***OFFICIAL*** FIRE JOE DOUGLAS THREAD

[Scott Dierking]

7 minutes ago, SAR I said:

But, you see, that's out biggest advantage.

By being the one NFL team that doesn't have to care about its reputation, we can fish in the very large sea of the desperate and the flawed GM candidates.  Bring 'em in, give 'em a 2 year mandate, out the door they go if they don't get it done.  With all the failure we've had with prime GM candidates, I'd rather go after someone that no one believes in and has something to prove.

Browns went from a joke to a legit playoff team by having 3 GM's and 4 HC's in 6 years.  They made quick decisions, they sized them up just as quickly as they would a player, and moved on if they weren't cutting it.  

SAR I

This kind of genius, coming from the same guy in this very thread that "I could tell the Jets players were not motivated as I saw it on their faces".

 

[The Crusher]

15 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Joe Douglas hired the head coach!  He's the Football Man of Flohram Park!  He reports to the owner and the coach reports to him!  Just like the Illuminati wanted!

Saleh's hiring may go down as Douglas' biggest blunder of all.

Surely merits discussion.

SAR I

I say Saleh bring his bff’s little brother along as the OC is close to 1.b

[kevinc855]

2 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

SAR, you know what I have come to accept?  There is no winning the argument concerning JD.  Like so many other GMs, coaches and players who have been lightening rods for criticism, people see what they want to see.  Minds will never be changed.

JD wasn't MAC. So just from that alone, he was given a honeymoon. A year or two ago if you questioned a roster move you were stomped on immediately. 

The temperature has changed a bit here. More people are saying "ok, what's going on here" as we see the product on the field getting actually worse, not better. 

To buy time, Saleh has said JUST THAT, about the team getting worse before it gets better. JD is trying to rest his clock with Saleh, but the Jets do not even look close due to a bad 2020 JD draft and some real misses in FA. I don't think watching these post game pressers Saleh expected to be where they are at. I think Zach has made more mistakes then anticipated. I think LaFlour expected more of the offense to understand his designs. Moore has been a non factor. Miims, thats whole thing is just weird. There is alot bad things going on the offensive side of the ball right now.

One Jets Drive is a little nervous right now, but there is 12 games of football left. We will see. Regardless of what you read here, people are going to be judged by wins and loses in the National Football League. 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

When we are sitting at 3-30 and you're having a rotten New Year's Eve, you are going to say how right we were and beg for admittance into the club.  And we are going to say 'no'. 

You're the same geniuses who wanted Mark Sanchez gone and said it would be soooo easy to replace him and that Rex Ryan was going to make us paaaaay on the Bills and said all these Joe Douglas premium draft picks were going to lead us to glory.

You.  Know.  Nothing.  Jets Illuminati.  Know.  Nothing.  You haven't been right about anything.  But you act like you have.  It's hysterical.

SAR I

hahahahahaha

you dont really think we wont win another game all year right? what am i saying of course you do or you wouldn't be the President of the "Fire JD Club" 

for the record i love Rex and Sanchez. 

your right i dont know anything..... and you want to know who else knows nothing ...YOU!!! that's what's hysterical.

you have been negative for so long you dont know how to be positive. you got a rookie HC and QB and you act like this is year 4 of there careers. but i guess thats what makes you the "President" 

All Hail the Chief!!!

[doitny]

18 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

SAR, you know what I have come to accept?  There is no winning the argument concerning JD.  Like so many other GMs, coaches and players who have been lightening rods for criticism, people see what they want to see.  Minds will never be changed.

i dont believe thats true.

i have been defending JD left and right but thats because i am more understanding of the situation then others. JD doesn't have a lifetime job here.

this isnt year 3 of Gase and year 4 of Darnold. then heads would roll at the end of the season. but its year 1 for both QB and HC. and year 2 for the GM. i am understanding to that and all the kids on this team to except 4-5 wins.

but by next year i fully expect 8-9 wins and if not i wont be defending JD anymore. 

 

[Scott Dierking]

19 minutes ago, doitny said:

 

you dont really think we wont win another game all year right? what am i saying of course you do or you wouldn't be the President of the "Fire JD Club" 

 

He isn't the President of any cause. He is the President of the "look at me, and pay attention to me" club. I am the silly one to give him the attention he craves. 

[kevinc855]

7 minutes ago, doitny said:

but by next year i fully expect 8-9 wins

I think this is a fair assessment. Plus if he doesnt hit 9 wins in 2022 that would 4 straight seasons under his tenure with a losing record. That's fireable territory, Idzik or Mac didnt even have that starting their tenures off. 

