Beer; Justin Fields over analysis reminds me of J Herbert.

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Oh not suggesting otherwise. But with a solid run blocking OL it makes sense they will run as much as possible. Interestingly Fields is struggling despite the Bears having the best pass blocking OL in the NFL so far. Some of this of course is because they pass so little that defenses are more keying run but still that's not good for Fields.

Interestingly Carolina has one of the best overall OL in the NFL yet Mayfield has been one of the worst QBs in the NFL and not surprisingly the Jets OL is below average in both pass and run blocking. Flacco does bring down the PBWR though

 

 

Good points.  And Fields has been part of that too.  He's carried it 27 times so far this season.  That rate (9x per game) is decidedly higher than it was for him as a rookie (6.5x per game).

I just figured they'd let him run after dropping back more than they have as opposed to called QB run plays.  

[slimjasi]

27 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I really wanted the Jets to draft Fields over Wilson, largely because I thought his athleticism would get him through the rookie learning curve better than Wilson.  So far neither looks like they will be a legit QB, but they are both still young enough that hopefully they can get it

I did, as well. Fields was my QB2 after Lawrence. 

He's been disappointing, so far. 

[Biggs]

On 9/21/2022 at 6:50 PM, slimjasi said:

On the flip side, we have already seen Fields play two games in year 2, while Wilson hasn’t played yet. 
 

if the year 2 jump for fields is coming, it hasn’t come yet. 

I’m always fascinated to see people use QBR, or any single metric, like this. FYI, Joe Flacco has a lower QBR than Trey Lance this year. Give me Joe’s two games over Lance’s two games, any day of the week. Josh Allen had the sixth best QBR last season - he was easily one of the 2 or 3 best QBs I saw last year. 
 

There is no single metric that perfectly summarizes a QB’s performance, so something like QBR really can’t be used to say things like “QB X was better than QB Y” - you can only say that “QB X had a higher QBR than QB Y”

Btw, if you compare apples to apples: Zach Wilson had a slightly higher QBR LAST season (33.4) than Justin Fields did LAST season (31.4). We haven’t seen Wilson in year 2 yet. 

 

[SuicidalSince98]

14 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

agree to a point, I have not given up on Wilson yet, but the fact that he hasnt played yet is becuase of injuries which does seem to be a problem with him, and is a definite concern. 

Are you concerned with injuries with burrow and Rodgers? 
 

Mahomes hurt his knee running a qb sneak

[Flea Flicking Frank]

10 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Are you concerned with injuries with burrow and Rodgers? 
 

Mahomes hurt his knee running a qb sneak

Look, I want Zach to be successfsul, I really do, and I have not given up on him and want to see him get a fair shot this year to show enough improvement to warrant being given the job next year. But I'd be lying if I said his lack of being able to stay on the field isnt concerning. Hoepfully he proves me wrong and these were flukes

[maury77]

I’m as big of a Fields fan as anyone here, but I just don’t think he can process fast enough.

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, maury77 said:

I’m as big of a Fields fan as anyone here, but I just don’t think he can process fast enough.

Ohio State’s system does these kids no favors.  I’m still hoping Zach shows something, ANYTHING, because this year’s class is looking like…WOOF…outside of Bryce Young.  I was a Stroud guy, but the whole Fields situation is giving me serious pause.

[slimjasi]

12 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Ohio State’s system does these kids no favors.  I’m still hoping Zach shows something, ANYTHING, because this year’s class is looking like…WOOF…outside of Bryce Young.  I was a Stroud guy, but the whole Fields situation is giving me serious pause.

Stroud is my favorite QB of the bunch, but I have the same basic reservation about OSU

[maury77]

42 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Ohio State’s system does these kids no favors.  I’m still hoping Zach shows something, ANYTHING, because this year’s class is looking like…WOOF…outside of Bryce Young.  I was a Stroud guy, but the whole Fields situation is giving me serious pause.

I'm going to start a thread on the 2021 QB class in the draft forum at some point. Re Stroud, the ball comes out A LOT faster than with Fields and the anticipation is impressive. 

One guy that is growing on me as a second round prospect is Hendon Hooker from Tennessee. 

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I'm going to start a thread on the 2021 QB class in the draft forum at some point. Re Stroud, the ball comes out A LOT faster than with Fields and the anticipation is impressive. 

One guy that is growing on me as a second round prospect is Hendon Hooker from Tennessee. 

