Darnold in Limbo?

[Morrissey]

20 hours ago, T0mShane said:

And none of them has watched him as much as we have. They are relying on group think positive media coverage Sam gets. 

[Adobolo]

6 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

And none of them has watched him as much as we have. They are relying on group think positive media coverage Sam gets. 

Yea I'm sure NFL head coaches never watch the jets or do scouting on them because the jets have Sam Darnold and sure he's useless and if the opposition just turn up they will beat the Jets.

Sar

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I agree with much of your logic here, but I don't think going with Sam one more year carries more risk, nor do I think it creates a smaller window to win. All it does is punt the QB decision for another year while putting the bulk of their assets (particularly the proceeds from that #2 pick) into building the rest of the team. 

Now again, this is only if they don't love Wilson or one of the other QBs. Because I think if that's the case, taking one anyway is the biggest risk. Yes, it resets the clock, as you say, but if it's just another Sanchez/Geno/Darnold clock, when does it run out? 

If Darnold plays well enough for the team to want to franchise him, that's a pretty good problem to have. If he doesn't, hopefully you've improved the rest of the team and the coaching to the point where you can pinpoint the QB as the problem then and move on. Trading out of the #2 this year and adding another #1 in 2022 puts them in very good position for adding a new QB next year (adding a year to that reset clock). If Darnold goes nowhere, the Jets pick will probably be top ten again and they'll have two first rounders on top of that. 

As I've been saying all along, it comes down to their evaluations of the QBs in the draft vs. Darnold, and I believe the reports that there are a lot of league executives that believe Darnold can still be good. I get that this is probably the last year that he has any trade value, so that will be a factor, too. I just don't think it's nearly as cut and dried as you do, especially when your target is a small school junior QB who's had just one big year against pretty questionable competition. 

 

While I agree they had to have like one of these QB's or another QB - I still think they would be very hard pressed to bring Sam back.

I just keep picturing Sam coming back and starting 0-2 - and I think about how ugly it will get for him and JD.  Fans booing every series, calling into sports radio calling for JD's head. etc.

The truth is that stuff matters.  With Darnold there's simply going to be very little patience.  And that talent on the team, IMO, still isn't going to be good enough to expect Sam to win big.

I have to believe both JD and ownership understand that.

Of course, the other side is Sam is lighting it up somewhere else while Wilson (or whoever) is terrible - but I still think that's, by far, the lesser risk.

With all of that said,. I couldn't agree more - that they needed to replace him with something substantive.  If not a draft pick then maybe they were involved in the Stafford/Goff trades, or more aggressive with Watson.  If all the quality options fell through, then yes - they would bring Sam back.

[slats]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

While I agree they had to have like one of these QB's or another QB - I still think they would be very hard pressed to bring Sam back.

I just keep picturing Sam coming back and starting 0-2 - and I think about how ugly it will get for him and JD.  Fans booing every series, calling into sports radio calling for JD's head. etc.

The truth is that stuff matters.  With Darnold there's simply going to be very little patience.  And that talent on the team, IMO, still isn't going to be good enough to expect Sam to win big.

I have to believe both JD and ownership understand that.

Of course, the other side is Sam is lighting it up somewhere else while Wilson (or whoever) is terrible - but I still think that's, by far, the lesser risk.

With all of that said,. I couldn't agree more - that they needed to replace him with something substantive.  If not a draft pick then maybe they were involved in the Stafford/Goff trades, or more aggressive with Watson.  If all the quality options fell through, then yes - they would bring Sam back.

If Darnold is on the roster and penciled in to start, there will have to be a veteran QB on the roster capable of taking over if Sam simply isn't improving. A guy like Winston or Dalton. 

I'm just saying I think everything is still on the table, with Watson's availability and what the Jets decide to do at the position currently grinding the QB gears to a halt. For people who want Watson, the Jets and Texans continuing to drag their feet is a best case scenario - other teams will find other ways to fill their QB needs leaving the Texans and Jets to deal with each other. If, as you believe, the Jets will target a QB at #2, the Jets won't be able to drag their feet quite as much because Darnold's trade value could plummet for the same reasons in another three weeks. 

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

If Darnold is on the roster and penciled in to start, there will have to be a veteran QB on the roster capable of taking over if Sam simply isn't improving. A guy like Winston or Dalton. 

I'm just saying I think everything is still on the table, with Watson's availability and what the Jets decide to do at the position currently grinding the QB gears to a halt. For people who want Watson, the Jets and Texans continuing to drag their feet is a best case scenario - other teams will find other ways to fill their QB needs leaving the Texans and Jets to deal with each other. If, as you believe, the Jets will target a QB at #2, the Jets won't be able to drag their feet quite as much because Darnold's trade value could plummet for the same reasons in another three weeks. 

I agree, bringing in a vet behind Sam would make the keeping Sam reasonable, but that'll be expensive (a legit Vet like Dalton or Winston would make sense) 

I think the Jets are simply waiting for the pro days to move Sam.  JD is being exceptionally thorough right now.  If I had to guess, Sam gets traded the fist week in April.

[slats]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree, bringing in a vet behind Sam would make the keeping Sam reasonable, but that'll be expensive (a legit Vet like Dalton or Winston would make sense) 

I think the Jets are simply waiting for the pro days to move Sam.  JD is being exceptionally thorough right now.  If I had to guess, Sam gets traded the fist week in April.

