why the fields hate

[neckdemon]

6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Yes Chris Simms should shut up. 

I asked you what makes any of us qualified to be judgmental of others, especially NFL quality players. 

so if chris simms should shut up because he wasn't a great qb......and obviously none of us are qualified then i guess max should shut the place down because why the hell are any of us here talking about sh*t we have no right to be talking about and giving out opinions on?

[#27TheDominator]

13 hours ago, SayNoToDMC said:

Glad you appreciate it

I let whatever is on my mind flow. I'm an open book and Max has been nice enough to not to ban me(one hiccup this last week that was my fault). I learned not to take myself seriously years ago

I never intentionally say anything to upset anyone, I got no hate for anybody. I'd rather laugh at myself than attack any individual for real here.  It's tough though given my nature these days and people being all sensitive about everything

This goes against everything that I stand for. 

[56mehl56]

13 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

My take is that Fields had ALL DAY to throw at Ohio State.  He'll have half the amount of time with the Jets.  People are skeptical he'll be able to make those throws with so little time.

If Fields had all day at OSU then Wilson had all week at BYU with his 25 year old linemen and a cupcake schedule. 

[56mehl56]

14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I think I can explain it a little. Greg Cossell made a point that talent evaluators at the QB position look for 2 things:

Skills and traits.

Skills are things like accuracy, placement, release, timing football knowledge. etc.

Traits are things like height/weight, speed, arm strength, quickness, etc

Some evaluators prefer QBs with better traits because they tend to have a higher ceiling

Some evaluators prefer QBs with better skills that can translate to the NFL level

Obviously every QB is a combination of these two things.

I think what has happened is that if you are comparing Wilson and Fields, Wilson is farther ahead in skills, than Fields is ahead of Wilson in traits. Does not mean people are hating Fields.

FWIW I think that JD is more of a traits guy and might prefer Fields, but Saleh and LaFleur are tied to a specific offensive system which Wilson is better suited for so they will likely be really pro Wilson.

I guess I am in the skills camp. I am not a big traits guy.

 

 

 

I keep reading this and laugh every time I see it propagated all over these forums. The same analysts who make these statements say its also the perfect system for Sam because he doesn't have to think and this offense makes it easier to get rid of the ball quickly.  So what's the biggest knock (which IMO is absolutely false) on Fields - he doesn't get rid of the ball quickly enough or doesn't "process" quick enough.  If the system is a fit for Sam its a fit for Fields  and I'd argue it's really a fit for any QB especially one coming in as a first time NFL starter.  

[56mehl56]

6 hours ago, sec143dmf said:

Because he is a one read QB and never really went through progressions. He will be a complete bust. Just my opinion. 

This is just completely wrong .Stop taking the word of the so called "experts" and watch  his film with your own eyes. 

[joewilly12]

28 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Just tackle no equipment on asphalt and concrete

I played a few games in a junkyard and landfill. 

[joewilly12]

30 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

so if chris simms should shut up because he wasn't a great qb......and obviously none of us are qualified then i guess max should shut the place down because why the hell are any of us here talking about sh*t we have no right to be talking about and giving out opinions on?

Nope we all give our opinions as fans  we aren't  getting paid for it like Chris Simms.

 

[56mehl56]

5 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Watch the Northwestern game. Under pressure he was bad bad.

How do you think Wilson would have fared against NW and the game plan they utilized against OSU.  NW sold out to prevent Fields from torching them, so much so that they let the OSU RB run for over 300 yards . 

[neckdemon]

11 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Nope we all give our opinions as fans  we aren't  getting paid for it like Chris Simms.

 

a walking contradiction

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

a walking contradiction

You want to follow and believe what Chris Simms says thats up to you. Enjoy. 

[neckdemon]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

You want to follow and believe what Chris Simms says thats up to you. Enjoy. 

i don't even want the jets to take a qb at 2 at all. i want them to keep darnold and either take sewell or trade down. but what i want is irrelevant. the signs point to us probably taking zach wilson at 2. i think chriss simms, irregardless of the fact that he wasn't much of an nfl qb, is a very good qb talent evaluator. so, i take solace in the fact that if we are taking zach wilson, despite what i'd rather have happen, that at least someone who knows wtf he is talking about says the kid really looks legit

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

i don't even want the jets to take a qb at 2 at all. i want them to keep darnold and either take sewell or trade down. but what i want is irrelevant. the signs point to us probably taking zach wilson at 2. i think chriss simms, irregardless of the fact that he wasn't much of an nfl qb, is a very good qb talent evaluator. so, i take solace in the fact that if we are taking zach wilson, despite what i'd rather have happen, that at least someone who knows wtf he is talking about says the kid really looks legit

I agree. Everyone has opinions on what the NY Jets should do with the #2 pick, who the best QB is, why we should keep or trade Sam Darnold. 