Fields performance against Northwestern is basically how he’s looked as a pro. 

[GreenFish]

4 hours ago, FootballLove said:

Any chance the 2021 QB class suffers the same fate as the 2018 class??? If you had to bet your house RIGHT NOW on a 2021 QB to save the entire class from another historic low, who would that QB be? Lance? Fields? Zack? Or maybe that long hair skinny QB in Jacksonville?

If you had the power to swap 2021 QBs around anyway you wish, who is our QB going forward? Your answer will be our starting QB for the next decade, win lose or draw.

GO!

and who would you stick in NE? Mac? Fields? Zack?

If I were a betting man I would buy Lawrence for sure. I would buy low on Lance. I watched him a bit and he looked capable of going through his progressions. Add to that his ability to run and sling it. I think he’ll be a FQB.

I am not buying Fields at all. I would also not buy Jones and Mills. They look look like meh QBs.

I need to see Zach for a few games to confirm what I believe he can become. 

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

I'm going to start a thread on the 2021 QB class in the draft forum at some point. Re Stroud, the ball comes out A LOT faster than with Fields and the anticipation is impressive. 

One guy that is growing on me as a second round prospect is Hendon Hooker from Tennessee. 

Thanks.  I haven’t done my deep dives yet but I will certainly look heavily at them both!

[FootballLove]

4 hours ago, GreenFish said:

If I were a betting man I would buy Lawrence for sure. I would buy low on Lance. I watched him a bit and he looked capable of going through his progressions. Add to that his ability to run and sling it. I think he’ll be a FQB.

I am not buying Fields at all. I would also not buy Jones and Mills. They look look like meh QBs.

I need to see Zach for a few games to confirm what I believe he can become. 

3 games into their 2nd season, I think you're spot on. Only saving grace is Zack hasn't played yet (this year). Hopefully him and Lawrence will be battling for years to come...something we hoped for Mayfield and Sammy.

[Grandy]

Have no idea what's happening here. He had a good preseason after a rookie campaign that showed promise. Now, even with a great running game, Fields looks atrocious. 

In the draft process I was really impressed with his accuracy and athleticism, but it just seems too fast for him right now. 

[jgb]

13 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Look, I want Zach to be successfsul, I really do, and I have not given up on him and want to see him get a fair shot this year to show enough improvement to warrant being given the job next year. But I'd be lying if I said his lack of being able to stay on the field isnt concerning. Hoepfully he proves me wrong and these were flukes

 

Aren’t you the dude running around on every other thread hounding anyone who expresses pessimism about BYU?

 

[derp]

19 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

As far as learning from mistakes - how does one go about scouting for quarterbacks that 'see the field well' first?

There's a floor of arm strength that matters, as well as a bonus of athletic traits, but the common denominator in nearly every bust is that a dude just cannot get past his first read. 

I'm just curious as to how they scout for this? 

There were some decision making stats for Fields and Wilson that were concerning. I have to dig back a little since I don’t know how parallel they were. I believe Wilson’s time to throw in general was just absurdly long. He benefitted from an incredible BYU OL and it was difficult to tell how he’d deal with pressure in the pros. For Fields, I think he took longer to throw when blitzed than he did when not blitzed - which is the opposite of what should happen.

It’s kind of funny, we saw Burrow kill the Jets on a blitz last week. He’s awesome against blitzes. So is Mahomes. But if a guy can’t handle the blitz and there’s no reason for teams not to get after him, they’ll just attack until he shows he has an answer. And if there’s no answer that’s basically it. We look at so much arm strength, accuracy, etc - but if a guy doesn’t have answers against pressure none of that other stuff matters. And I think how guys react and process in those split seconds is harder to teach than it gets credit for.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, derp said:

There were some decision making stats for Fields and Wilson that were concerning. I have to dig back a little since I don’t know how parallel they were. I believe Wilson’s time to throw in general was just absurdly long. He benefitted from an incredible BYU OL and it was difficult to tell how he’d deal with pressure in the pros. For Fields, I think he took longer to throw when blitzed than he did when not blitzed - which is the opposite of what should happen.

It’s kind of funny, we saw Burrow kill the Jets on a blitz last week. He’s awesome against blitzes. So is Mahomes. But if a guy can’t handle the blitz and there’s no reason for teams not to get after him, they’ll just attack until he shows he has an answer. And if there’s no answer that’s basically it. We look at so much arm strength, accuracy, etc - but if a guy doesn’t have answers against pressure none of that other stuff matters. And I think how guys react and process in those split seconds is harder to teach than it gets credit for.

