Take it or leave it offer to the Texans

[Rhg1084]

1 minute ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

So he's going to Miami then. Cool! We can eat around that part of the pizza and go undefeated in the other twelve games a year for the next ten years.

Listen, if they determine Wilson is the real deal then you let him go. We can build the team around all our picks. 

[Jet2020]

21 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Mahomes is statistically better in most ways, but one could argue that his coaching and weapons are far superior to what Watson works with.  

Personally, I would rank the QBs Mahomes - Watson - Rodgers taking age into account.  Wilson is showing cracks around the edges lately and while he's still very good, at 32 I'm not spending a lot to get him.  Rodgers probably has 5 more years of being awesome which is why I have him 3rd.  He is probably the best passer who ever played the game.  

Not really take it or leave it offer. More like a “here, use us however you like, just leave the money on the table” type of a deal. 

[JiF]

I'd call and start with this years 1st's and/or their choice of next 1st's....and if they want Sam Darnold too, fine, deal.

I dont think it takes more then that, especially if Wilson is truly worth all this hype.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

1 minute ago, Rhg1084 said:

Listen, if they determine Wilson is the real deal then you let him go. We can build the team around all our picks. 

Sure, but it's been the case that to be consistently successful you need to have the quarterback. Players come and go, the team doesn't remain the team for very long and suddenly you're building a new team. The QB never changes, however, you got that part down.

[New York Mick]

40 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Watson might be the best QB in football. There's an argument to be made that he's better than Mahomes.

Can I get your weed dealers number?

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

Just now, New York Mick said:

Can I get your weed dealers number?

917 867 5309 tell him the Count sent you

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

1 minute ago, New York Mick said:

Can I get your weed dealers number?

He was better than Mahomes last year with a worse offensive line, no running game, a fired coaching staff as opposed to a hall of fame one, no Travis Kelce to throw to, no Tyreek Hill AND lost one of the best 2 or 3 receivers in football.

He beat Mahomes by 4 percentage points in completions, had a higher passer rating, beat him by almost a yard (11 percent) in yards per attempt.

The only way you can say there is no argument is if you're basing your opinion only on perception.

[genot]

37 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

He was better than Mahomes last year with a worse offensive line, no running game, a fired coaching staff as opposed to a hall of fame one, no Travis Kelce to throw to, no Tyreek Hill AND lost one of the best 2 or 3 receivers in football.

He beat Mahomes by 4 percentage points in completions, had a higher passer rating, beat him by almost a yard in yards per attempt.

The only way you can say there is no argument is if you're basing your opinion only on perception.

He was the most sacked Qb over the last 4 years. Watson is a good QB.  Sacks though, like. Penalties, kill drives.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

1 minute ago, genot said:

He was the most sacked Qb over the last 4 years. Watson is a good QB.  Sacks though, like. Penalties, kill drives.

He must be ten times better than Mahomes. I've seen what Mahomes does under pressure.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Of course not, that wasn’t my premise nor my point. And the jets aren’t ready to compete right now either.

Sure sounded like the premise and the point.  Cant even begin to figure out how it wasnt, lol

Its 2021 and NFL teams can turn it around quickly.  Would like to know how everyone knows that it will take a long time to turn it around.  That we cant have a QB now for some reason.  Because its so easy to find a FQB that you can pass on one you think could get it done.  I mean we've had how many FQBs since Namath work out? 

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'd call and start with this years 1st's and/or their choice of next 1st's....and if they want Sam Darnold too, fine, deal.

I dont think it takes more then that, especially if Wilson is truly worth all this hype.

Wow, that is a massive package. That would be by far the most ever traded for another player before when you factor in the value of 2 overall. 

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Wow, that is a massive package. That would be by far the most ever traded for another player before when you factor in the value of 2 overall. 

To the Cowboys:

• LB Jesse Solomon
• LB David Howard
• CB Issiac Holt
• DE Alex Stewart
• Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990
• Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990
• Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990
• Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Solomon)
• Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Howard)
• Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Holt)
• Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (condition met by trading away Nelson)
• Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Stewart)

To the Vikings:

• RB Herschel Walker
• Dallas's 3rd round pick in 1990
• San Diego's 5th round pick in 1990
• Dallas's 10th round pick in 1990
• Dallas's 3rd round pick in 1991

[genot]

4 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

He must be ten times better than Mahomes. I've seen what Mahomes does under pressure.

