***OFFICIAL*** FIRE JOE DOUGLAS THREAD

[SackExchangeNYJ]

53 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Joe's job is to win championships.  He's taking the proper, patient approach to do that.  

Getting WC's and losing in the first round has been the Jets strategy for 30 years.  Keeping people, seemingly, like you happy.....

I would like to win a championship and willing to wait out the proper rebuild.

This!

I would rather the team be championship contenders in 3 years than wild card contenders now.

[BettyBoop]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Yeah, yeah, I get the Pollyanna version of the future that the Jets are selling.  Yeah, yeah, I get that Douglas, Saleh, LaFleur, and Wilson are straight out of central casting and are the perfect actors placed in a great screenplay designed to get maximum affection from an adoring fanbase.

But, forgive me, I've heard this all before.  When they sold me on Herman Edwards as a brilliant defensive mind.  Like when they sold me on Eric Mangini as the second coming of Belichick.  Like when they sold me on Ryan/Idzik.  Like when they sold me on Bowles/Maccagnan.

The truth is, we hired Joe Douglas because he was the only guy to take the job and only did so after we begged him and begged him and overpaid him to come here.  A Philadelphia Eagles scout.  Such credibility.  And he's turned us into an expansion team.  And you like it because you're supposed to.  Until the day comes that you wake up and realize that the signs are all there, that it's another con job.  Because Douglas can't pick players.  They're either always hurt or they flat out can't play up to expectations.  I hope I'm wrong, but right now Joe Douglas looks like a great negotiator and a great poker player but he's no painter.  And we need a painter.

SAR I

 

[freestater]

Saleh drives a Cadillac, a great American car with class, so he's safe.

Douglas, not sure...he might drive some crappy eurotrash beamer or something. He's on the bubble. 

[varjet]

Just now, Sammybighead said:

SAR is on fire here, I'll take that as he really wants JD gone.

One thing I want to point out regarding JD's first draft. JD has stated, OVER AND OVER, his objective is always to work with the coaching staff and take advice from everyone in the building on whom to draft.

We don't know how much of Gase's influence was part of the 2020 draft. Certainly some of the guys they drafted are not necessarily a scheme fit for this coaching staff (i.e. Mims, perine).

I think there is something to be said about a synergy of the coaching staff/GM being all on the same page. I think we have that now. You'd be crazy to think that was the case in 2020.

But notwithstanding my prior post, flipping this the other way, even though Morgan and Zuniga were cut and Davis is on IR, it does feel to me that JD is holding onto his draft picks/signings too long.  

But I don't know what I am talking about.  

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

So the only person who wants JD fired is Sar 1? 

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, freestater said:

Saleh drives a Cadillac, a great American car with class, so he's safe.

Douglas, not sure...he might drive some crappy eurotrash beamer or something. He's on the bubble. 

They both have Mac beat

 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

Have you ever seen a gut renovation done in a house? Do you walk in and complain about the exposed electrical and plumbing, or you do imagine what the end result will look like? 

The previous contractor left the house in shambles. He focused too much on the second floor bathroom, but neglected the foundation. 

The first two years for Joe Douglas has been gutting the house down to the bare wall. At this point in the rebuild, JD shored up the foundation, and redid the wiring and plumbing. The drywall is up but needs to be taped and painted. The cabinets are up, but the hinges need to be adjusted, and the handles need to be installed. The house still needs tons of work, but it's starting to look like a home again. 

Has JD been flawless? No. Far from it. I am not going to twist myself into a pretzel trying to justify the Zuniga, Davis, Perrine, Morgan, and Clark picks. Two are already busts. Two are trending to be busts, and another could be a bust. Perrine isn't a lost cause, and it's yet to be seen if he ends up being anything more than a JAG. Even Mims is making people nervous. His failure to secure a kicker is staggering. I am not putting in my order for Ammendola's Canton bust just yet. If Ammendola develops into a league average kicker or better, JD will be vindicated. 

The countdown clock has started to tick. He asked for a six year contract because he has the long game in mind. This will be the last year that he gets a pass if the team does not compete for a division title or wild card birth. His 2021 draft class will be pivotal in his success or lack thereof. I feel a lot better about the 2021 draft class than I did with the 2020 at the time of the draft. 

