Keeping Darnold and the unspoken plight of a Jets Fan--

[Paradis]

Maybe i'm out in the left field with this one... but the biggest reason why I shed my Darnold love like a paper boat down a storm drain was "I don't want to feel divided anymore"

Of course i would like to see Darnold rehabbed by the new Regime, trade back and reap the rewards of copious Draft picks. Of course it would be nice to just believe in him again... 

but is that really possible?

Is it possible to watch him again not feel like we're "treading water"? Genuine question for you guys. 

Adam Gase was a nightmare. But even when there was (brief at best) moments of positivity, it's still puts the fan in a predicament of getting behind those moments. I'm tired of feeling divided about what's best for the Jets. I don't want to watch a "semi-improved" Darnold and feel challenge to buy-in on a weekly basis - to have wrestle with the reality of can Darnold keep it up, is this going to last, etc... It's not much different that a bad relationship, where at some point - you ask what's best in the long run. 

I've come to terms with the separation and want to start 2021 with nothing but hopeful optimism. I think that's with Fields, maybe some of you feel that's Wilson or Watson - whatever... but i don't want to watch the Jets on eggshells anymore

 

[Beerfish]

I'd like to see Darnold with half assed team talent and a coach who is not the worst in the league.

The vast majority of fans and a good chance the Jets have pitched him off the boat already.

What I do not want is in the rush to bury Darnold to run right into another mistake.

Trying for Watson is a good move over paying for him is a huge error.

drafting a QB at #2 we are not sure about is another huge mistake.

Wilson and Fields both have nice qualities but both have questions as well.

I'm in no rush to find the next QB, not until we have upped the talent of this team in a bunch of areas.

[dcJet]

Sam has never been good. 

At least with Wentz, you have hope that Wentz can regain his form. Sam is different, we are hoping he can ascend not regain.

 

[nycdan]

8 hours ago, Paradis said:

Maybe i'm out in the left field with this one... but the biggest reason why I shed my Darnold love like a paper boat down a storm was "I don't want to feel divided anymore"

Of course i would like to see Darnold rehabbed by the new Regime, trade back and reap the rewards of copious Draft picks. Of course it would be nice to just believe in him again... 

but is that really possible?

Is it possible to watch him again not feel like we're "treading water"? Genuine question for you guys. 

Adam Gase was a nightmare. But even when there was (brief at best) moments of positivity, it's still puts the fan in a predicament of getting behind those moments. I'm tired of feeling divided about what's best for the Jets. I don't want to watch a "semi-improved" Darnold and feel challenge to buy-in on a weekly basis - to have wrestle with the reality of can Darnold keep it up, is this going to last, etc... It's not much different that a bad relationship, where at some point - you ask what's best in the long run. 

I've come to terms with the separation and want to start 2021 with nothing but hopeful optimism. I think that's with Fields, maybe some of you feel that's Wilson or Watson - whatever... but i don't want to watch the Jets on eggshells anymore

 

I get it.  I think I'd prefer Watson if reasonable, or Fields.  But if we do go Darnold, I can find it in me to be hopeful.

I truly think that Gase was SO utterly awful at game-planning that Darnold could very possibly be a mid-ranked QB next year just for having better talent and better coaches around him.  No, I'm not high.  I truly believe that if you extrapolate from his rookie year, and give him the kind of support that most successful QBs get, he can be much better.  

I've seen people say how rare it is, but I don't think it really is.  Here are a few random examples:

Derek Carr had around a 60% completion % his first four seasons.  Then Gruden shows up, changes everything, and Carr has since then thrown at about a 69% completion rate since.  That is a massive step up.  In his case, it didn't translate to much in terms of wins, but he became a much more effective QB, actually throwing to less talented receivers in 2018 vs. 2017.

Alex Smith was a JAG in SF.  60% Completion rate for 7 seasons.  Then in his last year, he hit 70% and went to KC and maintained a 66% rate for a few more years while also cutting his INT rate in half.  And there are more.  You can look at Steve Young, Randall Cunningham and Rich Gannon to name a few if you are willing to go back a few years.  

Now these names aren't intended to wow you.  They are intended to point out that positive changes around a QB can create positive change from the QB.  If we put real talent around Sam over this offseason, and he improves (despite the clamoring certainty from some here that it's impossible), then we could be pretty darned happy this time next year.  Again, it's not necessarily what I think we *should* do, but I'm prepared for it and will hope it makes fools out of the naysayers because that would be a double win

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

I always chuckle when I see the 'boogie boarder' insult thrown his way. It genuinely makes me laugh. Whether you see it as an analogy; every other quarterback in this league is surfing, Sammy is on his stomach catchin' four footers in-between juice boxes. Or it's just one of those, 'He doesn't even have the confidence to stand up. He's a no leader, he's a boogie boarder'. 

