How I would negotiate the Watson deal

[genot]

45 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

That must be a really bad period. 

He isn't going to be traded. So either he doesn't play football, or he suits up for the Texans. He certainly isn't playing here this year. .................................................

[Larz]

Houston is going to start at Herschel walker with a fall back of Ricky Williams 

[New York Mick]

31 minutes ago, genot said:

He isn't going to be traded. So either he doesn't play football, or he suits up for the Texans. He certainly isn't playing here this year. .................................................

Way to get the joke 

[genot]

45 minutes ago, Larz said:

Houston is going to start at Herschel walker with a fall back of Ricky Williams 

If it gets then to 0-16. They might. Texans are in worse shape than we are. 

[neckdemon]

4 hours ago, Larz said:

Houston is going to start at Herschel walker with a fall back of Ricky Williams 

This is what those delusional nuts over at the texans forums think they are getting:

 

I believe Miami upped their situation to a win-now mode. With Caserio in the GM seat, the days of dealing with RS or OB are over and so are the lopsided trades. If the Jets even want to be in the ballpark of blocking the Dolphins from obtaining their QB1 "Franchise QB".....Douglas better ready himself from a deep ride.

If the Jets want to be in the game, they better be prepared to cough up their:
2021
RD1-02-002
RD1-23-023
RD3-02-066
Darnold As A Toss-In
2022
RD1
2023
RD1

If the Jets would like to add WR- Cooks as a solid veteran and someone Watson is comfortable with and is probably better than the current receiving group:
2022
RD2

Like I mentioned in another post.....the Dolphins are truly a QB1 away from possibly elevating their team to being the AFC East team to beat, especially if they can add a Cooks to their receiving group. Why would Miami be such dominant players in this potential trade action? They wouldn't be obtaining a game manager like Fitzpatrick or hooking their carriage to an inexperienced horse like Tua, they'd be landing a top shelf "Franchise QB" who's only 25 years old and under contract. That's potentially a 7-10 year answer at QB1. I think the Dolphins can throw down a package of players and picks that could have Caserio succeeding with his first blockbuster deal.

2021
RD1-03-003
RD1-18-018
RD2-03-035
QB- Tua
CB- Howard
2022
RD1
2023
RD1

If Cooks is included in this deal....which the Dolphins could really use.
2022
RD2

[dcJet]

25 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

This is what those delusional nuts over at the texans forums think they are getting:

 

I believe Miami upped their situation to a win-now mode. With Caserio in the GM seat, the days of dealing with RS or OB are over and so are the lopsided trades. If the Jets even want to be in the ballpark of blocking the Dolphins from obtaining their QB1 "Franchise QB".....Douglas better ready himself from a deep ride.

If the Jets want to be in the game, they better be prepared to cough up their:
2021
RD1-02-002
RD1-23-023
RD3-02-066
Darnold As A Toss-In
2022
RD1
2023
RD1

If the Jets would like to add WR- Cooks as a solid veteran and someone Watson is comfortable with and is probably better than the current receiving group:
2022
RD2

Like I mentioned in another post.....the Dolphins are truly a QB1 away from possibly elevating their team to being the AFC East team to beat, especially if they can add a Cooks to their receiving group. Why would Miami be such dominant players in this potential trade action? They wouldn't be obtaining a game manager like Fitzpatrick or hooking their carriage to an inexperienced horse like Tua, they'd be landing a top shelf "Franchise QB" who's only 25 years old and under contract. That's potentially a 7-10 year answer at QB1. I think the Dolphins can throw down a package of players and picks that could have Caserio succeeding with his first blockbuster deal.

2021
RD1-03-003
RD1-18-018
RD2-03-035
QB- Tua
CB- Howard
2022
RD1
2023
RD1

If Cooks is included in this deal....which the Dolphins could really use.
2022
RD2

Holy Crap. 

[dcJet]

I'd start with #2 and #23 and make my way up to add next year's first as a final offer.   

If they don't trade Watson by the draft, find out which QB they like and take him at 2, so we can trade him to them later.

[Be_a_Jet]

Our #2, next years Seattle pick, 2023 1st rounder, and Darnold. That gives them essentially 4 first round picks because the #2 pick is worth two picks. 
 

this allows us to still have a 1st this year and next and keep our 2nd rd pick this year which is essentially a late 1st. 
 

if they don’t want Darnold than I would give them our 2nd this year and trade Darnold to someone else for a late 1st or 2nd rounder. My tipping point is that they can have Darnold or a 2nd rd pick - but not both. 
 

the 3 first rounders Im fine giving up bc we’ll still have one in each of the next two years and as far as 2023 goes - we’ll have plenty of time to try to recoup picks or set ourselves up for success by then. 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, neckdemon said:

This is what those delusional nuts over at the texans forums think they are getting:

 

I believe Miami upped their situation to a win-now mode. With Caserio in the GM seat, the days of dealing with RS or OB are over and so are the lopsided trades. If the Jets even want to be in the ballpark of blocking the Dolphins from obtaining their QB1 "Franchise QB".....Douglas better ready himself from a deep ride.