I hope to look back at this in ten years with JD still going strong with his continued success. 

[SAR I]

53 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I am not blaming Joe Douglas for the failures of Mike Maccagnan. 

No need to.  Douglas has enough failures of his own.

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Mike Maccagnan has been gone for 3 years.

He was fired in May of 2019.

Want to show your math work 

[SAR I]

28 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

So the only person who wants JD fired is Sar 1? 

I don't want him fired, I just want Jets fans to stop throwing roses at his feet.

The time for Joe Douglas accountability is now.  If we open 0-4, airplanes better fly, billboards better go up.

SAR I

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

35 minutes ago, SAR I said:

No need to.  Douglas has enough failures of his own.

SAR I

Like I said. I am not blaming Joe Douglas for trying to fill all of the holes that Maccagnan left. With so many holes to fill, JD is bound to make a bad move here or there. Mike Maccagnan did nothing right.

[Grandy]

14 hours ago, SAR I said:

And he inherited a rebuild-in-progress where Mike Maccagnan had already started gutting the roster and stockpiling draft capital per the orders of Christopher Johnson in 2017.

I do not remember any stockpiled draft capital from our Macc "rebuild". Just gutting the roster, and eventually trading away valuable draft capital for Darnold. We actually walked out with less draft resources than we would have by default because he traded so much to get to #3. 

The Jets from the Macc period never did anything to symbolize actual rebuilding other than sucking azz. There was no methodical draft building like now. The Macc cycle was: Suck-> Throw gross amounts of money at undeserving FA's -> Draft poorly with no negotiation or trades to possibly gain capital to help such a bad team -> Still suck. 

I know it gets memed to death, but what we're doing right now is an actual rebuild. It was said that in the past we were as well, but everything points to it being just a re-tooling as opposed to what we have going now because y'know there's actual draft investment.

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

I don't want him fired, I just want Jets fans to stop throwing roses at his feet.

The time for Joe Douglas accountability is now.  If we open 0-4, airplanes better fly, billboards better go up.

SAR I

As opposed to last year? When you did not make accountability an actionable offense by a supposed leader of a team?

[kevinc855]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Joe's job is to win championships.  He's taking the proper, patient approach to do that.  

Getting WC's and losing in the first round has been the Jets strategy for 30 years.  Keeping people, seemingly, like you happy.....

I would like to win a championship and willing to wait out the proper rebuild.

I’m intrigued by your theory that teams don’t progressively get better rather they will be 8-9 one year then win the super bowl? Getting a “wild card” spot is noting to sneeze at, it’s the playoffs. So is the new excuse we don’t need to make the playoffs unless we go all the way? Odd take 

[JoJoTownsell1]

20 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

I’m intrigued by your theory that teams don’t progressively better rather they will be 8-9 one year then win the super bowl? Getting a “wild card” spot is noting to sneeze at, it’s the playoffs. So is the new excuse we don’t need to make the playoffs unless we go all the way? Odd take 

So if your theory is that Joe's job is to make the playoffs (and not to build a SB winning team) then why not trade Zach Wilson for Derek Carr who should be better than Wilson this year? Odd take......

[FidelioJet]

17 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

I’m intrigued by your theory that teams don’t progressively get better rather they will be 8-9 one year then win the super bowl? Getting a “wild card” spot is noting to sneeze at, it’s the playoffs. So is the new excuse we don’t need to make the playoffs unless we go all the way? Odd take 

Not teams in such as bad a shape as the Jets.

This is basically the first year of the rebuild (the past two were a tearing apart and unraveling of the mess Mac left this team in)

So, I do expect them to better than 2 wins this year and I expect be a playoff contender next year - 12 wins the year after. 
 

Now, to your point. - Yes, JD could have taken the past two years and bought a bunch a high priced free agents, brought in a Nick Foles type to start and maybe win 9-10 games this year, maybe even sneak in with a WC and best case scenario win a road playoff game. 
But next next year we’re rebuilding all over again. Cap hell, no long term QB solution and a bunch of aging 3rd contract players.  It’s sn unending cycle the Jets have played out for the past 30 years.  
 

