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Who should the Jets sign to backup Zach Wilson?


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15 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

Re: comparisons among other veteran QBs --

Different QBs are different. Never mind there are lots of straw man arguments here, as though anyone is pushing for a 39 year-old QB. Particularly when you're quoting a post that said I don't want to see them overspend to see McCown here again, and anyway I'm not even aware of any 39 year-olds who are available. 

Also if you think they're terrible, I don't see what's better in any way about a terrible young QB vs. a terrible experienced QB, other than the former will have zero to impart to our young starter. Just because someone isn't a great QB doesn't therefore mean they also know nothing about the position or about staying healthy in the NFL or about any number of things of which Morgan/White know nothing. If the coaches think they've all got no starting future, but one can be of actual help to the young QB, and after this many years bouncing around they at least know where the receivers are supposed to be and don't get confused or see ghosts when overlooking a defensive formation they've seen 1000x before, and if they're all about the same cost anyway, then that's my preference. If the latter costs $8MM, then it's no longer my preference. 

I think most of the time when coaches talk about bringing in a vet to mentor it has to do with study habits and breaking down film.  I think they keep guys around that help these kids with that, and it would probably benefit Morgan and White almost as much as Wilson.  Other times they are there to keep a kid pointed in the right direction, but that is a whole nother story.

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Put some respect on James Morgan name sir

Gonna check in with Zack Wilson’s parents to see what they think:  

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I know thourobred race horse trainers usually have a goat or a miniture donkey around to keep the race horse calm.

Perhaps bringing in a JAG vet will have the same calming effect on Zach.  He won't feel threatened that a miniture donkey will replace him at Belmont if he comes in second in the Derby.  

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52 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Is that supposed to be impressive? A bunch of trash-time passing yards in (mostly, 5-11) losing efforts and a near 1:1 TD:INT Ratio?  For a guy that "knows the system", he was pretty meh at actually playing in it, outside of the aforementioned trash-time playing-from-behind passing yards.  

He may be the "best available" admittedly, and he may technically be a "veteran" by the thinnest of definitions, but he is still rehabbing from his severe injury and surgery to his throwing shoulder at current as well.  He's just not a need for us, nor for Wilson.

We have a guy on the roster our GM thought highly enough of to spend a 4th round pick on. 

Lets give him the same chance the 49'ers gave their UDFA nobody of a QB Mr. Mullens.  The irony here is if we had signed Mullens, most of you would be screaming that we can'y play Mullens as our #2, and that we'd need a Veteran!

There is no downside here.  If Morgan sucks up the place, so what.  It's not like we're competing for a Super Bowl this year, and no amount of Nick Mullens will change that.  If Wilson goes down, the #2 is a placeholder, nothing more.  I, for one, would like to see the big kid we drafted be that placeholder, and not spend a single extra penny on that role.

So why not bring in a guy like Mullens and let him compete with Morgan for the backup job? He won't be expensive. If he was in demand he'd already be signed somewhere. For the Jets, with zero NFL starts at QB on the current roster, seems like a nice way to beef up the room a tad. 

And then if he beats out Morgan, cut Morgan. Put him on the practice squad or don't, I don't care. I've been very happy with Joe Douglas' approach as GM so far, and nothing would solidify my feelings for that approach more than if he demonstrated a willingness to cut bait with his own draft picks that aren't working out. I've got no problem with Morgan as the backup if he's ready for that role, but I have a big problem with it if he's not. 

I expect Wilson to be the opening day starter, and I hope he starts all 17 games. That's pretty far from guaranteed, though. If he misses any stretch of time, the Jets will need a viable backup so that guys like Becton, Mims, AVT, Moore, and Carter continue to get good work, rather than just trotting out on the field while their inept backup leads them to a series of 3 & outs. 

And yeah, I cannot for the life of me understand how having a player in the room who knows the system could possibly be bad for Zach Wilson or the team in general. This is one of your favorite arguments every year, and I just don't get it. We're not talking a $10M 38-year-old here. Just having an NFL caliber backup on the team. 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

So why not bring in a guy like Mullens and let him compete with Morgan for the backup job? He won't be expensive. If he was in demand he'd already be signed somewhere. For the Jets, with zero NFL starts at QB on the current roster, seems like a nice way to beef up the room a tad.

