Keeping Darnold and the unspoken plight of a Jets Fan--

[Paradis]

6 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

Oh wo is you! Perhaps you should go see Mommy and she can give you some cookies, milk, and a kiss to make you feel better?

I'm sorry you need a 10$ hooker and a bottle of Jack's to discuss your feelings, boomer. 

Pro-tip: work on that. Your kids might actually call you on christmas. 

[PepPep]

11 hours ago, Paradis said:

Maybe i'm out in the left field with this one... but the biggest reason why I shed my Darnold love like a paper boat down a storm drain was "I don't want to feel divided anymore"

Of course i would like to see Darnold rehabbed by the new Regime, trade back and reap the rewards of copious Draft picks. Of course it would be nice to just believe in him again... 

but is that really possible?

Is it possible to watch him again not feel like we're "treading water"? Genuine question for you guys. 

Adam Gase was a nightmare. But even when there was (brief at best) moments of positivity, it's still puts the fan in a predicament of getting behind those moments. I'm tired of feeling divided about what's best for the Jets. I don't want to watch a "semi-improved" Darnold and feel challenge to buy-in on a weekly basis - to have wrestle with the reality of can Darnold keep it up, is this going to last, etc... It's not much different that a bad relationship, where at some point - you ask what's best in the long run. 

I've come to terms with the separation and want to start 2021 with nothing but hopeful optimism. I think that's with Fields, maybe some of you feel that's Wilson or Watson - whatever... but i don't want to watch the Jets on eggshells anymore

 

I completely agree. Not only have I been saying that I believe that the Jets should take a QB at #2 but that despite rumors they WILL take a QB at #2, regardless of where Darnold ends up (quite possibly battling it out with a rookie QB taken #2 overall). I just don't think he has any future with the Jets and they don't plan to re-sign him. The rookie for me is Fields as well. I was a fan of Wilson for a while but have since come back down to earth and realize Fields is the better prospect.

As far as having that temptation to trade down for a haul- that is my biggest worry with JD. I know how much he value draft capital. I fear that an overconfident coaching staff will say- 'Yeah, we can work with Sam, we can turn him around.' JD will get an offer to move down and despite liking Fields/Wilson won't be able to pass on the draft capital offered him. Then we will see Darnold and his usual ups and downs, struggling to learn a new system, making moronic throws in coverage with some flashes of brilliance sprinkled in. Overall, the season will be a slight improvement but not enough for the Jets to resign him and they will let him walk in FA. The Jets record will be markedly improved mainly due to coaching, I can almost guarantee that, and they will probably win 6-8 games- the Jets will be picking in the early teens. No FQB in sight. The Jets would need to push to trade for Watson or sign some vet or hope Morgan turns into something or draft a second tier rookie QB or trade draft assets to move up for QB which often times is not even an option. It's not a great position to be in when you are already sitting at #2 and can take a QB THIS year.   

[y2k8]

2 hours ago, MaybeOneDay said:

And Ironically, by drafting a QB at 2, we may be Missing Out on much better options down the road!  That is the FOMO I currently have.   How bad would it suck to take a QB at 2, then miss an opportunity to make a reasonable trade for DeShaun Watson down the road, only to watch him to to the Fins?  

If the organization thinks one of these QBs is the guy, by all means, take him. I trust the judgement.

But JD & Co will be chained to that pick. It's an all-in move. They won't get another chance.

Punting makes the most sense otherwise.

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

When selecting a QB the difference between 11 and two is inconsequential. If you like him at 11, you like him at two. There is more at stake than nine draft slots.

I have watched every passing play and every run from almost every game he played this year. You should try again.

All I'm going to say is I'm glad you aren't  the GM. 

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

6 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

All I'm going to say is I'm glad you aren't  the GM. 

Thank you for the positive affirmation. Perhaps I can put this in terms you would understand.

Would you have drafted Pat Mahomes at 2 or would that be too rich for your blood?

Deshaun Watson, where would you have drafted him?

Tom Brady? Would you have reached for him in the fifth round?

If you think a guy is a guy at the most important position in all of sports, you pick him as high as you need to. You don't mess around.

