Joe Douglas should part with coveted draft capital to get Deshaun Watson

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

How are these ideas incompatible?

The jets best D player is Quinnen Williams - 1st rounder

The Jets best O player or prospect is Mecki Becton - 1st rounder

The guys picked rounds 2-7 on ALL teams are more of a long shot to be a starter or be really good.

They are incompatible because on the one hand you gents are downgrading the value of 1st rounders so we can get Watson.  On the other hand you are expecting the GM to get all sorts of good players on picks that are a much bigger risk than the 1st rounders.

 

[Dunnie]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

My feeling is that the Jets 2021 roster will perform significantly better with Deshaun Watson than it will with an outright liability in Darnold. 

Deshaun + the sh*tstink roster we have now vs Wilson/Darnold + 4 1st rounders , 3 second rounders over the next two years ... Ill take that latter thank you.

[varjet]

4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Massive needs for the New York Jets football club:

CB

DE pass rusher

WR

TE

RB

OG

C

RT

QB

Also might need a S and ILB

This team has holes all over the roster.

Two OGs and at least 2 LBs. 

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, clayton163v said:

When you have a 500 team, you can take risks to position your team to make a run at the playoffs.  When you are a 2-14 team, you HAVE to use your draft resources carefully and build your team from the inside out.  That means the five offensive lineman and the front seven on defense.  We simply aren't good enough to take risks and throw away young players who were expensive to acquire.   Sam Darnold cost three second round picks and a high first round pick to acquire.  To replace him after three seasons is a poor use of our precious and very limited capitol.  To mortgage the future to replace him is the sort of thing that hamstrings a club for years.  We have four first round picks in the next two years.  Five if you count this year's second rounder at the top of  the round.  We will be a much better team if we hit on those picks.  To do that we need to be boring and predictable.  Not flashy and bold.  We are several seasons away.  I wish it wasn't so, but it is the truth.

You HAVE to have a FQB or a really really good QB on a rookie deal to win a SB. The Jets have that opportunity at #2. Silly to pass it up IMO. Your method leads to "competitive". I do not want competitive. and I am willing to risk failing to get it. Draft Wilson. Daft offense with every other pick to give him the best chance to succeed. Buy the rest of the OL if you have to like Buffalo did. Don't take Wilson and then 3 defensive players. Protect your investment and give him the situation to succeed and Wilson becoming a FQB becomes way more than a 50/50 situation.

[FidelioJet]

No he shouldn’t. 

[Jet2020]

2 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

No it doesn't. But what does make said GM a genius is actually drafting well! Do you actually think I missed that part you f%&-ing boob? Having a GM that understands the importance AND drafts well is Football 101. It's the very job description, dingbat.....

“Have we actually found bla bla bla”

No, we haven’t. We have a GM that drafted one good player with a high draft pick, albeit injury prone, traded away his best DB for two 1st rounders and loaded up on cap space. Sounds familiar? We’ve been there before and not very long ago. He actually drafted a DPoY.

So no, we haven’t found a GM yet. We will soon find out though. 

Also, is “f%&-ing boob” an insult? Did you mean ‘boobs’? Honestly, I enjoy doing it. Do you need a pad? 

[T0mShane]

10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

The jets best D player is Quinnen Williams - 1st rounder

The Jets best O player or prospect is Mecki Becton - 1st rounder

The guys picked rounds 2-7 on ALL teams are more of a long shot to be a starter or be really good.

They are incompatible because on the one hand you gents are downgrading the value of 1st rounders so we can get Watson.  On the other hand you are expecting the GM to get all sorts of good players on picks that are a much bigger risk than the 1st rounders.

 

Agreed that if all three picks are in the top ten or eleven, then that becomes really rich. But they’re not. One is the #2, one is #23, and the other one will be wherever Saleh+Watson bring the team next year, which should be fairly late.
 

For reference, the 23rd pick last year was Kenneth Murray. The year before that, It was Tytus Howard. The year before that, it was Isiah Wynn, the year before that, it was Evan Engram—stop me when I get to a player you wouldn’t give up for Deshaun Watson—The year before that, it was Laquon Treadwell, the year before that, it was Shane Ray, the year before that, it was Dee Ford. The year before that, it was Sharriff Floyd. 

[Jet Nut]

20 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

Joe Douglas values draft picks as much as any general manager in the NFL.

He maximized New York’s draft capital during his first draft running the show last offseason, swinging deals to accumulate a bevy of picks to address numerous needs. He also loaded up the cupboard in the Jamal Adams trade, landing two first-round picks and a third-round selection in this year’s draft.

