Pauline: Jets leaning towards Zach Wilson

[oatmeal]

26 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I've all but mentally surrendered re: this draft and who we're taking at #2.

It's probably Wilson.

He's the last player I'd take, I think he's undersized, has played underwhelming competition, and is basically a one year hype wonder with too little resume and too much hype.  And despite what some say, I don't see anything "NFL Special" when I see his play on video.

But I guess I'll have to hope I'm wrong.  Because more and more I am starting to believe he is the guy they want.  Just makes vastly too much sense from a CYA perspective for the GM (Wilson is by and away the "safe" move for a GM in that spot) and it resets the J.D.-on-the-hot-seat clock, basically meaning nothing he's done the past two years matter, he may as well be considered a rookie GM this year, perception wise.

If he's the pick, I'm gonna be pretty down about it, but such is life.  All you can do is hope you're 100% wrong, because if he's the pick, he's the guy for at least 3-4 years minimum, just like Sam was.  Just would love one of these cycles to not feel like they're drafting obviously flawed QB's.

 

Yea it’s like when you sit back and look at this situation without any biases and just examine the facts, it becomes very obvious where this thing is heading. With that being said I think Fields and Watson are still strong possibilities 

[Wonderboy]

2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

The rest of you should just get on board with Zach Wilson. It’s okay. Join the dark side.

Cant Wait

[slimjasi]

10 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you...

Indeed, leaking the idea that you are going to Draft Wilson HURTS the Jets by LOWERING the potential trade value of Sam Darnold, because folks now believe that you are trying to get rid of Darnold, unless less you are willing to carry both QBs!!

6 minutes ago, genot said:

👍👍👍

You guys are missing the fact that leaks, by the very definition of the word, are not all intentional. 

No offense, but I think you guys are hearing what you want to hear. 

I still have no idea what the Jets are going to do. 

[Wonderboy]

2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

The rest of you should just get on board with Zach Wilson. It’s okay. Join the dark side.

OHHHHH NOOOO

 

[Bruce Harper]

11 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

If it is Wilson, the Jets are set back by at least 4 years and Joe Douglas will go down in Jets history as another "also ran" 

Wilson is a bust waiting to happen.  So is Fields.

Keep Darnold and draft the best WR or OL, or if it must be a QB take Mac Jones...

So suppose Darnold plays a bit better (average) and the team goes 8-8 or 7-9.  We're picking 16th, which won't get us a top QB.  Do you give Darnold the big contract?  Seems like a crappy place to be.  I don't see Wilson as a bust.  Wouldn't you rather have someone with an upside on a rookie contract for four or five years?  When do you think we will pick second again?

[slimjasi]

I say this as a guy who prefers Fields to Wilson - 

If the Jets think Wilson is the best QB available at 2, they should take him. At the end of the day, they have a major weakness at QB and have the chance to take their second favorite one in the draft. It's hard for me to say that they shouldn't just do that. 

[oatmeal]

17 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you...

Indeed, leaking the idea that you are going to Draft Wilson HURTS the Jets by LOWERING the potential trade value of Sam Darnold, because folks now believe that you are trying to get rid of Darnold, unless less you are willing to carry both QBs!!

That ship already sailed when Joe Douglas said “I will answer calls for Sam”

[kevinc855]

2 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

After much consternation I'm thinking Wilson is the way to go.  I don't want to trade three or four Firsts for a QB, as good as he is.  We need a lot of good players.

Sure but if we bust out on QB AGAIN it won’t matter how much talent we aqcquire.

QB first and Watson is a sure bet 

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

So suppose Darnold plays a bit better (average) and the team goes 8-8 or 7-9.  We're picking 16th, which won't get us a top QB.  Do you give Darnold the big contract?  Seems like a crappy place to be.  I don't see Wilson as a bust.  Wouldn't you rather have someone with an upside on a rookie contract for four or five years?  When do you think we will pick second again?

one huge underrated issue with keeping darnold.  a reasonable best case for darnold is that he morphs into garroppolo, a serviceable game manager who makes some mistakes which can be somewhat reduced in a system.  is that what they want, a game manager type qb who you have to pay a lot of money to keep or else start all over in the qb search when you don't have a top pick?  this is the year to address qb, not defer to next season.  

[Wonderboy]

19 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Well I know Dilfer didn't have the illustrious career of Chris Simms AKA Nostradamus. 

Chris Simms claim to fame : being the son of Phil Simms.

[slimjasi]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

one huge underrated issue with keeping darnold.  a reasonable best case for darnold is that he morphs into garroppolo, a serviceable game manager who makes some mistakes which can be somewhat reduced in a system.  is that what they want, a game manager type qb who you have to pay a lot of money to keep or else start all over in the qb search when you don't have a top pick?  this is the year to address qb, not defer to next season.  