Why not?  Because we have a QB prospect already in Morgan that our GM liked enough to spend a draft valuable pick on.  If I were JD, I'd like to see him play in preseason this year before I write him off.  Fans have no reason as yet to write him off at all.

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I've been very happy with Joe Douglas' approach as GM so far, and nothing would solidify my feelings for that approach more than if he demonstrated a willingness to cut bait with his own draft picks that aren't working out.

Don't worry, it's possible JD will cut bait on Perine this year.  So you're feelings may still be solidified.

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I expect Wilson to be the opening day starter, and I hope he starts all 17 games. That's pretty far from guaranteed, though. If he misses any stretch of time, the Jets will need a viable backup so that guys like Becton, Mims, AVT, Moore, and Carter continue to get good work, rather than just trotting out on the field while their inept backup leads them to a series of 3 & outs. 

They'll all get "good work" no matter who the QB is.  Again, falling back on the old chestnut meme that only a "Veteran QB" can possibly play QB is just wrong, as most other teams show us each year when they play young backups when needed.  

And if those guys are good 9And I think they are), they won't be getting 3 and outs even with a meh backup.  

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And yeah, I cannot for the life of me understand how having a player in the room who knows the system could possibly be bad for Zach Wilson or the team in general. This is one of your favorite arguments every year, and I just don't get it. We're not talking a $10M 38-year-old here. Just having an NFL caliber backup on the team. 

Prove that Morgan isn't an NFL caliber backup, and maybe you'll have a point.  If the job is already filled, we don't need to spend money to fill it, do we?

Ultimately, I expect both Sherman and Mullens to be signed by the Jets before opening day.  So you'll likely get what you want. 

As to why this is an issue for me most years, just look at our history the past decade.  Fitz.  McCown.  Flacco.  In almost all cases, they played when they shouldn't have, and took time and reps away from younger players while still losing most of their games (2015 excepted).  I don't see the need for them.  If Wilson is good, he'll be good without Mullens holding his dick while he learns, he'll learn on his own, from his Coaches, how his coaches want him to learn.  I mean really, who is Nick Mullens to warrant all this, a JAG undrafted QB whose resume of "NFL Starts" isn't that great frankly.  

It's an ironic argument, if the Jets ever played their own young backups instead of the geriatric ward, they'd be "Veteran QB's with a few starts", and meet what seems to be the only criteria most fans seem to care about, "Veteran" and "a few starts", lol.

Ultimately, it's not a hill I intend to die on or anything.  Won't be any outrage from me when we ultimately sign Mullens (or that sucky loser Hoyer), because it's what I expect to happen.  Then Morgan won't get reps, and will likely be cast aside at some point, making his pick all but pointless.  Same as usual.

 

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James Morgan is the unknown quantity. Is he ready to play in a regulation game let alone start a game. He might theoretically not even make the team if they decide to PS him. So you’d think the Jets will sign or trade for a vet. One of the 49ers castoffs Mullens or Beathard (if so I’d take Mullens) or someone new who could maybe challenge Wilson for the starting job. The player who sticks out to me is Minshew. 

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1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

James Morgan is the unknown quantity. Is he ready to play in a regulation game let alone start a game. He might theoretically not even make the team if they decide to PS him. So you’d think the Jets will sign or trade for a vet. One of the 49ers castoffs Mullens or Beathard (if so I’d take Mullens) or someone new who could maybe challenge Wilson for the starting job. The player who sticks out to me is Minshew. 

Minshew isn't a free agent and would cost a pretty high draft pick to acquire.

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7 hours ago, BCJet said:

My guess is that Mullens personality isnt a fit behind wilson, because everything you say is correct with regard to the system etc and LaFleur knows him.  If he liked him, thought he could help Zach in any way and felt he was a good backup for this team, he would be here already.  For whatever reason he isnt, so there is likely something that we just dont know which is stopping us from signing  him.

