wWhy we will take Zack Wilson at #2

[oatmeal]

14 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I respectfully disagree.  There is nothing safe about retaining a bust 3-year veteran QB when sitting at the #2 pick for what be our only time in the next 10-15 years or longer.  #2 picks do not grow on trees.  The last time the Jets picked this high was 1996 (25 years ago).

Standing pat with Darnold and building around him keeps the clock and evluation period on J.D. active.  He gets no more time to "build", he's already in his third season here (and owns a 9-25 record as a General Manager so far, with mostly questionable or unproductive FA signings and draft picks to-date).

No, by drafting a rookie QB, J.D. resets the expectations clock.  He buys himself three more seasons to "build", and a built-in excuse if the drafted QB takes some time to play well.  There is no excuse for him, or Sam, if Sam is retained and doesn't play lights out in 2021.

Dump Darnold for a 2nd, draft Wilson, safest (for the G.M.'s job security) move.

Retaining Darnold, signing big $ FA's, and drafting support for Sam means we should compete in 2021.  No more clock, no more excuses.  

I expect the former, Sam dumped, and (probably) Wilson drafted.  Rinse, repeat.

Yup there’s rope with a rookie (just check the many post clamoring for a year 4 with Darnold) and Sam would have elevate his game to a top 10 QB.

Many are underestimating how talented this QB is in comparison to a expiring, last ranked QB in Darnold. 

[Bruce Harper]

But on the flip side;
D. Watson owns an NFL All-Time #2 QB Rating (only behind Patrick Mahomes) @ the age of only 25. 
4 years of experience. 
3x Pro Bowler. 
Career Completion Percentage of 67.8%.
104 TD passes and only 36 INTs. 
QB Rating of 104.5.
Also a dual threat that'll put up 400-500 rushing yards every season. 
Etc. Etc. 
Chances are Zach Wilson will never become as great as Watson. Because. Not many QBs ever have. 
Fk it. Sell the farm and build around Watson for 10+ years. He's absolute greatness.
If given KC Chiefs type weapons he'd be better than Mahomes. 

How do you build without high draft picks? And don’t forget that, as great as he is, he only won 4 games last year.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Bruce Harper]

I have given up on Darnold being a top level QB.  He just hasn't shown the flashes, particularly recently.  And his stats have just been plain ugly.

And I feel like Wilson (and his rookie contract) are a pretty good risk.  I came around on him after watching not just his highlights but full games or full game highlights from this year.  He is accurate and poised and seems to take over almost every game.  He has good touch.  He has good arm strength.  Perhaps most importantly, he makes good and quick decisions.  Remarkably, I saw somewhere that he did not turn the ball over in the red zone once this year.   I wish he was a bit bigger but overall, I think he is worth taking a chance on and keeping the other picks.

[isired]

Not true: 
tyriek hill - 5th round 165 pick 
Travis Kelce - 3rd round 63rd pick 

Hope is not a strategy.

[oatmeal]

20 minutes ago, isired said:

6 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Not true: 
tyriek hill - 5th round 165 pick 
Travis Kelce - 3rd round 63rd pick 

Hope is not a strategy.

Where did I say i was hoping for anything? He said you can’t get Mahomes type weapons if you trade for Deshaun and I showed how Mahomes  2 top and best weapons  were later round picks.
 

Idk what is so hard to understand here 

[Bowles Movement]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Cant draft Wilson unless Darnold is traded first?  

 

Of course not but why hold onto him and watch his market shrink as other teams find other QB solutions?

The price is always higher when you have frenzied bidding.   

[Bowles Movement]

4 hours ago, long time suffering Jets f said:

Its because no decision has been made yet. they haven’t finished the QB evaluations yet. Once the pro days are done at the end of the month then JD will know who he wants.

Thats what Im thinking.  The only question in my mind is does JD think Houston would want Darnold if they trade Watson?

[isired]

Where did I say i was hoping for anything? He said you can’t get Mahomes type weapons if you trade for Deshaun and I showed how Mahomes  2 top and best weapons  were later round picks.
 
Idk what is so hard to understand here 

Hoping to build by getting the best TE in the game in the 3rd and the most dynamic playmaker in the 5th is not a strategy. I don't know what's so hard to understand there. The likelihood that your pick will have a productive career, let alone be at the top of his trade, decreases significantly from one round to the next. Building with no 1s and minimal 2s is something that would take some real skill and a tremendous amount of luck to overcome. KC did not give up 3 1s+ to get their QB.