2022 is kinda a make or break year, add on the two early first rounders and second rounders he will have. He 100 percent HAS to hit on those selections. 

 

[Big_Slick]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Its easy to say you would have picked a player or players that became stars when you discuss six possible picks and then when one turns into a star you say, I had him at the top of my board.  Its like when I worked at OTB and the gamblers would say, shlt, I had that horse.  You looked at their racing sheet when they showed it to you and yes they had that horse, and 3 others.  

Becton isnt a question mark, hes a huge talent you has played well.  A guy who wasnt an injured player in 3 years of college turns into an injured NFL player it isnt a knock on anyone.  And hes a little young to make predictions that he will be injury prone off of a knee and shoulder injury a year ago.  I'm not knocking him for "Zach looking terrible".  Lawrence looks the same, Fields and Lance worse.  4 GMs suck at drafting because their rookie QBs look like rookies?  Would Zach look the same if he played on a talented team like NE or even SF?  You think maybe being on the youngest team in the NFL might be part of the problem, that theyre all trying to learn the game? 

Look at the young secondary and tell me he hasnt made any good picks on day 2 or 3

Hope I'm wrong re: Becton but his injury history in the NFL is not a good omen.

And I don't do draft boards but I've watched the draft and cried when Jets passed on Warren Sap and tons of other players that fans wanted.

[Big_Slick]

3 hours ago, jamesr said:

Yeah, much better to have 5 one year rebuilds so we get the satisfaction of firing more people.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
 

Once a guy shows he doesn't have it you cut your losses as soon as possible. Just common sense.

[kevinc855]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Its easy to say you would have picked a player or players that became stars when you discuss six possible picks and then when one turns into a star you say, I had him at the top of my board.  Its like when I worked at OTB and the gamblers would say, shlt, I had that horse.  You looked at their racing sheet when they showed it to you and yes they had that horse, and 3 others.

Thank you for comparing the draft to the OTB. This is why I call draft picks lottery tickets. 

It's also the reason this rebuild this way ISNT WORKING

[T0mShane]

36 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I say Saleh bring his bff’s little brother along as the OC is close to 1.b

You have to look at the team and ask yourself which is the position group that’s just outright awful, and there really isn’t one on the team. The GM has sprinkled good players across the roster, so why is the team generally non-competitive? It’s the coaching, particularly on the offensive side of the football. Douglas takes a hit for that, but the alternative was hiring Saleh and trying to dictate who he hires for his staff, which means you probably don’t get Saleh.

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You have to look at the team and ask yourself which is the position group that’s just outright awful, and there really isn’t one on the team. The GM has sprinkled good players across the roster, so why is the team generally non-competitive? It’s the coaching, particularly on the offensive side of the football. Douglas takes a hit for that, but the alternative was hiring Saleh and trying to dictate who he hires for his staff, which means you probably don’t get Saleh.

Running back and tight end right now are legit awful. Maybe Carter gets good, but he's not going to be that good. There are no exciting players on the roster. 

[Big_Slick]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

I'm saying that when Jamal was a Jet he was a Pro Bowler, a team leader, and helped us overcome a brutal 1-7 open to an impressive 6-2 finish.  Those are all facts.  You can look them up, if you like.  Whatever we were doing with him and the team was working.  And then we got rid of him.  And then we got rid of Williams.  And then we got rid of Gase.  And now instead of being a team capable of getting 7 wins against weak teams, we are capable of getting 1 win against weak teams.

SAR I

I'm saying Jamal sucks. And he'd suck on any team.

The fact is he is a 210 pound slow ass LB who can't cover or catch and misses tackles.

 

[jamesr]

Once a guy shows he doesn't have it you cut your losses as soon as possible. Just common sense.

If you're convinced the guy you have isn't up for the job then yes, you move on.

I just don't feel that we can adequately judge that to be the case right now. The rest of this year needs to show improvement - even if not wins, we have to start looking competitive for the full game, rather than showing up in the second half down two or three scores. If so then we look forward to 2022. If not then this thread will reach 50k+ posts easily. But I don't see anyone getting fired this year.

NFL franchises don't turn around just like that. They take time to build, and you have to look for the signs that things are heading in the right direction. But there are a lot of people posting here who seen to think you just turn up and start winning straight away because you want to, or because "we've waited long enough".