He's still injured. That's why he hasn't signed anywhere

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4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think most of the time when coaches talk about bringing in a vet to mentor it has to do with study habits and breaking down film.  I think they keep guys around that help these kids with that, and it would probably benefit Morgan and White almost as much as Wilson.  Other times they are there to keep a kid pointed in the right direction, but that is a whole nother story.

I agree that your your backup QB needs to have strong study habits. 

However, when Morgan was drafted Ourlads said that "he works as hard off the field studying film and opponents as he does on the field."  He was also known for his leadership - team captain - and he won the leadership award at the shrine game.  

In short, the backup QB you seek is already on the Jets.  Given the QB leftovers, I would bring somebody in at the minimum and make clear that must beat out Morgan for the backup job if they want to make the team.   

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5 hours ago, Warfish said:

Is that supposed to be impressive? A bunch of trash-time passing yards in (mostly, 5-11) losing efforts and a near 1:1 TD:INT Ratio?  For a guy that "knows the system", he was pretty meh at actually playing in it, outside of the aforementioned trash-time playing-from-behind passing yards.  

He may be the "best available" admittedly, and he may technically be a "veteran" by the thinnest of definitions, but he is still rehabbing from his severe injury and surgery to his throwing shoulder at current as well.  He's just not a need for us, nor for Wilson.

We have a guy on the roster our GM thought highly enough of to spend a 4th round pick on. 

Lets give him the same chance the 49'ers gave their UDFA nobody of a QB Mr. Mullens.  The irony here is if we had signed Mullens, most of you would be screaming that we can'y play Mullens as our #2, and that we'd need a Veteran!

There is no downside here.  If Morgan sucks up the place, so what.  It's not like we're competing for a Super Bowl this year, and no amount of Nick Mullens will change that.  If Wilson goes down, the #2 is a placeholder, nothing more.  I, for one, would like to see the big kid we drafted be that placeholder, and not spend a single extra penny on that role.

Everything you said in this is incorrect. He started 16 games, they weren't in "trash time". And the vast majority of people have been saying Mullens as the backup since the Saleh hiring. 

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Not sure why so many have a problem with Hoyer.

He’s basically the template for a veteran backup QB.

He’s cheap, has started 40 games over the course of his career, has a near 2:1 TD/INT ratio, experienced in a multitude of offensive systems (including the one we’ll be running), is known as a hardworking positive influence in the locker room, etc.

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Why not?  Because we have a QB prospect already in Morgan that our GM liked enough to spend a draft valuable pick on.  If I were JD, I'd like to see him play in preseason this year before I write him off.  Fans have no reason as yet to write him off at all.

Don't worry, it's possible JD will cut bait on Perine this year.  So you're feelings may still be solidified.

They'll all get "good work" no matter who the QB is.  Again, falling back on the old chestnut meme that only a "Veteran QB" can possibly play QB is just wrong, as most other teams show us each year when they play young backups when needed.  

And if those guys are good 9And I think they are), they won't be getting 3 and outs even with a meh backup.  

Prove that Morgan isn't an NFL caliber backup, and maybe you'll have a point.  If the job is already filled, we don't need to spend money to fill it, do we?

Ultimately, I expect both Sherman and Mullens to be signed by the Jets before opening day.  So you'll likely get what you want. 

As to why this is an issue for me most years, just look at our history the past decade.  Fitz.  McCown.  Flacco.  In almost all cases, they played when they shouldn't have, and took time and reps away from younger players while still losing most of their games (2015 excepted).  I don't see the need for them.  If Wilson is good, he'll be good without Mullens holding his dick while he learns, he'll learn on his own, from his Coaches, how his coaches want him to learn.  I mean really, who is Nick Mullens to warrant all this, a JAG undrafted QB whose resume of "NFL Starts" isn't that great frankly.  

It's an ironic argument, if the Jets ever played their own young backups instead of the geriatric ward, they'd be "Veteran QB's with a few starts", and meet what seems to be the only criteria most fans seem to care about, "Veteran" and "a few starts", lol.

Ultimately, it's not a hill I intend to die on or anything.  Won't be any outrage from me when we ultimately sign Mullens (or that sucky loser Hoyer), because it's what I expect to happen.  Then Morgan won't get reps, and will likely be cast aside at some point, making his pick all but pointless.  Same as usual.