When asked if he would be willing to part ways with some of the draft picks he meticulously compiled to land a star player– a question linked to Deshaun Watson’s situation with the Texans — Douglas hunkered down and reiterated his stance on the importance of rebuilding through the draft.

“Ultimately for us to get to where the great teams are, the most consistent teams are, you do that through the draft,” Douglas said this week, per the New York Post. “It’s the most team-friendly market in sports. For us to really be that team that’s consistently competing for Super Bowls, we have to hit on our draft picks.”

Those words don’t rule out the possibility of the Jets making a move to bring Watson to the Big Apple, but they don’t exactly inspire confidence in Douglas doing so, either. Giving up multiple high draft picks to facilitate a trade for Watson doesn’t jibe with Douglas’ philosophy of building through the draft, and he doesn’t seem too intent on going against his desired way of returning the Jets to prominence.

There might be a catch that lands Watson in Gotham Green next season, though.

If there is ever a player Douglas should bend his own rules to get, it’s Watson. The 25-year-old is coming off a career season and is arguably a top-five quarterback. Players of his ilk don’t become available every offseason. Considering New York’s long-standing quarterback woes, Douglas should be the first general manager in line to acquire his services.

Having an abundance of draft picks is nice, but the draft has long been proven to be an inexact science. Early returns on Douglas’ first draft class as Jets general manager are encouraging, but there is no guarantee his draft success continues. Any draft pick comes with an element of risk. That’s not the case with Watson, who is a proven commodity.

There is no doubt that Douglas is going to do everything in his power to figure out New York’s quarterback situation this offseason. However, his core football philosophies could stand in his way of choosing the best option to do so. Entrusting Sam Darnold to thrive under Mike LaFleur’s watch and surrounding him with weapons in free agency and the draft is a major roll of the dice. Selecting any quarterback not named Trevor Lawrence with the No. 2 overall pick is as well.

At what price?  How do you know what Houstons initial demand will be.  If they want 4 1's do you make the deal, I wouldnt.  

Its easy to say we have picks use them on Watson but it has to be within reason

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

18 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed that if all three picks are in the top ten or eleven, then that becomes really rich. But they’re not. One is the #2, one is #23, and the other one will be wherever Saleh+Watson bring the team next year, which should be fairly late.
 

For reference, the 23rd pick last year was Kenneth Murray. The year before that, It was Tytus Howard. The year before that, it was Isiah Wynn, the year before that, it was Evan Engram—stop me when I get to a player you wouldn’t give up for Deshaun Watson—The year before that, it was Laquon Treadwell, the year before that, it was Shane Ray, the year before that, it was Dee Ford. The year before that, it was Sharriff Floyd. 

It's much easier to defend the hoarding of draft picks and the "smart" play when you stop at that and don't look at the specific players you'd be losing out on to get the franchise QB.

Even the three most notable names, Shane Ray (he's in Canada now after Denver didn't pick up his option), Sharriff Floyd (he's out of the NFL too) and Dee Ford (two good seasons) are guys you would toss into a volcano if you could to get what could be the best QB in football (if he's not, it's close)

The draft pick hoarders, the smart, thinking guys will never ever be specific because it doesn't suit their agenda. It totally ****s with their idea of the way it should work and it's disturbing to them. It's way easier to talk about delicious delicious draft picks instead of delicious delicious Tytus Howard.

If Joe Douglass passes up an opportunity to trade for Watson and his draft picks are mierda or meh, he's gone. Sam Darnold will not save him.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

It's much easier to defend the hoarding of draft picks and the "smart" play when you stop at that and don't look at the specific players you'd be losing out on to get the franchise QB.

Even the three most notable names, Shane Ray (he's in Canada now after Denver didn't pick up his option), Sharriff Floyd (he's out of the NFL too) and Dee Ford (two good seasons) are guys you would toss into a volcano if you could to get what could be the best QB in football (if he's not, it's close)

The draft pick hoarders, the smart, thinking guys will never ever be specific because it doesn't suit their agenda. It totally ****s with their idea of the way it should work and it's disturbing.

They give the game away when they assert that the “#2 pick is worth three number ones by itself!” and then can’t explain why any team would have to trade three firsts to get Zack Wilson, but it’s insane that the Jets should trade three firsts for Watson 

[JustInFudge]

13 hours ago, T0mShane said:

List the reasons the Texans went 4-12 last year and let me know when you get to Deshaun Watson.