The Darnold defenders would argue that Sam can still be better than a game manager. 

[football guy]

39 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i can really see them trading back and taking pitts, that's a jetsy move.  and truth the guy seems like a beast.  but i still don't think they have as much faith in darnold as they're letting on and they're just waiting for the right trade offer and then darnold will be gone and the draft will become more predictable.

I think the issue is people need to stop evaluating from a marketing/emotional perspective RE: QB. Usually you think "the team needs to be absolutely sold on the QB... the HC needs to be paired with his QB", but I think they truly look at this as a team sport. They may like some aspects of having Wilson (rookie deal, no NFL warts, clean slate, unique talent), as they like aspects of having Darnold. There's a real possibility that the Jets come away more impressed with Wilson yet still stick with Darnold. Fans would criticize that, especially if it didn't work out, but I think ultimately the Jets want to figure out what builds them the better team... as I've said 10000 times now, which is more valuable: QB Darnold + value of #2, or QB #2 + value of Darnold?

If the Jets finish their evals and come away feeling Zach Wilson is head-and-shoulders above what Darnold can be AND get a good offer for Darnold, I'd think they make that move. But not because of the marketing or the desire to get a "face of the franchise" or to "pair the HC/QB"... hell not even due to Darnold's production, but because they determine that QB Wilson + the value for Darnold in a trade is better than QB Darnold + the value for #2 in a trade. 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

First intelligent post from you for 2021.  Good job, pork chop.

Well this is terrifying

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

In order for any trade scenario to work, other teams have to believe that the Jets are absolutely committed to taking Wilson in the 2 spot. Otherwise, the Texans, etc, could sit back and just cut a deal with the Dolphins.

From your lips to Douglas’s ears please. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

On 3/12/2021 at 10:21 AM, football guy said:

I think the issue is people need to stop evaluating from a marketing/emotional perspective RE: QB. Usually you think "the team needs to be absolutely sold on the QB... the HC needs to be paired with his QB", but I think they truly look at this as a team sport. They may like some aspects of having Wilson (rookie deal, no NFL warts, clean slate, unique talent), as they like aspects of having Darnold. There's a real possibility that the Jets come away more impressed with Wilson yet still stick with Darnold. Fans would criticize that, especially if it didn't work out, but I think ultimately the Jets want to figure out what builds them the better team... as I've said 10000 times now, which is more valuable: QB Darnold + value of #2, or QB #2 + value of Darnold?

If the Jets finish their evals and come away feeling Zach Wilson is head-and-shoulders above what Darnold can be AND get a good offer from Darnold, I'd think they make that move. But not because of the marketing or the desire to get a "face of the franchise" or to "pair the HC/QB"... hell not even due to Darnold's production, but because they determine that QB Wilson + the value for Darnold in a trade is better than QB Darnold + the value for #2 in a trade. 

Good post. I don't see how anyone can deny this.

We want to trade 3-4 firsts for a dude that won 4 games and large portions of this board are salivating over the dude with the second best team in college football - an incredibly unequal sport in distribution of talent. 

Tom Brady threw three second half interceptions in the NFC Championship game but won and Pat Mahomes, the unquestioned most valuable commodity in the sport, threw three interceptions in the Super Bowl (and could've thrown five or six) and lost.

Nobody is denying that quarterback is important, but the obsession has gone too far.

[RichardTodd27]

3 hours ago, Jdub03 said:

I wonder if these are planned leaks to get either Cincinnati to come up for Sewell, or QB hungry team to come for Zack.

But aren't the Jets a "QB hungry" team?

[JetPotato]

2 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Take Sewell at #2, trade Becton to Cincy for their #5 and a 3rd rounder.  You've just upgraded the LT position with the best LT prospect in ages and traded the value of a #11 pick for the value of a #5 pick.  They would bite like a shark at the beach.  They are desperate for a LT.  Take whatever QB is there at #5 or trade back and get more picks. If JD is not absolutely sold on a QB in this draft then just add playmakers.  Sooner or later we have to luck out on a QB.  Herbert, Mahomes, Watson, Rodgers, Brady, etc etc etc were not top 5 picks.  Our roster STINKS and I'm not a big fan of how JD has brought in FA's. He seems to be better at drafting. But it's still early in his GM role so hopefully he hits pay dirt this year.  

Wow. You really went for it in the "sh*tbrained idea" category

[Paradis]

29 minutes ago, football guy said:

I think ultimately the Jets want to figure out what builds them the better team... as I've said 10000 times now, which is more valuable: QB Darnold + value of #2, or QB #2 + value of Darnold. 