 

Honestly, this whole post is weird to me. I seem to remember you being adamant about competition at the starting QB position being critically important, rather than just handing the job over to the #3 overall pick in the draft. Now it would be wasting a fourth round pick to have competition for the backup job? 
  
Yeah, don’t get it. Now competition isn’t important? Morgan should be handed the job because fourth rounder? 

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Wilson will have a "peer" in Morgan.
The old Journeymen QB's aren't peers to an early 20 something like Wilson.  They're more like grandparents. Hell, they're probably older than the QB Coaches, lol.
I don't see the "peer" vs. "coach" thing like you do, this isn't 6th grade ffs, it's a professional job.  
More, I don't WANT my shiny new young QB going around his Coaches to ask a loser Journeyman questions. 
Certainly didn't work for Darnold/McCown in the results area.
Add that to the list of excuses...

1. No weapons
2. Bad coach
3. No running back
4. Poor oline
5. Mentor sucked

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If you were starting a new company, would you hire a room full of recent college grads with zero professional experience?


Mark Zuckerberg

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There is not a position on the team that has more coaches than the QB. There is the HC, the OC, and the QB coach. Why take a roster spot with a "mentor?"  I just never understood that.  Do the WRs have a player/mentor?  The OL?  The DBs?  Coaches coach and players play. The back up QB's job is to .... back up the QB, not teach him how to play QB.  There are 53 roster spots with 45 on game day. There is no room for "mentors."   And as Warfish stated above, who wants some JAG/journeyman like Hoyer or Mullens to "mentor" Wilson?  What would Wilson actually learn from Hoyer? How to move your family once a year?
But you would never have an NFL team start with a room full of WR rookies or oline or cb,etc...

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47 minutes ago, slats said:

Honestly, this whole post is weird to me.

I'll do my best to walk through it.  No stress.  

47 minutes ago, slats said:

I seem to remember you being adamant about competition at the starting QB position being critically important, rather than just handing the job over to the #3 overall pick in the draft.

That is accurate, I believe in competition, and that it brings the very best out of people, especially and specifically in Sports.

47 minutes ago, slats said:

Now it would be wasting a fourth round pick to have competition for the backup job?

We have competition for the backup job already, White and Morgan. 

The idea of signing Mullens is not competition, if he is signed, he will be anointed the #2 without any competition whatsoever.  In such a case, both the #1 and #2 QB's would not have faced any competition to earn their jobs.  Understandable with Wilson, I suppose.  That's how the league works.  Less so IMO with a hurt, nobody UDFA like Mullens.

47 minutes ago, slats said:

 Yeah, don’t get it. Now competition isn’t important? Morgan should be handed the job because fourth rounder? 

Morgan should compete with White, or any other QB Prospect we wish to acquire who isn't hurt, and won't cost us much on the Cap.  Mullens would, I presume, costs us a somewhat average #2 QB Salary.  I prefer to save that money and spend it elsewhere, like on Sherman at CB.

And again, if Morgan does in fact suck horribly, he should be cut!  And then you go scraping the league for the horrific Hoyer's of the world, lord knows there is always a Hoyer, or a McCown or their ilk we can sign.

I completely understand the idea of Mullens because he "knows the system" and fans have heard of him, lol.  I just don't agree it's vital to either Wilson or winning or our future.  The Coaches "know the system" vastly better than Mullens does, they'll be fine teaching it to Wilson. 

We drafted Morgan, presumably because our GM thought/thinks he is a legit NFL #2 QB.  Cutting bait after one COVID-riddled non-offseason seems....premature.  How about we be patient, and let Morgan have his shot.  What are we losing exactly without Mullens?  He's a loser (career W/L record) and a trash-time QB, exactly the kind of QB you used to rail against slats, when it was Fitzy racking up the meaningless slate-game from-behind yards.  And he's barely a 1:1 TD:INT guy, nothing special there.  I just don't see what we're losing that is so important.  Maybe everyone here is burned by the horror of Luke Falk, and now will never want to try a young Drafted backup QB ever again, who knows.

