Beer; Justin Fields over analysis reminds me of J Herbert.

[RichardTodd27]

3 hours ago, adb280z said:

Mariotta?

I'll accept that. But quite a while ago (4 years).

Also, Mariotta's undoing had more to do with injuries.

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, RichardTodd27 said:

I'll accept that. But quite a while ago (4 years).

Also, Mariotta's undoing had more to do with injuries.

Injuries? No he just sucks 

[Philc1]

18 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

Zach Wilson's size shouldn't be an issue. Kyler Murray is 5'7 190, and he's doing well.

Murray is a phenomenal athlete.  He also didn’t have torn labrums in both shoulders by age 21

[Philc1]

14 hours ago, RichardTodd27 said:

Can you tell me the last mobile (and athletic) QB taken in the 1st round that was a bust? 

 

Sure, Dwayne Haskins, Vince Young, Paxton Lynch, RG3, Marcus Mariota

 

And I hated all of them pre-draft

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Sure, Dwayne Haskins, Vince Young, Paxton Lynch, RG3, Marcus Mariota

 

And I hated all of them pre-draft

Lol Dwayne Haskins has never been mobile.

[RichardTodd27]

8 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Sure, Dwayne Haskins, Vince Young, Paxton Lynch, RG3, Marcus Mariota

 

And I hated all of them pre-draft

None of the QB's you named was within the last 4 years (Haskins aint athletic).

Times have changed. The new breed of athletic QB's are pretty close to sure things.

#JustDraftJustin is going viral.

[slimjasi]

14 minutes ago, RichardTodd27 said:

None of the QB's you named was within the last 4 years (Haskins aint athletic).

Times have changed. The new breed of athletic QB's are pretty close to a sure things.

#JustDraftJustin is going viral.

Also, RG3 was the offensive rookie of the year (and I believe was named to the Pro Bowl) before blowing out his knee. 

 

[Bugg]

On 3/10/2021 at 4:59 PM, King P said:

The overanalysis of Fields has reached Deshaun Watson levels of overthinking

But the Northwestern-type game Watson had was....? 

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, RichardTodd27 said:

None of the QB's you named was within the last 4 years (Haskins aint athletic).

Times have changed. The new breed of athletic QB's are pretty close to sure things.

#JustDraftJustin is going viral.

This nonsense again.  Somehow the game of football changed within a 3 year timespan I guess

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Also, RG3 was the offensive rookie of the year (and I believe was named to the Pro Bowl) before blowing out his knee. 

 

RG3 got exposed.  

[adb280z]

On 3/12/2021 at 4:25 PM, Philc1 said:

RG3 got exposed.  

Or after his knee was shredded he couldn't move the same way and wasn't as dangerous.

[Philc1]

On 3/14/2021 at 6:35 AM, adb280z said:

Or after his knee was shredded he couldn't move the same way and wasn't as dangerous.

It wasn’t just the injury with RG3.  That’s the thing about one read guys once their rookie season is over 31 defensive coordinators get that tape of them and they know exactly who they lock into in what formations and on what downs 

[Ghost420]

On 3/12/2021 at 1:00 PM, slimjasi said:

Also, RG3 was the offensive rookie of the year (and I believe was named to the Pro Bowl) before blowing out his knee. 

 

Rg3 also couldn't play from the pocket

[slimjasi]

On 3/12/2021 at 3:25 PM, Philc1 said:

RG3 got exposed.  

I think it was a combination of things, but I don’t think his confidence was ever the same after his injury in that disastrous playoff game

[Philc1]

On 3/12/2021 at 6:44 PM, RichardTodd27 said:

None of the QB's you named was within the last 4 years (Haskins aint athletic).

Times have changed. The new breed of athletic QB's are pretty close to sure things.

#JustDraftJustin is going viral.

 

 

[Philc1]

7 hours ago, Ghost420 said:

Rg3 also couldn't play from the pocket

RG3 was a one trick pony as a rookie.  He was constantly in the pistol formation running the same plays over and over

[greenwichjetfan]

On 3/10/2021 at 3:38 PM, Paradis said:

Questionable premise for a thread, I’ll concede. But I thought it stood out from other retread talking-points just enough.

He Likens the recent over analysis and seemingly empty criticisms to the way that the community talked themselves out of Justin Herbert last year… Which I would include myself as part of the latter since I saw a lot of decision-making and accuracy questions.

Anyone else feel like this is a good for parallel with fields? He hasn’t stopped progressing/developing yet but it already feels like a stretch that JD will take him. 