The first option might take longer to be competitive but it’s far and away the better long term strategy. 

Honestly, are you that obtuse to not see the difference?

[kmnj]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Joe's job is to win championships.  He's taking the proper, patient approach to do that.  

Getting WC's and losing in the first round has been the Jets strategy for 30 years.  Keeping people, seemingly, like you happy.....

I would like to win a championship and willing to wait out the proper rebuild.

Parecells took a 1-15 team to the AFC championship that is NOT losing in the first round and really we were a couple bad turnovers from probably going and winning the superbowl-he also did not leave the cupboard bare when he left-he left us with abrahama ellis pennington and coles who was a GREAT find -he executed the rebuild to perfection . My fault with Parcells is he maybe cost us Peyton but none the less he got us closer than anybody and I have 40 years of going to games under my belt 

 

I would love for Joe to be the greatest ever and win us a ring but I also believe in accountability and actual performance-do I think a ring this year is reasonable no I dont but I also dont think it is unreasonable to have a team compete and win 5-7 games-another two win season would not be improvement. I am okay with baby steps of improvement but so far the roster got worse and our performance worse under his watch. 

 

 

[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, Biggs said:

Who's saying he should get fired?  

LOTS are starting to question

The NFL is a competition at the management level.  Joe D and Saleh won't be judged in a vacuum.  They will be judged on their record.  Joe D with 1 draft and a partial FA period is 2 and 14.  He drafted a new QB.  Zach could be great but if he isn't as good as Allen, Tua and Jones we might still be the worst team in our division in 5 years.

We shall see. But he should get at least three years with Zach. 

Nobody is judging these guys in a vacuum.  Everyone knows the Jets sucked when Douglas took over.   So far he's dumped a couple of solid starters, one who's an all pro for draft capital.  If he improves the team more than other NFL GM's improve their teams and we move up in the win total and compete for playoffs he gets another contract.  If were a 4 win type of team for another 2 years it might be time to dump him.  

Nobody wins Super Bowls in the NFL with an all-pro safety.  It was a great deal, and people should get over it.

Pittsburgh has a HOF QB and HC.  The reality is the Steelers have dissapointed the last 4 years.  If the Browns, Bengals and Ravens move ahead of them they will make changes.

The Steelers have been to the playoffs thirteen times since 2000, been to the Super Bowl three times, and lost once.  In the past four years, they have been to the playoffs twice, with their star QB out one of them.  The only reason they might 'disappoint' is they are so successful year in and out.  I hope the Jets can be that disappointing over a four-year span.

 

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Like I said. I am not blaming Joe Douglas for trying to fill all of the holes that Maccagnan left. With so many holes to fill, JD is bound to make a bad move here or there. Mike Maccagnan did nothing right.

Maccagnan started the rebuild in 2017 and cut deeply in 2018 too.  The concept of "blow it up to the foundation" wasn't invented by Joe Douglas, his predecessor was already doing just that.

Nick Mangold, Nick Folk, Darrelle Revis, David Harris, Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker, Muhammed Wilkerson, there were others, big salaries, big names, he was getting cheap and stockpiling assets in 2017, quoted as saying "get younger and build through the draft".  We fired him.  Okay.  We brought in Douglas.  Okay. 

The GM position of the NYJ, no matter who held the title, has been rebuilding this thing using the identical strategy as outlined by ownership for 5 years now.  It's time to start winning.

SAR I

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

I don't want him fired, I just want Jets fans to stop throwing roses at his feet.

The time for Joe Douglas accountability is now.  If we open 0-4, airplanes better fly, billboards better go up.

SAR I

Just to help you finish the sentence: And the Jets will be lucky if they can get a high-school GM to come and work for them because everyone would know you get two years with the Jets to fix things or you are fired, which is a complete absurdity.

 

[SAR I]

40 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is basically the first year of the rebuild

Here we go again.

THIS IS YEAR 5 OF THE REBUILD

It's just that the second guy, brought in to make things better than under the first guy, f-cked it up worse.  