Some QB's get sacked because they hold rhe ball too long. You know that, right 

[rangerous]

38 minutes ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

All this talk of building the team through the draft is laughable.  Joe Douglas has yet to prove he can build a team through the draft...have the Jets ever built a team through the draft?  I'm not talking about hitting on a couple of players here and there, I'm talking about building a solid team through the draft and the answer is no.  Watson doesn't have to prove a thing...and for all you stat guys, his stats speak for themselves.  If I were a betting guy and I'm not, I'm putting my money on a proven thing and not draft picks.  Jets can still build a sold team through FA and whatever draft picks we have left if you truly believe JD is this draft guru.  

let's see, i hope you are at least understanding that douglas has only controlled a single draft so far and this past season was a mess all around with gase as coach, the virus, and lack of real training time.  and let's not forget how many "misses" were on the team.  clearing away the dead wood is just as important as it is to bringing in superior draft picks.  as for building through the draft versus free agency, neither way to the extreme works.  there are just too many misses in the draft and every team needs to churn at least 10 players.  a free agent team would greatly exceed the salary cap.  so there has to be a mixture and about the only thing douglas can control is how much he allocates to each position.  sure watson is tempting because he is a top flight player but he also brings along some serious cost implications that will have to be addressed.

as for douglas, i'm going to be optimistic until i'm not.  so far so good.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Sure sounded like the premise and the point.  Cant even begin to figure out how it wasnt

Its 2021, NFL teams can turn it around quickly.  Would like to know how everyone knows that it will take a long time to turn it around.  That we cant have a QB now for some reason.  Because its so easy to find a FQ, you can pass on one you think could get it done.  I mean we've had how many since Namath work out? 

 

Here’s the bottom line, if we don’t have a good coach and a good GM, getting Watson gets us nothing at all.
 

I believe trading a massive package for Watson makes it hard to put a quality team around him considering how much you also have to pay him. 
 

Watson is an excellent QB and I would love to have him for a reasonable price. Keep in mind he has had two ACL surgeries already and relies heavily on his mobility as he is not a pocket QB and he doesn’t have a great arm at all.

Fields has everything Watson has and more physically with good knees, is bigger and stronger and has a far better arm and is incredibly accurate.

day 1 no way fields is as good, but day 1 with fields has a lot more around him. Day 1 with Watson the jets are not a serious contender. Best case is it takes a few years to put enough around Watson to be a serious contender. By that time I believe fields will be very bit as good if not better. And will have more around him.

[rangerous]

4 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

To the Cowboys:

• LB Jesse Solomon
• LB David Howard
• CB Issiac Holt
• DE Alex Stewart
• Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990
• Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990
• Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990
• Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Solomon)
• Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Howard)
• Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Holt)
• Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (condition met by trading away Nelson)
• Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Stewart)

To the Vikings:

• RB Herschel Walker
• Dallas's 3rd round pick in 1990
• San Diego's 5th round pick in 1990
• Dallas's 10th round pick in 1990
• Dallas's 3rd round pick in 1991

yep, and it got the cow girls 3 superbowls.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

4 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

To the Cowboys:

• LB Jesse Solomon
• LB David Howard
• CB Issiac Holt
• DE Alex Stewart
• Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990
• Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990
• Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990
• Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Solomon)
• Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Howard)
• Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Holt)
• Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (condition met by trading away Nelson)
• Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Stewart)

To the Vikings:

• RB Herschel Walker
• Dallas's 3rd round pick in 1990
• San Diego's 5th round pick in 1990
• Dallas's 10th round pick in 1990
• Dallas's 3rd round pick in 1991

I don’t feel like looking it up, but on a point basis I still don’t think that’s even close to what we are talking about when you include 2 overall.

[JiF]

1 minute ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Wow, that is a massive package. That would be by far the most ever traded for another player before when you factor in the value of 2 overall. 

Is it?  If you were taking a QB at #2, all you're doing it is ensuring it with another 1st which is simply half of the Adams deal.  And you dont necessarily know what next years 1st is going to be depending on Seattle and Jets season.  It could be be massive or it could be just what it takes to get it done. The Rams just traded 2 1st's for Stafford, so I dont think it's like insane or anything.  And it leaves the Jets with 2 next year or at least 1 each of the next 2 years, which is great.  sh*ts all over the, "cant build around him" talk. 

Say they gamble and we'll take your next year's 1.  Cool.  Now we just drafted Watson at #2 overall and we have #23 and #34 overall?  The Jets go land Thuney/Robinson/+ and now they're an 8-8/9-7 team.  That pick is what, late teens?  You losing sleep over that?  ofcourse not.

 

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, JiF said:

Is it?  If you were taking a QB at #2, all you're doing it is ensuring it with another 1st which is simply half of the Adams deal.  And you dont necessarily know what next years 1st is going to be depending on Seattle and Jets season.  It could be be massive or it could be just what it takes to get it done. The Rams just traded 2 1st's for Stafford, so I dont think it's like insane or anything.  And it leaves the Jets with 2 next year or at least 1 each of the next 2 years, which is great.  sh*ts all over the, "cant build around him" talk. 

Say they gamble and we'll take your next year's 1.  Cool.  Now we just drafted Watson at #2 overall and we have #23 and #34 overall?  The Jets go land Thuney/Robinson/+ and now they're an 8-8/9-7 team.  That pick is what, late teens?  You losing sleep over that?  ofcourse not.

 

 

Wait, you said both firsts this year and a first next year. That’s not what your replying with here.

[JiF]

Just now, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Wait, you said both firsts this year and a first next year. That’s not what your replying with here.