 

On 3/11/2021 at 1:27 PM, greenwichjetfan said:

Love Fields and think he has every right to be the #2 pick. I think his ceiling is higher than Lawrence's as well, but his floor is far lower which is why Trevor is definitely the #1 pick. I'm worried sick about Wilson and Lance. Wouldn't mind Jones but he's a mid to late 1st for me and I know he'll go much higher than that. 

Herbert playing tonight. Just thinking about how we had a chance to take a similarly gifted QB who fell due to over analysis, but instead took one who had a worse season and can't stay on the field. 

[Charlie Brown]

On 3/11/2021 at 7:39 AM, Charlie Brown said:

I agree how in the world Fields not 1,2 or 3 on anyone’s board is amazing to me. 

Ummmmmm I just want to point out how wise and sagacious some posters truly are....  

[Matt39]

7 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

 

Herbert playing tonight. Just thinking about how we had a chance to take a similarly gifted QB who fell due to over analysis, but instead took one who had a worse season and can't stay on the field. 

You think Justin Fields is near Herbert???

[maury77]

7 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

 

Herbert playing tonight. Just thinking about how we had a chance to take a similarly gifted QB who fell due to over analysis, but instead took one who had a worse season and can't stay on the field. 

Thanks for the unexpected shot to the nuts ..... FML. If Fields plays well against the Jets this year and Wilson plays poorly that day, I'm asking @Maxman to just go ahead and ban me for the following week because I'm going to be in a foul mood. 

[Icer]

Zach might suck, but none of the QBs from his draft have done anything impressive.

[slimjasi]

12 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Thanks for the unexpected shot to the nuts ..... FML. If Fields plays well against the Jets this year and Wilson plays poorly that day, I'm asking @Maxman to just go ahead and ban me for the following week because I'm going to be in a foul mood. 

So, I’m a guy who wanted to draft Fields, but I don’t get being confident that Wilson is trash but thinking fields is good.

neither has done anything to distinguish himself from the other. I think he was 8-17 for 121 last week.

the advantage fields has over Wilson so far is that he’s been more durable. Neither has lived up to his potential on the field. 

 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

So, I’m a guy who wanted to draft Fields, but I don’t get being confident that Wilson is trash but thinking fields is good.

neither has done anything to distinguish himself from the other. I think he was 8-17 for 121 last week.

the advantage fields has over Wilson so far is that he’s been more durable. Neither has lived up to his potential on the field. 

 

ehh, i don't know if that's exactly accurate. Fields has played on a offense that was somehow worse. This year, dramatically so. Doesn't excuse all of his growing pains, but to say durability is the only thing he has going for him over Zach is.... ehhhhh

Justin Fields has been a project since he came out of HS... But he's always evolved. He went from being a "run first QB" at UGA to out playing Trevor Lawrence.. Point being he was supposed take time to develop in the NFL.

Zach Wilson has looked disturbingly slow to pick up the nuances of the position. He hasn't seized the day, yet. He's not who the Jets brass thought he was. Can they salvage/develop ZW? We'll see, but he has not been as advertised. 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

ehh, i don't know if that's exactly accurate. Fields has played on a offense that was somehow worse. This year, dramatically so. Doesn't excuse all of his growing pains, but to say durability is the only thing he has going for him over Zach is.... ehhhhh

Ok - what has fields done on the field to distinguish himself from Wilson or really any other 2nd year QB? Be specific.

he was 8 for 17 for 121 last week. If Wilson did that in week 1, ya’ll would be killing him

just looking for a little consistency in these arguments.

there is nothing wrong with liking fields better, but you are largely basing that on traits and potential and little else. Just like Wilson fans are.

 

[greenwichjetfan]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

You think Justin Fields is near Herbert???

No, but I can see how not reading the posts you’re quoting would cause you to arrive at that misconception.

[greenwichjetfan]

Just now, slimjasi said:

Ok - what has fields done on the field to distinguish himself from Wilson or really any other 2nd year QB? Be specific.

he was 8 for 17 for 121 last week. If Wilson did that in week 1, ya’ll would be killing him

just looking for a little consistency in these arguments.

there is nothing wrong with liking fields better, but you are largely basing that on traits and potential and little else. Just like Wilson fans are.

 

Fields was better than Zach by Y/A last year while playing more games on a worse offense.

This year, Fields led a CFB win after being down 10 to a solid team. Zach Wilson is either injured again or pretending to be injured again.

There’s nothing wrong with liking Wilson, but you are largely ignoring actual things that have happened.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

9 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

he was 8 for 17 for 121 last week. If Wilson did that in week 1, ya’ll would be killing him

You’re neglecting the fact the game was played in a freaking monsoon.