 

Very good points.  And as for the bold, yes, I think those split second reactions come down to DNA + instincts learned/instilled early on in a QB's development (like even in HS in some cases) having a lot to do with how a QB performs in those moments.

As the famous quote goes, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.  A QB being cool under pressure and being able to process quickly isn't really something that can be taught.  A QB has it or he doesn't.  And sometimes you don't really learn whether a QB has it or not until he's facing live bullets at the pro level.  

[JiFields]

21 hours ago, maury77 said:

I’m as big of a Fields fan as anyone here, but I just don’t think he can process fast enough.

Just saw a stat that he's seeing pressure on 51% of his drop backs.  He might just stink, I certainly cant defend him anymore but I'm still a little bullish in that I think he's an example of an organization failing a player.  Wouldnt be shocked to see him on another team in a few years figuring it out.  As much as I loved him as a prospect, I was adamant on the idea he needed to sit his rookie year and he needed the right situation to develop him properly.  The Bears forced him into action under miserable circumstances and then somehow, got worse on offense during the offseason.  Again, he might just suck out loud and I can live with being wrong and glad we didnt take him but I dont think he's been given the opportunity to excel at what he does well w/ the Bears.  However,  I'd rather be 2-1 w/ a 2nd year QB sucking vs. 1-2 w/ a 2nd QB year who hasnt seen the field.

 

 

[derp]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Very good points.  And as for the bold, yes, I think those split second reactions come down to DNA + instincts learned/instilled early on in a QB's development (like even in HS in some cases) having a lot to do with how a QB performs in those moments.

As the famous quote goes, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.  A QB being cool under pressure and being able to process quickly isn't really something that can be taught.  A QB has it or he doesn't.  And sometimes you don't really learn whether a QB has it or not until he's facing live bullets at the pro level.  

Definitely true it’s hard to tell if a guy can process quickly in college, but there are hints like there were with Fields - and I don’t think Wilson was pressured much but I don’t think the results were good.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

8 hours ago, jgb said:

 

Aren’t you the dude running around on every other thread hounding anyone who expresses pessimism about BYU?

 

no, quite the contrary, only the ones who are trolling the rest of the Jets fans. There are plenty of Jets fans who hold negative views about "BYU" who arent trolling, its the ones who troll, who I call out as a troll, troll

[k-met57]

31 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Just saw a stat that he's seeing pressure on 51% of his drop backs.  He might just stink, I certainly cant defend him anymore but I'm still a little bullish in that I think he's an example of an organization failing a player.  Wouldnt be shocked to see him on another team in a few years figuring it out.  As much as I loved him as a prospect, I was adamant on the idea he needed to sit his rookie year and he needed the right situation to develop him properly.  The Bears forced him into action under miserable circumstances and then somehow, got worse on offense during the offseason.  Again, he might just suck out loud and I can live with being wrong and glad we didnt take him but I dont think he's been given the opportunity to excel at what he does well w/ the Bears.  However,  I'd rather be 2-1 w/ a 2nd year QB sucking vs. 1-2 w/ a 2nd QB year who hasnt seen the field.

 

 

told you....

 

 

 

kidding.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

no, quite the contrary, only the ones who are trolling the rest of the Jets fans. There are plenty of Jets fans who hold negative views about "BYU" who arent trolling, its the ones who troll, who I call out as a troll, troll

A man asks a woman if she would be willing to sleep with him if he pays her an exorbitant sum. She replies affirmatively. He then names a paltry amount and asks if she would still be willing to sleep with him for the revised fee. The woman is greatly offended and replies as follows:

She: What kind of woman do you think I am?
He: We’ve already established that. Now we’re just haggling over the price.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

A man asks a woman if she would be willing to sleep with him if he pays her an exorbitant sum. She replies affirmatively. He then names a paltry amount and asks if she would still be willing to sleep with him for the revised fee. The woman is greatly offended and replies as follows:

She: What kind of woman do you think I am?
He: We’ve already established that. Now we’re just haggling over the price.

[jgb]

Wrong thread 

[slimjasi]

I didn't realize that Fields has the fewest total passing yards (297) in three straight games of any QB since 1975. Yea . . . that's not sustainable. 

Sink or swim, they have to let him throw the ball. He only has 6.6. yards/attempt, so a lot of it is on him, but they still need to let him throw the ball more.