However you look at it, it's objectively funny.

But...

Sam Darnold has been subject to some of the worst coaching, some of the worst offensive line play and some of the most demoralizing set of receiving options in the sport... all at once. He's been in this situation for three years. His first three years as a pro.

You can say "Herbert had a bad o-line." But I'd bet all of us here would take Lynn over Gase in a second, and I'll take the Chargers skill position players over the smattering of 'ellios pizza' type skill position players we had last year.

This team needs talent everywhere. We've got 80 mil in cap space, the 2nd, 23rd and 34th overall picks and a sense of genuine optimism about the new coaching staff. 

Is it so wrong to give this 24 year old kid one more year, expend those resources improving the team and see what happens?

The worst case scenario is that he really is a boogie boarder, and we're sitting here a year from now, with two (maybe even three) firsts trying to find the next prospect who can surf. 

But at least we've greatly improved the rest of the team for the next guy if it doesn't work out. 

You can start with this guy:

[Dcat]

49 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Maybe i'm out in the left field with this one... but the biggest reason why I shed my Darnold love like a paper boat down a storm was "I don't want to feel divided anymore"

Of course i would like to see Darnold rehabbed by the new Regime, trade back and reap the rewards of copious Draft picks. Of course it would be nice to just believe in him again... 

but is that really possible?

Is it possible to watch him again not feel like we're "treading water"? Genuine question for you guys. 

Adam Gase was a nightmare. But even when there was (brief at best) moments of positivity, it's still puts the fan in a predicament of getting behind those moments. I'm tired of feeling divided about what's best for the Jets. I don't want to watch a "semi-improved" Darnold and feel challenge to buy-in on a weekly basis - to have wrestle with the reality of can Darnold keep it up, is this going to last, etc... It's not much different that a bad relationship, where at some point - you ask what's best in the long run. 

I've come to terms with the separation and want to start 2021 with nothing but hopeful optimism. I think that's with Fields, maybe some of you feel that's Wilson or Watson - whatever... but i don't want to watch the Jets on eggshells anymore

 

JMO but Darnold even with competent coaching would only be marginally better with "career backup" mediocrity as the ceiling.   I'd rather see Watson.  I'd rather see Fields.  I don't know what to make of Zach.  Truly no clue how he will pan out in NFL.  Have my doubts about him and Fields.

[Beerfish]

Five years from now it would not surprise me at all if a guy like Mac Jones or the big unknown, Lance were the top Qbs from this draft, and that includes Lawrence.

[oatmeal]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

I'd like to see Darnold with half assed team talent and a coach who is not the worst in the league.

The vast majority of fans and a good chance the Jets have pitched him off the boat already.

What I do not want is in the rush to bury Darnold to run right into another mistake.

Trying for Watson is a good move over paying for him is a huge error.

drafting a QB at #2 we are not sure about is another huge mistake.

Wilson and Fields both have nice qualities but both have questions as well.

I'm in no rush to find the next QB, not until we have upped the talent of this team in a bunch of areas.

So many parrot this but Darnold is a known and that’s the literal worst starting QB in the NFL since entering the league. All those rookies should look appealing according to this logic 

[Beerfish]

13 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

So many parrot this but Darnold is a known and that’s the literal worst starting QB in the NFL since entering the league. All those rookies should look appealing according to this logic 

I parrot it because it is true, has been bad? Yes, will he always be bad?  Maybe.

He showed a smidgen of promise in year one and then Gase took over, literally the worst coach and worst offensive coach in the league and a worse offense than half the college teams out there.

Add to that a team that invested nothing on offense for a decade and you end up with a total sh*t show for a young QB.

Literally any QB is going to look better next year, including Darnold because we have dumped such a joke of a coach.

I have no problem sticking with Darnold for a year, dumping via trade and bringing  in a place holder QB.

If we can get Watson cheap enough for sure go for it. 

This team needs talent every where.

 

[DetroitRed]

No reason to be divided.  This decision is not up to us.  Anybody think the coach and the GM should not make the call?  Then good.  Let’s sit back and support the decision of the football men.  We don’t have to be divided by message board maniacs 

[oatmeal]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

I parrot it because it is true, has been bad? Yes, will he always be bad?  Maybe.

He showed a smidgen of promise in year one and then Gase took over, literally the worst coach and worst offensive coach in the league and a worse offense than half the college teams out there.

Add to that a team that invested nothing on offense for a decade and you end up with a total sh*t show for a young QB.