Fields isn’t Herbert, but he can also do stuff Herbert can’t as a rushing threat while he continues to develop.

And I tend not to complain after wins.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Fields was better than Zach by Y/A last year while playing more games on a worse offense.

This year, Fields led a CFB win after being down 10 to a solid team. Zach Wilson is either injured again or pretending to be injured again.

There’s nothing wrong with liking Wilson, but you are largely ignoring actual things that have happened.

LMAO 

6.1 vs 6.9. Neither is anywhere near good enough. Fields had a bad rookie season, just like Wilson did. 

and stop pretending like he did anything impressive last week. He completed less than half his passes. 

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

You’re neglecting the fact the game was played in a freaking monsoon.

Fields isn’t Herbert, but he can also do stuff Herbert can’t as a rushing threat while he continues to develop.

I like fields as a prospect and I liked him more than Wilson  

I’m just pointing out that fields hasn’t really done anything yet in the league.
 

You guys like his potential and his talent. I do, too. That still doesn’t change the fact that, materially, the big difference between Fields and Wilson is durability - which is HUGE, btw. But it hasn’t been their play on the field. 

[greenwichjetfan]

18 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

LMAO 

6.1 vs 6.9. Neither is anywhere near good enough. Fields had a bad rookie season, just like Wilson did. 

and stop pretending like he did anything impressive last week. He completed less than half his passes. 

As I said - feel free to ignore actual things that happened.

6.9 vs 6.1 might not mean much to someone who doesn’t want to see it. But I see that Zach earned that 6.1 playing with a better offense than Fields earned his 6.9. I also see that Zach was worse than every single QB in the league last year except Mr. Generational. Fields’ 6.9 is closer to Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, and Tom Brady than it is to Zach and Trevor.

Last week, he was down 10 in a monsoon against a solid 49ers team in the second half, and he threw 2 TDs to win the game. Zach was hiding behind an injury.

Again, actual things that happened.

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

As I said - feel free to ignore actual things that happened.

6.9 vs 6.1 might not mean much to someone who doesn’t want to see it. But I see that Zach earned that 6.1 playing with a better offense than Fields earned his 6.9. I also see that Zach was worse than every single QB in the league last year except Mr. Generational. Fields’ 6.9 is closer to Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, and Tom Brady than it is to Zach and Trevor.

Last week, he was down 10 in a monsoon against a solid 49ers team in the second half, and he threw 2 TDs to win the game. Zach was hiding behind an injury.

Again, actual things that happened.

I don’t think 6.1 vs 6.9 is a meaningful difference in a rookie year - especially when you consider the overall quality of play by both guys. Neither guy was very good last year, but both guys have some traits that really good QBs have, so you’d like to give them something on the order of 25-40 starts to figure out the NFL.

Your other big point is durability - which, as I said in my first post, is the major difference between Fields and Wilson right now. 
 

I’m not anti Fields, in fact - I would trade Wilson for Fields right now and would have on draft day. This is primarily because, as I posted throughout the lead up to that draft, I have always been worried about Wilson’s durability. 

[jgb]

On 3/12/2021 at 10:33 AM, Philc1 said:

Sure, Dwayne Haskins, Vince Young, Paxton Lynch, RG3, Marcus Mariota

 

And I hated all of them pre-draft

*scans list*

*doesn’t see Trubisky*

[Irish Jet]

I have never seen so much fawning over a player who has been objectively terrible.

[jgb]

13 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I have never seen so much fawning over a player who has been objectively terrible.

Magical thinking in action. If any of these folks had a gun to the head they’d all predict that he will never be good.

[maury77]

8 hours ago, slimjasi said:

So, I’m a guy who wanted to draft Fields, but I don’t get being confident that Wilson is trash but thinking fields is good.

neither has done anything to distinguish himself from the other. I think he was 8-17 for 121 last week.

the advantage fields has over Wilson so far is that he’s been more durable. Neither has lived up to his potential on the field. 

 

Who said anything about being confident? I said "IF .....".

Wilson and Fields were both bad last season. Fields was bad in the first half last week, but played well in the second half and pulled out the win. The rain was bad in Chicago so I could give him a little bit of a pass. 

I'm a fan of Fields, what can I say, but I'm by no means very confident he's going to pan out, particularly given the team surrounding him in Chicago. 

That being said (and here is where I'm going to get in trouble), I expected Fields to struggle his first year and improve his second year. A lot of people argued that Wilson was a better NFL prospect because he was more "NFL ready". That turned out to be a load of BS because both players greatly struggled their first year. If they were both going to struggle and needed similar time to acclimate themselves to the NFL, then the Jets should have picked the better athlete that was more durable.