[slimjasi]

12 hours ago, Paradis said:

Maybe i'm out in the left field with this one... but the biggest reason why I shed my Darnold love like a paper boat down a storm drain was "I don't want to feel divided anymore"

Of course i would like to see Darnold rehabbed by the new Regime, trade back and reap the rewards of copious Draft picks. Of course it would be nice to just believe in him again... 

but is that really possible?

Is it possible to watch him again not feel like we're "treading water"? Genuine question for you guys. 

Adam Gase was a nightmare. But even when there was (brief at best) moments of positivity, it's still puts the fan in a predicament of getting behind those moments. I'm tired of feeling divided about what's best for the Jets. I don't want to watch a "semi-improved" Darnold and feel challenge to buy-in on a weekly basis - to have wrestle with the reality of can Darnold keep it up, is this going to last, etc... It's not much different that a bad relationship, where at some point - you ask what's best in the long run. 

I've come to terms with the separation and want to start 2021 with nothing but hopeful optimism. I think that's with Fields, maybe some of you feel that's Wilson or Watson - whatever... but i don't want to watch the Jets on eggshells anymore

 

Great post. 

Couldn't agree more. 

[Dcat]

5 hours ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Yes, yes there is when your QB is the worst QB in football with a clean pocket. It's like giving a chimpanzee a ferrari hoping he'll get you to the Walmart faster than he did with the 72 Nova.

My '72 Nova stalled each and every morning on my way to FHHS at the exact same school bus stop at the bottom of a hill.  It became a ritual that earned applause every morning..  

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

My '72 Nova stalled each and every morning on my way to FHHS at the exact same school bus stop at the bottom of a hill.  It became a ritual that earned applause every morning..  

Man, my friends parents had one that would not quit. Kept his dad busy fixing it, but he kept it going.

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

The number 2 pick gets like 20 million guaranteed regardless of position. Add on the 5 mil dead cap on darnold and that's the 2nd most expensive option 

The team you keep calling cheap gave 113M guaranteed to the three headed monster of Trumaine Johnson, Leveon Bell, and CJ Mosely.

[More Cowbell]

40 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Thank you for the positive affirmation. Perhaps I can put this in terms you would understand.

Would you have drafted Pat Mahomes at 2 or would that be too rich for your blood?

Deshaun Watson, where would you have drafted him?

Tom Brady? Would you have reached for him in the fifth round?

If you think a guy is a guy at the most important position in all of sports, you pick him as high as you need to. You don't mess around.

Hind sight is 20 20. Bringing up the three QB'S you named means nothing more than you can see that they all worked out. A better question is would you have passed on JaMarcus Russell  and Vince Young where they were selected.

My point is if you think the guy you want at the position he is playing is the 7th or 11th pick in this draft, if he isn't  the number 2 player on your board, you trade down and try to get him later. What you just described is why this team has no talent on it after the last 10 years.

[ZachEY]

15 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Man, my friends parents had one that would not quit. Kept his dad busy fixing it, but he kept it going.

DWC or No?

[Paradis]

13 hours ago, nycdan said:

I get it.  I think I'd prefer Watson if reasonable, or Fields.  But if we do go Darnold, I can find it in me to be hopeful.

I truly think that Gase was SO utterly awful at game-planning that Darnold could very possibly be a mid-ranked QB next year just for having better talent and better coaches around him.  No, I'm not high.  I truly believe that if you extrapolate from his rookie year, and give him the kind of support that most successful QBs get, he can be much better.  

I've seen people say how rare it is, but I don't think it really is.  Here are a few random examples:

Derek Carr had around a 60% completion % his first four seasons.  Then Gruden shows up, changes everything, and Carr has since then thrown at about a 69% completion rate since.  That is a massive step up.  In his case, it didn't translate to much in terms of wins, but he became a much more effective QB, actually throwing to less talented receivers in 2018 vs. 2017.