I want the best decision to be made we get a franchise QB and start winning games here and turn into a competitive NFL team and not a bottom feeder. 

I have no clue who the next QB should be. 

[rex-n-effect]

I don't hate him I'm just not that thrilled with him. I am openly biased against QBs from big football programs because it's tough to see whether those QBs are really capable of the same high level performance when there isn't a disparity in talent and speed to help you win games and conceal errors. (See Chip Kelly's time in the NFL.) There's a reason why Ohio State has a long history of winning seasons but not of NFL QBs playing QB. (Plenty go on to become WRs or...punter.) We already have that kind of QB in Sam Darnold and had it in Sanchez.

I'm not entirely in love with Wilson either but he played well with less talent around him. There is more potential that he elevates the team than requiring the team to elevate him. 

[Dunnie]

I admittedly don’t watch much college football so my exposure to and opinions of college players is limited - I did however see Ohio State v Clemson and Fields looked awesome - in the Championship game he looked mediocre at best - can the naysayers help me understand why he’s a bad choice at 2 if we keep the pick and jettison Darnold?
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

No hate .. I have him even w Wilson... which to take is a personal style choice.

I like Wilson... but dont hate Fields.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

There is more potential that he elevates the team than requiring the team to elevate him. 

Wilson,Fields,Lance,Jones  play the QB position and game with so much fire,energy and speed something we haven't seen here in awhile. 

Watching Sam Darnold and the NY Jets offense was like watching slow motion football. 

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

58 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I played a few games in a junkyard and landfill. 

Either what you said you did didn't happen or what I said didn't happen. I'll leave it to you to guess which one.

[varjet]

I think, at least for me, the general pre-conception is that QBs from Ohio State benefitted greatly from their system, and psychologically they have not adapted to the NFL well.  So there is a bias against them.

You could have said the same thing about Deshaun Watson.   Who did he take over from?  Tajd Boyd?

Here are the last 10 years of Ohio State QBs:

Dwayne Haskins, J.T. Barrett, Cardale Jones, Braxton Miller, Joe Bauserman, Terrell Pryor.  

[jago]

don't good coaches fit the system to the talent?
is this not a reason gase was canned?
if the braintrust says fields is the goods, they will tailor it to him.

[k-met57]

5 hours ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

Parcells was a mediocre lineman and Belichick actually never played football he played p**** lacrosse lol. 

But I do totally understand where you're coming from. nobody expects Championship chess players or submarine commanders during wartime to be able to knock the piss out of people physically.

In fact the mental and coaching aspect of pro football is what intrigues me the most and I find most attractive about the sport.

exactly right. chris simms obv understands the game, grew up in it, playing it, etc... the fact that he wasnt commited enough or maybe talented enough to be aaron rodgers....doesnt say anything about his ability to understand what makes a player.

[56mehl56]

42 minutes ago, varjet said:

I think, at least for me, the general pre-conception is that QBs from Ohio State benefitted greatly from their system, and psychologically they have not adapted to the NFL well.  So there is a bias against them.

You could have said the same thing about Deshaun Watson.   Who did he take over from?  Tajd Boyd?

Here are the last 10 years of Ohio State QBs:

Dwayne Haskins, J.T. Barrett, Cardale Jones, Braxton Miller, Joe Bauserman, Terrell Pryor.  

Last 10 Years BYU QB's  besides Wilson:

Riley Nelson, Jake Heaps, Taysom Hill, Tanner Mangum 

Last 10 Years Texas Tech QB's beside Mahomes:

Taylor Potts, Seth Doege, Davis Webb, Jett Duffey

[joewilly12]

56 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Either what you said you did didn't happen or what I said didn't happen. I'll leave it to you to guess which one.

I wore #3 back in the day. 

[peebag]

15 hours ago, neckdemon said:

watch his highlights.....almost every throw is with him having tons of time and throwing to a ridiculously open receiver. the concern is that you don't that type of time and those types of open receivers in the nfl too often

Rewatched the 2020 Rams game this past week.  The commentators said Darnold had to get rid of the in less the 2.5 seconds to be successful against the Rams defense.  He was lucky to get a flat 2 seconds.

Oh and George Andrews sucks.

[Philc1]

Typical one read Ohio St QB who gets to throw to wide open WRs that will be all pro in the NFL

 

whats not to love?

[rex-n-effect]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Wilson,Fields,Lance,Jones  play the QB position and game with so much fire,energy and speed something we haven't seen here in awhile. 

Watching Sam Darnold and the NY Jets offense was like watching slow motion football. 