Again, it's fun to blow hot air about, but I will repeat:  I 100% expect JD to sign Mullens before opening day.  I expect our QB roster to be Wilson, Mullens, Morgan.  So fun chat aside, you're almost assuredly (IMO) going to get what you wish for.  Be happy!

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1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Not sure why so many have a problem with Hoyer.

He’s basically the template for a veteran backup QB.

He’s cheap, has started 40 games over the course of his career, has a near 2:1 TD/INT ratio, experienced in a multitude of offensive systems (including the one we’ll be running), is known as a hardworking positive influence in the locker room, etc.

I think his knowledge of the Patriot and Dolphin defenses is being overlooked.  That's 4 games out of the season.  I don't want Wilson seeing any ghosts!

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1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Not sure why so many have a problem with Hoyer.

He’s basically the template for a veteran backup QB.

He’s cheap, has started 40 games over the course of his career, has a near 2:1 TD/INT ratio, experienced in a multitude of offensive systems (including the one we’ll be running), is known as a hardworking positive influence in the locker room, etc.

You mean apart from being a horrible JAG of no appreciable redeeming qualities?

Since 2017, he's 0-8, with a 57% Comp. rate, and 8 TD's vs. 9 INT's.

Even in his "prime", he was a JAG of no real account.  

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Who was that Denver undrafted qb who mopped the floor with us last season? Let's sign him because clearly he can step up when needed.

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6 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think most of the time when coaches talk about bringing in a vet to mentor it has to do with study habits and breaking down film.  I think they keep guys around that help these kids with that, and it would probably benefit Morgan and White almost as much as Wilson.  Other times they are there to keep a kid pointed in the right direction, but that is a whole nother story.

I’ve always presumed a large benefit of the veteran mentor QB is to help the rookie adjust to life off the field—handling agents, corporate functions, groupies, how to buy clothes, condos, and cars without getting ripped off, etc. 

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On 5/13/2021 at 1:38 PM, johnnysd said:

No one. We have plenty of coaching for Zach. 

No one?

If Zach is injured in the 1st Q you just figure we will forfeit the game?

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28 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’ve always presumed a large benefit of the veteran mentor QB is to help the rookie adjust to life off the field—handling agents, corporate functions, groupies, how to buy clothes, condos, and cars without getting ripped off, etc. 

Right. Just a good influence in the locker room who shows them how to be a pro.

I don't think Mullens is by any stretch a priority but I do just think it's odd to go into an NFL season with a grand total of zero starts in the QB room.

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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No one?

If Zach is injured in the 1st Q you just figure we will forfeit the game?

The aversion to signing a qualified backup to Wilson is rooted in a deep fear that Wilson won’t be great right away and all those Jets fans who threw themselves in the path of every Wilson criticism during the draft process will feel betrayed if Saleh doesn’t start him on Day One

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1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Right. Just a good influence in the locker room who shows them how to be a pro.

I don't think Mullens is by any stretch a priority but I do just think it's odd to go into an NFL season with a grand total of zero starts in the QB room.

The same people who are aghast at the idea of signing a veteran backup to Wilson also killed Gase for *only* having Luke Falk on the roster backing up Darnold. 

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2 hours ago, clayton163v said:

I agree that your your backup QB needs to have strong study habits. 

However, when Morgan was drafted Ourlads said that "he works as hard off the field studying film and opponents as he does on the field."  He was also known for his leadership - team captain - and he won the leadership award at the shrine game.  

In short, the backup QB you seek is already on the Jets.  Given the QB leftovers, I would bring somebody in at the minimum and make clear that must beat out Morgan for the backup job if they want to make the team.   

I don't think it matters how good Morgan's study habits are.  College to the NFL is a pretty big jump.  Especially from Bowling Green/Florida Internation.  The purpose of the vet mentor is to teach them to work smart, not hard.  I think the reason they want guys that have played for them is because they know they will know the coach wants them to study and speed up the terminology.  

2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Not sure why so many have a problem with Hoyer.

He’s basically the template for a veteran backup QB.

He’s cheap, has started 40 games over the course of his career, has a near 2:1 TD/INT ratio, experienced in a multitude of offensive systems (including the one we’ll be running), is known as a hardworking positive influence in the locker room, etc.