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[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Running back and tight end right now are legit awful. Maybe Carter gets good, but he's not going to be that good. There are no exciting players on the roster. 

Yeah, TE is probably the worst group overall, but having bad TEs shouldn’t outright tank a team. I think the RB group is struggling because Wilson has been so hopeless. You see what other teams in the league are doing with no-name backs and you realize that the Jets offense is even more aimless than it looks. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, BP said:

 

Internet bets are silly fyi 

Unless they’re charity bets.  Some very nice charities have gotten some money out of my poor betting decisions.  lmao

[The Crusher]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You have to look at the team and ask yourself which is the position group that’s just outright awful, and there really isn’t one on the team. The GM has sprinkled good players across the roster, so why is the team generally non-competitive? It’s the coaching, particularly on the offensive side of the football. Douglas takes a hit for that, but the alternative was hiring Saleh and trying to dictate who he hires for his staff, which means you probably don’t get Saleh.

So you get Saleh and the kid that use to hide behind the couch making fart noises while you and your best friend try to make moves on chicks. 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

So you get Saleh and the kid that use to hide behind the couch making fart noises while you and your best friend try to make moves on chicks. 

Never hire your friends, as they say. A big tell for how Saleh is going to do long-term is what he does with his OC this off-season, assuming the offense stays bad-to-middling. This team will have literally zero time to **** around with Wilson’s development by that point, and they’re going to have to triage the offensive staff with proven coaches before Wilson’s career dies on the vine. If Saleh is resistant to firing LaFleur, you have to fire Saleh too.

[munchmemory]

32 minutes ago, doitny said:

i dont believe thats true.

i have been defending JD left and right but thats because i am more understanding of the situation then others. JD doesn't have a lifetime job here.

this isnt year 3 of Gase and year 4 of Darnold. then heads would roll at the end of the season. but its year 1 for both QB and HC. and year 2 for the GM. i am understanding to that and all the kids on this team to except 4-5 wins.

but by next year i fully expect 8-9 wins and if not i wont be defending JD anymore. 

 

Perfect example to my point.   I'm diametrically opposed to your view.   I think JD is already a failure and--like other first time Jet GMs--should never have been hired.  I'd be happy if ownership fired him, but don't think that will happen until another losing season next year.

[Lith]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, TE is probably the worst group overall, but having bad TEs shouldn’t outright tank a team. I think the RB group is struggling because Wilson has been so hopeless. You see what other teams in the league are doing with no-name backs and you realize that the Jets offense is even more aimless than it looks. 

Agreed.  Biggest issue to me with the offense is the rookie QB is struggling.  Teams can load the box and Zach has not shown he can make them pay consistently.  We may not have a #1, but Cole, Davis, Crowder are solid proven NFL WRs and Moore, Berrios and Mims are young guys who can contribute.  Yes there have been some drops, but the WRs should be better over the rest of the sseason.  Despite the fact that everyone loves to trash the OL, they have been much better pass blocking for Zach the last two games.  Run blocking has not been great, but again, its tough running into loaded boxes. 

Zach has 5 games NFL experience.  He can get better.  If he figures it out (and the CS does too) the offense can get better in the second half of the season.  If he doesn't we are screwed for a few more years.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, JETSY14 said:

I'm not staying there are no rookie GMs that got it. The odds are stacked against that happening.  You need experience. 

Do you think people with experience as only a McDonald's manager apply for GM jobs? GM candidates work in lower level executive positions before getting GM jobs. While Joe Douglas didn't have GM experience before being hired by the Jets, he worked for two Super Bowl winning franchises.

Joe Douglas now has experience with being a GM, so we now have an experienced GM.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Lith said:

Agreed.  Biggest issue to me with the offense is the rookie QB is struggling.  Teams can load the box and Zach has not shown he can make them pay consistently.  We may not have a #1, but Cole, Davis, Crowder are solid proven NFL WRs and Moore, Berrios and Mims are young guys who can contribute.  Yes there have been some drops, but the WRs should be better over the rest of the sseason.  Despite the fact that everyone loves to trash the OL, they have been much better pass blocking for Zach the last two games.  Run blocking has not been great, but again, its tough running into loaded boxes. 

Zach has 5 games NFL experience.  He can get better.  If he figures it out (and the CS does too) the offense can get better in the second half of the season.  If he doesn't we are screwed for a few more years.