Alex Smith was a JAG in SF.  60% Completion rate for 7 seasons.  Then in his last year, he hit 70% and went to KC and maintained a 66% rate for a few more years while also cutting his INT rate in half.  And there are more.  You can look at Steve Young, Randall Cunningham and Rich Gannon to name a few if you are willing to go back a few years.  

Now these names aren't intended to wow you.  They are intended to point out that positive changes around a QB can create positive change from the QB.  If we put real talent around Sam over this offseason, and he improves (despite the clamoring certainty from some here that it's impossible), then we could be pretty darned happy this time next year.  Again, it's not necessarily what I think we *should* do, but I'm prepared for it and will hope it makes fools out of the naysayers because that would be a double win

 

Totally. 

this is what I told myself when i was like "..sure, lets "try" Darnold out in a new system.." and trade back to flesh out the rosters 

But here's the thing...

I just don't care anymore. It's been a rough 10 years - and I don't want to go into september on eggshells. Burn it down/move on.

[Paradis]

3 hours ago, MaybeOneDay said:

I'm thinking that the worst coach and staff in the league these last 2 years ruined a lot of things...one of them being optimism and enthusiasm of the fans.

I totally get it.  Darnold did not look very good at all the last 2 years.  I understand anyone who wants to just cut bait and start fresh.  After Gase, I understand the feeling to just burn it all to the ground and start fresh.

In my opinion, even if DeShaun Watson is our starter, 2021 is going to be a re-building year.  What's the best we can honestly expect?  Maybe sneak into the playoffs and lose in WC round?  That's if everything falls into place and goes perfect.  

With that as a backdrop, factor in:

- What can we get by trading out of #2?  By all accounts, a LOT...potentially a franchise altering haul which can be used to speed up the rebuild.

- If you go back and watch Sam his Rookie year, he did have moments where he flashed big-time.  Even the last few years, you can find a few brief glimpses which make you go "Wow".  Go back and watch from his rookie year the Colts and Packers games...if this coaching staff thinks they can harness his natural ability and mentally get him past the nightmare which was the last 2 years, what do we really have to lose by giving it a shot?

Best case scenario, Darnold proves himself to be much much better than what we've seen the last few years.  Worst case scenario, he flops, the backup plays a bunch this year, and we acquire a new QB for 2022.

I would also analyze what is going on in Houston and Seattle.  Look if you draft a QB at 2 this year, you may actually miss an opportunity later on down the road.  The situation in Houston looks like a complete mess.  DeShaun says he's done, will not play for Texans again, and Houston saying they are not trading him.  I think that whole team is in disarray right now, they don't know what they are doing.  It takes 2 to make a trade, we can't just acquire DeShaun here in March 2021 if Houston is not willing to trade him, or demands so much that it's laughable.  Eventually this thing will come to a head, either in training camp or once the 2021 season starts and DeShaun sticks to his guns and does not show up.  By not picking a QB at 2, by building the team around Darnold and perhaps acquiring more 2022 picks, the Jets may actually be putting themselves into prime position to eventually add Watson at a reasonable cost.  

Now look to Seattle...all is not well there. Who knows what happens between the team and Russell Wilson.  If he's not traded before the 2021 draft, there's a decent chance he is traded at some point after.  Maybe they decide give it 1 more shot in 2021, which may ultimately fail, at which time he may be available in a trade.  

I have to think JD is plugged in and looking around at the landscape and may come to a similar conclusion.

Keep the faith, my friends.  Just because we go into 2021 with Darnold as our starter does not mean that we are married to him years to come.  And the kid just may surprise you.  Ultimately, he may be the QB we are all seeking.

No argument from me on the philosophy and managerial prowess. It's the same reasons i was a supporter. I would be in heaven to walk out of round 1 with Pitts & co... plus 3 picks on the horizon in 2022 in the first round...

but this is the fan talking now -- i don't care. I just don't anymore. I want to have nothing but virgin-esque optimism and excitement for 2021... that won't happen with Sam. It'll be sleeping with a nightlight and wondering if Uncle Frank with the curious hands is visiting this weekeend. 

[slats]

48 minutes ago, Dcat said:

My '72 Nova stalled each and every morning on my way to FHHS at the exact same school bus stop at the bottom of a hill.  It became a ritual that earned applause every morning..  