Literally any QB is going to look better next year, including Darnold because we have dumped such a joke of a coach.

I have no problem sticking with Darnold for a year, dumping via trade and bringing  in a place holder QB.

If we can get Watson cheap enough for sure go for it. 

This team needs talent every where.

 

Christ reading this is like the adults in Charlie Brown talking, mental gymnastics at its finest ???‍♂️
 

? 

[Bronx]

We draft a QB, let the rookie compete for the starting job against Sam. If Sam is lights out, red shirt or trade the rookie. The team will have plenty time to truly evaluate the QB situation, especially considering the current protocols. 

[bitonti]

Of all the options, Sam at 5 mil cash is the cheapest therefore that's what they are going to do 

Watson at 30 million plus per year is the most expensive and therefore the least likely 

Yes its just that simple 

[Greenbloodblitz]

From what I've been hearing and reading about this "quarterback-friendly system"  the new staff will be implementing, it won't make much difference if it's Sam, Deshawn, Zach Wilson or Ryan Fitzpatrick LOL!

I think at this point it's just a matter of whether or not Joe Douglas can come up with a plan for Sam's next contract? What's he worth? I don't think there would be much of a difference between him and Zach Wilson.

Taking a step back we all know Sam has had some seriously bad luck since he's come into the league.

What has me befuddled is that when Adam Gase got here, he praised Darnold's natural talent. He talked up the quarterback's ability to make very difficult throws with ease, and his uncanny knack for off schedule plays.. right?

However Gases Playbook was rigid and precise. It didn't allow for movement or improvisation by the modern NFL quarterback. I don't think Gase taught Sam Darnold anything! 

In his oversight I think the former HC really did believe in Darnold but he was just an over-thinker.. and he assumed that Sam's natural Talent would prevail in his system and it didn't.

I have no idea when it was but I saw a Sabo piece explaining the offense, and the routes the WRs were running made what the QB was seeing ridiculously complex.

I think Sam would do just fine and Shanahan's offense I also think he'd do fine in Kansas City cuz he's that type of player he's a fun Streetball kind of QB.

So in closing Adam Gase should have made his play-calling more practical and less precise and trying to be perfect. Sam would have had more success.

The future of the current QB of the New York Jets comes down to whether or not the GM believes he's worth another contract.

IMO that's all it really comes down to. Sam is still young, but is he that much better than Fields or Wilson to justify the big money deal he has coming?

[NYJ1]

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

Maybe i'm out in the left field with this one... but the biggest reason why I shed my Darnold love like a paper boat down a storm was "I don't want to feel divided anymore"

Of course i would like to see Darnold rehabbed by the new Regime, trade back and reap the rewards of copious Draft picks. Of course it would be nice to just believe in him again... 

but is that really possible?

Is it possible to watch him again not feel like we're "treading water"? Genuine question for you guys. 

Adam Gase was a nightmare. But even when there was (brief at best) moments of positivity, it's still puts the fan in a predicament of getting behind those moments. I'm tired of feeling divided about what's best for the Jets. I don't want to watch a "semi-improved" Darnold and feel challenge to buy-in on a weekly basis - to have wrestle with the reality of can Darnold keep it up, is this going to last, etc... It's not much different that a bad relationship, where at some point - you ask what's best in the long run. 

I've come to terms with the separation and want to start 2021 with nothing but hopeful optimism. I think that's with Fields, maybe some of you feel that's Wilson or Watson - whatever... but i don't want to watch the Jets on eggshells anymore

 

Oh wo is you! Perhaps you should go see Mommy and she can give you some cookies, milk, and a kiss to make you feel better?

[Jetluv58]

We need ... Wilson. 

[NYDreamer]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Five years from now it would not surprise me at all if a guy like Mac Jones or the big unknown, Lance were the top Qbs from this draft, and that includes Lawrence.

And that's how I compare it to Darnold.  Mac Jones and Trey Lance will most likely be drafted middle of the first or in Jones case somewhere in the 20's.  That means these QB's are going to ideal situations with teams that have significantly more talent that took them into the playoff is.  Mahomms slid down draft boards and KC jumped up 10 spots to draft him and he became what he was.  We cannot say he would have had the same success with the Jets or Watson respectively at that point on the roster.  Peyton Manning was awful his first year, but the team provided him with Edgar James and Marvin Harrison then other offensive pieces around him.

So I keep the idea alive that Sam who showed promise in Rookie year with Bowles and Jeremy Bates..can be a successful QB with the improvement of roster around him.  He has the temperament to do well in NY.  Offensive Line and playmakers will do a lot for any QB's confidence.