Agree with all of this but the same kind of things were said about Darnold. All the big college programs have QBs that look great in that arena and that's why college football is a lot of fun to watch. When those QBs show up in the NFL it doesn't always translate because college football is designed to take advantage of disparity between physical talent and expertise. NFL teams have way more parity which makes it hard to play well like that. It's easy to look great when you're throwing to future NFL WRs defended by future insurance salesmen. 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

Agree with all of this but the same kind of things were said about Darnold. All the big college programs have QBs that look great in that arena and that's why college football is a lot of fun to watch. When those QBs show up in the NFL it doesn't always translate because college football is designed to take advantage of disparity between physical talent and expertise. NFL teams have way more parity which makes it hard to play well like that. It's easy to look great when you're throwing to future NFL WRs defended by future insurance salesmen. 

The NY Jets unfortunately draft those future insurance salesmen. 

Dee Milliner,Kyle Wilson,Calvin Pryor etc 

[Philc1]

Chris Simms on Wilson: “Oh my God greatest QB evaluator ever!!!””

 

Chris Simms on Fields: “Idiot”

 

?

[rex-n-effect]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

I think, at least for me, the general pre-conception is that QBs from Ohio State benefitted greatly from their system, and psychologically they have not adapted to the NFL well.  So there is a bias against them.

You could have said the same thing about Deshaun Watson.   Who did he take over from?  Tajd Boyd?

Here are the last 10 years of Ohio State QBs:

Dwayne Haskins, J.T. Barrett, Cardale Jones, Braxton Miller, Joe Bauserman, Terrell Pryor.  

That you could say the same thing about Watson doesn't disprove the skepticism around high flying college program is unwarranted. Of the eight QBs you listed one is a starter and most of them are either WRs or out of pro football. 1/8 success out of highly successful college QBs is not good odds. Those are fine for mid or late round picks but not early picks. Obviously the players should be judged on the merits of their individual performance but stats and highlight reels plainly do not say enough. 

[Greenbloodblitz]

1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

exactly right. chris simms obv understands the game, grew up in it, playing it, etc... the fact that he wasnt commited enough or maybe talented enough to be aaron rodgers....doesnt say anything about his ability to understand what makes a player.

Totally agree. Not only is old man but the players the coaches the commentators that he grew up around.

I grew up in an Irish family that were very Musical and artistic. It wasn't uncommon to go to sleep listening to people drinking and jamming in the kitchen till the wee hours. It's in my blood. My Dad had songs on the radio 40 years later I did too. My oldest son plays five instruments my brother plays all of my kids sing and dance and are talented and are chomping at the bit to get in the jam room lol!

But that goes with anything if your Dad is a Gearhead and has a shop in the back of the house and he's always working on muscle cars or you're always around the fire department.

Hell I have friends whose families are all commercial fishermen and they know everything about boats. It's just in your blood.

Chris Simms doesn't have to be an English major and speak eloquently to be able to tell you what makes a great quarterback.

[Dunnie]

Chris Simms on Wilson: “Oh my God greatest QB evaluator ever!!!””
 
Chris Simms on Fields: “Idiot”
 

Step down from the ledge Phil

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[JustInFudge]

lmfao Marcus Spears just put Todd McShay to the wood shed and pinned Todd against the wall on the total bull sh*t hypocrisy of the analysis of Fields and Wilson and Todd literally says, "lets be honest, there is no difference".

please make this end

 

[varjet]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

Last 10 Years BYU QB's  besides Wilson:

Riley Nelson, Jake Heaps, Taysom Hill, Tanner Mangum 

Last 10 Years Texas Tech QB's beside Mahomes:

Taylor Potts, Seth Doege, Davis Webb, Jett Duffey

Its a different point though.  Nobody drafted any of the above guys high to be good NFL QBs.  

Several of those OSU QBs were drafted to play QB, and it did not end well.  

[neckdemon]

1 hour ago, peebag said:

Rewatched the 2020 Rams game this past week.  The commentators had to get rid of the in less the 2.5 seconds to be successful against the Rams defense.  He was lucky to get a flat 2 seconds.

Oh and George Andrews sucks.

i'm trying to figure out what you are talking about here. why are we talking about commentators and what did the commentators have to get rid of?
are you saying darnold only had about 2 seconds to throw the ball?

[56mehl56]

43 minutes ago, varjet said:

Its a different point though.  Nobody drafted any of the above guys high to be good NFL QBs.  

Several of those OSU QBs were drafted to play QB, and it did not end well.  

Of the OSU QB's you listed only Haskins was a 1st rd pick , most of the other were 3rd and 4th rounders and some were targeted for other positions. 

[Morrissey]

4 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Yes Chris Simms should shut up. 

I asked you what makes any of us qualified to be judgmental of others, especially NFL quality players. 

usually people who have grown up posting on message boards are capable of disagreeing with people without telling them to shut up. frankly message boards has prepared me for real life... what happen with you?

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Morrissey said:

usually people who have grown up posting on message boards are capable of disagreeing with people without telling them to shut up. frankly message boards has prepared me for real life... what happen with you?

I wasn't telling anyone posting on this message board to shut up I was telling Chris Simms to shut up. 

Read much?