[slimjasi]

4 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Not true. SD traded Brees after they drafted Rivers. JD might be planning to play Darnold in hopes he shows improvement and trade him to a QB needy team after the season.  That is a good gamble imo. He will be in a QB friendly O next season. 

But this doesn't work because Sam is entering the 4th year of his rookie deal. 

The Jets aren't picking up the 5th year option and they aren't signing Sam to a long term extension right now, so Sam will be a FA after next season.

The time to trade Sam is between now and the draft. 

[More Cowbell]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

But this doesn't work because Sam is entering the 4th year of his rookie deal. 

The Jets aren't picking up the 5th year option and they aren't signing Sam to a long term extension right now, so Sam will be a FA after next season.

The time to trade Sam is between now and the draft. 

Sam hasn't played up to his option year and a lot of it depends on cap space and performance. Most likely he gets traded before the draft but there is still an option he stays with the team. 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

Sam hasn't played up to his option year and a lot of it depends on cap space and performance. Most likely he gets traded before the draft but there is still an option he stays with the team. 

Of course he could still stay with the team.

But what I'm saying is that nobody is giving the Jets anything worthwhile for him next year because he's a FA at the end of the year. Hence, your comment about hanging onto Sam and hypothetically getting "more" for him after he plays better next year is a pipe dream. 

[Mogglez]

3 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

Yes, you still are able to. Why is it hard to comprehend that we have 80 million in cap space and players will want to play with Watson? We have the money, will have the QB, they will want to come. So we'll have a #1 WR, Mims, Crowder, Herndon and another rookie pick. We have a #2, two 3s and a pick (most likely a second) for Sam. How would Watson, Robinson, Mims and Crowder look on the field together, with a rookie RB (3rd round), Herndon and a solid line with a new guard or center (GB) and a OL in the draft. All is possible even if we send those 1st round picks away. This is why you stockpile picks - for a generational QB.

Yes, because blowing your load on free agency always works out for the team doing it.  Also, it would be extremely uncharacteristic for Douglas to do something like that.  Lastly, Robinson is a horrible fit for the Shanny system, so it doesn’t sound great.

[Mogglez]

7 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Not true: 

tyriek hill - 5th round 165 pick 

Travis Kelce - 3rd round 63rd pick 

I’ll buy into the Jets being able to find a player of their quality in later rounds when they actually give me a reason to.

The chances of getting Hill or Kelce level players is exponentially higher with first round picks.

[JohnnyLV]

13 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Starting to feel that way.  If he lights up his pro day and nails the interview process, it will be hard for us to pass on him.  I legitimately think it’s 50/50 at this point that Sam is back, something I didn’t feel a few months ago.

I think he will completely nail the interview process. He did a weekly game tape analysis show and he was extremely detailed about his reads and the plays and different options. I watched a couple but I am having a difficult time finding them again

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

I have given up on Darnold being a top level QB.  He just hasn't shown the flashes, particularly recently.  And his stats have just been plain ugly.

And I feel like Wilson (and his rookie contract) are a pretty good risk.  I came around on him after watching not just his highlights but full games or full game highlights from this year.  He is accurate and poised and seems to take over almost every game.  He has good touch.  He has good arm strength.  Perhaps most importantly, he makes good and quick decisions.  Remarkably, I saw somewhere that he did not turn the ball over in the red zone once this year.   I wish he was a bit bigger but overall, I think he is worth taking a chance on and keeping the other picks.

This is a great assessment of Zach Wilson.  I was similar to you in that I knew very little about him but I really started to like him once I watched full games.  Put stats aside and just watched his skills on the field.   Highlight reels are stupid because everyone look great.

He's very impressive.  And yes, I wish his frame was a bit thicker for sure and I also wish the majority of the people here that disliked him will go and do what you did and watch his games, they would be hard pressed to find a problem other than he had a lot of time.  

They're all on Youtube, they're all there where you can just see every offensive play, by game (the loss this year too) and it moves quickly through game - yet it allows you to have context of the score, down and distance etc.

There's a reason scouts like him.  

[isired]

I’ll buy into the Jets being able to find a player of their quality in later rounds when they actually give me a reason to.
The chances of getting Hill or Kelce level players is exponentially higher with first round picks.

Yeah, for every Travis Kelce there are a dozen Gavin Escobars.

[Cbucco19]

15 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Starting to feel that way.  If he lights up his pro day and nails the interview process, it will be hard for us to pass on him.  I legitimately think it’s 50/50 at this point that Sam is back, something I didn’t feel a few months ago.

