Take it or leave it offer to the Texans

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

3 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Yes, but at the time RB was every bit as important as QB

There's never been any position in any time in any sport that was as important as QB in NFL 2020.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

There's never been any position in any time in any sport that was as important as QB in NFL 2020.

I’m not disagreeing, my point was trading three 1’s including 2 overall and more is an astronomical amount never seen before from a value standpoint. 

[HawkeyeJet]

Is it too much to ask to preface if it's a personal opinion or report of some sort in a thread title?

We live in a society here people.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

14 minutes ago, genot said:

Im not trying too argue. Watson's sack totals have been much discussed. Type in the google search bar"Watson been sacked too much. Decide for yourself. Watson is very good. I've said that. The only reason i ever brought it up was because of your comparison too Mahomes. Yes, Watson's numbers are on par with Mahomes. Taking sacks has been a long standing issue with Watson. It hasn't with Mahomes

Actually, you're right. I didn't think about that aspect.  I still think given the same circumstances, Watson would be comparable to Mahomes. There are things to consider that will have to stay in the realm of imagination unless you REALLY want to dive into it, which I don't.

Are guys getting open? How much does it help having a wide open TE staring at you down the middle of the field every other play? Is it the play design that is contributing to not getting the ball out in time?

Are there great QB's who have taken a lot of sacks? I don't know. I'd have to look it up.

[flgreen]

1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

I know I'm in the vast minority but there is something satisfying watching your team come together mainly through the draft get better and win the Bowl. The 1968 season and the Jan 12 Bowl win was special. Now everyone wants to buy the best players using cash or draft picks..

There was no free agents in 1968-69.  The draft was really the only way to build a team unless you were going to out bid the NFL, which in a way was FA, but nowhere near the impact of todays FA.  At the time going to the AFL was looked upon as going down to the minors.

 

A lot of Jets players were drafted by the Jets, but a lot of big contributers were drafted by other teams.  The Giants, and Colts were a real help.

Don Maynard-------Giants

Winston Hill---------Colts

Dave Herman--------Giants

Ralph Baker ----------Steelers

Al Atkinson-----------Bills

Larry Grantham-------Colts

Johnny Sample-------Colts

Bake Turner-----------Colts

Jim Turner-------------Redskins

Billy Joe---------------Broncos

Curley Johnson-------Steelers

Bill Mathis-------------9ers

Carl McAdams---------Cards

John Neidert----------Bengals

Babe Parilli------------Packers

 

 

 

[NIGHT STALKER]

55 minutes ago, rangerous said:

let's see, i hope you are at least understanding that douglas has only controlled a single draft so far and this past season was a mess all around with gase as coach, the virus, and lack of real training time.  and let's not forget how many "misses" were on the team.  clearing away the dead wood is just as important as it is to bringing in superior draft picks.  as for building through the draft versus free agency, neither way to the extreme works.  there are just too many misses in the draft and every team needs to churn at least 10 players.  a free agent team would greatly exceed the salary cap.  so there has to be a mixture and about the only thing douglas can control is how much he allocates to each position.  sure watson is tempting because he is a top flight player but he also brings along some serious cost implications that will have to be addressed.

as for douglas, i'm going to be optimistic until i'm not.  so far so good.

See, that's my issue.  I have no idea how JD will do in the draft...he has no pelts on the wall so to speak.  I'm still scratching my head with pick number 4 in his first draft.  Would have loved to have seen at least a few plays what this kid could or couldn't do under center.

[Rhg1084]

53 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

What makes you think a QB who has had 2 surgeries  in the last 2 years, played against all unranked teams except Coastal Carolina  and lost  to them, and for the most part has never played under duress  from a pass rush has no question marks?

Wilson is a blue chip QB prospect up there with Lawrence. The other QBs are a tier below Wilson and Trevor

[flgreen]

1 hour ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

You may be right, but I'm not going to take your word for it. You'll have to show me empirical evidence.

 

 

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

2 minutes ago, flgreen said:

 

"Oohhhh, tall ghost. Tall tall ghost"

[varjet]

I don’t see the Texans taking Wilson.  Their fan base will not like him.  Fields I can see more on the Texans.  They  run a more college-like offense.  

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

25 minutes ago, flgreen said:

 

"They keep saying my field vision isn't good. I don't know what they're talking about. I'm absolutely dismantling the Falcons tonight."

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

1 hour ago, flgreen said:

 

"Hello, God? It's me, Margaret."

[flgreen]

18 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

"Oohhhh, tall ghost. Tall tall ghost"

Ryan Clark

@Realrclark25

·

Oct 1, 2020

Well guys it’s all come full circle for my guy Sam Darnold... last year he saw Ghost & this year he got sacked by one. Dang horror story continues. Poor baby stuck in a nightmare.