The caveat to all of this is that I think the Pats and Bears—despite having even worse skill position groups—are going to end up performing better on offense in a few weeks than the Jets will, despite the Jets having a months-long head start in building around Wilson. And that’s going to be an indictment of the CS

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

6 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Perfect example to my point.   I'm diametrically opposed to your view.   I think JD is already a failure and--like other first time Jet GMs--should never have been hired.  I'd be happy if ownership fired him, but don't think that will happen until another losing season next year.

I am anatomically, diatonically, catastrophically, pedantically, metaphorically, gravimetrically  and cholinergically opposed to thinking that JD is a failure. (Yes, I know that none of these words make any sense in this context)

The six year deal is the first clue as to why this team has been stripped to the bare bones. He told Christopher Johnson that he was taking the job with the understanding that he is going to tear it down and rebuild it, and that he needs a commitment to the plan. When Maye and Crowder get traded, the last of the old guard will be gone. Don't be surprised if CJ Mosely is traded too. I'm not expecting it, but I wouldn't be surprised, even though it would create tons of dead cap space. 

My patience with JD ends after game 17. You cannot deny that he has positioned himself to have a monster off-season with the available cap space, and draft capital. He will no longer have a raw coaching staff, and will have a QB with a year of growing into his britches. I don't know why anyone was expecting anything other than what we have this year. It was always going to be a developmental season. I don't know how anyone would think that this was the best JD could do. He could have easily Mike Maccagnaned the roster with marginally better players at a much higher cost. He also could have Mike Maccagnaned the roster by giving enormous contracts to downgrades like Trumaine Johnson, and Le'Veon Bell. I'll live through another 3 win season with developing rookies over 4 wins and wasted cap space. 

 

 

[Jet Nut]

53 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Thank you for comparing the draft to the OTB. This is why I call draft picks lottery tickets. 

It's also the reason this rebuild this way ISNT WORKING

Thanks for missing the point entirely

[Wit]

37 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The caveat to all of this is that I think the Pats and Bears—despite having even worse skill position groups—are going to end up performing better on offense in a few weeks than the Jets will, despite the Jets having a months-long head start in building around Wilson. And that’s going to be an indictment of the CS

Except the coaching staff and everyone around then has had many many more years to get everyone else on board. 
 

Bears and Pats have vastly superior defenses as well so the QB doesn’t need to play catch up hero ball, and it covers up rookie mistakes. In the case of the pats they have Mac on a tight leash as well, and if he throws deep it’s calculated by McDaniels. There is no “off platform” play making allowed. 
 

Bears also have a stud in Allen Robinson and better RBs. 

[doitny]

43 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Never hire your friends, as they say. A big tell for how Saleh is going to do long-term is what he does with his OC this off-season, assuming the offense stays bad-to-middling. This team will have literally zero time to **** around with Wilson’s development by that point, and they’re going to have to triage the offensive staff with proven coaches before Wilson’s career dies on the vine. If Saleh is resistant to firing LaFleur, you have to fire Saleh too.

but who you going to get to replace him?

all these guys are recycled. they get fired from one place and get hired to the next. and we know how this fan base feels about a new OC. 

whoever it is will have a list of complaints from his old fanbase that will sound alot like ours with LaFluer.

we might just have to ride with him for one more year. not so much cause we want to but that there is nobody thats an improvement. might as well give him one more year to see if he can find his way

 

[munchmemory]

12 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I am anatomically, diatonically, catastrophically, pedantically, metaphorically, gravimetrically  and cholinergically opposed to thinking that JD is a failure. (Yes, I know that none of these words make any sense in this context)

The six year deal is the first clue as to why this team has been stripped to the bare bones. He told Christopher Johnson that he was taking the job with the understanding that he is going to tear it down and rebuild it, and that he needs a commitment to the plan. When Maye and Crowder get traded, the last of the old guard will be gone. Don't be surprised if CJ Mosely is traded too. I'm not expecting it, but I wouldn't be surprised, even though it would create tons of dead cap space. 

My patience with JD ends after game 17. You cannot deny that he has positioned himself to have a monster off-season with the available cap space, and draft capital. He will no longer have a raw coaching staff, and will have a QB with a year of growing into his britches. I don't know why anyone was expecting anything other than what we have this year. It was always going to be a developmental season. I don't know how anyone would think that this was the best JD could do. He could have easily Mike Maccagnaned the roster with marginally better players at a much higher cost. He also could have Mike Maccagnaned the roster by giving enormous contracts to downgrades like Trumaine Johnson, and Le'Veon Bell. I'll live through another 3 win season with developing rookies over 4 wins and wasted cap space. 