If the Jets want to be in the game, they better be prepared to cough up their:
2021
RD1-02-002
RD1-23-023
RD3-02-066
Darnold As A Toss-In
2022
RD1
2023
RD1

If the Jets would like to add WR- Cooks as a solid veteran and someone Watson is comfortable with and is probably better than the current receiving group:
2022
RD2

Like I mentioned in another post.....the Dolphins are truly a QB1 away from possibly elevating their team to being the AFC East team to beat, especially if they can add a Cooks to their receiving group. Why would Miami be such dominant players in this potential trade action? They wouldn't be obtaining a game manager like Fitzpatrick or hooking their carriage to an inexperienced horse like Tua, they'd be landing a top shelf "Franchise QB" who's only 25 years old and under contract. That's potentially a 7-10 year answer at QB1. I think the Dolphins can throw down a package of players and picks that could have Caserio succeeding with his first blockbuster deal.

2021
RD1-03-003
RD1-18-018
RD2-03-035
QB- Tua
CB- Howard
2022
RD1
2023
RD1

If Cooks is included in this deal....which the Dolphins could really use.
2022
RD2

funny how the fan bases are so different. there is no mention of the 2OA or 3OA being worth an extra pick. and i doubt Houston will either. whoever insists on that will not get Watson.

i dont know if the OP realized this but hes asking a hell of a lot more from Miami. 

he wants 4 # 1 picks from both

but he wants Sam from us, and Tua from them . ok that even. but Howard?? he lead the league in INTs and Passes Defended. he also lead the league in INTs in 2018. no way do i include him in this deal. and in case your wondering hes much better right now than QW. we should only hope QW is leading the league in sacks and QB hurries in his 5th year. thats the difference in a COULD BE and a ALREADY IS.

funny how he didnt want QW. 

then even the other picks are not fair to Miami. 

hes wants a 3rd rd from us and a 2nd rd from them.

4 #1s is too high. make it 3 and the 2 2nds or 1 2nd rd pick and Darnold and i do it.

no way if im Miami i include Howard in this deal.

[MykePM]

1 hour ago, dcJet said:

If they don't trade Watson by the draft, find out which QB they like and take him at 2, so we can trade him to them later.

I don’t think we should draft the Texans’ QB choice at #2 if it doesn’t match Joe D’s independent plans.  However, there’s a legitimate chance that Zach Wilson is QB2 on the board for both teams, so I think you’re onto something that drafting him may also keep us in the Watson sweepstakes if it extends beyond the draft.

[Dunnie]

10 hours ago, genot said:

If it gets then to 0-16. They might. Texans are in worse shape than we are. 

Actually ... they tell Watson to stfu ... he doesn't play ... they go 0-16 and pray for some college savior to appear.

Or ... he does play and they go on to win the Super Bowl as the Watson pro crew have all but guaranteed, and all is well in the Lonestar state.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Dunnie

[genot]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Actually ... they tell Watson to stfu ... he doesn't play ... they go 0-16 and pray for some college savior to appear.

Or ... he does play and they go on to win the Super Bowl as the Watson pro crew have all but guaranteed, and all is well in the Lonestar state.

It's seems both sides are pretty locked. If one side doesn't change their position soon, it might not be able to be resolved for a long time

[nycdan]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Actually ... they tell Watson to stfu ... he doesn't play ... they go 0-16 and pray for some college savior to appear.

Or ... he does play and they go on to win the Super Bowl as the Watson pro crew have all but guaranteed, and all is well in the Lonestar state.

Most likely outcome if Watson sits is that he sits for 10 games, then reports for the last 6 so he rolls his year of service.  Whether the Texans play him or not is their choice, but if they are 0-10 or 1-9 at that point and they don't, it would be clear-cut tanking that I'd have to believe the NFL would at least have to look into.  

The problem I see is that HOU is such a wild-card.  They don't follow any sense of logic as the rest of the league sees things.  I have to think fan morale there is lower than it's ever been even at our lowest point.  We've had incompetence galore in ownership, FO and coaching.  They have it as well, but far more arrogant to boot.  I thought the Hopkins trade was the lowest that franchise could sink.  It appears I may have been hasty...

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, genot said:

Do you realize what your saying. What you want. the Jet's to do for a QB they draft, is what we should have done when we drafted Darnold. Three years wasted. Through no fault of Darnold's

Agree 100% that the team didn't do what it should have. But "no fault" is a massive, massive stretch.