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

27 minutes ago, flgreen said:

 

"Hey, look, it's John Candy."

[flgreen]

2 minutes ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

"God? It's me, Margaret."

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:

Wilson is a blue chip QB prospect up there with Lawrence. The other QBs are a tier below Wilson and Trevor

I don't  think Wilson is a sure thing and he certainly  is not on Trevor's tier. 

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

See, that's my issue.  I have no idea how JD will do in the draft...he has no pelts on the wall so to speak.  I'm still scratching my head with pick number 4 in his first draft.  Would have loved to have seen at least a few plays what this kid could or couldn't do under center.

yep.  i get it.  i know douglas' best attribute so far is that he's not mccagnan.  objectively that doesn't say much.  but it does seem like he made some good picks in the last draft and he did bring in saleh and help get rid of gase.  and then he also removed some cancers like trumaine and adams.  so there are some good things going on.  as for morgan, i think we all would've like to see what he could do since he was a pretty high pick for a project qb.  maybe we'll see soon enough what douglas saw.  but honestly i'm more concerned with what clark brings.  he too was a pretty high pick for what is looking more like a project.

[Jetsfan4life90]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No, there is ZERO argument to that.

Watson is closer to Cousins and Stafford at this point than he is to Mahommes or Rodgers

Put Watson on the Chiefs and Mahomes on the Texans, and we'd be arguing Mahomes is closer to Cousins and Stafford than he is to Watson or Rodgers lol.

Watson is every bit as good as Mahomes except he's on a much worse team. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Fields has everything Watson has and more physically with good knees, is bigger and stronger and has a far better arm and is incredibly accurate.

day 1 no way fields is as good, but day 1 with fields has a lot more around him. Day 1 with Watson the jets are not a serious contender. Best case is it takes a few years to put enough around Watson to be a serious contender. By that time I believe fields will be very bit as good if not better. And will have more around him.

I have no idea how you would know that any of this is true.  You seem to think because Fields can throw a ball and can run that means he’ll be not only as good but better than Watson.  That’s a leap.  A huge leap.  One that I’d bet you’re wrong about.  

[Savage69]

1 hour ago, flgreen said:

There was no free agents in 1968-69.  The draft was really the only way to build a team unless you were going to out bid the NFL, which in a way was FA, but nowhere near the impact of todays FA.  At the time going to the AFL was looked upon as going down to the minors.

 

A lot of Jets players were drafted by the Jets, but a lot of big contributers were drafted by other teams.  The Giants, and Colts were a real help.

Don Maynard-------Giants

Winston Hill---------Colts

Dave Herman--------Giants

Ralph Baker ----------Steelers

Al Atkinson-----------Bills

Larry Grantham-------Colts

Johnny Sample-------Colts

Bake Turner-----------Colts

Jim Turner-------------Redskins

Billy Joe---------------Broncos

Curley Johnson-------Steelers

Bill Mathis-------------9ers

Carl McAdams---------Cards

John Neidert----------Bengals

Babe Parilli------------Packers

 

 

 

They picked up players that were cut in Winston's case and as in some others they went to the team that they chose since they were drafted by both a NFL team and a AFL team. The Cards drafted Namath and the Giants drafted Matt Snell.. In the 50's the Steelers drafted Johnny Unitas in the 8th rd cut him and the Colts picke4d him up..

[Flea Flicking Frank]

16 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I have no idea how you would know that any of this is true.  You seem to think because Fields can throw a ball and can run that means he’ll be not only as good but better than Watson.  That’s a leap.  A huge leap.  One that I’d bet you’re wrong about.  

It’s my opinion, not fact. Nobody knows anything. Watson can come here and blow out a knee and be terrible. None of us are making actual moves here, it’s discussing our opinions 

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, Savage69 said:

I know I'm in the vast minority but there is something satisfying watching your team come together mainly through the draft get better and win the Bowl. The 1968 season and the Jan 12 Bowl win was special. Now everyone wants to buy the best players using cash or draft picks..

Anyone born after the advent of free agency hasn't any idea of this.    I remember Curt Flood.  Ultimately led to UFA in all sports, most notably the NFL, where many positions offer a very short lifespan.

[Beerfish]

27 minutes ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Put Watson on the Chiefs and Mahomes on the Texans, and we'd be arguing Mahomes is closer to Cousins and Stafford than he is to Watson or Rodgers lol.

Watson is every bit as good as Mahomes except he's on a much worse team. 

 

All the more reason that we do not trade for Watson but instead build the team because as you pointed out, great Qb on poor team = 4 wins, great Qb on good team that was mostly built before he arrived he super bowls.

