Harper]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

And now let’s pass on two lock future all pros in Sewell and Pitts for a Qb who already has had to have major surgery on his throwing shoulder

 

This is going to end really well

Not sure a labrum is a major surgery.  But the guy throws ropes and perfect spirals every time.  Not much evidence of shoulder problems.

[chirorob]

2 hours ago, mrcoops said:

And Blair Thomas.  An RB with a reconstructed knee at #2 overall.  Sheesh.

He was a bust, but it had nothing to do with his knee.

[Dunnie]

And Blair Thomas.  An RB with a reconstructed knee at #2 overall.  Sheesh.

Had zero to do with his trajectory in the Pros.

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[Snell41]

All these comparisons to Mahomes with less of an arm. Mahomes is the only dude on the planet that can play like Mahomes specifically because of his arm. He has a cannon. He can throw a ball on a frozen rope from any arm angle. Without his arm strength to fire a ball into tight spaces he’s just throwing picks all over the place.


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[Philc1]

14 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

You know what.  As each day passes it's becoming clearer and clearer that he's going to be our next QB.

I just hope you can come around to start liking the kid and pulling for him.   It seems your mind is made up - that he's injury prone and will be a colossal failure - so I'm not going to bother trying to do it anymore.  

I just hope once he's a Jet you can get on board.

 

btw. - TL just had the same operation Wilson had....

On his non-throwing shoulder

[Philc1]

7 hours ago, Snell41 said:

All these comparisons to Mahomes with less of an arm. Mahomes is the only dude on the planet that can play like Mahomes specifically because of his arm. He has a cannon. He can throw a ball on a frozen rope from any arm angle. Without his arm strength to fire a ball into tight spaces he’s just throwing picks all over the place.


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This is straight up nonsense.  Wilson had trouble with Coastal Carolina but I gotta hear people wack off to his throws facing Rapid City State

[JustInFudge]

Good thread, Zach Wilson sucks and is a bum.  Total fraud.  

[T0mShane]

I feel like it is risky to draft a quarterback who has never faced a pass rush, but what do I know

[kdels62]

26 minutes ago, JiF said:

Good thread, Zach Wilson sucks and is a bum.  Total fraud.  

You woke up in rare form 

[FidelioJet]

53 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I feel like it is risky to draft a quarterback who has never faced a pass rush, but what do I know

I agree.  I wouldn't touch Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields.

[T0mShane]

24 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree.  I wouldn't touch Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields.

^Hasn’t seen a BYU game since Ty Detmer’s Heisman campaign. 

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

^Hasn’t seen a BYU game since Ty Detmer’s Heisman campaign. 

[T0mShane]

37 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Same guy. Look who’s missing:

 

[FidelioJet]

29 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Same guy. Look who’s missing:

 

 

Well, one is quoting fact and one is an opinion.  The fact is what I'm pointing to...

Just that it's another knock on Wilson that has proven to be proven false and/or a lie....

It's kinda comical at this point.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Well, one is quoting fact and one is an opinion.  The fact is what I'm pointing to...

Just that it's another knock on Wilson that has proven to be proven false and/or a lie....

It's kinda comical at this point.

I don’t believe those are facts, either. Where did he get those numbers? 

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t believe those are facts, either. Where did he get those numbers? 

That's where it's gone with the Wilson hate at this point.

You're down to not believing facts as a last hope.

Seriously, I have no idea who Christian Williams is - Don't know if it's true, but watching Fields and Wilson and it seems about right.  They both get a ton of time.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

That's where it's gone with the Wilson hate at this point.

You're down to not believing facts as a last hope.

Seriously, I have no idea who Christian Williams is - Don't know if it's true, but watching Fields and Wilson and it seems about right.  They both get a ton of time.

All I am asking is where did he get his numbers. 75% of his feed is him retweeting rando people naming the “most famous person from [their] hometown”