*currently in his local sex offender database. 

[nycdan]

15 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

I just don't care anymore. It's been a rough 10 years - and I don't want to go into the september on eggshells. 

 

Did I hear my name?

[rangerous]

13 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I'd like to see Darnold with half assed team talent and a coach who is not the worst in the league.

The vast majority of fans and a good chance the Jets have pitched him off the boat already.

What I do not want is in the rush to bury Darnold to run right into another mistake.

Trying for Watson is a good move over paying for him is a huge error.

drafting a QB at #2 we are not sure about is another huge mistake.

Wilson and Fields both have nice qualities but both have questions as well.

I'm in no rush to find the next QB, not until we have upped the talent of this team in a bunch of areas.

if they draft a qb at two they still have the option of letting him sit behind darnold for a season.  it's not the first time the hare apparent was waiting in the wings.  and if darnold lights it up then the rookie can be traded.  and vice versa.  and they can also trade down and look at a guy like jones to be the hare apparent.

[bitonti]

56 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The team you keep calling cheap gave 113M guaranteed to the three headed monster of Trumaine Johnson, Leveon Bell, and CJ Mosely.

they gave those players those deals to get above the floor

they haven't spent to the cap since the Rex era 

how can a team be 80 million dollars under a 180 million dollar cap *160 mil floor* and not be cheap 

 they didn't get there by accident 

 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Thank you for the positive affirmation. Perhaps I can put this in terms you would understand.

Would you have drafted Pat Mahomes at 2 or would that be too rich for your blood?

Deshaun Watson, where would you have drafted him?

Tom Brady? Would you have reached for him in the fifth round?

If you think a guy is a guy at the most important position in all of sports, you pick him as high as you need to. You don't mess around.

the draft is not about what "you" or "that other dude" will do 

Joe Douglas traded from 48 to 59 to take Denzel Mims. He used that 11 slot drop to take James Morgan. 

He's not going to reach, no matter how much Johnny Jetsfan wants to reach. We don't get a vote

JD is hoping for trade down but he's not going to leave value on the table just to take a wild swing on QB need. 

he's not at that point in his tenure yet

[greenwichjetfan]

18 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Did I hear my name?

Noodles are entirely different from eggshells.

Eggshells contain eggs.

That noodle contained ducks.

[MaybeOneDay]

26 minutes ago, Paradis said:

No argument from me on the philosophy and managerial prowess. It's the same reasons i was a supporter. I would be in heaven to walk out of round 1 with Pitts & co... plus 3 picks on the horizon in 2022 in the first round...

but this is the fan talking now -- i don't care. I just don't anymore. I want to have nothing but virgin-esque optimism and excitement for 2021... that won't happen with Sam. It'll be sleeping with a nightlight and wondering if Uncle Frank with the curious hands is visiting this weekeend. 

Maybe this will give u some hope: consider the before and after Gase for guys like Tannehill, Kenyon Drake, DeVante Parker, Mike Gesicki.

Nothing can grow in a Toxic Wasteland.

It may take some time, which admittedly sucks, but trust me when I say, these players will see their career paths hit an upswing.

[nycdan]

36 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Noodles are entirely different from eggshells.

Eggshells contain eggs.

That noodle contained ducks.

And then there's this:

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

the draft is not about what "you" or "that other dude" will do 

Joe Douglas traded from 48 to 59 to take Denzel Mims. He used that 11 slot drop to take James Morgan. 

He's not going to reach, no matter how much Johnny Jetsfan wants to reach. We don't get a vote

JD is hoping for trade down but he's not going to leave value on the table just to take a wild swing on QB need. 

he's not at that point in his tenure yet

What you said has nothing to do with what I posted.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

DWC or No?

What is DWC

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

What you said has nothing to do with what I posted.

You want the Jets picking at 2 to take players at 10 Mahomes or 12 Watson or 199 Brady. Jd is not going to do that 

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

You want the Jets picking at 2 to take players at 10 Mahomes or 12 Watson or 199 Brady. Jd is not going to do that 

He definitely shouldn't be taking an upgrade at right tackle at 2 either.