I agree ! It really makes no sense in keeping Sam !  I’m sorry but Douglas will not risk his job on a Qb he didn’t draft !  Makes the most sense going with Wilson at #2

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Of course he could still stay with the team.

But what I'm saying is that nobody is giving the Jets anything worthwhile for him next year because he's a FA at the end of the year. Hence, your comment about hanging onto Sam and hypothetically getting "more" for him after he plays better next year is a pipe dream. 

True, I forgot how expensive the option was. Conversely  he could be traded at the deadline. 

[chirorob]

7 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Not true. SD traded Brees after they drafted Rivers. JD might be planning to play Darnold in hopes he shows improvement and trade him to a QB needy team after the season.  That is a good gamble imo. He will be in a QB friendly O next season. 

SD didn't trade Brees, he left in Free Agency.

They had Brees, drafted Rivers.  Rivers held out, Brees got one more shot, and ran with it.  Then he was franchised once, got hurt in a stupid week 15 or 16 game, and left for N.O.   San Diego got nothing for him.

[More Cowbell]

15 minutes ago, chirorob said:

SD didn't trade Brees, he left in Free Agency.

They had Brees, drafted Rivers.  Rivers held out, Brees got one more shot, and ran with it.  Then he was franchised once, got hurt in a stupid week 15 or 16 game, and left for N.O.   San Diego got nothing for him.

Ok, I stand corrected.  

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, isired said:

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I’ll buy into the Jets being able to find a player of their quality in later rounds when they actually give me a reason to.
The chances of getting Hill or Kelce level players is exponentially higher with first round picks.

Yeah, for every Travis Kelce there are a dozen Gavin Escobars.

This is really quite simple.

All we need to do is find a George Kittle in round 5, a Alvin Kamara in round 3 and  a Tyreek Hill in round 5.

It's not that hard. 

[Greenseed4]

1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

This is really quite simple.

All we need to do is find a George Kittle in round 5, a Alvin Kamara in round 3 and  a Tyreek Hill in round 5.

It's not that hard. 

I mean, we do currently have two 5th round picks. 

[Peace Frog]

6 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

I mean, we do currently have two 5th round picks. 

So just draft a Hill and a Kittle.

Problems solved. 

[Sherman Plunkett]

Let's think this through.

 

 

Simply put, the Jets are not a QB away from contention. They came thisclose to going 0-16. If we want the Jets to rebuild they simply cannot miss on the #2 pick.

The NFL's record when picking QB's at the top of the draft is very hit-or-miss as we could see from RGIII, Winston, Rosen, Goff, Wentz and many others. And this happened when teams could see the prospective draftees for a full season against the top competition.

Now Zach Wilson...word is he is much smaller than his stated measurements, a little over 6 feet, not 6'2". He is also a bit lightweight. In this Covid year on BYU's schedule were not the usual Utah, Arizona, Arizona State but Troy, Western Kentucky and North Alabama. BYU blew them all out, always dominant (except the loss to the "powerhouse", Coastal Carolina).

Wilson had the least number of QB hurries in the nation with a clean pocket 80% of the time. His defense was dominant. Contrast that with the situation that he would find with the Jets. The complete opposite.

Will Wilson prove to be a "francise QB"? I have no idea and that is a big problem. Consider non-QB picks like Sewell. It is hard to imagine him not being less than a 10 year starter. Taking a punt on Wilson is an unacceptable risk in my opinion. It is not an exageration to say that the near future of the team depends on hitting on the #2 pick.

My preference is to trade down for several picks, spreading the risk and greatly increasing my chances of having a good draft. Build gradually with the priority being the offensive and defensive lines. Don't swing for the fences, these are the Jets - how often does that work out?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnnyLV]

13 minutes ago, Sherman Plunkett said:

Let's think this through.

 

 

Simply put, the Jets are not a QB away from contention. They came thisclose to going 0-16. If we want the Jets to rebuild they simply cannot miss on the #2 pick.

The NFL's record when picking QB's at the top of the draft is very hit-or-miss as we could see from RGIII, Winston, Rosen, Goff, Wentz and many others. And this happened when teams could see the prospective draftees for a full season against the top competition.

Now Zach Wilson...word is he is much smaller than his stated measurements, a little over 6 feet, not 6'2". He is also a bit lightweight. In this Covid year on BYU's schedule were not the usual Utah, Arizona, Arizona State but Troy, Western Kentucky and North Alabama. BYU blew them all out, always dominant (except the loss to the "powerhouse", Coastal Carolina).