Maccagnan gutted the roster but replenished it better than Douglas has going by 2020 draft and FA results.  Might Douglas get it right in 2021?  He'd better.  Because with his low player personnel success rate it'll be 20 years before half our roster is talented.

SAR I

[kmnj]

6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Here we go again.

THIS IS YEAR 5 OF THE REBUILD

It's just that the second guy, brought in to make things better than under the first guy, f-cked it up worse.  

Maccagnan gutted the roster but replenished it better than Douglas has going by 2020 draft and FA results.  Might Douglas get it right in 2021?  He'd better.  Because with his low player personnel success rate it'll be 20 years before half our roster is talented.

SAR I

we keep hearing you have to wait to judge his first draft-how many have been cut already and it is just one year out and how many are truly productive players-maybe becton is all we walk away with his first draft

I hope he killed it this past draft but as you and I both say at some point you need to win and more importantly be competitve and show improvement. The blind allegiance to joe is comical and sad-the same folks ate up Mac and LOVED the idea we got Izadick who some how got credit for the hawks even though he was not their gm

[SAR I]

49 minutes ago, kmnj said:

I would love for Joe to be the greatest ever and win us a ring but I also believe in accountability and actual performance-do I think a ring this year is reasonable no I dont but I also dont think it is unreasonable to have a team compete and win 5-7 games-another two win season would not be improvement. I am okay with baby steps of improvement but so far the roster got worse and our performance worse under his watch. 

Last year's excuses for a 2-win season:

• Awful head coach
• Awful OC/DC
• Awful quarterback
• No playmakers on O
• Gutted roster
• Tough schedule

Every reason for the 2-win catastrophe has been answered or improved upon this season.  There is no excuse to get anything less than 8 wins in 2021.  The New York Jets Rebuild is in Year 5.  Doesn't matter that the FO has had some turnover, the strategy and the cadence has not wavered.  It's time to win games.

SAR I

[chirorob]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

But notwithstanding my prior post, flipping this the other way, even though Morgan and Zuniga were cut and Davis is on IR, it does feel to me that JD is holding onto his draft picks/signings too long.  

But I don't know what I am talking about.  

The only draft picks he had were from 2020, so the longest he has held on to them is 1 season and 1 extra preseason.

[kmnj]

I am a patient guy -got 40 years in with the jets although I just bailed on my paid off psls (that nobobdy wanted for free) but the team should show better play on the field and after next year with all of the capital if Joe does not get this team to the playoffs within 2 more years he is not the guy like the others before him

[kmnj]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Last year's excuses for a 2-win season:

• Awful head coach
• Awful OC/DC
• Awful quarterback
• No playmakers on O
• Gutted roster
• Tough schedule

Every reason for the 2-win catastrophe has been answered or improved upon this season.  There is no excuse to get anything less than 8 wins in 2021.  The New York Jets Rebuild is in Year 5.  Doesn't matter that the FO has had some turnover, the strategy and the cadence has not wavered.  It's time to win games.

SAR I

the odd dynamic is folks keep saying how great he is doing but then say that we should have low expecations which I dont understand. If he nailed both drafts (I think the first one sucked) and brought in good players we should be a much better team on the field. I would  be happy with 6 wins which really is a low bar but 2-4 wins would be beyond awful-adam gase who sucked got us 8 wins two years ago with worse set up

[SAR I]

15 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Just to help you finish the sentence: And the Jets will be lucky if they can get a high-school GM to come and work for them because everyone would know you get two years with the Jets to fix things or you are fired, which is a complete absurdity.

 

We're already well past that point.  Anyone who comes here is overpaid and over-valued.  Douglas was a scout.  Saleh a coordinator.  LaFleur very junior.  The Jets are forced to take big chances on people that the NFL is meh on because it's the only way we can get anyone to come here.

So it's time to accept that that's who we are, the team no one wants to coach or run the FO for.  And there is something liberating about that.  Because we can continue to be that 2-year-prove-it franchise and just keep cycling HC's and GM's in and out of here until the blind squirrel gets it right.