Oh, Tom, the only reason why Watson is good is because of Hopkins.  That's why they didnt make the playoffs for the first time since Watson has been their full time starter and those back to back 10 wins season, division titles, and a playoff win, doesnt matter.  He's a loser without Hopkins who clearly made that team competitive.  

////Looks at the playoffs of 2020, doesnt see DeAndre Hopkins and the Cardinals. 

[Dunnie]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Oh, Tom, the only reason why Watson is good is because of Hopkins.  That's why they didnt make the playoffs for the first time since Watson has been their full time starter and those back to back 10 wins season, division titles, and a playoff win, doesnt matter.  He's a loser without Hopkins who clearly made that team competitive.  

////Looks at the playoffs of 2020, doesnt see DeAndre Hopkins and the Cardinals. 

Hmmm 4-12 QB on sh*tty team get traded to another sh*tty team with less talent and NOW less draft capital and cap space to correct that situation.

How did you do in high school algebra ?

[T0mShane]

11 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Deshaun + the sh*tstink roster we have now vs Wilson/Darnold + 4 1st rounders , 3 second rounders over the next two years ... Ill take that latter thank you.

(We will not have the roster we have now even after a Watson trade.)

[T0mShane]

Just now, Dunnie said:

Hmmm 4-12 QB on sh*tty team get traded to another sh*tty team with less talent and NOW less draft capital and cap space to correct that situation.

How did you do in high school algebra ?

(They would have less draft capital and cap space, but they would still have a sh*tload of draft capital and cap space)

[JustInFudge]

24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed that if all three picks are in the top ten or eleven, then that becomes really rich. But they’re not. One is the #2, one is #23, and the other one will be wherever Saleh+Watson bring the team next year, which should be fairly late.
 

For reference, the 23rd pick last year was Kenneth Murray. The year before that, It was Tytus Howard. The year before that, it was Isiah Wynn, the year before that, it was Evan Engram—stop me when I get to a player you wouldn’t give up for Deshaun Watson—The year before that, it was Laquon Treadwell, the year before that, it was Shane Ray, the year before that, it was Dee Ford. The year before that, it was Sharriff Floyd. 

Yes but Tom, you cannot be a competitive team if you just trade away 1st round picks left and right.  There is only one way to build

////looks at the Rams, who play in one of the most competitive divisions in Football, notices they've made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years, see's that they've given up 5 1st round picks and chuckles.

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Hmmm 4-12 QB on sh*tty team get traded to another sh*tty team with less talent and NOW less draft capital and cap space to correct that situation.

How did you do in high school algebra ?

My high school algebra thought me to use all the data available to add to the equation and the out come is = I dont give a **** about 1 stupid ******* year where the whole stupid ******* ship was sinking yet Watson was a top 3 QB in the NFL because I'm smart enough to see this year was an anomaly for him dating back to when he played in back to back National Championships in college as well. 

Straight up bro, this board has thrown around the stupidest sh*t I've ever read this offseason.  Hands down some of the most laughable, ridiculous, uneducated uniformed nonsense but I will say confidently that idea that Deshaun Watson isnt a winner because of 1 season, is the dumbest ******* take I've ever heard.

 

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

54 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They give the game away when they assert that the “#2 pick is worth three number ones by itself!” and then can’t explain why any team would have to trade three firsts to get Zack Wilson, but it’s insane that the Jets should trade three firsts for Watson 

Exactly. It's an argument that defeats itself.

Who in their right mind would give up three firsts for Zach Wilson? Or Penei Sewell. Or Chase Young (as good as he is). Or Nick Bosa. Etc.

You're dealing with a commodity that is unknown. I'd rather have the known. At the most important position in sports. I don't understand why that is so controversial and seen as foolish. You're talking percentage points when discussing the bust rate of mid to late first rounders as opposed to second rounders, third rounders vs a success rate of 100 percent.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Yes but Tom, you cannot be a competitive team if you just trade away 1st round picks left and right.  There is only one way to build

////looks at the Rams, who play in one of the most competitive divisions in Football, notices they've made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years, see's that they've given up 5 1st round picks and chuckles.