I always kind of like Hoyer.  He seemed like a good spot starter/floor.   He's a bit old and too many Belichick ties to be perfect.  Interesting they would want him.  He was QB for SF in 2017 and was pretty horrible and benched for Beathard.  They dumped him when the got Garoppolo.  He has experience with LaFleur and but it is not good experience.

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35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’ve always presumed a large benefit of the veteran mentor QB is to help the rookie adjust to life off the field—handling agents, corporate functions, groupies, how to buy clothes, condos, and cars without getting ripped off, etc. 

BYU probably needs that more than USC.  

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8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The aversion to signing a qualified backup to Wilson is rooted in a deep fear that Wilson won’t be great right away and all those Jets fans who threw themselves in the path of every Wilson criticism during the draft process will feel betrayed if Saleh doesn’t start him on Day One

OH NO NOT BETRAYAL ANYTHING BUT BETRAYAL HEAVENS TO BETSY

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29 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The aversion to signing a qualified backup to Wilson is rooted in a deep fear that Wilson won’t be great right away and all those Jets fans who threw themselves in the path of every Wilson criticism during the draft process will feel betrayed if Saleh doesn’t start him on Day One

Nah, its goes back to Darnold and all the talk that we didnt need an experienced backup for him 

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5 hours ago, Warfish said:

Why not?  Because we have a QB prospect already in Morgan that our GM liked enough to spend a draft valuable pick on.  If I were JD, I'd like to see him play in preseason this year before I write him off.  Fans have no reason as yet to write him off at all.

Don't worry, it's possible JD will cut bait on Perine this year.  So you're feelings may still be solidified.

They'll all get "good work" no matter who the QB is.  Again, falling back on the old chestnut meme that only a "Veteran QB" can possibly play QB is just wrong, as most other teams show us each year when they play young backups when needed.  

And if those guys are good 9And I think they are), they won't be getting 3 and outs even with a meh backup.  

Prove that Morgan isn't an NFL caliber backup, and maybe you'll have a point.  If the job is already filled, we don't need to spend money to fill it, do we?

Ultimately, I expect both Sherman and Mullens to be signed by the Jets before opening day.  So you'll likely get what you want. 

As to why this is an issue for me most years, just look at our history the past decade.  Fitz.  McCown.  Flacco.  In almost all cases, they played when they shouldn't have, and took time and reps away from younger players while still losing most of their games (2015 excepted).  I don't see the need for them.  If Wilson is good, he'll be good without Mullens holding his dick while he learns, he'll learn on his own, from his Coaches, how his coaches want him to learn.  I mean really, who is Nick Mullens to warrant all this, a JAG undrafted QB whose resume of "NFL Starts" isn't that great frankly.  

It's an ironic argument, if the Jets ever played their own young backups instead of the geriatric ward, they'd be "Veteran QB's with a few starts", and meet what seems to be the only criteria most fans seem to care about, "Veteran" and "a few starts", lol.

Ultimately, it's not a hill I intend to die on or anything.  Won't be any outrage from me when we ultimately sign Mullens (or that sucky loser Hoyer), because it's what I expect to happen.  Then Morgan won't get reps, and will likely be cast aside at some point, making his pick all but pointless.  Same as usual.

 

Could not agree with a post more. The "veteran" QB argument is among the most brain dead in football for all the reasons you listed.

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On 3/5/2021 at 3:34 AM, BigRy56 said:

Mitchy T

Also who I wanted. Too bad Bills picked him up.

9 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

The player who sticks out to me is Minshew. 

This is the correct answer. 2022 4th rounder. No brainer. I’d even go a 3rd but doubt JD would.

 

1216DC4F-D536-43F2-8BE5-6EA97A82B710.png

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15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The aversion to signing a qualified backup to Wilson is rooted in a deep fear that Wilson won’t be great right away and all those Jets fans who threw themselves in the path of every Wilson criticism during the draft process will feel betrayed if Saleh doesn’t start him on Day One

Pretty sure you're the only person here who thinks it's a possibility that Wilson isn't the opening day starter. 

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