If you think you have a franchise QB, taking him at 2 is the same as taking him at 11 unless you really want to put your families future on the line and **** around trying to get an extra pick or two.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Hind sight is 20 20. Bringing up the three QB'S you named means nothing more than you can see that they all worked out. A better question is would you have passed on JaMarcus Russell  and Vince Young where they were selected.

My point is if you think the guy you want at the position he is playing is the 7th or 11th pick in this draft, if he isn't  the number 2 player on your board, you trade down and try to get him later. What you just described is why this team has no talent on it after the last 10 years.

Oh, is that why the team has no talent for the last ten years? Perhaps you should do a google search for "Jet Drafts Idzik" and "Jet Drafts Maccagnan" and you'll see why. Not having enough picks to blow was definitely not the problem. 12 picks and 11 whiffs is why we have no talent. No offensive line picks is why we have no talent.

1st round safety, second round tight end

2nd round hackenberg

Back to back safeties first and second round

No offensive line picks

Career turnover machine three years removed from playing linebacker in high school at number 3 and trading two second rounders for the privilege

Should I go on?

[Jetluv58]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

if they draft a qb at two they still have the option of letting him sit behind darnold for a season.  it's not the first time the hare apparent was waiting in the wings.  and if darnold lights it up then the rookie can be traded.  and vice versa.  and they can also trade down and look at a guy like jones to be the hare apparent.

[bitonti]

22 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

He definitely shouldn't be taking an upgrade at right tackle at 2 either.

If you think you have a franchise QB, taking him at 2 is the same as taking him at 11 unless you really want to put your families future on the line and **** around trying to get an extra pick or two.

JD will do anything for an extra pick or two 

side note drafting sewell upgrades 2 positions right and left tackle

he's also conveniently the 2nd best prospect in the draft 

i know enough that the Jets are not going to make this move but that's the guy we are going to look back on years from now like Quenton Nelson and say "geez, how did they miss on that?" 

 

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

JD will do anything for an extra pick or two 

side note drafting sewell upgrades 2 positions right and left tackle

he's also conveniently the 2nd best prospect in the draft 

i know enough that the Jets are not going to make this move but that's the guy we are going to look back on years from now like Quenton Nelson and say "geez, how did they miss on that?" 

 

Zach Wilson makes ten times more sense than an upgrade at tackles and Sam Darnold.

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Zach Wilson makes ten times more sense than an upgrade at tackles and Sam Darnold.

The Quarterback room consists of 23 year old Sam Darnold and 23 year old James Morgan (a JD pick who hasn't played). Sorry if I'm unconvinced that a 21 year old Wilson or Fields is the answer they've been missing.

The QB room doesn't lack for youth. 

 

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The Quarterback room consists of 23 year old Sam Darnold and 23 year old James Morgan (a JD pick who hasn't played). Sorry if I'm unconvinced that a 21 year old Wilson or Fields is the answer they've been missing.

The QB room doesn't lack for youth. 

 

As young as they are, neither one is a good gamble. If Trevor Lawrence was the pick you'd never share this opinion out loud, yet Zach Wilson is better than him.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

What is DWC

Well played.

[The Crusher]

54 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The Quarterback room consists of 23 year old Sam Darnold and 23 year old James Morgan (a JD pick who hasn't played). Sorry if I'm unconvinced that a 21 year old Wilson or Fields is the answer they've been missing.

The QB room doesn't lack for youth. 

 

Fitzmagic baby!

[addage]

The question is NOT should we draft a QB with the 2nd overall pick.  The question is:  is there a QB available who is worth the #2 overall pick.

I don't know.  And I am pretty damned sure you don't either.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

1 hour ago, addage said:

The question is NOT should we draft a QB with the 2nd overall pick.  The question is:  is there a QB available who is worth the #2 overall pick.

I don't know.  And I am pretty damned sure you don't either.

I know. If Trevor Lawrence is worth numero uno, Zach Wilson is worth numero due. Picking Penei Sewell would be doing a numero due.