These are all diehard football and Jets fans coming out against trading draft picks for a rock-solid MVP-level QB who is 25 years old. These guys have been through decades worth of drafts, seen all the busts, all the JAGs, all the time wasted on propping up players who ended up sucking, yet they’re still locked in on the idea that trading a couple of those draft picks is a bridge too far for them? These are the same dudes who end up trading blowjobs for chips in casino bathrooms because they feel like a slot machine is about to hit. Like, bros, you can pay a little bit extra and guarantee yourself a hit. No need to get jizz all over your goatee at Foxwoods.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

My high school algebra thought me to use all the data available to add to the equation and the out come is = I dont give a **** about 1 stupid ******* year where the whole stupid ******* ship was sinking yet Watson was a top 3 QB in the NFL because I'm smart enough to see this year was an anomaly for him dating back to when he played in back to back National Championships in college as well. 

Straight up bro, this board has thrown around the stupidest sh*t I've ever read this offseason.  Hands down some of the most laughable, ridiculous, uneducated uniformed nonsense but I will say confidently that idea that Deshaun Watson isnt a winner because of 1 season, is the dumbest ******* take I've ever heard.

 

Some posts are really fun to read for various reasons. This is one of them.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

These are all diehard football and Jets fans coming out against trading draft picks for a rock-solid MVP-level QB who is 25 years old. These guys have been through decades worth of drafts, seen all the busts, all the JAGs, all the time wasted on propping up players who ended up sucking, yet they’re still locked in on the idea that trading a couple of those draft picks is a bridge too far for them? These are the same dudes who end up trading blowjobs for chips in casino bathrooms because they feel like a slot machine is about to hit. Like, bros, you can pay a little bit extra and guarantee yourself a hit. No need to get jizz all over your goatee at Foxwoods.

And here is another.

[Dunnie]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

My high school algebra thought me to use all the data available to add to the equation and the out come is = I dont give a **** about 1 stupid ******* year where the whole stupid ******* ship was sinking yet Watson was a top 3 QB in the NFL because I'm smart enough to see this year was an anomaly for him dating back to when he played in back to back National Championships in college as well. 

Straight up bro, this board has thrown around the stupidest sh*t I've ever read this offseason.  Hands down some of the most laughable, ridiculous, uneducated uniformed nonsense but I will say confidently that idea that Deshaun Watson isnt a winner because of 1 season, is the dumbest ******* take I've ever heard.

 

Again ... no one said he isnt a good QB .. as a matter of fact .. quite the opposte ...  

The point being made :

A good QB on a sh*tty ass team = sh*tty ass team.

A good prospect on a team built on solid draft pick hits = good possibility for competative team perenially.

 

that is all.

 

 

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Again ... no one said he isnt a good QB .. as a matter of fact .. quite the opposte ...  

The point being made :

A good QB on a sh*tty ass team = sh*tty ass team.

A good prospect on a team built on solid draft pick hits = good possibility for competative team perenially.

 

that is all.

 

 

Define perennially.  

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Again ... no one said he isnt a good QB .. as a matter of fact .. quite the opposte ...  

The point being made :

A good QB on a sh*tty ass team = sh*tty ass team.

A good prospect on a team built on solid draft pick hits = good possibility for competative team perenially.

 

that is all.

 

 

If the Jets trade for Deshaun Watson and go 4-12 next year, the cause will not have been that you traded for Deshaun Watson. 

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Again ... no one said he isnt a good QB .. as a matter of fact .. quite the opposte ...  

The point being made :

A good QB on a sh*tty ass team = sh*tty ass team.

A good prospect on a team built on solid draft pick hits = good possibility for competative team perenially.

 

that is all.

 

 

Yeah, well, I disagree.  You're a Jets fans and you think it's this easy?  lol  How many times have you seen it fail?  I'm 41, I've never seen it work for the Jets.

Getting the guaranteed thing is a much more solid bet to being competitive, year in year out.  There is a reason why the teams with the best QB's consistently make the playoffs. 

And again, I dont know why this doesnt register with a lot of you in this conversation.  It's not about 2021.  It's not about Watson coming in and making the Jets instant contenders.  It's about securing the most important position in all of sports with a top 5 player in the league for the next 15 years.  My assumption is that in 15 years, the Jets will have a chance to add talent.  The beauty is, the Jets have 17 picks the next 2 season, 8 in the top 100, they also have the 2nd most cap space in the league.  So, if JD is worth a sh*t, it's not even a challenge to build a winner quickly around Watson.  In fact, it makes his job easier.

 

[32EBoozer]

20 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Merely the same stuff posted over and over again by the 'All in on Watson' group on these forums.

And the same unanswered questions are not explained.

- Great QB, no talent team = 4 wins

- Draft is a crap shoot so no big loss with all of those 1st rounders!  Build around Watson on a talentless team with all those 2nd and 3rd rounders!

- After the trade and our remaining cap space that has taken a hit, sign ALL the best FA!