[long time suffering Jets f]

The only positive to me if we keep Darnold is we get to use the #2 pick to draft a premier OL or WR. More likely JD will trade down for more draft capital which I can live with. Other than that I keep envisioning a dismal 3-13 season and we finally put Darnold out of his misery when we trade him for a 4th rounder.

[LIJetsFan]

I think the real dilemma the FO faces is that they are "stuck" with the #2 pick.  What the hell do that do with it.  Trade down would be nice but is there really a team willing to trade up to the crappy #2 spot?   

So Take LT; I don't think so.

Take WR might be the best of the poor choices and the least overreach for the spot.  

Needles to say, all these QBs are an overreach.

 

Bottom line, I'll be sitting at my TV on draft day  I pray some team is hungry enough for an LT to help us out.      

[More Cowbell]

6 hours ago, dcJet said:

Sam has never been good. 

At least with Wentz, you have hope that Wentz can regain his form. Sam is different, we are hoping he can ascend not regain.

 

I get it that Sam has not played well, as a matter of fact he is one of the few NFL QB's to get worse since his rookie year but I am sick of reading posts like this. Wentz? WTF? He is a major injury threat and is not imo a long term solution. If you want a QB take one in the draft or trade for Watson but don't  take another teams cast off. There is a reason Philly is moving on from him and it isn't  his age. 

[Gangrene]

5 hours ago, oatmeal said:

So many parrot this but Darnold is a known and that’s the literal worst starting QB in the NFL since entering the league. All those rookies should look appealing according to this logic 

You are the first parrot among all the parrots. We come to the holy church of Oatmeal every day and hear the same sermon, "btw did you know Sam Darnold sucks?" 

 

[68JET11]

I suspect the decision on what to do with Sam will come after LaFleur and company sit down with Sam and go over the offense. If I'm them, I don't watch him do anything first thing. I sit him in the classroom before I even show him the offensive play book and ask him to call out protections, from different teams and offenses. To me that will tell me how much he truly understands the game. If he can show me (LaFleur) that is, that he can read them and identify hot reads, blitzers, etc... then I go on to the next phase which would be field work. After that evaluation of Sam, then I make my evaluation to Saleh, and JD.

That's all I want to know is happening before they make a decision on Sam. If he passes, then I'm cool with sticking with him, if not, then it's time to trade or draft someone else. End of debate.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

Of all the options, Sam at 5 mil cash is the cheapest therefore that's what they are going to do 

Watson at 30 million plus per year is the most expensive and therefore the least likely 

Yes its just that simple 

Throw my Jet fandom off a bridge, you say?

[Augustiniak]

6 hours ago, Dcat said:

JMO but Darnold even with competent coaching would only be marginally better with "career backup" mediocrity as the ceiling.   I'd rather see Watson.  I'd rather see Fields.  I don't know what to make of Zach.  Truly no clue how he will pan out in NFL.  Have my doubts about him and Fields.

Once you accept what darnold is, the decision and expectations are easier.  How many more years of him playing like this will it take for all these people from kiper to douglas to finally say that he’s just not that good and that he was way overdrafted?  This is why parcells always wanted to draft qbs with 4 yrs of tape in college, because it was a credible sample for him to understand what he was getting.  Well, we have that with darnold in the nfl.  Sure he’s going to improve with better talent, who wouldn’t?  

They may keep darnold and trade back and do a good job of restocking the team, but even if they do, and darnold ‘wins’ a bs competition in training camp, i don’t think he’s on the jets beyond 2021.  Darnold is going to do what he’s done, show flashes but come up short in big moments and turn it over too much and miss too many deep passes when guys have a step or two.  The new offense can minimize some of his weaknesses like they did with garropolo but at least he was a more accurate qb to begin with.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

Darnold + whatever pick you are passing up to keep him + his proven record of being a turnover machine in both college and the pros + the prospect of him being marginally better and now facing the dilemma of what to do with him regarding the fifth year option + the unknowns of next years QB crop + having to start with a rookie QB in 2022 drafted in God knows what draft position + the absolute distaste any free agent with half a brain and any semblance of talent would have for coming here EQUALS

Absolutely no sense to keep Sam Darnold. Absolutely none. It's third grade mathematics that only the truly faithful cannot figure out. The chance of upside is so tiny and the downside is so large.

I'd be done with this franchise. I've already been a party to being a laughingstock for forty years. Not a day more. Not when it's this simple. This is like drafting two safeties back to back at the top of a draft. You can talk yourself into anything making sense if you want it bad enough.

[More Cowbell]

6 hours ago, Dcat said:

JMO but Darnold even with competent coaching would only be marginally better with "career backup" mediocrity as the ceiling.   I'd rather see Watson.  I'd rather see Fields.  I don't know what to make of Zach.  Truly no clue how he will pan out in NFL.  Have my doubts about him and Fields.