 

 

Good post.  But, once again, minds will never be changed when it comes to JD.  Specifically, mine.

I don't accept all the excuses related to first year HC/OC/QB, etc.   Those are his decisions.  He was able to hire a seasoned HC/OC as well as adding veteran players to the roster.  Instead, JD did the opposite.   Now, he's got to live with it.  

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, doitny said:

might as well give him one more year to see if he can find his way

What has he done to earn one more game check, much less one more year? They’ve already burned one year of Zach Wilson’s life (and rookie contract) on LaFleur’s career development. You cannot risk a second.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

4 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Good post.  But, once again, minds will never be changed when it comes to JD.  Specifically, mine.

I don't accept all the excuses related to first year HC/OC/QB, etc.   Those are his decisions.  He was able to hire a seasoned HC/OC as well as adding veteran players to the roster.  Instead, JD did the opposite.   Now, he's got to live with it.  

That's my point. He didn't hire a seasoned HC/OC and didn't add veteran players, because more of the same gets you more of the same. This was a calculated risk that is high risk, but also has the possibility of a high reward. There is not a snowball's chance in hell that Woody would have signed off on this if he wasn't on board with the slow burn. The fact that Woody has been mostly invisible lately is a separate issue, but also a good sign of things to come. 

[doitny]

54 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Perfect example to my point.   I'm diametrically opposed to your view.   I think JD is already a failure and--like other first time Jet GMs--should never have been hired.  I'd be happy if ownership fired him, but don't think that will happen until another losing season next year.

i guess we agree to disagree. 

i don't see how you can say that about JD when his 1st draft class hasn't even played a year and a half and his 2nd only 5 games.

he signs Lawson and Joyner who are out all season for injury. Jarred Davis still hasn't played for the same reason. 

he signs Davis and Cole and drafts Moore to give his new QB all the talent he could. its not like hes sitting on the money.

everybody kills his OL and now Fant looks really good. and AVT and Mosses are killing it. but since the Center and RG aren't that good makes him a bad GM? you need to see how much this line has improved since game 1.

he finds guys like JFM, Huff and Quinnen Williams on PS. 

he has made mistakes just like every other GM but to say he is a failure without giving this team at least till the end of the year doesn't make sense.

it just might be a coaching problem especially after that BS of 24 scripted plays to start out the game. 

 

[Jetscode1]

Personally, I think JD should stay here until Woody sells the team or the Jets win the Super Bowl.  The more drafts he gets the better he drafts.  Also, for those in the Fire JD camp, what did you expect this season?  This is the youngest team in the league and expecting more than a handful of wins was always a poor bet.    

[Claymation]

But, you see, that's out biggest advantage.
By being the one NFL team that doesn't have to care about its reputation, we can fish in the very large sea of the desperate and the flawed GM candidates.  Bring 'em in, give 'em a 2 year mandate, out the door they go if they don't get it done.  With all the failure we've had with prime GM candidates, I'd rather go after someone that no one believes in and has something to prove.
Browns went from a joke to a legit playoff team by having 3 GM's and 4 HC's in 6 years.  They made quick decisions, they sized them up just as quickly as they would a player, and moved on if they weren't cutting it.  
SAR I

Paul Depodesta is the Chief Strategy officer and the architect of the Cleveland Browns turnaround. He was hired in 2016, he tore down the franchise and he finally got to hire a coach (Stefanski) and GM (Berry)he could work with.

[doitny]

28 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What has he done to earn one more game check, much less one more year? They’ve already burned one year of Zach Wilson’s life (and rookie contract) on LaFleur’s career development. You cannot risk a second.

again i ask, who are you replacing him with?

Marty Mornhigweg ? Norv Turner? guys who have been fired a number of times.

how about Joe Brady. i hear the fans want him gone in Carolina. 

point is we could give LaFluer one more year to see if he could be a good OC or hire a guy who already failed at being one. 

[Wit]

8 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Paul Depodesta is the Chief Strategy officer and the architect of the Cleveland Browns turnaround. He was hired in 2016, he tore down the franchise and he finally got to hire a coach (Stefanski) and GM (Berry)he could work with.

And chances are they need a new QB and they still aren’t imploding. They built that team to sustain some major hits. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Running back and tight end right now are legit awful. Maybe Carter gets good, but he's not going to be that good. There are no exciting players on the roster. 

I tend to think the WR's are quite strong they're just being led by a wet behind his ears OC and the worst QB in the NFL.