Jump to content

Darius Butler breaks down some Sam Darnold tape


Recommended Posts

56 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

guy clearly knows what he is talking about...

This is why I believe there is an elite quarterback that is hiding somewhere within Darnold. With a guy like Josh Rosen, the elite quarterback is already in full blossom and it's why in my opinion he's probably the best available quarterback. Darnold will need more work, but he can be absolutely special.

since we are talking about the chicken wing king, why would SF want to trade a 2nd rd pick for Darnold when they already have that rebuild project with Rosen himself?

i believe that at one point 8 teams called about Darnold but as time goes on there's not as many teams that will need him and JD will be stuck in the musical chair because they don't make quick decisions in Florham Park 

 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 94
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Bad footwork in the pocket and bad decision making.   How will a system change his poor footwork in the pocket?  If were depending on a system that needs everything to break down for Sam to be at his

"Can't put this on the play call.  Can't put this on the personnel" These videos are an absolute homicide - both to Darnold and to the narrative that it's the "weaponzzz, the line, or the playcal

Josh Allen had less decisions to make this season. That’s why Diggs had the most targets in the league. Guy is always open. Less mistakes to possibly make

When we drafted him this was a big concern.

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/76094/what-sam-darnold-must-fix-to-become-the-jets-qb-savior

Too many interceptions. He threw 21 interceptions in 24 career starts, a rate of one every 38.5 attempts. The good news is many of the league's top quarterbacks posted similar rates in college, including Tom Brady (37.5), Ben Roethlisberger (38.4), Eli Manning (38.9) and Kirk Cousins (37.6). So, yes, interception-prone college passers can grow out of it.

A film review of Darnold's interceptions last season reveals a few common themes: On many of the 13 picks, he stared down his receiver instead of reading the entire field. That resulted in forced throws into double- and triple-coverage. It was glaring against Stanford, Oregon State and Notre Dame.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I'm not finished watching all of it yet, and Darius Butler is way smarter than me, but his first example he does(Colts pick 6) he says every QB knows that the coverage the Colts were in dictates 1 on 1 coverage to the back side and that's the read.  But then he criticizes him for throwing to that read because of a Lawrence Cager/Xavier Rhodes matchup.   He even calls it a terrible route by Cager.  

I know it's a cliche to talk about weapons yada yada, but this is a prime example of why it does matter.  Darnold makes the correct read based on schematics.  However, he trusts(likely more than he should) that Cager can at least produce a semi productive route, which he can't.  

Schematically correct, but does it not seem clear that Darnold is going there no matter what?  There was absolutely no play to be made, and he just went for it.  He does that a lot.  Being a QB is hard.  You have to know what the right thing to do with the ball is before it's snapped, but then you need to diagnose if it remains the right thing to do once the ball is snapped.  In this case, it obviously was not, post snap.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Biggs said:

His confidence is shot because he no longer is so physically ahead of everyone else.  It's the NFL not the pack 12 or High school.  It's the old story.  Guy gets to the big leagues on talent and stays because he's smart and sound fundamentally.  

And he doesn't have Ronald Jones in the backfield while throwing to JuJu Smith Schuster and Michael Pitts playing behind a dominant (college) O line. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

on that team with those teammates Sam Darnold would be 1.5x the player that Goff is/was. You are just too blind to see it.

I love Sam.  I view him of a victim of the Browns being stupid enough to take Mayfield ahead of him.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I'm not finished watching all of it yet, and Darius Butler is way smarter than me, but his first example he does(Colts pick 6) he says every QB knows that the coverage the Colts were in dictates 1 on 1 coverage to the back side and that's the read.  But then he criticizes him for throwing to that read because of a Lawrence Cager/Xavier Rhodes matchup.   He even calls it a terrible route by Cager.  

I know it's a cliche to talk about weapons yada yada, but this is a prime example of why it does matter.  Darnold makes the correct read based on schematics.  However, he trusts(likely more than he should) that Cager can at least produce a semi productive route, which he can't.  

Yup, I thought this tape showed a little of everything that is working against Sam. Some of it on him, some of it on the circumstances around him. For every play where a receiver let him down, he missed a wide open one. It's really not an either/or situation. The talent was lacking and Darnold was bad. As far as I can tell, these were both true, at least in this game.

 

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would also assume a lot of it has to do with injuries and having a rotation of practice squad players every week. Sure Darnold could make better decisions but if you're unfamiliar with your targets and their tendencies how are you going to any consistency week after week? At some point you're probably going to take some stupid risks to make something happen.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

The breakdown literally shows these no-name WRs open and Darnold missing them, on more than one key play.

Would it be great to have an elite WR?  Of course.  But, even against a top defense, our bad WRs were open and had opportunities to make big plays.  The play calling was fine, the WRs did their jobs, the QB failed.