All of the arguments that "Watson is awesome!, Best Qb in the league!" Actually all are also arguments that the jets should not at all go after him because, Mr Awesome just won 4 games this year on a team with more talent than the jets.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

I don’t see the Texans taking Wilson.  Their fan base will not like him.  Fields I can see more on the Texans.  They  run a more college-like offense.  

They're going to take whoever they believe will be the better QB.  Not who the fans will like.

And why exactly won't the Texan fans like Wilson?

[Jet2020]

3 hours ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

Dan Marino was a bum too. Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, now those are QBs

Now remind me again how many NFL MVPs, Pro Bowls and All-Pro seasons they had?

PS: I’m still broke af

[nycdan]

3 hours ago, The Count of Monte Cristo said:

LOL Should I try that one?

I couldn't say.  I was always the first guy

 

[Savage69]

32 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Anyone born after the advent of free agency hasn't any idea of this.    I remember Curt Flood.  Ultimately led to UFA in all sports, most notably the NFL, where many positions offer a very short lifespan.

Yes but when they say the avg is 3 years that's because many players suck in the Pro's and are dumped fast..

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

It’s my opinion, not fact. Nobody knows anything. Watson can come here and blow out a knee and be terrible. None of us are making actual moves here, it’s discussing our opinions 

Injuries have nothing to do with any of this

[Dunnie]

4 hours ago, neckdemon said:

this is the absolute maximum.

#23, #34, next years 1 .. thats the max not this other ludricrous trade.

[Dunnie]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

I don’t see the Texans taking Wilson.  Their fan base will not like him.  Fields I can see more on the Texans.  They  run a more college-like offense.  

Why is that exactly .. wont the fans support the better QB ? Do you forget they had Matt Freaking Schaub for their QB for an eternity ?

[Patriot Killa]

5 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

With all this hype around Zach Wilson being a stud puts Douglas in a real position of power with any negotiating with Houston. Honestly, if Wilson is the real deal he’s being hyped up to be Douglas doesn’t have to offer much more than pick 2 in trade talks. It would put Houston in a tough position cause obviously they want to replace Watson with a viable QB and if all the other guys are question marks Wilson should be their main target. But the talk of giving up 3 or 4 1st round picks is a pipe dream. Douglas could say “here’s pick 2 that’s all you’re getting”. If you don’t want that have fun picking Trey Lance or whoever.

You still would have to pay more than 1 first rounder value wise. If we’re being realistic, the Texans need a better offer than the #2 overall pick. I agree with the thought that we shouldn’t be giving up 4 1st rounders, or even 3 1st rounders & Quinnen. That’s just not a plausible option to me... the outcome can’t be draining ourselves of every & all premium draft picks...but you can still offer a fair “take it or leave it” deal that could realistically get Houston to budge. The notion that Houston is backed into a corner and needing Zach Wilson or Fields as a Watson replacement isn’t something I think we can depend on.
 

What if Houston likes Sam Howell or likes the next draft class enough to stay dead set on playing chicken with Watson next season? doing that would also be using his final year of low cap hit(10 million?) to make logic out of a last desperation attempt to see if he’ll finally kiss & make up with them.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Injuries have nothing to do with any of this

Your being a little dense here man. I stated my opinion nothing more. Nobody knows what will happen. And injuries have plenty to do with Watson given he has two bum knees and his legs are a major part of his game.

[johnnysd]

5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I'll bet anything right now that Fields isnt as good, if not better, than Watson is right now.

 

 

Ill bet $50 to charity of winner's choice that he has the third best or worse performance of the first round QBs.

[Dunnie]

1 hour ago, Jet2020 said:

Now remind me again how many NFL MVPs, Pro Bowls and All-Pro seasons they had?

PS: I’m still broke af

Duper - Clayton ?

[johnnysd]

5 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

You still would have to pay more than 1 first rounder value wise. If we’re being realistic, the Texans need a better offer than the #2 overall pick. I agree with the thought that we shouldn’t be giving up 4 1st rounders, or even 3 1st rounders & Quinnen. That’s just not a plausible option to me... the outcome can’t be draining ourselves of every & all premium draft picks...but you can still offer a fair “take it or leave it” deal that could realistically get Houston to budge. The notion that Houston is backed into a corner and needing Zach Wilson or Fields as a Watson replacement isn’t something I think we can depend on.
 

What if Houston likes Sam Howell or likes the next draft class enough to stay dead set on playing chicken with Watson next season? doing that would also be using his final year of low cap hit(10 million?) to make logic out of a last desperation attempt to see if he’ll finally kiss & make up with them.

The #2 pick is worth 3 midrange first round picks.