I agree fully with what is said here at the end about the prospects except I would  have said Wilson scares the ?out of me. 

As far as Sam, it is rare to see a turnaround  of the magnitude  we would need from him but is also rare to see a rookie QB put in the situation for his first 3 seasons Darnold was. I mean the Jets have made some really poor decisions in the past but it almost seemed like since they drafted Sam, they were trying to reach new levels of ineptitude.  For that reason we don't  know what Sam is and I hate this team for that. For that reason, we can't  stand pat with Sam, we have to move on from him. There is just too much risk associated with him.

[oatmeal]

15 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

You are the first parrot among all the parrots. We come to the holy church of Oatmeal every day and hear the same sermon, "btw did you know Sam Darnold sucks?" 

 

“Why let facts into our Darnold fantasy world?”

 

.... Got it ?

[jetophile]

16 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Sorry thought I was hitting save and not adding the post again.

There's something hilarious about this but I'm not sure what. Oh, wait, I know! I do it almost everyday! It's only because I'm a little smarter than a Chimp that I figured it out. Meaning I figured out how to NOT do it. OK, it was by accident. I'm not telling you what it is. I'm guarding it with my life.

[GreekJet]

Drafting a QB 2nd overall is the right decision.   The Jets need a QB and there are good QB prospects available. Not sure why this is so complicated?

[More Cowbell]

6 hours ago, oatmeal said:

So many parrot this but Darnold is a known and that’s the literal worst starting QB in the NFL since entering the league. All those rookies should look appealing according to this logic 

I personally  think Wilson has bust written all over him. I have never seen a QB with so many red flags rated so high and I think it is possible  he makes Darnold  look like an all pro when he enters then league. This guy had one great season against dog ? teams and lost to the one nationally  ranked team he played against. The guy had enough time to drink a cup of coffee in that pocket. The arm talent is undeniable  but he has been in polar opposite position  than what Darnold has been as far as team and competition.

[GreekJet]

BTW the same fans who are advocating for not drafting a QB will be the same fans who two years later will be saying “Fields wouldn’t be doing what he’s doing here”. 

[oatmeal]

6 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Darnold + whatever pick you are passing up to keep him + his proven record of being a turnover machine in both college and the pros + the prospect of him being marginally better and now facing the dilemma of what to do with him regarding the fifth year option + the unknowns of next years QB crop + having to start with a rookie QB in 2022 drafted in God knows what draft position + the absolute distaste any free agent with half a brain and any semblance of talent would have for coming here EQUALS

Absolutely no sense to keep Sam Darnold. Absolutely none. It's third grade mathematics that only the truly faithful cannot figure out. The chance of upside is so tiny and the downside is so large.

I'd be done with this franchise. I've already been a party to being a laughingstock for forty years. Not a day more. Not when it's this simple. This is like drafting two safeties back to back at the top of a draft. You can talk yourself into anything making sense if you want it bad enough.

This 

 

Brother idk but something happened to this world on January 1st 2020. Idk what it is but it’s like 80% of the population drank the double idiot kool-aid. Common sense was lacking in the general public before but it was never this bad. 
 

The general public hive mind = Play-Doh for the mainstream media   

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, Jetluv58 said:

We need ... Wilson. 

Oh God no. I would rather take Fields or even Lance. Wilson is actually the last QB I hope this team drafts. 

[GreekJet]

2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I personally  think Wilson has bust written all over him. I have never seen a QB with so many red flags rated so high and I think it is possible  he makes Darnold  look like an all pro when he enters then league. This guy had one great season against dog ? teams and lost to the one nationally  ranked team he played against. The guy had enough time to drink a cup of coffee in that pocket. The arm talent is undeniable  but he has been in polar opposite position  than what Darnold has been as far as team and competition.

How many BYU games have you watched? You are writing this player off because he wasn’t on TV much and played against teams you have never heard of. Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, and Mac Jones had the same talent advantages. 

[More Cowbell]

45 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I think the real dilemma the FO faces is that they are "stuck" with the #2 pick.  What the hell do that do with it.  Trade down would be nice but is there really a team willing to trade up to the crappy #2 spot?   

So Take LT; I don't think so.

Take WR might be the best of the poor choices and the least overreach for the spot.  

Needles to say, all these QBs are an overreach.

 

Bottom line, I'll be sitting at my TV on draft day  I pray some team is hungry enough for an LT to help us out.      

I don't  think there is anything wrong with drafting a game breaking receiver  or a brick wall of an OT.