Every qb leaves open wide receivers on the field, it's just we don't do deep dives into them or the qb is successful so no one cares.

I was watching a Zack wilson play today and it was identical to a play from sam in the colts game where he threw deep into double coverage, the jets receiver dropped it and the BYU receiver cought it. Both plays were bad choices as there was an open check down but no one cares with regards Zack because it looked a great play while sam looked a fool doing it.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Adobolo said:

Every qb leaves open wide receivers on the field, it's just we don't do deep dives into them or the qb is successful so no one cares.

Rght, but not every QB is ranked 33rd in the league. 

If Sam had a decent year last year, nobody would be posting videos of him missing open WRs. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Rght, but not every QB is ranked 33rd in the league. 

If Sam had a decent year last year, nobody would be posting videos of him missing open WRs. 

the thing about darnold is that he was missing robbie and other wrs enough his rookie year too, before gase.  this is who darnold is.  some flash, some inaccuracy, some turnovers but overall, not enough production.  they have to trade him, he's just not going to be the qb everyone thought he'd be.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

Yeah, except the video shows the exact opposite - Darnold frequently making throws he should not make.  That's either overconfidence, or stupidity.

He does both... if you play too fast you don't read the field you pre determine where you are going, because you lack confidence. Its like a putter that has no confidence in themselves, they just hit the ball and pray it goes in. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Rght, but not every QB is ranked 33rd in the league. 

If Sam had a decent year last year, nobody would be posting videos of him missing open WRs. 

Yea exactly what I said

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, QB1 said:

He does both... if you play too fast you don't read the field you pre determine where you are going, because you lack confidence. Its like a putter that has no confidence in themselves, they just hit the ball and pray it goes in. 

Maybe he just sucks?

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to his next two games he's going to review on Darnold. Too many times Darnold doesn't understand which match-ups he can exploit. He locks in on a choice and misses out on some better decisions...like that play he scrambled for a first down, but could hit his receiver for an easy touchdown once he broke the pocket. 

To me, that’s mostly game plan - and a signature of Gase.

Not defending Sam, just saying there’s things we can put on him - and things we shouldn’t.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

Josh Allen had less decisions to make this season. That’s why Diggs had the most targets in the league. Guy is always open. Less mistakes to possibly make

Didn't Allen throw touchdowns to the most different receivers in the league? Like tied the NFL record I believe. And COle Beasely was also like top 20 in receptions. They also had zero rushing offense. They had a game where they didn't have a rush attempt until the 4th quarter. 

I don't think you can simply sum it up as Darnold had too many decisions to make compared to Allen. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

When a QB makes a good play, it takes a lot of people to do their job well to allow for that play. 
 

when a QB makes a bad play, usually many things went wrong including but not limited to the qb himself. 
 

it’s easy to cherry pick bad plays for any QB, or wide open missed receivers, or missed throws for any QB even the best ones. 
 

I think Sam could have been a really good QB but he was put in a textbook situation for how not to develop a QB. Oh well, he made a lot of money and will probably get another chance.

I think it’s in best interest for the jets and Sam to move on. Sam needs a fresh start, and we are too far into his rookie deal to still be developing him regardless of fault.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

Didn't Allen throw touchdowns to the most different receivers in the league? Like tied the NFL record I believe. And COle Beasely was also like top 20 in receptions. They also had zero rushing offense. They had a game where they didn't have a rush attempt until the 4th quarter. 

I don't think you can simply sum it up as Darnold had too many decisions to make compared to Allen. 

I can sum it up to Diggs had the most targets, by far.  Before Diggs, Allen had never thrown for 300 yds, ever.  Tds are nice, but that’s not even 10% of his throws. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

I can sum it up to Diggs had the most targets, by far.  Before Diggs, Allen had never thrown for 300 yds, ever.  Tds are nice, but that’s not even 10% of his throws. 

He had 6 more targets than the next closest receiver. Over a 3rd of the league had a WR within 20% of his targets. I think Diggs is one of the best in the league, but you need to deal with that fact that sam sucks and having a WR, even on the level of Diggs doesn't change that. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

He had 6 more targets than the next closest receiver. Over a 3rd of the league had a WR within 20% of his targets. I think Diggs is one of the best in the league, but you need to deal with that fact that sam sucks and having a WR, even on the level of Diggs doesn't change that. 

How would you know that?  It changed it dramatically for Allen.   He went one way with the ball last year. Worked out pretty well.  We should  give him Permian on the outside and see how that works out 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

How would you know that?  It changed it dramatically for Allen.   He went one way with the ball last year. Worked out pretty well.  We should  give him Permian on the outside and see how that works out 

Like if the Jets handed Darnold John Brown and Cole Beasley, and still expected 20 TDs and under 10 picks. I'd think we'd still be hearing about the lack of wepponz as the true cause.