SAR I

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, kmnj said:

we keep hearing you have to wait to judge his first draft-how many have been cut already and it is just one year out and how many are truly productive players-maybe becton is all we walk away with his first draft

Exactly.  2020 is going down as one of the worst draft/FA periods in team history.  And his supporters are thinking that even if he blew 2021 in the same way he deserves another chance?  Another 3 years of this?

7 minutes ago, kmnj said:

I hope he killed it this past draft but as you and I both say at some point you need to win and more importantly be competitve and show improvement. The blind allegiance to joe is comical and sad-the same folks ate up Mac and LOVED the idea we got Izadick who some how got credit for the hawks even though he was not their gm

And what's super exciting is that the meek scout from failing Philadelphia who was brought here by Adam Gase to shut up and follow orders has been given the keys to the kingdom.  Be afraid.  Be very afraid.

SAR I

[kevinc855]

Bottom line through all this is we have to start winning. 
 

2 things are not debatable. We have been terrible before Joe, and under Joe.

We disagree on how many years under Joe it takes to start winning. 
 

 

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

This!

I would rather the team be championship contenders in 3 years than wild card contenders now.

Understand that the only difference between the Maccagnan strategy and the Douglas strategy of "get younger, be patient" is that Maccagnan spent his cap money on pricey famous free agents who sucked and Douglas is spending the same cap money on cheap nobody free agents who suck.

They both spent the same free agent money.  They both blew it equally.  Maccagnan would blow it on 3 expensive busts, Douglas on 6 inexpensive busts, we wind up in the same exact place.  Stop saying Douglas is 'smart' with the FA money.  He's not.  Because he's not picking the right scrubs.  His entire strategy seems to be to cast out a wide net and pray he finds a diamond in the rough.  And he doesn't.

It's time to call it-  Joe Douglas is not good at unearthing undrafted/castaway gems.  And he's not good at finding value in the late rounds of the draft either.  In fact, he's barely good at picking can't-miss guys at the top of every draft.  But you love him.  No one knows why.

SAR I

[SAR I]

12 minutes ago, kmnj said:

the odd dynamic is folks keep saying how great he is doing but then say that we should have low expecations which I dont understand. If he nailed both drafts (I think the first one sucked) and brought in good players we should be a much better team on the field. I would  be happy with 6 wins which really is a low bar but 2-4 wins would be beyond awful-adam gase who sucked got us 8 wins two years ago with worse set up

This this this this this this.  Perfectly stated.

Required reading for the "we need the head coach to report to the GM" crowd which is another odd fan dynamic.

SAR I

[CSNY]

7 minutes ago, SAR I said:

And what's super exciting is that the meek scout from failing Philadelphia who was brought here by Adam Gase to shut up and follow orders has been given the keys to the kingdom.  Be afraid.  Be very afraid.

SAR I

Figured this was going to happen as often happens with SAR1 is that all roads lead back to the coach of “  where football is going”  Adam Gase ??

[Claymation]

4 minutes ago, kmnj said:

the odd dynamic is folks keep saying how great he is doing but then say that we should have low expecations which I dont understand. If he nailed both drafts (I think the first one sucked) and brought in good players we should be a much better team on the field. I would  be happy with 6 wins which really is a low bar but 2-4 wins would be beyond awful

If Zach looks like a legitimate QB with the potential of being a Top 10 QB, Do you really care what the record is this year?

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, CSNY said:

Figured this was going to happen as often happens with SAR1 is that all roads lead back to the coach of “  where football is going”  Adam Gase ??

Hey @CSNY  Weird Fan Dynamic #3:

They hate Adam Gase and say definitively that he was the worst inside influencer in team history yet they suck on the golden teat of his hand-picked GM, lackey Joe Douglas.

SAR I

[CSNY]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Hey @CSNY  Weird Fan Dynamic #3:

They hate Adam Gase and say definitively that he was the worst inside influencer in team history yet they suck on the golden teat of his hand-picked GM, lackey Joe Douglas.

SAR I

So let’s hope he is a better evaluator of GMs than he was a football coach cause he was horrible as a coach