Making a splash hire like Saleh bought JD some time to do things the right way — and we will never be in a better position to build through the draft then we are now. 

there’s a real case to be made that trading back and coming out of the first rnd with Pitts AND Waddle in addition to having THREE 1st rnd picks in 2022 is more than worth gambling on Darnold in 2021. 

This was always going to be about kick off in September 2022. 

[sec143dmf]

32 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Sure but if we bust out on QB AGAIN it won’t matter how much talent we aqcquire.

QB first and Watson is a sure bet 

Sure bet to do what?  Go 4-12 and 5-11 like he did last year because he is on a team with no talent.  I'm not giving up that much draft capital just to have a good QB on a bad team.  I really don't get it. 

[slimjasi]

44 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

 

Yea it’s like when you sit back and look at this situation without any biases and just examine the facts, it becomes very obvious where this thing is heading. With that being said I think Fields and Watson are still strong possibilities 

Not sure what to think about Watson at this point, other than I'm pretty sure Douglas isn't interested in giving up 3+ 1st round draft picks for anyone. 

The other thing is - the Texans have to figure their sh*t out. Basically, we can offer the best Watson package, so if the Texans are ever going to get to the point of fielding calls on Watson, it would clearly be in their best interest to do it before draft day. 

 

[Paradis]

8 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Nobody is denying that quarterback is important, but the obsession has gone too far.

 

[Wonderboy]

9 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Wow. You really went for it in the "sh*tbrained idea" category

Say that to his face. I dare you.

[RutgersJetFan]

Gotta go with the Haute Take Boiz here. It's definitely a conspiracy that the Jets are leaning towards two of the consensus top five draft picks with the #2 pick, and favoring a QB no less. What other possible explanation could there be for this other than some grand scheme being put into effect. 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Haute Take Boiz

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Making a splash hire like Saleh bought JD some time to do things the right way — and we will never be in a better position to build through the draft then we are now. 

there’s a real case to be made that trading back and coming out of the first rnd with Pitts AND Waddle in addition to having THREE 1st rnd picks is more than worth gambling on Darnold in 2021. 

This was always going to be about kick off in September 2022. 

I get what you are saying but I don't entirely buy it. The bolded is what everyone said last year about September 2021. Douglas is 9-32 as an NFL GM. Obviously, he has had only one draft and one FA period so far, so he is just getting started. But the media turns on you quickly in today's world. If the Jets don't make considerable progress in 2021, JD will immediately be on the hot seat. The pressure will be increased by tenfold if Darnold sucks again and any of the QBs he passed on have any modicum of  early success. 

If JD believes that the strongest team the Jets can field going forward comes from keeping Sam at QB + acquiring a bunch of draft capital by trading out of #2, then so be it. But he better have a legit backup plan at QB (Winston?), because if Sam sh*ts the bed again and we start the season 0 for September again next year, things are going to get extremely ugly extremely quickly. 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

14 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Making a splash hire like Saleh bought JD some time to do things the right way — and we will never be in a better position to build through the draft then we are now. 

there’s a real case to be made that trading back and coming out of the first rnd with Pitts AND Waddle in addition to having THREE 1st rnd picks in 2022 is more than worth gambling on Darnold in 2021. 

This was always going to be about kick off in September 2022.

You might be right and the saddest part is that we hit the delay button on the rebuild by about about a year in having Mac stumble is way out of one last offseason.

[slimjasi]

Sewell at 2 has never made any sense to me

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I've all but mentally surrendered re: this draft and who we're taking at #2.

It's probably Wilson.

He's the last player I'd take, I think he's undersized, has played underwhelming competition, and is basically a one year hype wonder with too little resume and too much hype.  And despite what some say, I don't see anything "NFL Special" when I see his play on video.

But I guess I'll have to hope I'm wrong.  Because more and more I am starting to believe he is the guy they want.  Just makes vastly too much sense from a CYA perspective for the GM (Wilson is by and away the "safe" move for a GM in that spot) and it resets the J.D.-on-the-hot-seat clock, basically meaning nothing he's done the past two years matter, he may as well be considered a rookie GM this year, perception wise.

If he's the pick, I'm gonna be pretty down about it, but such is life.  All you can do is hope you're 100% wrong, because if he's the pick, he's the guy for at least 3-4 years minimum, just like Sam was.  Just would love one of these cycles to not feel like they're drafting obviously flawed QB's.

You and I disagree on Wilson as a prospect but the bolded is exactly correct.

Which is I why, after all the noise, research and posturing trading Sam and taking a QB at 2 was always going to be the case.

I believe it will be Wilson, I hope it's Wilson but when all's said and done whatever QB the team likes the most I will on-board with.