- Lawrence is awesome sauce! None of the other QBs are any good!

  Year 1 with Wilson/ Fields

Year 2 with Fields Wilson....... “Needs to cook a little longer”

 Year 3

 

 

 Year 1 Watson

 Year 2 Watson & Beerfish in the stands

 Year 3 Watson & the Jets

 

[jetophile]

9 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Define perennially.  

Wait, I got this one. The Jets suck on an annual basis perrenially. I'll have to work out semi-annual somehow because they usually suck extra hard in December.

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If the Jets trade for Deshaun Watson and go 4-12 next year, the cause will not have been that you traded for Deshaun Watson. 

How many wins does the coaching staff turnover create?  Adam Gase was the worst thing ever, right?  So Saleh should at least get this team a few more wins just because he's better, right?  Ok, now give him Watson instead of Darnold or insert rookie QB. 

Who's he going to have a better year with?  lmfao

this board sometimes...

[GreenFish]

20 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

And how exactly is that? I take it you're referring to what you view as the minimum price necessary to acquire Watson? There is a point when it becomes no longer a good trade, of course.  However,  I think there is a happy medium where the Texans are happy with their return on the trade and the Jets can still build around their new franchise player.

What’s the cost that you think is a happy medium? And what’s the trade where you’re like that’s too much?

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

19 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Again ... no one said he isnt a good QB .. as a matter of fact .. quite the opposte ...  

The point being made :

A good QB on a sh*tty ass team = sh*tty ass team.

A good prospect on a team built on solid draft pick hits = good possibility for competative team perenially.

 

that is all.

 

 

May I have an example of the perennially good teams that have had mediocre quarterback play?

[Dunnie]

31 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Define perennially.  

perennially : in a way that continues for a long or apparently infinite time; permanently.

[Dunnie]

20 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

May I have an example of the perennially good teams that have had mediocre quarterback play?

I am not saying that ... I am saying is that you need a solid stocked team firts .. then a greta QB. SO developing one as you build a roster is the best course of action. Not sucking up all the cap space as you try build.

One of my favorite QBs was great .. but not GOAT great ... Bradshaw.

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Dunnie

[FidelioJet]

23 minutes ago, JiF said:

How many wins does the coaching staff turnover create?  Adam Gase was the worst thing ever, right?  So Saleh should at least get this team a few more wins just because he's better, right?  Ok, now give him Watson instead of Darnold or insert rookie QB. 

Who's he going to have a better year with?  lmfao

this board sometimes...

Totally agree.   I think Saleh and Watson (instead of Darnold and Gase) and this crappy team (which we can't upgrade) you probably increase wins 100%...very feasible I think.  So we go from 2 wins to 4.

Maybe 5 if things falls right.

[MindOverMatter]

Some of you guys are overvaluing the everliving sh*t out of these draft picks. Yes, Quinnen and Mekhi are both good players and also 1st round picks. 

Now go back a few more years and look at the othet selections. Trading 3 1sts for Watson, given the Jets current situation, is a steal TBH.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

9 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I am not saying that ... I am saying is that you need a solid stocked team firts .. then a greta QB. SO developing one as you build a roster is the best course of action. Not sucking up all the cap space as you try build.

But there are a couple examples : One of my favorite QBs was great .. but not GOAT great ... Bradshaw.

 

Yeah, but Dunnie, when are you going to get this great QB? Who is going to be up for another contract by the time you get him? What if you don't build a great team but just an okay one? Who plays QB in the meantime? What are you paying that guy and when does HIS contract expire? Maybe you can stick with this guy since he's not very good but good enough to win with? Yeah screw it, let's just stick to this guy and maybe improve the team even MORE, why waste the draft pick? Yeah, I guess,  but do you remember Sanchez and the Jets? One of the best defenses in football, best OLine, best running game, very good receivers and a good pass catching tight end. How long did THAT last. Yeah, you're right but maybe we can do it even BETTER, Joe.

To your Terry Bradshaw point: Terry Bradshaw played in a very different era. You know that.

[MindOverMatter]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

Totally agree.   I think Saleh and Watson (instead of Darnold and Gase) and this crappy team (which we can't upgrade) you probably increase wins 100%...very feasible I think.  So we go from 2 wins to 4.

Maybe 5 if things falls right.

Can't upgrade? Are we using all our draft picks to trade for Watson, or maybe all of our cap space to sign him?

No we aren't. If JD is what most of us think he is as a GM, he will have plenty of ammo to improve the team.