The problem with waiting that long is that the market for him could dry up in that time. He'll really need to keep teams interested while he goes thru the entire pro day process, and other teams may not feel like waiting around. 

[FidelioJet]

12 minutes ago, slats said:

The problem with waiting that long is that the market for him could dry up in that time. He'll really need to keep teams interested while he goes thru the entire pro day process, and other teams may not feel like waiting around. 

I have to believe there's already a deal on the table.  Or he's simply playing hardball and waiting on a better pick.  

I suspect he's holding out for a 1...

But you're right, he's running the risk of teams moving on.  We'll see, it'll all play in the coming weeks, should be an exciting month.

[playtowinthegame]

I'll think Jimmy Garoppolo should also be considered as the veteran option. 

[slats]

33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I have to believe there's already a deal on the table.  Or he's simply playing hardball and waiting on a better pick.  

I suspect he's holding out for a 1...

But you're right, he's running the risk of teams moving on.  We'll see, it'll all play in the coming weeks, should be an exciting month.

Lol, yeah, much more exciting than if they just got the #1 pick. 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 3/8/2021 at 10:42 AM, Warfish said:

Great post Spermy.

I think some of us (like me) will have to come to terms with the fact that the Jets are almost assuredly going to draft Wilson.

I think he's going to fail.

But I guess I have to start hoping I am wrong (yet again).

 

20 hours ago, MaxAF said:

Great post Sperm. 
I’m not sure what direction the Jets are going in. They may not even know yet. However the options are not all blue skies. 
I don’t think JD will dump a bunch of top DPs for Watson. Just goes against his philosophy of building through the draft.

Dak is out. He wants too much money and if JJ won’t pay him why would the Jets. 
Getting a QB through the draft is a crap shoot. I was never a Suk for Sam guy. I actually liked Josh Allen for his raw talent and cannon arm but that’s yesterday’s mail. Not sure if any of the QBs in that draft would have excelled to greatness considering the coaching and personnel.
I know Sam has not made the moves we all wanted him to make in year 3 but man that whole team and coaching was so disfunctional. Would another QB rise above the Gase offensive scheme and our OL issues? Unknown. One thing is for sure. Gase didn’t help Sam one bit in making him better. He looked lost and played crappy in Gases offense. He’s regressed no doubt. The question is can he be resurrected. And does the new regime think they can remake him. 
I think Salah and Lafleur will hold a lot of weight in the keep or dump Sam conversation. 
 

I have no idea what direction they're going in with regards to the position. I was only laying out there are many reasons why it should surprise no one that they're listening to offers.

And it's not "Oh I'll listen to calls for anyone," because once you have a guy you know (or think you know) has it, you're not even listening. A handful are in the "there is no offer we'd accept" group, and Darnold's not a member. If he is in their plans, then Douglas will exercise his 5th year option on the first day even though they have until early May. 

They may stick with him and they may trade him. They may look into a Watson trade or they may not. They may draft a QB at #2 or still allegedly prefer to trade down. Point is, I have no idea which way their leaning on any of these, other than my guess is if the offer is good enough then Douglas would pounce on trading Darnold and/or trading for Watson. I suppose the same for trading down from #2 as well; he'd have to be smitten beyond words to stay at #2 no matter what offer came in. 

I sense they're playing up the "we're happy with Darnold and are therefore looking to trade down from #2" line because teams will be less likely to think we're obviously trading Darnold for the top price no matter how low that price is within the first 2 days of the draft. But that's a feeling I have more than anything, because it seems like that would fit how things have unfolded & leaked so far. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Great post Spermy.

I think some of us (like me) will have to come to terms with the fact that the Jets are almost assuredly going to draft Wilson.

I think he's going to fail.

But I guess I have to start hoping I am wrong (yet again).

I don't know if they are or aren't. 

Agree I like to see more accomplishments than a year against 90% joke competition. Much more. That doesn't mean he'd have failed in other situations, so much as it doesn't mean he would have succeeded. There are Super Bowl champ QBs who come from lesser (and lesser-challenged) programs (Div I-AA, etc.); probowl & first team AP players who went to BYU (recent, not ancient history); but all other thing being equal no doubt it's easier to put up numbers against lesser competition so it's still a big unknown what he'd do when challenged weekly.

Whatever they do I just don't want them to punt the decision to another season. i.e. more or less semi-tank yet another season in the form of building up the peri-QB areas with the hopes of just the right QB becoming available on demand next year, wherever the Jets pick. Then similar to this year, if there are more than one to choose from, still identifying that QB, and subsequently succeeding like the draft is some plug & play exact science. If it was that easy there wouldn't be any busts. 

[playtowinthegame]

On 3/8/2021 at 10:03 AM, playtowinthegame said:

I can't see the Jets holding onto Darnold until April 5th if they are truly going in another direction at quarterback. With that said, if Sam Darnold is still on the Jets come April 5th I'm leaning towards the Jets keeping Darnold to compete for the starting job in 2021, which could mean Joe Douglas doesn't believe and/or nobody in his scouting department could convince him enough to use the 2nd overall pick on a quarterback in this draft that isn't named Trevor Lawrence. A trade down seems likely if the opportunity presents itself for a chance to stockpile more draft capital now and in the coming drafts, which gives Joe Douglas more bricks to build this Jets team into his vision of a great team that is a consistent winner.

Joe traded him right on April 5th.