  • The two prior years Brown caught about 40% of his targets. First year with a still-raw Allen and he's up over 60%, even with his handful of drops.
  • And this other "weapon" in Beasley, first arriving on the Bills in his 30s? Hey, it only took the likes of 2 starting/star WRs and a TE to take enough heat off him to catch 4 passes a game from 6 yards out in his years in Dallas. Beasley dropped a half dozen of his own.
  • Who else was there? A 3rd round rookie TE who dropped 10 of his 50 targets? Please.

Diggs's results with Allen are a combination of two things. First, give credit to Allen for his continued improvement. But second, it's what happens when a legit talent is put on a team with a QB who still largely succeeded with less instead of crapping his pants all the time and letting everyone come to his rescue with excuses about his subpar starter wepponz.

You'd think the reality is that Allen is a lousy QB who happens to have Diggs on his roster now. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

How would you know that?  It changed it dramatically for Allen.   He went one way with the ball last year. Worked out pretty well.  We should  give him Permian on the outside and see how that works out 

except he had two receivers in the top 20 of receptions so I'm not sure that's "one way". Allen also got better each year. Last season, without Diggs he was like 2nd in intermediate range passes (10-20 yards). 

 I get you want to believe in Sam, but putting blinders on isn't going to make it true..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sam Darnold is a point guard that had limited success and in fact decreasing returns on transferring his parquet game to the NFL. Should have stuck with b-ball.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Yeah, except the video shows the exact opposite - Darnold frequently making throws he should not make.  That's either overconfidence, or stupidity.

It’s stupidity. His issue is his ability to scan the field — vision — and make proper reads. He can not make the proper read. He does not recognize coverages, matchups and assess risk in his delivery. His arm can not compensate for these flaws in decision making say like Favre could. He’s not Brett Favre. But he thinks he is. He’s actually a poor man’s Steve Young without the accuracy and vision. 

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

To the original poster.. thanks for sharing that.  Lot of things in that video were not on the coach/play call... like he said it was all Sam for the most part and it wasn't played well.  Even though that was just one game and I remember the run support was really poor.. Sam did not play well. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, rldev said:

Go watch some Sabo breakdown videos from the end of the first season. Sam was doing many things well. He went tit for tat in shootouts with Arron Rodgers and Deshaun Watson.  He was a different player back then, It all went downhill after that. Losing Bates turned out to be a disaster. Who knew?

You mean who knew that abandoning a modern nfl offense for Gase was a bad idea that would doom the team? Everyone... every one knew. Especially Miami.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, dcJet said:

Sam is a turnover machine.  Only way to fix that is to conservatize the offense.  There was a reason for Gore up the middle.

 

There was a reason Gase was an ass who didn't know how to run an offense

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

except he had two receivers in the top 20 of receptions so I'm not sure that's "one way". Allen also got better each year. Last season, without Diggs he was like 2nd in intermediate range passes (10-20 yards). 

 I get you want to believe in Sam, but putting blinders on isn't going to make it true..

You’re the king of obscure stats, that’s what we’ve learned 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, kdels62 said:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2018/futures-sam-darnold
 

Maybe except here’s some breakdown where he’s doing all the same things in college. Idk why the author makes a point to point out everything wrong with Darnold just to say he should be a high first rounder. 

You've been pretty consistently right on Darnold for years now. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

What kind of lazy analysis is this at 3.30 in the second video??

"Maybe there's some space you can fit that ball, I don't know."

"Maybe if you got something down here I'm not sure."

The throw he makes is awful, even I can see that, the question is what he should have done. Or if it for once was a bad play call, doesn't seem to be many of those in the mix.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Vader said:

It’s stupidity. His issue is his ability to scan the field — vision — and make proper reads. He can not make the proper read. He does not recognize coverages, matchups and assess risk in his delivery. His arm can not compensate for these flaws in decision making say like Favre could. He’s not Brett Favre. But he thinks he is. He’s actually a poor man’s Steve Young without the accuracy and vision. 

I've said it many times... Brett Favre without Brett Favre's arm delivers for Amazon.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, maury77 said:

You've been pretty consistently right on Darnold for years now. 

It is my one big draft victory (and Polite sucking). After we drafted him I hoped he’d be good and cheered for him as a Jets fan, and if he’s the QB for another year then I will find the hope somewhere and continue to cheer for his success. However, if he continues to fail it will say more about Joe Douglas than Darnold at that point.

If I can see that Darnold isn’t the guy then the GM should also see it.  A GM shouldn’t be counting on hope and homerism to make a decision.

  • Upvote 2
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

You’re the king of obscure stats, that’s what we’ve learned 

Yes.. receptions is an obscure stat.. not like that one you used... what was it again? Oh, yea.. receptions. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...