Wilson had the least number of QB hurries in the nation with a clean pocket 80% of the time. His defense was dominant. Contrast that with the situation that he would find with the Jets. The complete opposite.

Will Wilson prove to be a "francise QB"? I have no idea and that is a big problem. Consider non-QB picks like Sewell. It is hard to imagine him not being less than a 10 year starter. Taking a punt on Wilson is an unacceptable risk in my opinion. It is not an exageration to say that the near future of the team depends on hitting on the #2 pick.

My preference is to trade down for several picks, spreading the risk and greatly increasing my chances of having a good draft. Build gradually with the priority being the offensive and defensive lines. Don't swing for the fences, these are the Jets - how often does that work out?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really want to counter this post, but you have too good of a last name

[isired]

This is really quite simple.
All we need to do is find a George Kittle in round 5, a Alvin Kamara in round 3 and  a Tyreek Hill in round 5.
It's not that hard. 

I mean, if we're going that route let's just find a Brady at the end of the 6th round.

We can sell any remaining picks in the top 4 rounds for cash.

[Peace Frog]

8 minutes ago, isired said:

I mean, if we're going that route let's just find a Brady at the end of the 6th round.

We can sell any remaining picks in the top 4 rounds for cash.

Exactly.  

[flgreen]

6 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I think he will completely nail the interview process. He did a weekly game tape analysis show and he was extremely detailed about his reads and the plays and different options. I watched a couple but I am having a difficult time finding them again

 

[neckdemon]

13 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Many on here like myself seen the writing on the wall after JD’s first press conference and no commitment to Sam. We were told here though that we didn’t know what we where talking about and the organization was “high on Sam” and are going to keep Sam. They told us we were angry because “we were being told things we didn’t want to hear”

No “sources” just simple logic was used and we were destroyed for it. 50/50 is saving face when it’s more like 20/80, 10/90 that Darnold is back at this point. The Jets have pushed Darnold to close to the door to not kick him out the house at this point.

When would you like us to have the parade 

[JohnnyLV]

39 minutes ago, flgreen said:

 

Yes that is one of them. I think it is very impressive. He even mentions he went off script on the run in the face of the blitz because he saw the opening that shouldnt be there. One of the criticisms has been underthrown balls yet he explains why he did that twice in this game.

[Bruce Harper]

2 hours ago, Sherman Plunkett said:

Let's think this through.

 

 

Simply put, the Jets are not a QB away from contention. They came thisclose to going 0-16. If we want the Jets to rebuild they simply cannot miss on the #2 pick.

The NFL's record when picking QB's at the top of the draft is very hit-or-miss as we could see from RGIII, Winston, Rosen, Goff, Wentz and many others. And this happened when teams could see the prospective draftees for a full season against the top competition.

Now Zach Wilson...word is he is much smaller than his stated measurements, a little over 6 feet, not 6'2". He is also a bit lightweight. In this Covid year on BYU's schedule were not the usual Utah, Arizona, Arizona State but Troy, Western Kentucky and North Alabama. BYU blew them all out, always dominant (except the loss to the "powerhouse", Coastal Carolina).

Wilson had the least number of QB hurries in the nation with a clean pocket 80% of the time. His defense was dominant. Contrast that with the situation that he would find with the Jets. The complete opposite.

Will Wilson prove to be a "francise QB"? I have no idea and that is a big problem. Consider non-QB picks like Sewell. It is hard to imagine him not being less than a 10 year starter. Taking a punt on Wilson is an unacceptable risk in my opinion. It is not an exageration to say that the near future of the team depends on hitting on the #2 pick.

My preference is to trade down for several picks, spreading the risk and greatly increasing my chances of having a good draft. Build gradually with the priority being the offensive and defensive lines. Don't swing for the fences, these are the Jets - how often does that work out?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"word is"?  Even though he looks three inches taller than Drew Brees in that picture that has been everywhere?  Yes, he might be 6'2".  That doesn't worry me that much. 

Every QB is a risk in the first round.  This guy looks pretty damn good, though.  One of the best years by a college QB ever, in any era.  When do you think we will be picking at two again?  This guy looks like a pretty good risk.  I would take him.

[Integrity28]

I just want to make it clear, my head is not spinning. Okay. Carry on. Thanks.

[Philc1]

Because it would be so Jetsy to take an injury prone qb who sucked facing the only semi legit defense he faced in his only good season in college