 

For what it's worth...Trevor Lawrence weighed in at 213 at his pro-day - while Zach Wilson recently said he's 216 (don't know if it's true, just what he said).  I hear NOTHING about Lawrence's frame (he 6'6" at 213), or his shoulder surgery.  

Just saying - he really isn't nearly as undersized as people are making him out to be.  Aaron Rodger is 6'3" 220 vs. Wilson 6'3" 216.  Is 4 pounds really the reason you don't want to take a QB?

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

You and I disagree on Wilson as a prospect but the bolded is exactly correct.

Which is I why, after all the noise, research and posturing trading Sam and taking a QB at 2 was always going to be the case.

I believe it will be Wilson, I hope it's Wilson but when all's said and done whatever QB the team likes the most I will on-board with.

 

For what it's worth...Trevor Lawrence weighed in at 213 at his pro-day - while Zach Wilson recently said he's 216 (don't know if it's true, just what he said).  I hear NOTHING about Lawrence's frame (he 6'6" at 213), or his shoulder surgery.  

Just saying - he really isn't nearly as undersized as people are making him out to be.  Aaron Rodger is 6'3" 220 vs. Wilson 6'3" 216.  Is 4 pounds really the reason you don't want to take a QB?

I'm still worried about his injury history, but I do agree that the "small frame" stuff is a little overblown with Wilson. It was a major sticking point for me a month ago, but as I've carefully looked at other recent successful prospects, I've realized that he's not as "small" as I thought he was. 

[THE BARON]

56 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

So suppose Darnold plays a bit better (average) and the team goes 8-8 or 7-9.  We're picking 16th, which won't get us a top QB.  Do you give Darnold the big contract?  Seems like a crappy place to be.  I don't see Wilson as a bust.  Wouldn't you rather have someone with an upside on a rookie contract for four or five years?  When do you think we will pick second again?

All good points.  The problem for all of us is that our prescriptions are based on supposition.  I think Darnold has the tools to be a playoff qb.  However, that is also predicated on a lot of variables.  Will the new CS know how to use him best and will they also give him a good supporting cast.

Lots of moving parts... 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

....Wilson 6'3" 216.  Is 4 pounds really the reason you don't want to take a QB?

I'll be quite honest with you, I don't think he's either of those numbers.

Listen, it should be enough for his fans to be happy he's the likely Jets choice.  It shouldn't be needed to try and convince doubters.

Wilson himself either will or won't do that when he steps on an NFL field.

My expectations of a starting NFL QB have not changed:  65%+, 4,000 Passing Yards+, 2:1 TD:INT Ratio at least.

If Wilson provides that, great.  I'll enjoy my tasty fried Crow sandwich.

If not...

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Wonderboy said:

So stay at 2. Wilson turns out to be a bust. Becton's shelf life could becomes a major issue due to his weight.  There's a reason he wasn't taken top 5.  Not sold on Becton. Not sold on Wilson Fields or Lance.  They are all CRAP Shoots. Sewell was the Outland trophy winner at age 20. Remarkable.  He'd be a definite upgrade to Becton. And you're not moving DOWN 3 spots. DUH. You take Sewell at #2 and trade Becton, who was a #11 pick, to Cincy for their #5 and another pick.   Thats a jump from 11 to 5 which is equivalent to 900 points. 

Damn, that’s an unexpected plot twist!

[Warfish]

Double Post

[The Crusher]

20 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Gotta go with the Haute Take Boiz here. It's definitely a conspiracy that the Jets are leaning towards two of the consensus top five draft picks with the #2 pick, and favoring a QB no less. What other possible explanation could there be for this other than some grand scheme being put into effect. 

It’s like people forgot the art of how not to listen when somebody else is talking. It’s ok to ignore shit kids! 

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I'm still worried about his injury history, but I do agree that the "small frame" stuff is a little overblown with Wilson. It was a major sticking point for me a month ago, but as I've carefully looked at other recent successful prospects, I've realized that he's not as "small" as I thought he was. 

I'm sorry, I really don't mean to be a contrarian here. 

but he missed three games in three years as a starter with a thumb injury (which has NOTHING to do with his size or frame, just bad luck)

The shoulder surgery was mostly an over use thing, he played the entire season, got the surgery after his freshman year and didn't miss a game due to it.  Moreover, it's the same surgery Trevor Lawrence just got.

Certainly I can understand the concerns - I certainly hope JD has concerns and works through them.  I have to believe JD will understand the nature of those shoulder surgeries, how if affects him long term, risk of injuring it etc.

but it is football and guys get hurt, it's not like he's been on the sidelines a lot.  He started for 3 years and missed 3 games his Sophomore year.  That's it.

There's real reason to be high on this kid, I just hope you can come around to be exited on draft night!