He doesn't see the field. He's not getting pressured and/or sacked within 2 seconds of every snap, with nobody ever open, all the time. When casual fans can post the all-22 film on a website like this, and see just how frequently he misses the open man (or opts for the lesser option even if it's completed), then that's on him. "No fault" is a stretch.

He has fault -- e.g. there was an 1100-yard WR (1100 yards with a rag-armed Teddy B.) healthy & starting his first 2 seasons, who was made to look like some meh marginal starter (people here often called him a "#3 WR at best") because of Darnold's ineptitude. 

We all wanted him to succeed. I get the desire to believe, the assessment that his situation was a challenge, and I'm sure in a more perfect situation he'd have looked better than he has. But he's being graded on a massive curve to the point people actually believe no one else would or could have done much (or any) better. 

The difference between him & the game's best QBs isn't as simple as "give him teh wepponz and call teh good plays not teh bad onez." 

[genot]

51 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Agree 100% that the team didn't do what it should have. But "no fault" is a massive, massive stretch.

He doesn't see the field. He's not getting pressured and/or sacked within 2 seconds of every snap, with nobody ever open, all the time. When casual fans can post the all-22 film on a website like this, and see just how frequently he misses the open man (or opts for the lesser option even if it's completed), then that's on him. "No fault" is a stretch.

He has fault -- e.g. there was an 1100-yard WR (1100 yards with a rag-armed Teddy B.) healthy & starting his first 2 seasons, who was made to look like some meh marginal starter (people here often called him a "#3 WR at best") because of Darnold's ineptitude. 

We all wanted him to succeed. I get the desire to believe, the assessment that his situation was a challenge, and I'm sure in a more perfect situation he'd have looked better than he has. But he's being graded on a massive curve to the point people actually believe no one else would or could have done much (or any) better. 

The difference between him & the game's best QBs isn't as simple as "give him teh wepponz and call teh good plays not teh bad onez." 

I agree that some of his problems we're within his control. Never have i said otherwise. My point always has been that he wasn't in an environment that allowed him to grow as a QB. They're was very little, if any supportive structure on the sidelines to help him through all the issues surrounding the offense.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, genot said:

I agree that some of his problems we're within his control. Never have i said otherwise. My point always has been that he wasn't in an environment that allowed him to grow as a QB. They're was very little, if any supportive structure on the sidelines to help him through all the issues surrounding the offense.

If felt "no fault" suggested his problems were most definitely not within his control.  

I know the bolded part is a perception some have, because of the lousy results with a highly-touted prospect, but that doesn't therefore make it true. 

Whatever Gase's shortcomings as a HC - and you'll get no argument from me that he's got them - he was an OC and a QBC before that as the justification to get over-promoted to HC in the first place.

Darnold wasn't just all on his own where no one lifted a finger to coach and/or help him out for 3 straight years. That's not reality. 

[genot]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If felt "no fault" suggested his problems were most definitely not within his control.  

I know the bolded part is a perception some have, because of the lousy results with a highly-touted prospect, but that doesn't therefore make it true. 

Whatever Gase's shortcomings as a HC - and you'll get no argument from me that he's got them - he was an OC and a QBC before that as the justification to get over-promoted to HC in the first place.

Darnold wasn't just all on his own where no one lifted a finger to coach and/or help him out for 3 straight years. That's not reality. 

Look at what Saleh has done, with regards to staff. An experienced QB coach. Passing game coordinator, OC. Everything compartmentalized. Something that should have been done when you decided to start a 20 yr old rookie.  I agree, that he has shortcomings. Shortcomings that might not allow his talent to come through. I just have an extremist view on Gase. If you can't communicate. You can't teach. Gase was in a world unto himself. Worst kind of mentor for a young QB, who has issues on the field.

[Biggs]

He's going to Miami or New England.  We're going to build around Darnold because we can't get more than a 4th for him in trade.  Watson is not playing for Houston next year.  They're going to fold.

[flgreen]

I'd offer #2, and Darnold.  That's it utill the Jets are on the board.   At that Point I might throw in #86.  NO MULTIPLE #1'S

In a year that there will be a very highly regarded QB on the board that #2 pick is worth ALOT.  

[rayzor]

23 hours ago, Mike135 said:

If true, I'd 100% build around Sam.

If Sam sucks with a solid team around him, then go after Watson next year again.

Watson with an already established good oline n WR corps would be pretty damn nice.

We would only be able to go after Watson if we get like 2 wins again.  What if we have 3-4 wins and up which is more likely?  Then we lost our chance at Watson.

[Mike135]

11 minutes ago, rayzor said:

We would only be able to go after Watson if we get like 2 wins again.  What if we have 3-4 wins and up which is more likely?  Then we lost our chance at Watson.

Not much you can do about that.  I mean we do have the additional 1st rounder from Seattle to help sweeten the pot next year too.

But if Houston wants to throw away this year, then try to get a top 3 QB next year...  we miss out on the Watson sweepstakes.