You misunderstood then.  I said I would start w/ this years 1st round picks or #2 overall and next years 1st, ours, not Seattle's. 

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

4 minutes ago, genot said:

Some QB's get sacked because they hold rhe ball too long. You know that, right 

You may be right, but I'm not going to take your word for it. You'll have to show me empirical evidence.

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, JiF said:

You misunderstood then.  I said I would start w/ this years 1st round picks or #2 overall and next years 1st, ours, not Seattle's. 

Ok, sorry, yeah, I misunderstood. I thought you started with both 1st this year. Your proposal is more than id like, but I could live with that and would be excited to see Watson as our QB.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:

With all this hype around Zach Wilson being a stud puts Douglas in a real position of power with any negotiating with Houston. Honestly, if Wilson is the real deal he’s being hyped up to be Douglas doesn’t have to offer much more than pick 2 in trade talks. It would put Houston in a tough position cause obviously they want to replace Watson with a viable QB and if all the other guys are question marks Wilson should be their main target. But the talk of giving up 3 or 4 1st round picks is a pipe dream. Douglas could say “here’s pick 2 that’s all you’re getting”. If you don’t want that have fun picking Trey Lance or whoever.

What makes you think a QB who has had 2 surgeries  in the last 2 years, played against all unranked teams except Coastal Carolina  and lost  to them, and for the most part has never played under duress  from a pass rush has no question marks?

[genot]

2 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

You may be right, but I'm not going to take your word for it. You'll have to show me empirical evidence.

 

He has always been in the top #3 of QB's taking sacks. 5 years running. Can 'be just his line. Real good QB. Takes too many sacks.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

9 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I don’t feel like looking it up, but on a point basis I still don’t think that’s even close to what we are talking about when you include 2 overall.

3 1sts, 3 2nds, a 3rd and a 6th is not even close to number two overall?

The "we have to trade down and get a haul" for number two just jizzed themselves.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

3 1sts, 3 2nds, a 3rd and a 6th is not even close to number two overall?

The "we have to trade down and get a haul" for number two just jizzed themselves.

Your also including 2 other 1’s besides 2 overall and a player worth a 3rd or higher. 

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

12 minutes ago, genot said:

He has always been in the top #3 of QB's taking sacks. 5 years running.

Well this is interesting since he's played 3.4 years worth of football over four seasons, but okay. Not sure I can trust what you say about how long he takes to throw in the pocket when you don't even know how long he's been in the league.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

1 minute ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Your also including 2 other 1’s besides 2 overall and a player worth a 3rd or higher. 

No, there are no 1sts coming back to the Cowboys. Not even a second. Two thirds a fifth and a tenth...and the player.

Taking away the picks that negate each other you are left with:

LB Jesse Solomon LB David Howard CB Issiac Holt DE Alex Stewart Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Solomon) Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Howard) Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Holt) I took off the tenth rounder from Minnesota because that's absurd. That's an equipment manager or something.

RB Herschel Walker San Diego's 5th round pick in 1990

[genot]

7 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Well this is interesting since he's played 3.4 years worth of football over four seasons, but okay.

Give me a break Count. Last 4 years. I misspoke. Point is the same 

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

7 minutes ago, genot said:

Give me a break Count. Last 4 years. I misspoke. Point is the same 

Well I say he's had no time to throw in the pocket because he's had bad offensive lines. As a matter of fact, it's a miracle he's been as good as he is considering. Can you prove me wrong?

[GreenFish]

At some point we have to hit on a QB, no? Sanchez...no. Darnold...no. Wilson..?. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

9 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

No, there are no 1sts coming back to the Cowboys. Not even a second. Two thirds a fifth and a tenth...and the player.

Taking away the picks that negate each other you are left with:

LB Jesse Solomon LB David Howard CB Issiac Holt DE Alex Stewart Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Solomon) Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Howard) Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Holt) I took off the tenth rounder from Minnesota because that's absurd. That's an equipment manager or something.

RB Herschel Walker San Diego's 5th round pick in 1990

I’m talking about us giving up 3 firsts including 2 overall

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

3 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I’m talking about us giving up 3 firsts including 2 overall

You're also talking about the difference between a running back and one of the best players at the most important position in sports.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

You're also talking about the difference between a running back and one of the best players at the most important position in sports.

Yes, but at the time RB was every bit as important as QB

and as great as Walker was, Cowboys got the far better end of that trade

[genot]

6 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Well I say he's had no time to throw in the pocket because he's had bad offensive lines. As a matter of fact, it's a miracle he's been as good as he is considering. Can you prove me wrong?

Im not trying too argue. Watson's sack totals have been much discussed. Type in the google search bar"Watson been sacked too much. Decide for yourself. Watson is very good. I've said that. The only reason i ever brought it up was because of your comparison too Mahomes. Yes, Watson's numbers are on par with Mahomes. Taking sacks has been a long standing issue with Watson. It hasn't with Mahomes