Basically, try for Watson now.  If it's not happening, gotta move on.  Way too much speculation on how next year's draft will look and even more speculation about how the fools in Houston will react.

Though, if Houston does let Watson sit...  good chance they're already picking top 3 next season.  So they may be more concerned with quantity of picks in trade value instead of needing that extremely high pick to get a QB.

[rex-n-effect]

The more I think about these Watson deals the less I feel like Houston would be wrong to ask for so much. Obtaining a twenty-five year old known franchise QB is never going to be cheap and such opportunities rarely arise. Throwing out their franchise QB will be a severe setback and the team gaining Watson is getting a huge improvement to their roster. Unless you have total confidence that the #2 pick will yield a comparable player then it has to be seriously considered even at an otherwise ridiculous final offer of four first round picks. 

The biggest impediment here is how to build a team around Watson that will make it worth the trade. Four first round picks would essentially be a QB plus three other first round players so we're really only talking losing three picks--but three first round picks who would all be assumed starters year one or two. There would have to be a plan to make a lot of moves in FA to make up for losing out on three likely long term starters otherwise the only benefit of that deal is Woody gets to sell a lot of QB jerseys for the next several years and the team still stinks. Either way the roster needs a lot of help on offense but if FA doesn't pan out then the team definitely cannot take Watson on any blockbuster trade.

[Sperm Edwards]

54 minutes ago, genot said:

Look at what Saleh has done, with regards to staff. An experienced QB coach. Passing game coordinator, OC. Everything compartmentalized. Something that should have been done when you decided to start a 20 yr old rookie.  I agree, that he has shortcomings. Shortcomings that might not allow his talent to come through. I just have an extremist view on Gase. If you can't communicate. You can't teach. Gase was in a world unto himself. Worst kind of mentor for a young QB, who has issues on the field.

Among those reasons is Saleh isn't a former QBC or OC himself. Not a minor point. 

I'm no fan of Gase's, and wasn't a fan of the hiring from day one, but he and Saleh didn't take the same road to HC promotion.

[genot]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Among those reasons is Saleh isn't a former QBC or OC himself. Not a minor point. 

I'm no fan of Gase's, and wasn't a fan of the hiring from day one, but he and Saleh didn't take the same road to HC promotion.

That's all true. Although not long ago, after his firing there we're a few anonymous quotes about Gase being in way over his head. If you remember that 

[nycdan]

Anyone see this yesterday?

 

[dcJet]

Three firsts is only two players we miss out on.  That doesn't stop us from building the team. 

Plus we we don't ever have to spend another first on a QB, because we solved our biggest problem.

Bengals and Browns and Bills and Chargers are drafting non-QB for the next 15 years.   Sweet.

 

[dcJet]

7 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Anyone see this yesterday?

 

We need Miami to tell everyone they are not interested in Watson.  

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, genot said:

That's all true. Although not long ago, after his firing there we're a few anonymous quotes about Gase being in way over his head. If you remember that 

It's also possible he's in over his head as a HC but not as a QBC. The anonymous quotes were referring to him as a HC.

I'm not in the room with them but I don't get the impression from Darnold - not even an anonymous leak - that he was more or less ignored. 

 

[genot]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's also possible he's in over his head as a HC but not as a QBC. The anonymous quotes were referring to him as a HC.

I'm not in the room with them but I don't get the impression from Darnold - not even an anonymous leak - that he was more or less ignored. 

 

Yes. That's a fair take on thing's. This click bait stuff, every day is wearing me down. Lol. I doubt Darnold can avoid the stories day after day about his future. Wishing for a resolution to all this. ASAP.

[Dunnie]

Anyone see this yesterday?
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[Biggs]

I would draft Zach and when Watson holds out for the first 3 games trade him straight up for Wilson.  

[genot]

24 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I would draft Zach and when Watson holds out for the first 3 games trade him straight up for Wilson.  

You are not serious. Correct

[Biggs]

3 minutes ago, genot said:

You are not serious. Correct

We are not winning a bidding war and Watson isn't going to blink.  I'm dead serious.  If someone wants him for a ridiculous amount they will get him.  If Houston doesn't want to trade him and he holds out they lose all their negotiating power.  It's the only way we get him.  The pressure on Houston to get a young QB goes up when Watson is getting paid by Nike not to play in Houston.  

[genot]

15 minutes ago, Biggs said:

We are not winning a bidding war and Watson isn't going to blink.  I'm dead serious.  If someone wants him for a ridiculous amount they will get him.  If Houston doesn't want to trade him and he holds out they lose all their negotiating power.  It's the only way we get him.  The pressure on Houston to get a young QB goes up when Watson is getting paid by Nike not to play in Houston.  

Trading Watson for a prospect is like walking around in south central la with klan clothes. TL maybe, because he has been hyped up for so long.